Is Holland America Line falling behind?

[Sdfgh]

My wife and I are both 5 Star Mariners on HAL. We’ve been on all 11 ships currently in their fleet. We just booked several more cruise on HAL for this upcoming winter. Needless to say, we enjoy much of the overall experience that HAL offers. I just read an article listing all the new ships that are coming out shortly as well as the ships that are under contract to be built in the next decade. The only mass market cruise line with zero plans is HAL. Along with the major cruise lines, numerous smaller more boutique cruise lines have new ships planned. Everyone likes new, tattered furniture, stained carpeting, and boring decor does not attract new customers nor does it keep loyal past passengers. 
The staff on HAL are exceptional, even though some post pandemic newer staff are just learning the ropes. The food on HAL is the best,  IMO , of any mass market cruise line, and I’ve been on most. The entertainment is probably the worst, same shows over and over again in main stage venue, movies on some nights rather then live shows, or other excuses for what should be an hour or so of real entertainment. 
There are many loyal HAL customers who don’t want to hear anything negative about their home away from home. The fact is that HAL, like most cruise lines have been cutting back. The small things that sometimes set HAL apart from its competitors is gradually disappearing. 
If HAL has any hope of attracting a younger generation cruiser, which BTW I’ve read they are attempting to do, newer more modern ships would be a great start. More activities during the day and evening would also help. An expanded Club Hal, teenage activities, and eliminate the boring, repetitive shows that I avoid on a regular basis. Some nights on HAL we find almost nothing to do, it’s boring.
For those reading this that are fearful that HAL would lose its mojo, and no longer be the cruise line they feel comfortable with, that doesn’t have to be the case. It can become the cruise line that you now enjoy even more. 
Realistically, new ships take years to plan and build, however, other changes, upgrades, can be implemented in a much shorter time. I am concerned that as the HAL fleet gets older and less desirable, and absolutely no plans for new ships are projected, and their current ultra loyal devotees are no longer sailing, HAL too will fade away and unfortunately be soon forgotten. 

[*Miss G*]

Welcome to Cruise Critic!  😉

[ottahand7]

As long as HA can take me to ports I want to see I remain happy with their model.  As someone who refuses to fly long haul HA gives me the ability to see places like Antarctica, Australia and NZ among others without having to fly other than a single stop to San Diego, we can drive to Fort Lauderdale or Boston.  The smaller lines make these ports also but HA gets me there with a fair price with some of the amenities we enjoy such as casinos and wine and liquor tastings.  Perhaps for the Caribbean a change may be needed but peace and quiet and lack of crowds has its' charm.  It may just fade away, be absorbed into Princess or Seaborne or change their current model.  

[canadarocks]

I agree with everything you’ve said. Except I believe the food quality has also declined significantly. We were VERY loyal 4* HAL cruisers, but I doubt we will return unless some big changes are made. 

[St Pete Cruiser]

Carnival has decided to only invest in those brands that are the most profitable at this time, at least until more of the debt is paid off.

[Sdfgh]

3 minutes ago, canadarocks said:

I agree with everything you’ve said. Except I believe the food quality has also declined significantly. We were VERY loyal 4* HAL cruisers, but I doubt we will return unless some big changes are made. 

I’ve found that the menu selection is somewhat smaller, lobster is now an upcharge even on the more dressy nights, and the Pinnacle Grill has noticeably declined in it’s quality of steak, especially the rib steak which I had to give back on 2 occasions. If I didn’t have the Pinnacle included with my 5 star perks I would not go there. My favorite dining venue is Tamarind. Caneletto is quite good except that it gets no respect situated on Lido deck. 
You are certainly correct in pointing out that certain aspects of the food onboard has declined. I’m just trying to think has ANYTHING gotten better? 

[Wasasalad]

My last two HAL in June and July were wonderful!

Many younger families with children!

Much  improved music!

Eurodam Rolling Stone Lounge best band I’ve heard in a long time. Packed every night. 
The dueling piano entertainers excellent 

Volendam great solo piano bar entertainer. Ocean bar band and singers excellent!

Food on both excellent!

it was great seeing the families enjoy everything together. The children danced the night away with their parents!

Both pools were packed with people having a great time

I'm not much of a drinker but they had amazing cocktails!

The food was excellent!

I love all the changes!

Edited September 2 by Wasasalad
Fix

[ski ww]

I agree with much of what you say. The entertainment is their biggest area that has to improve, more guest speakers, the Main Stage should have better shows, NOT movies. I think new ships will have to wait until they pay off some of their bills from covid.

[Wasasalad]

Just now, ski ww said:

I agree with much of what you say. The entertainment is their biggest area that has to improve, more guest speakers, the Main Stage should have better shows, NOT movies. I think new ships will have to wait until they pay off some of their bills from covid.

Many new cruisers on my cruises. Many have been on the circus type ships. They take their children on ships with 2,000 children. Their children didn’t get to do most activities because too many children!

They came to HAL for a classic cruise like they went on as children!

Years ago many families cruised with no children’s clubs or circus activities such as slides, climbing walls and go karts. 
Those giant ships are bringing more people to HAL and Oceania. 

[esimon]

NO

[isosika]

We have only been on one HAL cruise, 21 days on the Eurodam.  However, we have been on about 30 cruises overall and we are Elite on Princess.  We have sailed on new ships, big ships, small ships, and old ships.  Our first cruise was on a ship (Caribe I, Commodore Cruise Line) where you couldn't put the two beds together because they were welded to the wall.  Every ship since did not have this feature so we have made progress in at least that area.  We prefer the smaller sized ships so Eurodam was perfect.  Our next cruise is 43-days on the Westerdam, again another smaller ship.  We are not foodies but have noticed changes to the dining menus but mostly in what's being offered, not the quality received.  We have breakfast in the buffet, skip lunch, and dinner in the MDR.  Other than not offering food, there isn't much they can do to upset us in that area.  We are pretty laid back and have never had a bad cruise.  We are very excited about the upcoming 43-days on the Westerdam.

[Sdfgh]

11 minutes ago, St Pete Cruiser said:

Carnival has decided to only invest in those brands that are the most profitable at this time, at least until more of the debt is paid off.

The HAL ships are going out at full capacity, 100%,  or sometimes higher. What makes you feel that HAL is not as profitable as the many other cruise lines that fall under the Carnival Corporation umbrella? In general cruise lines are raking in the money, post pandemic numbers have now exceeded pre pandemic numbers. Perhaps Carnival Corp takes for granted the extreme loyalty HAL customers have, or perhaps C.C. is looking at HAL as a bygone era and will eventually sell off the fleet as their oldest ships can no longer be refurbished.

This is what the car manufacturers did with Oldsmobile, Plymouth, Mercury, Pontiac, etc. Sometimes you must first spend some money to make some money! 

[cbr663]

8 minutes ago, Sdfgh said:

The HAL ships are going out at full capacity, 100%,  or sometimes higher. What makes you feel that HAL is not as profitable as the many other cruise lines that fall under the Carnival Corporation umbrella?...

 

Because Carnival has sent the signal that it is investing in its most profitable brands.  If HAL was one of its more profitable brands then Carnival would have signalled that by investing in a new build for HAL.

[howiefrommd]

We are very much itinerary driven vs cruise line driven. Recently completed two HA cruise a 93 day Grand Australia and 28 day Alaska Arctic Circle.  We have noticed a decline in entertainment, food choices/quality and staff shortage.  Saying that, HA offers a very reasonable product for what we pay vs other cruise lines.  

You hear a frequent mantra of paying down debt.  Cruise lines historically have always been in significant debt.  CCL is no exception. However, they have no problem ordering new ships for other lines the own/operate.  
 

 

[Sdfgh]

4 minutes ago, cbr663 said:

 

Because Carnival has sent the signal that it is investing in its most profitable brands.  If HAL was one of its more profitable brands then Carnival would have signalled that by investing in a new build for HAL.

You are correct. HAL , is going out at full capacity. I’m not saying that HAL doesn’t have to discount unsold cabins, every business I know has to lower prices to move inventory. HAL, is discounting much less than a year ago. If you are selling all your product and still not making a significant profit then there’s something wrong with your business model. Their prices are set as to what the market will tolerate, as the sailing dates get closer prices will sometimes go up or down, whatever it takes to go out full. What can HAL do to be a more profitable brand, something they have begun doing, cutting back. This is a recipe that doesn’t lead to a good conclusion 

[Live4cruises]

@isosika
It made me smile to see someone else who has sailed on Commodore!  The beds weren’t a problem for us as I sailed with my cousin on a girls’ getaway. We weren’t on Caribe, but I can’t remember the ship name offhand. 

I still laugh at the memory of one morning waking up to a white wall immediately outside our window. Are we next to a BUILDING?  Turns out we were docked next to a Carnival ship. Both were undoubtedly tiny in 1992 compared to now. 
Thanks for nudging the good memory.  Others, please forgive the tangent. 

[BermudaBound2014]

42 minutes ago, Sdfgh said:

What makes you feel that HAL is not as profitable as the many other cruise lines that fall under the Carnival Corporation umbrella? 

Because Josh Weinstein actually said as much at the last quarterly release.
 

CCL is investing heavily in their most profitable brands and HAL didn’t make the cut. 
 

CCL even put out a nifty pie chart to show where the company plans to expand. Their focus is Carnival (big time), P&O, and Aida. 

 

As much as I love the long itineraries HAL offers, I am  skeptical on the future of Holland America under the CCl umbrella. 

[ModMs]

Oh, no! I for one do not want bigger, flashier ships or a bunch of kids running around. We left Princess because the movies on deck all day were so annoying. Don’t care about casinos or the entertainment offered, except in some isolated incidents. Not a foodie, so that’s not a problem either. Just enjoy cruising, seeing the sights, etc. But to each their own. 😉

[Sir PMP]

2 hours ago, Sdfgh said:

My wife and I are both 5 Star Mariners on HAL. We’ve been on all 11 ships currently in their fleet. We just booked several more cruise on HAL for this upcoming winter. Needless to say, we enjoy much of the overall experience that HAL offers. I just read an article listing all the new ships that are coming out shortly as well as the ships that are under contract to be built in the next decade. The only mass market cruise line with zero plans is HAL. Along with the major cruise lines, numerous smaller more boutique cruise lines have new ships planned. Everyone likes new, tattered furniture, stained carpeting, and boring decor does not attract new customers nor does it keep loyal past passengers. 
The staff on HAL are exceptional, even though some post pandemic newer staff are just learning the ropes. The food on HAL is the best,  IMO , of any mass market cruise line, and I’ve been on most. The entertainment is probably the worst, same shows over and over again in main stage venue, movies on some nights rather then live shows, or other excuses for what should be an hour or so of real entertainment. 
There are many loyal HAL customers who don’t want to hear anything negative about their home away from home. The fact is that HAL, like most cruise lines have been cutting back. The small things that sometimes set HAL apart from its competitors is gradually disappearing. 
If HAL has any hope of attracting a younger generation cruiser, which BTW I’ve read they are attempting to do, newer more modern ships would be a great start. More activities during the day and evening would also help. An expanded Club Hal, teenage activities, and eliminate the boring, repetitive shows that I avoid on a regular basis. Some nights on HAL we find almost nothing to do, it’s boring.
For those reading this that are fearful that HAL would lose its mojo, and no longer be the cruise line they feel comfortable with, that doesn’t have to be the case. It can become the cruise line that you now enjoy even more. 
Realistically, new ships take years to plan and build, however, other changes, upgrades, can be implemented in a much shorter time. I am concerned that as the HAL fleet gets older and less desirable, and absolutely no plans for new ships are projected, and their current ultra loyal devotees are no longer sailing, HAL too will fade away and unfortunately be soon forgotten. 

We don’t need an expanded club Hal.

[Sdfgh]

4 minutes ago, Sir PMP said:

We don’t need an expanded club Hal.

I don’t either, however, if HAL is looking to attract more families, which BTW they are, it would behove them to keep the little ones occupied while the parents and grandparents can spend some money onboard 

[Sdfgh]

22 minutes ago, ModMs said:

Oh, no! I for one do not want bigger, flashier ships or a bunch of kids running around. We left Princess because the movies on deck all day were so annoying. Don’t care about casinos or the entertainment offered, except in some isolated incidents. Not a foodie, so that’s not a problem either. Just enjoy cruising, seeing the sights, etc. But to each their own. 😉

Doesn’t have to be bigger, I’m quite happy with the mid size ships. Less tattered and more up to date is something that almost everyone can appreciate. I too don’t dabble much in the casino, however, I would welcome an evening with outstanding entertainment . 

[Haljo1935]

7 minutes ago, Sdfgh said:

I don’t either, however, if HAL is looking to attract more families, which BTW they are, it would behove them to keep the little ones occupied while the parents and grandparents can spend some money onboard 

Club HAL area was completely redsigned last fall on NS when it was in dry dock. 

[sunviking90]

1 hour ago, canadarocks said:

I agree with everything you’ve said. Except I believe the food quality has also declined significantly. We were VERY loyal 4* HAL cruisers, but I doubt we will return unless some big changes are made. 

A few weeks ago, and based on our recent HAL cruises,I would have agreed with you, but we are on a B2B Alaska on Nieuw Amsterdam and have been pleasantly surprised in so many areas. The food is great! The menu is much improved from some of the strange choices we had in the Volendam Hawaii last year. The crew are great and calling us by name after only a few encounters. They have changed the lunch menu, which was a disappointment as the new choices are very heavy and lacking salads/bowls but a minor complaint. There are many activities throughout the day.

One thing that has shocked us is the many heavily drinking to drunk guests. We don’t often do 7 day cruises anymore, so maybe that is the difference. HIA is a huge success here, but the drunk lady singing loudly on the back deck did mar the experience of College Fjord a bit. Definitely not the HAL crowd we usually see. Many passengers are first timers to HAL or Alaska which is good for the company.

[Sdfgh]

41 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

Because Josh Weinstein actually said as much at the last quarterly release.
 

CCL is investing heavily in their most profitable brands and HAL didn’t make the cut. 
 

CCL even put out a nifty pie chart to show where the company plans to expand. Their focus is Carnival (big time), P&O, and Aida. 

 

As much as I love the long itineraries HAL offers, I am  skeptical on the future of Holland America under the CCl umbrella. 

This pie chart shows me how Carnival is their biggest growing brand, and except for Carnival everything has pretty much stayed the same. Costa, Princess, and Seabourn all have new ships in the works.

[JeffElizabeth]

1 hour ago, ski ww said:

I agree with much of what you say. The entertainment is their biggest area that has to improve, more guest speakers, the Main Stage should have better shows, NOT movies. I think new ships will have to wait until they pay off some of their bills from covid.

We could care less about the shows but do like learning about our destinations. We are probably in the minority on this since the shows are packed. I am concerned that HAL doesn't get any new ships, but if they are going to be 4,000 passengers,  I won't be joining them.