Mystery charge

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Welcome to the world of credit card scams.  There are many ways for people to obtain your CC information without actually possessing the physical card.  Card skimmers at gas stations or other venues is a well known scam.  Online merchants getting hacked is another.  

I didnt say it wasnt possible. I was stating what amex considers fraud. And saying stick to facts. The OP doesnt recognize the charge...is a fact. Jumping to a conclusion without knowing where the charge came from is what is so tiring, people who think they know it all and insist they know when they dont. 

 

If the charge shows as being billed from royal it could be somehow they think op is making payments, any number of things. I cant tell you how many idiots there are out there who have no listening skills. They know it all. So we removed the charge. Then they call me back screaming the merchant still wants his money and we said they were right. No we very carefully worded it saying the credit will remain on your card. I did this for like 3 years and only college grads were hired. The rules are different than you assume. If I had a  nickle for every card member who threatened me daily with cancelling their card if I didnt remove a charge, I'd be rich. Daily loses its impact...just another person with no listening skills. Yawn. Some people only think that know stuff. .. I'm very cognizant of the laws governing disputes. 

 

Fact the OP says the charge reads it came from royal. If people like you want to assume some gas station embezzled their card in a scam and marked it royalcaribbean... lolol. Alert. ..look at the merchant name before making assumptions. And assuming this is fraud is a assumption not known at this time. I still agree with ken .. there is probably a reason or the merchant name wouldnt read royalcaribbean. Ken so far is the smart post here... honestly what are the odds a gas station skimmer is billing as royalcaribbean... think about it. All the OP knows is "he doesnt recognize the charge" is a dispute reason. Facts matter, not assumptions. OP asked a customer service agent, probably not accounting. Amex will not open a dispute based on assumptions. Only facts. I'm trying to tell you how a dispute works .. not how you are thinking. 

Edited September 12 by firefly333

[orville99]

52 minutes ago, Ken at the beach said:

From what I have experienced with the Next Cruise Agents that is definitely within the realm of possibilities.

True, they don’t exactly hire Nobel Prize candidates😇

[firefly333]

2 minutes ago, orville99 said:

True, they don’t exactly hire Nobel Prize candidates😇

And I'd bet whomever they talked to wasnt working in accounting. I've had customer service agents tells me obviously wrong things... call back and escalate it to accounting. Finally a post that makes sense. Common sense. 

[Another_Critic]

3 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

And I'd bet whomever they talked to wasnt working in accounting. I've had customer service agents tells me obviously wrong things... call back and escalate it to accounting. Finally a post that makes sense. Common sense. 

 

Hmm, @orville99's post was in response to Next Cruise, not RCI corporate.

[orville99]

1 minute ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Hmm, @orville99's post was in response to Next Cruise, not RCI corporate.

But my entire string of responses and comments was purely related to possible ways the OP's mystery charge could have occurred. Reading is fundamental. 

[grouchomarx]

31 minutes ago, shipgeeks said:

I've read a couple of posts recently that mentioned calling RC for an unrelated reason, being told you have an unpaid charge, and asking for immediate payment before proceeding.  As it turned out, the phone number the people called was a scam number, not RC, but obtained from a clever listing somewhere.

Could that be the case here?

No, nothing Iike that happened.  The only thing I’ve been in touch with Royal about on the phone since I booked was to change my cabin since I accidentally booked a connecting room originally. And that did not incur any charges.

[firefly333]

1 hour ago, Another_Critic said:

 

Welcome to the world of credit card scams.  There are many ways for people to obtain your CC information without actually possessing the physical card.  Card skimmers at gas stations or other venues is a well known scam.  Online merchants getting hacked is another.  

Just to add to your information. If you put your card in a gas pump and there was a skimmer... the card was out of your possession,  you put it in the machine. So this probably is fraud. Or in a restaurant the waiter takes your card around the corner and later there were extra charges it was out if your possession.  

 

But the chances of the billing merchant being royalcaribbean is slim and none. Billed in error. The op said he changed from a connecting cabin. Who knows, but the merchant name says it was billed from royalcaribbean ... this is important. This is the merchant the dispute will contact. Let's say the merchant doesnt answer within the 3 weeks allowed, late or never answered. We charge back. .. whatever the charge was no one ever knows. Let's hope it doesnt affect his booking. 

 

Unless you can explain how this gas pump skimmer billed thru royal .. ..facts matter in a actual billing dispute. I'm explaining how a dispute works. We write the merchant who billed the charge. OP said first post was a royal charge .. then later says fraud. I'd bet you its not fraud. And I speak from experience. 

[2wheelin]

37 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

I didnt say it wasnt possible. I was stating what amex considers fraud. And saying stick to facts. The OP doesnt recognize the charge...is a fact. Jumping to a conclusion without knowing where the charge came from is what is so tiring, people who think they know it all and insist they know when they dont. 

 

If the charge shows as being billed from royal it could be somehow they think op is making payments, any number of things. I cant tell you how many idiots there are out there who have no listening skills. They know it all. So we removed the charge. Then they call me back screaming the merchant still wants his money and we said they were right. No we very carefully worded it saying the credit will remain on your card. I did this for like 3 years and only college grads were hired. The rules are different than you assume. If I had a  nickle for every card member who threatened me daily with cancelling their card if I didnt remove a charge, I'd be rich. Daily loses its impact...just another person with no listening skills. Yawn. Some people only think that know stuff. .. I'm very cognizant of the laws governing disputes. 

 

Fact the OP says the charge reads it came from royal. If people like you want to assume some gas station embezzled their card in a scam and marked it royalcaribbean... lolol. Alert. ..look at the merchant name before making assumptions. And assuming this is fraud is a assumption not known at this time. I still agree with ken .. there is probably a reason or the merchant name wouldnt read royalcaribbean. Ken so far is the smart post here... honestly what are the odds a gas station skimmer is billing as royalcaribbean... think about it. All the OP knows is "he doesnt recognize the charge" is a dispute reason. Facts matter, not assumptions. OP asked a customer service agent, probably not accounting. Amex will not open a dispute based on assumptions. Only facts. I'm trying to tell you how a dispute works .. not how you are thinking. 

Why are you so adamant a fraudulent charge could not appear to be from Royal. That is exactly how many of these charges go undetected and the fraudsters get away with it. I have had fraudulent charges appear to be from Apple, a company I do business with, and from a couple other major businesses as well. They are wise to make it appear to be from someone you do business with so you are less likely to spot it.

 

[firefly333]

7 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

Why are you so adamant a fraudulent charge could not appear to be from Royal. That is exactly how many of these charges go undetected and the fraudsters get away with it. I have had fraudulent charges appear to be from Apple, a company I do business with, and from a couple other major businesses as well. They are wise to make it appear to be from someone you do business with so you are less likely to spot it.

 

OP called amex. The amex rep can see specific information relating to the merchant. Maybe the amex rep didnt want to get into it but they see a merchant # and address. It would be obvious if this were a fake similar name ..though I guess you are right, but I'd hope the amex rep looked and would say if it werent really royalcaribbean. More than just a name is on the charge the amex rep is seeing. 

 

But I get it possibly they had their fill of customers that day and didnt want to say. But if they looked at the charge to see it hadnt been billed yet, they could see the merchant info. Charges do get billed in error people. Or double billed. Lots of billing in error that is not fraud. It's a mistake. 

[Another_Critic]

51 minutes ago, firefly333 said:

Unless you can explain how this gas pump skimmer billed thru royal .. ..facts matter in a actual billing dispute. I'm explaining how a dispute works. We write the merchant who billed the charge. OP said first post was a royal charge .. then later says fraud. I'd bet you its not fraud. And I speak from experience. 

 

I think we need to drop this, but ...  😄

 

I don't think you understand how skimmers work. 

 

Someone installs the skimmer in the CC slot.  A cardholder inserts their card into the CC slot (which has the skimmer).  The cardholder completes the transaction and is correctly billed by the merchant they visited (e.g., Tim's Texaco). 

 

The skimmer owner (aka scammer) then obtains the information from all the cards that were inserted. 

 

The scammer then either uses that card information and uses it for payment at one or more merchants (could be Tony's Pizza, Sam's Sushi, or Royalcaribbean.com) or sells the information. 

 

The original cardholder is billed for the scammer's transactions and those transactions will state the merchant name where the scammer made the payment.

 

P.S. I may be missing some technical details or steps.

 

Disclaimer:  I am in no way saying this is what happened in the OPs case.

[smokeybandit]

This doesn't seem like fraud, or at least traditional fraud.  A small purchase for what could be a big ticket item doesn't make sense.

This seems more a human mistake somewhere.

[Another_Critic]

1 hour ago, firefly333 said:

Charges do get billed in error people. Or double billed. Lots of billing in error that is not fraud. It's a mistake. 

I got billed 14 times for my first ACA insurance payment ... for a total of $8,8xx.  😱

[grouchomarx]

So if it is some kind of mistake and Royal shows no record of it and cannot/will not fix it after multiple attempts on my end, isn’t the only way to get my money back through Amex?  I mean, they can’t just bill me for nothing and keep my money.  I would imagine if Amex contacted them and said what’s this charge for and they said we don’t even know, they would have to refund it right? I don’t mean to sound stupid I just never had this happen before except one a really large fraudulent purchase that was obvious and easy to get my money back.  So I’m not saying it’s necessarily “fraud”, but it could be a charge that needs to be disputed.  

[Ken at the beach]

4 minutes ago, grouchomarx said:

So if it is some kind of mistake and Royal shows no record of it and cannot/will not fix it after multiple attempts on my end, isn’t the only way to get my money back through Amex?  I mean, they can’t just bill me for nothing and keep my money.  I would imagine if Amex contacted them and said what’s this charge for and they said we don’t even know, they would have to refund it right? I don’t mean to sound stupid I just never had this happen before except one a really large fraudulent purchase that was obvious and easy to get my money back.  So I’m not saying it’s necessarily “fraud”, but it could be a charge that needs to be disputed.  

Yes, as a l;ast resort it can be disputed and Royal would have to prove it is a valid charge.  Like I said call Royal and get them to get in touch with someone in accounting and they can tell where it originated from.  You need to call during business hours 9 -5 EST

Edited September 12 by Ken at the beach

[grouchomarx]

1 minute ago, Ken at the beach said:

Yes, as a l;ast resort it can be disputed and Royal would have to prove it is a valid charge.  Like I said call Royal and get them to get in touch with someone in accounting and they can tell where it originated from.  You need to call during business hours 9 -5 EST

I will, as soon as it posts.  I have to say calling them can be rather painful, the robot wants to redirect me all over where I don’t want to go and the wait times can be insane.  It’s not fun!  NCL is so much better with phone CS.  Always a short wait and directed to a live human after only 2 prompts.

[Another_Critic]

Yes, you should wait until it posts.  It may be a case of a mistaken pending charge or hold that drops off and it never posts.  🤞

[Sunshine3601]

3 hours ago, grouchomarx said:

No, nothing Iike that happened.  The only thing I’ve been in touch with Royal about on the phone since I booked was to change my cabin since I accidentally booked a connecting room originally. And that did not incur any charges.

When you called Royal did you ask for the phone agent to connect with accounting dept?  

I find calling first thing in the morning has lowest wait time.

 

My concern is if the pending charge ends up being an actual charge and you dispute it, you may not be able to use your amex card with royal caribbean again.

Edited September 12 by Sunshine3601

[grouchomarx]

20 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

When you called Royal did you ask for the phone agent to connect with accounting dept?  

I find calling first thing in the morning has lowest wait time.

 

My concern is if the pending charge ends up being an actual charge and you dispute it, you may not be able to use your amex card with royal caribbean again.

I did not ask for accounting, at the time I did not know that was a thing. Once it posts, I will call in the morning, ask for accounting and see what they say.  I don’t understand why disputing a charge that was truly erroneous should block me from using that card again.  Seems rather severe.  But thanks for the info.  ETA of course if it’s a legit charge I would never dispute it!

Edited September 12 by grouchomarx

[not-enough-cruising]

1 hour ago, grouchomarx said:

I did not ask for accounting, at the time I did not know that was a thing. Once it posts, I will call in the morning, ask for accounting and see what they say.  I don’t understand why disputing a charge that was truly erroneous should block me from using that card again.  Seems rather severe.  But thanks for the info.  ETA of course if it’s a legit charge I would never dispute it!

I wouldn't waste my time calling Royal.

 

IF it posts (and I doubt it will) just go to your AMEX portal and dispute it, AMEX makes it SUPER simple to dispute charges online; then walk away, let the two corporations duke it out.

[Sunshine3601]

1 hour ago, grouchomarx said:

I did not ask for accounting, at the time I did not know that was a thing. Once it posts, I will call in the morning, ask for accounting and see what they say.  I don’t understand why disputing a charge that was truly erroneous should block me from using that card again.  Seems rather severe.  But thanks for the info.  ETA of course if it’s a legit charge I would never dispute it!

You mentioned that you changed your booking from a connecting cabin to non connecting.   Was the total cruise fare the same on both invoices?

 

[grouchomarx]

14 minutes ago, Sunshine3601 said:

You mentioned that you changed your booking from a connecting cabin to non connecting.   Was the total cruise fare the same on both invoices?

 

Yes total cruise fare was exactly the same, same exact cabin category just one floor down, it was so easy to do.

[Sunshine3601]

1 minute ago, grouchomarx said:

Yes total cruise fare was exactly the same, same exact cabin category just one floor down, it was so easy to do.

Ok, just thought maybe the charge was due to an increase for cabin switch.

Hopefully the pending charge just disappears.

[2wheelin]

17 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

This doesn't seem like fraud, or at least traditional fraud.  A small purchase for what could be a big ticket item doesn't make sense.

This seems more a human mistake somewhere.

This is exactly how it frequently works. They post a small charge to test the account first. I have had fraudulent (yes, fraudulent) charges for under $10 and always for an uneven amount.

Whether it is fraud or a mistake, it will cost me the same if I don’t notice and dispute it.

[smokeybandit]

8 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

This is exactly how it frequently works. They post a small charge to test the account first. I have had fraudulent (yes, fraudulent) charges for under $10 and always for an uneven amount.

Whether it is fraud or a mistake, it will cost me the same if I don’t notice and dispute it.

$270 isn't under $10 though. That's something people will notice.

[nelblu]

7 minutes ago, 2wheelin said:

This is exactly how it frequently works. They post a small charge to test the account first. I have had fraudulent (yes, fraudulent) charges for under $10 and always for an uneven amount.

Whether it is fraud or a mistake, it will cost me the same if I don’t notice and dispute it.

I recently got a text from my CC asking me if the $1 charge from WAWA was legit.   Called them and told them that I got gas around the same day, but not from W.  
The agent advised me that they would cancel the card and went on to ask me about a dozen innocuous statements before issuing a new card. 

 

I couldn’t understand why canceling the card so quickly and then remembered that a few months prior they froze my account I guess for some suspicious activity.  The problem was that they never informed me and I couldn’t understand why. 
 

I thought it was from over usage😀 and magnetic strip was damaged.  However that was not the case and got the info when I called to ascertain the reason.  Card was not cancelled this time.