Is Princess having a Brand/Identity crisis - your thoughts?

[BlerkOne]

22 minutes ago, Globaler said:

Did you mean did some customers mature INTO the Princess market?

That would be Carnival ex-pats and I believe they are pleased, even if the sidewalks roll up at 9pm.

[Kay S]

51 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

It's relative. Did Princess change or did some passengers mature (cough) out of the Princess market?

Yes and yes.  I have "matured" on to Oceania (where I pay the nickels and dimes up front.)

[Boku]

21 hours ago, SCX22 said:

 

My point is many lack the knowledge and confidence for the functions of the Internet, and technology in general, keeps many older folks from using it to it's fullest potential.  Just look at these boards and how some can't even distinguish INTRAnet from INTERnet.  This probably isn't you because your are defending it, but it's a lot of older folks.  Younger generations were brought up with the Internet and they know how to use it from a young age, albeit not always for good.

It was the baby boomers that created the internet.

[Kay S]

13 minutes ago, Boku said:

It was the baby boomers that created the internet.

You'd think these baby geniuses would know that.  

[memoak]

19 minutes ago, Kay S said:

Yes and yes.  I have "matured" on to Oceania (where I pay the nickels and dimes up front.)

Isn’t that more like quarters and dollars with Oceania ?

[vjmatty]

57 minutes ago, TRLD said:

So do other lines. Does not change where CCL positions and considers them. Read their 10k.

 

Just as the NA focused line have ships in Europe and Asia, those lines are still NA focused.

 

In either case they accept passengers from any area, but their targeted markets is clear.

 

Also does not change how and where they market.  The majority of their marketing focus and spend is UK.

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, especially if you won’t even acknowledge that the line is at least equally represented in both markets and is not the same UK base as P&O. I don’t know when your last Cunard sailing was, but as a part time TA who has Commodore status selling both Cunard and Princess, I can assure you that Cunard is very NA based and not the same category as P&O. Onboard currency, even in EU sailings, is in US dollars, not sterling. I don’t know what could make it more clear than that. If you wish to limit your adult cruising to two lines instead of three based on your perceptions, I won’t disabuse you of that belief 🤷🏻‍♀️

[Itchy&Scratchy]

5 hours ago, tinks29 said:

I think they are trying to be the brand that works for multigenerational cruises, which is what we did. Overall, it works for that but because they are not focused there are things each generation doesn't like. For the kids, they missed having the waterslides, go karts, theme park on the deck and the shows were geared for an older crowd. The seniors in our group were not fans of the app, the medallion to get in the room and the food they said wasn't what they remembered on Princess or at the level of some other cruise lines. 

we have just done a multigenerational cruise as well, and I must say - we felt the exact opposite. Our 13 yo loves Princess (has loved it since his very first Princess cruise at 4) and doesn't care about the youth activities, my parents loved using the medallion and the app, and we love everything about Princess.

[Retired-N-Happy]

1 hour ago, BlerkOne said:

It's relative. Did Princess change or did some passengers mature (cough) out of the Princess market?

 

44 minutes ago, Kay S said:

Yes and yes.  I have "matured" on to Oceania (where I pay the nickels and dimes up front.)

I inferred that the maturation process out of the Princess market would be because the cruiser passed away, not changing lines.

[BlerkOne]

25 minutes ago, memoak said:

Isn’t that more like quarters and dollars with Oceania ?

I'm pretty sure Oceania has made cutbacks and people complain about anything or nothing. Those who switch now will never know how good it was in the good old days.

[kywildcatfanone]

On 7/15/2024 at 10:34 AM, Globaler said:

The Carnival Corporation owns Carnival (family/kids), Holland America (older cruisers), Seabourn (luxury), Costa (budget), Aida and P&O (not sure) and then Princess (middle age, semi upscale, value). Given this line up; why is the Carnival Corporation messing with Princess by trying to appeal to everyone? 
 These are my thoughts what do you think?

Yes.  Trying to make Princess' newest ships more like Carnival/Royal seems like a bad idea to me.  They already have lines for that.

[BlerkOne]

2 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

 

I inferred that the maturation process out of the Princess market would be because the cruiser passed away, not changing lines.

I meant it as those who celebrated many anniversaries of their birth, but are still kicking.

[TRLD]

48 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

I guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree, especially if you won’t even acknowledge that the line is at least equally represented in both markets and is not the same UK base as P&O. I don’t know when your last Cunard sailing was, but as a part time TA who has Commodore status selling both Cunard and Princess, I can assure you that Cunard is very NA based and not the same category as P&O. Onboard currency, even in EU sailings, is in US dollars, not sterling. I don’t know what could make it more clear than that. If you wish to limit your adult cruising to two lines instead of three based on your perceptions, I won’t disabuse you of that belief 🤷🏻‍♀️

It is clearly not P&O. The last time I sailed on P&O I was probably the only American on it. Just as both Princess and HAL are NA focused lines, Princess is not HAL.

 

The fact that Cunard is not the same as P&O and has broader international appeal, does not make it a NA focused line. If it was US focused the CCL would list it in its North American focused lines with Carnival, Princess and HAL, instead listing it with Costa, Aida and P&O UK in the Europran focused lines.

 

Suggest you contact them and convince them of its focus 

 

Just because it sells cruises in US does not make it a US focused line. Neither does the fact that Princess sells cruises in  the UK make it a UK  focused line.

 

 

Edited July 17 by TRLD

[Retired-N-Happy]

19 minutes ago, kywildcatfanone said:

Yes.  Trying to make Princess' newest ships more like Carnival/Royal seems like a bad idea to me.  They already have lines for that.

All of the ships in each line are not identical.  There are major differences between the older ships in the Carnival fleet at 70 K tons versus the 180k tons of the Excel Class.  The Coral Princess is about half the size of the new Sun. 

Adding Park 19 to the Sphere Class ships is not turning those ships into what Carnival, RCI or NCL offer.  It's having two ships in the fleet that might appeal to multigenerational cruisers.  

Lines need to adapt.  If they stay stagnant they lose in the long run.

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, Kay S said:

Yes and yes.  I have "matured" on to Oceania (where I pay the nickels and dimes up front.)

Good luck on Oceania. We did a 22 day on the line recently and almost left the ship in Hawaii, instead of doing the last 6 days back to LA. The only time on any line that we even thought about leaving early.

 

We found Oceania to be more like ground hog day at sea. Everyday the same as the day before. Schedule exactly the same. Music overly curated and mostly background to tea and happy hour.

[Treasure Hunter]

On 7/15/2024 at 12:18 PM, memoak said:

That is why there are different cruise lines. Those who want climbing walls, go car tracks, water parks etc go with lines like RCL. Those who love Disney World go on Disney cruises. Those of us who like a more sedate and relaxed atmosphere go wit Princess. Each to their own

You missed my point. Princess is changing and moving away from a sedate and relaxed atmosphere. Princess wants more young families ( the Sun). Just look at the commercials on YouTube. Of course there is a variety of lines. We all know that. I’m afraid as the old ships retire our beloved Princess will be going with them. 

[TRLD]

20 minutes ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

All of the ships in each line are not identical.  There are major differences between the older ships in the Carnival fleet at 70 K tons versus the 180k tons of the Excel Class.  The Coral Princess is about half the size of the new Sun. 

Adding Park 19 to the Sphere Class ships is not turning those ships into what Carnival, RCI or NCL offer.  It's having two ships in the fleet that might appeal to multigenerational cruisers.  

Lines need to adapt.  If they stay stagnant they lose in the long run.

More than the water features, the move towards a class system, including the Sanctuary is likely to be a more impactful change.

 

I suspect if the class system features work out on the Sun. I would expect them to extend those changes to the Royal class ships with on of the mid ship dinning rooms converted for the signature class cabins, a currently public area converted to a signature lounge and the Sanctuary reserved for that class. Similar to how Celebrity changed their ships when they made similar changes.

[MacMadame]

 

23 hours ago, TRLD said:

Another good way for a company to go bankrupt is to try and be everything to everybody. 

The other way is to listen to customers and give them exactly what they ask. Customers know their problems and pain points but they don't necessarily know all the possible solutions. 

 

7 hours ago, Globaler said:

I like those features also - but it appears when those ships wear out they won’t be replaced with the same. 

They will be replaced with what makes sense at that time. So not necessarily with mega ships that are floating amusement parks. It will depend on what cruise lines think the market will want by the time the ship is finished. 

 

29 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Just because it sells cruises in US does not make it a US focused line. Neither does the fact that Princess sells cruises in  the UK make it a UK  focused line.

Do they have kettles in all the staterooms without being asked? Then it's a UK-focused line. 😉

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I always smile at the cheerleaders on the Cunard board who assert that Cunard provides a quintessential British experience and appear to completely miss the irony associated with paying for that in US$.  So far as I can tell from my 5 cruises on Cunard, the ship board culture etc is primarily focused on playing up to the fantasies of those who believe that Downton Abbey is a documentary programme showing how the middle classes live in contemporary Britain.  In reality, the ships are about as British as Disney World.   But, good luck to Cunard because this marketing strategy clearly works to a certain extent because they are persuading passengers to pay about 50% more than on their other mainstream lines for pretty much the same experience, but with more restrictive dress regs and no reasonably priced drinks, wifi and service charge packages a la Princess.  

Never said that it provided the quintessential British experience. Only that CCL considers it to be a UK focused line. That it has features not found in any NA focused line owned by any company. All NA focused lines got rid of their dress codes years ago and are much less formal. A feature that one seldom finds anywhere in the US today, but I have encountered in several UK establishments even this year.

 

Though CCL does list it as providing the refined British experience. Whatever that bit of marketing speak means.

 

The key point is that the largest segment of its customer base is UK, the majority of its marketing spend is there. Most of all that CCL groups it with its EU focused lines, not with its NA focused line.

Edited July 17 by TRLD

[Kay S]

1 hour ago, memoak said:

Isn’t that more like quarters and dollars with Oceania ?

Well, five nickels make a quarter.  Can't take it with you. 😁

[Kay S]

48 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Good luck on Oceania. We did a 22 day on the line recently and almost left the ship in Hawaii, instead of doing the last 6 days back to LA. The only time on any line that we even thought about leaving early.

 

I think I'll go and make up my own mind, thanks.

[SCX22]

Interesting to note that, according to Cruise Market Watch research, Celebrity brought in more passengers and revenue than Princess.  IMO, Celebrity is Princess' direct competition and does a better job at marketing and appealing to a younger segment.

 

https://cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

 

[vjmatty]

57 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Suggest you contact them and convince them of its focus 

 

Yes I suppose I could send them their own marketing materials that they distribute to us travel agents and remind them of their markets as communicated to us. Also, Princess, HAL and Cunard are sold on the same TA website and booking engine, separate from CCL and the other CCL lines.   As for the one statement you read, we all know cruiselines always make accurate statements lol. Ask the people on Sun Princess looking for Park 19 😉

[TRLD]

14 minutes ago, vjmatty said:

Yes I suppose I could send them their own marketing materials that they distribute to us travel agents and remind them of their markets as communicated to us. Also, Princess, HAL and Cunard are sold on the same TA website and booking engine, separate from CCL and the other CCL lines.   As for the one statement you read, we all know cruiselines always make accurate statements lol. Ask the people on Sun Princess looking for Park 19 😉

SEC filings such as the 10k and 10Q tend to be a bit different since incorrect statements in those filings have legal ramifications.

 

 

[TRLD]

8 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I'm not sure what you are trying to say here - don't German, British and Italian cruisers count as adults?

 

I'm pretty sure that in terms of ship deployments across CCL as a whole, there's a pretty even split between North America and Europe.  It seems to me that cruise lines generally need to evolve in a way that suits passengers across their customer base, not just those from North America.  And, I'd hazard a guess that there is greater potential for growing the number of passengers from Europe over the next few years than there is from North America, given that the population of Europe is 50%+ bigger than that of North America and the cruise market is probably less developed in Europe.

According to the last 10Q the NA lines brought in over twice the revenue compared to the EU lines 3,974 million vs  1,697 million. The NA lines grew more 24 vs same quarter 23 than did the EU lines. 18.7% vs 15.8%

 

When it comes source of revenue based upon location of passengers 3,542 million was paid by passengers from NA  vs 1,631 paid by passengers from Europe.

[SCX22]

8 hours ago, cruising.mark.uk said:

I'm pretty sure that in terms of ship deployments across CCL as a whole, there's a pretty even split between North America and Europe.  It seems to me that cruise lines generally need to evolve in a way that suits passengers across their customer base, not just those from North America.  And, I'd hazard a guess that there is greater potential for growing the number of passengers from Europe over the next few years than there is from North America, given that the population of Europe is 50%+ bigger than that of North America and the cruise market is probably less developed in Europe.

 

North America is still the largest and fastest growing cruise market.  I think for Europe to catch up with North America with the cruise market, wages in Europe have to increase.  Source is from CLIA's 2024 State of the Cruise Industry Report.