Carnival Corporation Orders Three Additional Ships for Carnival Cruise Line, Introducing a New Class of Ships

[jimbo5544]

1 minute ago, aborgman said:

 

Well...

 

New Carnival ships:

230,000 gross tons

3,000+ staterooms

 

Oasis class:

235,000 gross tons

2,744 staterooms

 

I mean - it's possible Oasis class ships are dedicating way more space to crew - but odds are that being larger with less staterooms equates to more public space.

I have never seen a thing that does analysis between cabins and open space (whatever that means).  The reason I asked is the news just came out.  Is the relationship between occupants and number of cabins divided by tonage (water displacement) to cabins?  Is it open air or inside?  How does one determine or value “open space” anyways.  

[BlerkOne]

5 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

I mean - it's possible Oasis class ships are dedicating way more space to crew - but odds are that being larger with less staterooms equates to more public space.

By volume. Not necessarily by square footage.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, Saint Greg said:

Oh yeah it was great August 2021. Maybe slightly better than perfect. I mean we had 2,800 people. I frequently was the only person at the second level tiki bar on sea day afternoons. Now I don’t attempt to get to that bar. I’ll walk to serenity if I’m up there. 
 

I went to a juggling show in center stage and was the only person on the main floor.

The Mexican resorts were great back then as well. Traveling is a lot better when nobody else is doing it.

 

I was on the second sailing, thought ours was like under 3,000 as well.  It certainly was a unique cruise.  All the empty tables in the MDR was weird.

[toad455]

Carnival will try and hold on to the 5 Spirit class ships as long as possible. Otherwise, they won't be able to sail out of Mobile, Jacksonville, Tampa and Baltimore. By 2029, the Elation and Paradise will be gone.

[TeresaJ]

While the new ships sound cool and amazing, how about some new and/or interesting ports for these new ships. Almost every itinerary on Mardi Gras and Celebration go to Amber Cove, San Juan, and Nassau and the occasional St Thomas or Western itinerary. How about Southern itineraries or Eastern with different ports. Same old, same old gets redundant and boring.  I want to book the Mardi Gras again or try the Celebration, but the itineraries are just not that enticing.

[aborgman]

17 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I have never seen a thing that does analysis between cabins and open space (whatever that means).  The reason I asked is the news just came out.  Is the relationship between occupants and number of cabins divided by tonage (water displacement) to cabins?  Is it open air or inside?  How does one determine or value “open space” anyways.  

 

Tonnage on cruise ships is not water displacement. It is a function of the volume of all of a ship's enclosed spaces (from keel to funnel) measured to the outside of the hull framing.

 

For example - the 183,900 gross ton Excel class ships displace 80,000 tons of water.

 

...and they didn't say "open space", they said "public space". Those are two, completely different, things.

 

Public space is everywhere open to the "public" on the ship - bars, restaurants, theaters, pools, open air areas, gyms, etc., etc.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[aborgman]

23 minutes ago, BlerkOne said:

By volume. Not necessarily by square footage.

 

Are you trying to claim a public space that is 10'x10'x4' isn't smaller than a public space that is 10'x10'x10'?

 

Volume is a measure of space. Space is a 3D continuum, not a 2D plane.

 

[Saint Greg]

20 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

I was on the second sailing, thought ours was like under 3,000 as well.  It certainly was a unique cruise.  All the empty tables in the MDR was weird.

 

I never went in the MDR. I had a ton of OBC from cancellations and all so I ate specialty and had a couple chibang nights.

[sgttami]

4 hours ago, jeblack1 said:

So having never been on a Royal Ship, but have been on the Celebration, what more could Carnival offer with a larger ship?   

More stuff that I'd never do will be offered...LOL

I used to sail RCL and the Voyager class became too big for me.

I have no interest in Monstrosities of the Seas on any line.

[BlerkOne]

12 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Are you trying to claim a public space that is 10'x10'x4' isn't smaller than a public space that is 10'x10'x10'?

 

Volume is a measure of space. Space is a 3D continuum, not a 2D plane.

 

I'm claiming 50 ft ceilings have a lot of unusable space for passengers. With 10 ft ceilings a person still wouldn't have to duck.

[mikayla73]

3 hours ago, slavigne5577 said:

Please move Dream or Vista class ship to Nola.

 

This!

[CruiseAdict218]

1 hour ago, jsglow said:

I'm going to say no. They had enough challenges selling a Vista Class.

I thought the Vistas did well in the summer? Winter is definitely a different story. 

[tidecat]

3 hours ago, Stick93 said:

Are they putting 8000 passengers on these ships because oasis is still only 6000 passengers. 

 

Or is it 8000 with staff?? 

8000 is maximum passenger capacity. Double occupancy will be over 6,000 as the announcement refers to there being over 3,000 staterooms.

[mnocket]

Fairly misleading.   3,000 staterooms = 6.000 capacity when using the 2 pax per stateroom that is the industry standard for measuring full capacity.  So somewhat more passengers than Oasis class ships. 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, aborgman said:

 

Are you trying to claim a public space that is 10'x10'x4' isn't smaller than a public space that is 10'x10'x10'?

 

Volume is a measure of space. Space is a 3D continuum, not a 2D plane.

 

I do not care what any of that means, to me it is meaningless.  

[jsglow]

33 minutes ago, CruiseAdict218 said:

I thought the Vistas did well in the summer? Winter is definitely a different story. 

It did 'okay'. No doubt one will likely remain.

[mfs2k]

5 hours ago, hard_eight said:

8k people? No thanks.

 

8,000 people is probably 4,000 children.

 

Definitely no thanks. 

[Aoumd]

Amazing news for Carnival and a milestone of the cruise line (and industry)'s progress since the low point of 2020-2021.  Can't wait to see what type of features are on this ship!

 

Regarding crowding...

• My last cruise on Carnival Venezia was jam-packed crowded (school break, but most families cannot avoid that).  Venezia has 5,260 passenger maximum capacity / 4,208 double occupancy capacity (max is 125% double occupancy capacity), so 2,104 staterooms...on a ship of 135,225 tons.  Or 25.7 GRT per passenger on summer sailings with all the third and fourth berths filled.  
• The proposed "Almost 8,000" (let's say just over 7,900) maximum passenger capacity in the press release, at 230,000 GRT, works out to about 29 GRT per passenger, or about 12-13% more space per person than my last cruise on a similarly "maxed out" Venezia.
• I just hope, for the love of all that is good, that they put enough elevators and dining capacity in.  Even the "smart" elevator system on the Venezia had waits of ten or more full minutes, and waits of 80 minutes or longer for meals in the MDR once you pull up dining bookings on the app, on our recent school break sailing.  Even though I don't think people are switching cruise lines or vacation types over waits like these just yet, I don't like how close Carnival seems to want to come to force the issue for some passengers.
• I've sailed RCCL Oasis of the Seas and was impressed by how Royal designed the ship to s p r e a d   o u t the crowds.  Boarding took place through two gangways.  There were three or four places in separate parts of the ship with casual grab-and-go eats, so less pressure on the buffet.  Entertainment was similarly spread out.

 

Finally, I am curious if the delivery of these three ships will just be used for growth, or for replacement of any of Carnival's ships.  I don't know if these will be the ships that retire the Paradise, Elation and Spirit Class (smaller ships are needed for port bridge clearences at Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc.), I'm thinking more like the Sunrise/Sunshine/Radiance and/or some Conquest-type ships.

 

Edited July 23 by Aoumd
Refined calculations

[jimbo5544]

3 minutes ago, mfs2k said:

 

8,000 people is probably 4,000 children.

 

Definitely no thanks. 

As is always the case, that totally depends on when you sail. But it will def have more than a Vista class in any case.  

[jsglow]

1 hour ago, TeresaJ said:

While the new ships sound cool and amazing, how about some new and/or interesting ports for these new ships. Almost every itinerary on Mardi Gras and Celebration go to Amber Cove, San Juan, and Nassau and the occasional St Thomas or Western itinerary. How about Southern itineraries or Eastern with different ports. Same old, same old gets redundant and boring.  I want to book the Mardi Gras again or try the Celebration, but the itineraries are just not that enticing.

That's not the business model anymore for the big mass market lines. Ports will get 'less' interesting and more redundant, not the other way around. That'll be especially true for the new builds. They want 100% of your allotted vacation dollars spent with them.

[jsglow]

23 minutes ago, Aoumd said:

 Finally, I am curious if the delivery of these three ships will just be used for growth, or for replacement of any of Carnival's ships.  I don't know if these will be the ships that retire the Paradise, Elation and Spirit Class (smaller ships are needed for port bridge clearences at Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc.), I'm thinking more like the Sunrise/Sunshine/Radiance and/or some Conquest-type ships.

 

I'd be very surprised if Sunrise or Radiance is retired anytime in the foreseeable future. They just dropped $200+ million into each of them. The two remaining Fantasy ships? Sure.  Perhaps Conquest and Sunshine? Maybe. But we're still talking end of the decade.

[aborgman]

45 minutes ago, mnocket said:

Fairly misleading.   3,000 staterooms = 6.000 capacity when using the 2 pax per stateroom that is the industry standard for measuring full capacity.  So somewhat more passengers than Oasis class ships. 

 

Oasis class full capacity is 6,700 passengers in 2,744 rooms..

 

Excel class full capacity is 6,500 in 2,635 staterooms.

 

There is no chance full capacity with MORE than 3,000 rooms is 6,000.

[jimbo5544]

20 minutes ago, Aoumd said:

Amazing news for Carnival and a milestone of the cruise line (and industry)'s progress since the low point of 2020-2021.  Can't wait to see what type of features are on this ship!

 

Regarding crowding...

• My last cruise on Carnival Venezia was jam-packed crowded (school break, but most families cannot avoid that).  Venezia has 5,260 passenger maximum capacity / 4,208 double occupancy capacity (max is 125% double occupancy capacity), so 2,104 staterooms...on a ship of 135,225 tons.  Or 25.7 GRT per passenger on summer sailings with all the third and fourth berths filled.  
• The proposed "Almost 8,000" (let's say just over 7,900) maximum passenger capacity in the press release, at 230,000 GRT, works out to about 29 GRT per passenger, or about 12-13% more space per person than my last cruise on a similarly "maxed out" Venezia.
• I just hope, for the love of all that is good, that they put enough elevators and dining capacity in.  Even the "smart" elevator system on the Venezia had waits of ten or more full minutes, and waits of 80 minutes or longer for meals in the MDR once you pull up dining bookings on the app, on our recent school break sailing.  Even though I don't think people are switching cruise lines or vacation types over waits like these just yet, I don't like how close Carnival seems to want to come to force the issue for some passengers.
• I've sailed RCCL Oasis of the Seas and was impressed by how Royal designed the ship to s p r e a d   o u t the crowds.  Boarding took place through two gangways.  There were three or four places in separate parts of the ship with casual grab-and-go eats, so less pressure on the buffet.  Entertainment was similarly spread out.

 

Finally, I am curious if the delivery of these three ships will just be used for growth, or for replacement of any of Carnival's ships.  I don't know if these will be the ships that retire the Paradise, Elation and Spirit Class (smaller ships are needed for port bridge clearances at Tampa, Jacksonville, Baltimore, etc.), I'm thinking more like the Sunrise/Sunshine/Radiance and/or some Conquest-type ships.

 

First and foremost, you are absolutely correct, from the Covid low till now is an amazing transition that they should hold their head high on their performance.  Paying down that enormous debt and still order 5 new builds is simply outstanding.

 

Where they go and how they will deploy is still far off, but I would not be shocked if there not some surprises along the way.

[jimbo5544]

22 minutes ago, jsglow said:

That's not the business model anymore for the big mass market lines. Ports will get 'less' interesting and more redundant, not the other way around. That'll be especially true for the new builds. They want 100% of your allotted vacation dollars spent with them.

When ships cost a billion or more, it changes things.

[jimbo5544]

12 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Oasis class full capacity is 6,700 passengers in 2,744 rooms..

 

Excel class full capacity is 6,500 in 2,635 staterooms.

 

There is no chance full capacity with MORE than 3,000 rooms is 6,000.

We will see when Carnival gives the details.  Until then, it is nothing more than speculation.