Really struggling with NCL ethics and whether I should switch cruise lines

[JamesIowa]

2 hours ago, Crazy planning mom said:

 Carnival is reducing the number of ports to save on fuel costs and be environmentally conscious.   https://cruise.blog/2024/04/surprising-reason-carnival-expects-your-cruise-ship-visit-less-ports

I think NCL making changes to current sailings after final payment is wrong but can't they change ports at any time pursuant to the t @c?

 

 

I know nothing of the world of cruise port finances, but I can’t help but to think that plays a part in at least some of these itinerary changes. Had an Acapulco stop on the bliss last year changed to a sea day, we were notified onboard….so safety plays a part as well (pretty sure it was safety related but who knows). With NCL trying to maximize profits, it seems reasonable they’d look to save where they can.
i’d be down for a 15 day cruise to nowhere. Slowly circle GSC or whatever and make an obligatory stop in Cozumel. Wonder when if/when they start pushing the ship as a destination instead of the ports or “mystery cruises”. Where’re we going? Who knows?

Edited July 31 by JamesIowa

[julig22]

7 minutes ago, luv2kroooz said:

I didn't miss anything. I just don't understand your points. Are you saying NCL publishes itineraries and only then begins to negotiate port availability? Are you saying that it is harder or easier to negotiate port availability with a unique port that rarely gets a cruise ship port of call? Or are you randomly trying to justify reasons for NCLs regular itinerary changes which happen to routine itineraries and unique itineraries alike? Princess and Holland also offer unique itineraries.  What exactly are you trying to say?

What I am saying is that negotiations that begin 3+ years in advance can change at any time. Ports in Alaska, Mexico are tourist-based and the logistics of having cruise ships visit are pretty cut and dry. Not so much with a port that is not tourist based. Just which "routine" itineraries are you speaking of? Other than Alaska and Mexico, NCL does a lot of different but similar itineraries.

I'm not trying to justify anything, just countering your conspiracy theory. Things happen. If a port suddenly says nope, you're no longer welcome (think Bar Harbor) maybe the better thing to do is to find a friendlier location. And if 1 port changes, that is more than likely to change the entire itinerary - not a simple coincidence that more than 1 port gets changed.

I booked a transpacific cruise 3 years ago, it included Petropavlovsk. Once Russian ports were no longer available, they had to find a new itinerary. That obviously takes time.

A few places that come to mind, like Bar Harbor, Juneau, Santorini, have/are looking at restricting cruise ships, possibly in the very near future. So what happens to future itineraries in the interim - do the cruiselines proactively change the itinerary or wait until the dust settles?

Laws change, the environment changes. If the whales decide to change their migration pattern or stay longer in an area, then the rules for sailing in THEIR waters changes. If there is civil unrest in an area, the itinerary needs to change. A storm makes a port non-navigable for the near future. And scheduling a new itinerary takes time.

I personally have no reason to believe that NCL just cancels ports on a whim. It's entirely possible that it's all about their bottom line, as many choose to believe. I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt at this time.

[JoeTec]

I am on this same cruise. I personally don't think NCL is waiting until after final payment to make changes. The Getaway was supposed to be over in Europe until I think the end of Nov & they brought her to New Orleans early. We are the 2nd cruise & the one before us finally got their excursions posted about a month ago & the one after us were missing some of the ports (excursions)

 

They just sent out the email yesterday with the changes & all the times are longer in ports except costa maya is only 7-1 because they need time to get back to New Orleans.

 

Also with the origional itinerary in Cozumel there was supposed to be 6 ships & Roatan I think 4. Now we are only in port with 2 others in Cozumel, 1 other in Belize City & Costa Maya & 2 others in Roatan. And in almost every port we arrive 1 hour before the rest.

 

The only thing I think is strange is they switched out Harvest Caye for Belize City which they haven't hardly gone to since they opened Harvest Caye

 

 

 

 

[Anoynmous Phoenix]

It has got to the stage that

1) if they don't make itinerary changes before final payment

2) if they don't make itinerary changes after final payment

3) if they don't make itinerary changes when on board

or all three, I think I have won the lottery!!   We got what we booked and paid for.   Getting to be very uncommon!!

 

[cheersforbeers]

43 minutes ago, JoeTec said:

I am on this same cruise. I personally don't think NCL is waiting until after final payment to make changes. The Getaway was supposed to be over in Europe until I think the end of Nov & they brought her to New Orleans early. We are the 2nd cruise & the one before us finally got their excursions posted about a month ago & the one after us were missing some of the ports (excursions)

 

They just sent out the email yesterday with the changes & all the times are longer in ports except costa maya is only 7-1 because they need time to get back to New Orleans.

 

Also with the origional itinerary in Cozumel there was supposed to be 6 ships & Roatan I think 4. Now we are only in port with 2 others in Cozumel, 1 other in Belize City & Costa Maya & 2 others in Roatan. And in almost every port we arrive 1 hour before the rest.

 

The only thing I think is strange is they switched out Harvest Caye for Belize City which they haven't hardly gone to since they opened Harvest Caye

 

 

 

 

Are there any ships scheduled for Harvest Caye on the same day as Belize City since they can only accommodate 1 ship? Just a thought? 

[DorothyB]

2 minutes ago, cheersforbeers said:

Are there any ships scheduled for Harvest Caye on the same day as Belize City since they can only accommodate 1 ship? Just a thought? 

Yes Norwegian Joy is also scheduled for Harvest Caye on that day . . . and they just figured out that two ships were scheduled for the same day?? 🙂

[Cigar King]

8 hours ago, DorothyB said:

Am I crazy

You don't want me to answer that honestly...

[cheersforbeers]

1 hour ago, DorothyB said:

Yes Norwegian Joy is also scheduled for Harvest Caye on that day . . . and they just figured out that two ships were scheduled for the same day?? 🙂

Isn’t there and old saying about left hand and right hand. 
We will enjoy ourselves anyway. Take care. 

Edited July 31 by cheersforbeers

[shof515]

2 hours ago, DorothyB said:

Yes Norwegian Joy is also scheduled for Harvest Caye on that day . . . and they just figured out that two ships were scheduled for the same day?? 🙂

this reminds of my upcoming cruise on the breakaway in October. Both the Breakaway and Sky was scheduled to visit bar harbor on the same day. Unfortunately the breakaway was forced to canceled this port. its a kind of a shame now with about 3 months till sail date, Norwegian seemed to just figured out and now working on doing itinerary changes

[Sailor75]

Cruise lines change itineraries for a lot of reasons; but, they all do it so changing lines for that reason probably isn't a good reason. I've been on Carnival when they shut the door and pull away from the embarkation port just to announce a change in ports. Or, Princess when, in Alaska, they kept selling cruises with a specific itinerary and shore excursions only to change the stops as the season went on because the ship was experiencing propulsion issues through the entire season because it had to be dry docked to fix it and they didn't want to take it out of service. They let people book that cruise knowing they couldn't do it, I'd say that's probably unethical. There's always new people to replace people that leave; many people get mad at whatever cruise line they're loyal too and rotate to a new line, people are rotating too NCL as well.

[luv2kroooz]

3 hours ago, julig22 said:

What I am saying is that negotiations that begin 3+ years in advance can change at any time. Ports in Alaska, Mexico are tourist-based and the logistics of having cruise ships visit are pretty cut and dry. Not so much with a port that is not tourist based. Just which "routine" itineraries are you speaking of? Other than Alaska and Mexico, NCL does a lot of different but similar itineraries.

I'm not trying to justify anything, just countering your conspiracy theory. Things happen. If a port suddenly says nope, you're no longer welcome (think Bar Harbor) maybe the better thing to do is to find a friendlier location. And if 1 port changes, that is more than likely to change the entire itinerary - not a simple coincidence that more than 1 port gets changed.

I booked a transpacific cruise 3 years ago, it included Petropavlovsk. Once Russian ports were no longer available, they had to find a new itinerary. That obviously takes time.

A few places that come to mind, like Bar Harbor, Juneau, Santorini, have/are looking at restricting cruise ships, possibly in the very near future. So what happens to future itineraries in the interim - do the cruiselines proactively change the itinerary or wait until the dust settles?

Laws change, the environment changes. If the whales decide to change their migration pattern or stay longer in an area, then the rules for sailing in THEIR waters changes. If there is civil unrest in an area, the itinerary needs to change. A storm makes a port non-navigable for the near future. And scheduling a new itinerary takes time.

I personally have no reason to believe that NCL just cancels ports on a whim. It's entirely possible that it's all about their bottom line, as many choose to believe. I'm just giving them the benefit of the doubt at this time.

Appreciate the detailed response. I certainly hope your theory is true because it would be a very, very, sad day if it turns out that they were aware of port changes but continued to advertise those ports as being part of the itinerary.....bar harbour, maine comes to mind.

[PartyPlannerLady]

Ethics, LOL

[itsnotjustme]

11 hours ago, cruiseny4life said:

I received an email decreasing port times in all, but one of our ports.

I am not seeing that.

 

Two ports have more time (+1 and +2)

Two ports have less time (-1 and -4)

 

While still a net loss, it is not decreases in all but one.

[Shidah]

8 hours ago, shof515 said:

this reminds of my upcoming cruise on the breakaway in October. Both the Breakaway and Sky was scheduled to visit bar harbor on the same day. Unfortunately the breakaway was forced to canceled this port. its a kind of a shame now with about 3 months till sail date, Norwegian seemed to just figured out and now working on doing itinerary changes

Are you sure that is the case?  The town of Bar Harbor voted to keep out large cruise ships.  No large ship will be going to Bar Harbor in the future.

[Shidah]

On the Puerto Plata example, there was physically a damaged dock.  Every cruise where NCL could use Carnivals port on the same island about 20 miles away,  it did.  But Carnival ships had priority there.  Until Taino Bay was repaired.  So yes, there was some last minute juggling of itineraries, with one week possibly being different from the next.  .  Completely unplanned and out of the control of NCL. 

[shof515]

1 hour ago, Shidah said:

Are you sure that is the case?  The town of Bar Harbor voted to keep out large cruise ships.  No large ship will be going to Bar Harbor in the future.

Yes. Bar Harbor is suppose to honor existing cruise ship port of calls visit. I booked the cruise last year, well before any of the new restrictions that came out. these restrictions is suppose to take into effect starting next year

[dobiemom]

21 hours ago, Laszlo said:

I see you are going to Costa Maya. If you have never been there do yourself a favor and book a day at Maya Chan beach (private resort). My wife and I loved it there (twice)

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s enough time to visit Maya Chan (7am-1pm). 

[Laszlo]

4 minutes ago, dobiemom said:

Unfortunately I don’t think there’s enough time to visit Maya Chan (7am-1pm). 

Ugh.... thats a lousy time for a port day

[complawyer]

dorothyb. no one should have to struggle when picking out a vacation. im sure ncl doesnt intentionally change their itinerary to anger the passengers. many times ive booked and when we got on board, we were advised that certain ports could not be reached.

 

im a vietnam vet and booked the 1st southeast asian cruise ncl offered, one of the ports were hanoi (which i really wanted to see obviously) cancelled.... taipei... cancelled cambodia ...cancelled

 

last year, berlin....cancelled. 

 

disappointed ? definitely, angry, not so much, im still on a cruise ship in an ncl suite.

all that being said, if youre really that anguished about it, go ahead and book another line. it's not worth stressing about.

 

beware of poetic justice, however, if you book another line and any of your designated ports are cancelled

 

(just saying)

[Bribribri]

When I first read your title my expectation was that your issue was with advertising items as Free when they clearly are NOT Free. 

 

Free WiFi: is actually quite expensive. You get a sample of minutes and the frustrating experience of having to login and logout to use and preserve them. 

 

Free Specialty Dining: Again specialty dining is not Free. You might get one plus your Platinum cards. And, this creates an issue in any group when there is a varying count of included specialty dinners among them. 

 

Free Unlimited Premium Drink package: comes with a mandatory expense. It is not premium. Bailey's is Not included. It is limited to 2 drinks at a time, and by the fact that it takes 20 minutes or more to wait in line to get a drink. There is also nothing Premium about pouring sweet and sour mix and alcohol, instead of the commonly expected recipe of ingredients for a cocktail.

 

It is clear you want to switch.  Your loyalty can be status matched.  So, that shouldn't stop you.  I fell in love with Virgin Voyages from my first sailing on them and have posted some YT videos.

 

If I sail on NCL, it is only because of relatives with children. And they are thinking about going to Holland America for the next one, due to the most recent overcrowding and lack of staffing on an NCL cruise. 

 

NCL made the decision a couple of years ago to cut the number of service staff and it worked for awhile, but not with these crowds. 

[Travelling2Some]

22 hours ago, drew69 said:

Honestly, it is not really a major deal either way.  If you don't like a store, you switch stores, don't like a restaurant, switch restaurants, don't like a cruise line.  

 

It is really your decision.  What bothers you more the itinerary changes and "ethics" or your discomfort with  changing lines and trying new things/ways.

Well said.  If the issue is actually "loyalty" then I would point out that NCL is a large, faceless corporate entity who's purpose is to make a profit.  OP seems to be trying to create a personal relationship where none exists. 

[Travelling2Some]

5 hours ago, shof515 said:

Yes. Bar Harbor is suppose to honor existing cruise ship port of calls visit. I booked the cruise last year, well before any of the new restrictions that came out. these restrictions is suppose to take into effect starting next year

Check the actual port schedule to see if your ship is expected.  The port authorities have no motive to fabricate.  I do notice that NCL continues to advertise Bar Harbor well into the future.  We were to stop there next month and already got a notice that Bar Harbor was cancelled. 

[DorothyB]

27 minutes ago, Bribribri said:

It is clear you want to switch.  Your loyalty can be status matched. 

 

Actually I do NOT want to switch.  I'm comfortable with NCL, have a basic understanding of everything that relates to me and used to navigating their website.  As I age, I like change less and less.

That said, I did turn in the status match at MSC and am "gold" - now I need to figure out what the four "things" are that someone said two of them have anytime style dining.

 

7 minutes ago, Travelling2Some said:

 OP seems to be trying to create a personal relationship where none exists. 

 

That really is close to correct - not really a "personal" relationship but more like being treated with respect and professionalism

 

35 minutes ago, complawyer said:

beware of poetic justice, however, if you book another line and any of your designated ports are cancelled

 

It isn't that they were changed (although I am a little disappointed by Harvest Caye being deleted), but more they way they handled it.

[Travelling2Some]

NCL does seem to have a corporate management style that I would call "high handed" and even a bit shady.  I do find it annoying and their pricing is not helping.  We have always sailed all the mass market lines (except MSC) but preferred NCL as our best "fit".  I have become interested in MSC but their pricing is hard to understand and the idea of fixed dining is a deal breaker.  Every time I look at their website I come away feeling that I just can't be bothered figuring them out. 

[DorothyB]

3 minutes ago, Travelling2Some said:

23 hours ago, Two Wheels Only said:

 

MSC has anytime dining for Aurea Experience and for Yacht Club Experience.

 

Bella Experience and Fantastica Experience have set dining times.

 

3 minutes ago, Travelling2Some said:

 I have become interested in MSC but their pricing is hard to understand and the idea of fixed dining is a deal breaker.  Every time I look at their website I come away feeling that I just can't be bothered figuring them out. 

 

See above - there are options for anytime dining.  I suspect those might be like suite / haven but haven't been able to figure it out yet (busy days so not a lot of time)

And I totally agree on the website!