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West Coast to Australia Flight


duquephart
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We are Florida to Sydney via Houston this coming January.   Much longer flight.  

 

Would I do coach for that....oh no way!  🤕

 

If I had to do coach on that...I would not do the cruise.  

 

We are first class to Houston, then "lay flat" bed style seats to Sydney...though I never sleep in those things anyway, at least there is more room.  DH sleeps very well...lucky him.  😉 

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1 hour ago, duquephart said:

Is it survivable in economy? I can do sardine for a couple of hours - but twelve? 

 

I mean... there are enough LAX <--> SYD planes flying daily with economy seating that it's obviously quite doable. Though, it comes down to whether you prefer to save (more than) a few dollars and fly economy versus upgrading to something like Premium, Business or even FC (if that exists) on a carrier.

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I would say...if you really wanted to save money, why not cruise with Royal, Carnival, HAL...etc?  Though I do mix it up with Royal and Celebrity (though never would go back to Carnival or HAL)...I am getting more into the (though pricey indeed) comfort stage of my life, enjoying Viking style.  

 

Most of us that sail on Viking...prefer a bit more comfort.   Already shelled out some of my nest egg for this Jan-March down under Viking adventure...what's a few more $$ for a comfortable flight.  😉  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by island lady
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10 minutes ago, island lady said:

I would say...if you really wanted to save money, why not cruise with Royal, Carnival, HAL...etc?

 

Most of us that sail on Viking...prefer a bit more comfort.  😉 

 

 

I've heard this argument before, and it's honestly a poor argument at best, and if it's a personal attack on me for my strong positions on some points.... that's very underhanded on your part.

 

People will get on a cruise ship, enjoy the cruise ship, and not get off at any of the ports because they enjoy the cruise ship experience. The traveling vehicle is what the vacation is.

 

There is really not a huge community of people that fly simply for the sake of flying where people want to enjoy the lounge and airline food, enjoy the drinks, enjoy being in a cabin for X hours on end. I'm not saying people like that don't exist, but the complete lack of marketing by the airlines to fill unused seats for people where the vacation is the airline... the market would be awfully small. (Also, don't think it's fair to include YTers that review airlines around the globe and the airlines are effectively the way they make FT/PT money).

 

When I'm God-willing 50, 60 or 70, maybe I'll feel differently.

Edited by Mike07
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1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I've heard this argument before, and it's honestly a poor argument at best, and if it's a personal attack on me for my strong positions on some points.... that's very underhanded on your part.

 

People will get on a cruise ship, enjoy the cruise ship, and not get off at any of the ports because they enjoy the cruise ship experience. The traveling vehicle is what the vacation is.

 

There is really not a huge community of people that fly simply for the sake of flying where people want to enjoy the lounge and airline food, enjoy the drinks, enjoy being in a cabin for X hours on end. I'm not saying people like that don't exist, but the complete lack of marketing by the airlines to fill unused seats for people where the vacation is the airline... the market would be awfully small. (Also, don't think it's fair to include YTers that review airlines around the globe and the airlines are effectively the way they make FT/PT money).

 

When I'm God-willing 50, 60 or 70, maybe I'll feel differently.

 

 

Well...it was certainly NOT a personal attack on you.   I know nothing about you.  I don't have the qualification to judge you.  And I did not quote you...just stated my view as it pertains to me.   

 

So here is some information about me.....not that you asked.  I have been cruising for many years...of which are longer than some cruisers have even been alive. 😉  So indeed, I may  know just a tiny bit about cruising.   We no longer have interest in cruising the mega theme park ships that cater to families and parties...not in our life style any longer.  

 

I was stating MY personal preference.   As an official member of the "old's fart club" I now happen to like a bit of comfort in my older age....as does my senior citizen DH.  So we have started booking now with some Celebrity, but mostly Viking.  I won't quibble the price of a comfortable flight, when I am already booking a higher price cruise line.   I figure the nest egg is there to be used, since we have earned it...and I intend on leaving this world broke...but happy.  😇

 

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20 minutes ago, island lady said:

 

So here is some information about me.....not that you asked.  I have been cruising for many years...of which are longer than some cruisers have even been alive. 😉  So indeed, I may  know just a tiny bit about cruising.   We no longer have interest in cruising the mega theme park ships that cater to families and parties...not in our life style any longer.  

 

I was stating MY personal preference.   As an official member of the "old's fart club" I now happen to like a bit of comfort in my older age....as does my senior citizen DH.  So we have started booking now with some Celebrity, but mostly Viking.  I won't quibble the price of a comfortable flight, when I am already booking a higher price cruise line.   I figure the nest egg is there to be used, since we have earned it...and I intend on leaving this world broke...but happy.  😇

 

 

 

You probably have been cruising longer than I've been alive... no argument there. And no, I have never stepped foot on a RCI or Carnival ship, because said lines do not interest me.

 

Where I'm going is that yes, you reach a point where mathematically, you cannot spend enough in your retirement that it may make sense to travel in comfort on an airplane. For me, I certainly can elect business class flights. But at the end of the day, for me, I can withstand 10-12 hours of discomfort for the savings. I'm not a small guy either (by height, not weight).

 

And back to my original comment.... a lot of people obviously survive the main economy experience on 12 hour flights.

 

Comparing the cabin class of flights to cruise ship lines is apples and oranges.

 

Jeff Bezos does not fly in his G700 for fun. He flies in it for the convenience of managing his fiefdom and travel to his destination of wherever one of his many yachts is around the world. The yacht is the final destination... not the Gulfstream.

 

Overall, our country generally has a poor domestic service with the legacy carriers and average, at best, international service, because all of the airlines are competing on price since the airline service is a commodity at this point and largely the means to an end (final destination). For another conversation is another thread, one of the reasons American and Southwest are so heavily assaulting JSX is that the new entrant is smoking them on bringing quality and comfort back to flying.

 

I've been on enough cruises in my shorter lifetime that I (generally) always see passengers that wish they could stay on the ship and keep going. I cannot say in all of the flights I've ever taken for work or in route to a cruise, people have said, "Yeah, I wish I could stay on this airplane!!!!".

Edited by Mike07
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I flew Houston to Auckland, and then back from Sydney to SFO in economy a few years ago.  It's a long, boring flight whatever cabin you're in, and I did luck into having an empty seat next to me on the flight to SFO as well, but I will absolutely do it again whenever I have a cruise in that part of the world.

 

I figure it's just a few hours, and I am not going to sleep in any case, and for thousands of dollars in fare difference I can absolutely put up with a few hours of discomfort.  Also, I'm 5'3" so lack of legroom is not a huge issue for me.  (My 6'4" son has a very different view of economy seating, and I completely understand!)

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1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I've heard this argument before, and it's honestly a poor argument at best, and if it's a personal attack on me for my strong positions on some points.... that's very underhanded on your part.

 

People will get on a cruise ship, enjoy the cruise ship, and not get off at any of the ports because they enjoy the cruise ship experience. The traveling vehicle is what the vacation is.

 

There is really not a huge community of people that fly simply for the sake of flying where people want to enjoy the lounge and airline food, enjoy the drinks, enjoy being in a cabin for X hours on end. I'm not saying people like that don't exist, but the complete lack of marketing by the airlines to fill unused seats for people where the vacation is the airline... the market would be awfully small. (Also, don't think it's fair to include YTers that review airlines around the globe and the airlines are effectively the way they make FT/PT money).

 

When I'm God-willing 50, 60 or 70, maybe I'll feel differently.

To me the flight experience is very important to the vacation, but I view the vacation from when I leave my house to when I arrive back at my house.  Based on my viewpoint, maximizing comfort while traveling is relevant.  I want an enjoyable experience regardless of the traveling vehicle (plane, train or automobile, but substitute ship for train🤣) I'm utilizing at a given time.

 

Simply put, enduring a flight when there's more comfortable options isn't really an option. 

Edited by Breckski
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11 minutes ago, Breckski said:

To me the flight experience is very important to the vacation, but I view the vacation from when I leave my house to when I arrive back at my house.  Based on my viewpoint, maximizing comfort while traveling is relevant.  I want an enjoyable experience regardless of the traveling vehicle (plane, train or automobile, but substitute ship for train🤣) I'm utilizing at a given time.

 

Simply put, enduring a flight when there's more comfortable options isn't really an option. 

 

 

For your point, to you, it's worth it to spend more money for a more comfortable flight. There's nothing wrong with that.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/katharinabuchholz/2022/02/10/no-frills-attached-more-us-air-travelers-opt-for-ultra-low-cost-infographic/

 

You look at Ryanair's market share in Europe, you look at Southwest exploring a main basic economy fare, you start to realize that I'm not speaking crazy.

 

The majority of the flying public places overall price as a huge factor in their decision to fly or not to fly or which carrier to choose. It's a brutal battle out there and hence why we're seeing so much unbundling of seat selection, checked in bags, domestic food service, and I'm sure other points to drive fares lower.

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One thing that I always pay attention to is which segment of travel am I on?  

 

LAX is our local international airport, which is easy going to Asia/Australia.  The European destinations are another story and why going to Europe we are less inclined to use Viking Air.  We have seen Viking Air route you on the long segment on the return landing on the east coast or Chicago.  If one books business class then you might have coach on a fairly long domestic flight when you are most tired.  As an example, Viking Air wanted to route us Barcelona-Chicago-LAX, our routing for less money and better schedule Barcelona-LHR-LAX

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2 hours ago, Mike07 said:

When I'm God-willing 50, 60 or 70, maybe I'll feel differently.

I would guess that the pool of people who view the flight (even in Business Class) as an enjoyable part of the vacation is pretty small. We have used economy seating on each of our ten trips from the East Coast to Europe, and none were pleasant.

 

The last one we took in June, was so miserable for me in the middle seat of three that at 71 I think I would give up the trips altogether rather than do it again. Certainly, even a bump up to Premium Economy would reduce the number of trips we would take. Years ago I gave up hope of seeing the places in the Far East that I wished to see, since I was unwilling to travel so far in economy, and unwilling to spend the extra to upgrade.

 

No, I personally would not do a flight from the West Coast to Australia in economy.

Edited by lackcreativity
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22 minutes ago, lackcreativity said:

 

The last one we took in June, was so miserable for me in the middle seat of three that at 71 I think I would give up the trips altogether rather than do it again. Certainly, even a bump up to Premium Economy would reduce the number of trips we would take. Years ago I gave up hope of seeing the places in the Far East that I wished to see, since I was unwilling to travel so far in economy, and unwilling to spend the extra to upgrade.

 

No, I personally would not do a flight from the West Coast to Australia in economy.

 

 

Booking a seat in an emergency exit row might be an option.

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5 hours ago, duquephart said:

Is it survivable in economy? I can do sardine for a couple of hours - but twelve? 

 

 

One more thing to consider... If the question is specific to Viking Air on a VO itinerary... sometimes Viking Air has special premium and business class pricing promotions available that are more challenging to get on the open market. That may change your business decision on which class to fly down under.

 

For the contentious threads we've had here over VA,

1. people have gotten quite upset with VA for either failing to get them business class flights even though there are "free" seats available on that flight number,

2. The promised seats were downgraded to a less desirable area in BC,

3. VA BC pricing/promotions were far superior to what's available to the GP on <airliner>.com and therefore Viking needs to make them whole.

 

Keep in mind, I say this as somebody that has fairly low expectations for flying in 2024 and not really needing creature comforts for 7-10 hours of my life. For me, every time I've priced out Premium and BC seats from USA to AU/NZ, I end up in main.

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3 hours ago, Mike07 said:

 

 

I've heard this argument before, and it's honestly a poor argument at best, and if it's a personal attack on me for my strong positions on some points.... that's very underhanded on your part.

 

 

1 hour ago, Mike07 said:

The majority of the flying public places overall price as a huge factor in their decision to fly or not to fly or which carrier to choose. It's a brutal battle out there and hence why we're seeing so much unbundling of seat selection, checked in bags, domestic food service, and I'm sure other points to drive fares lower.

Glad I'm not like the majority of the flying public.  And I think all of us here understand the basic economics of the industry.

 

It's all about perceived value to the customer which applies when comparing cruise lines also. That is really the point I was trying to make when you said saving money on cruise line vs airlines aren't comparable/poor argument. 

 

Most people have a budget.  Mainly based on dollars but occasionally based on availability of time.  If money is a major factor to one's travel, the cost of all components should be considered.  And allocate their dollars the best way one sees fit.  Just because others value flight comfort more than you doesn't make that a poor decision for them - or a poor argument to suggest saving money on the cruise portion of the vacation.

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31 minutes ago, Breckski said:

 

Glad I'm not like the majority of the flying public.  And I think all of us here understand the basic economics of the industry.

 

It's all about perceived value to the customer which applies when comparing cruise lines also. That is really the point I was trying to make when you said saving money on cruise line vs airlines aren't comparable/poor argument. 

 

Most people have a budget.  Mainly based on dollars but occasionally based on availability of time.  If money is a major factor to one's travel, the cost of all components should be considered.  And allocate their dollars the best way one sees fit.  Just because others value flight comfort more than you doesn't make that a poor decision for them - or a poor argument to suggest saving money on the cruise portion of the vacation.

 

 

If you circle back to this entire discussion, I never said premium flying experiences were a poor monetary decision for others. If I made point or suggest BC or premium flying was a waste of money, it was in error or taken way out of context. Only OP, and every poster here, can decide if it's worth it for them.

 

Rather, I have said and continue to maintain that the vast majority of the flying public, the airfare is the means to the end hence why flyers are so sensitive to airfare pricing. To my knowledge, for somebody like Bezos where money is seemingly limitless, his fleet of private jets is used to get him as efficiently as possible to wherever he goes. Maybe he flies the Gulfstream by the Rockies and Grand Canyon all the time, but I don't know the repeatability of a "vacation" like that for him whereas I'm sure he can spend weeks on one of his 3 or 4 yachts or whatever it is now.

 

To go back to OP's point, only OP can decide if it's worth the pricing premium from USA to AU, but I mentioned that lots of people do it every day. I also mentioned the cost savings and was the one that did the first economic angle. From a numbers standpoint, flyers between the two continents are overwhelmingly flying economy.

 

But, I think it's terribly unfair for people to say, "I would say...if you really wanted to save money, why not cruise with Royal, Carnival, HAL...etc?."

Edited by Mike07
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One important thing to remember is that air travel is NOT a commodity product, in spite of what many think.  Interior cabin configurations can vary widely, even within the same airline.  For example, while many carriers put 10 abreast in a 777 for coach, ANA has only 9 seats across.  That little difference can be quite significant over a 10+ hour flight.  Same with differences in pitch - an additional inch can mean the difference between knees rubbing the seat in front and being able to relax a bit.  So researching cabin configurations can be quite worth the time and effort.  Try www.aerolopa.com

 

Another consideration -- fares are often higher for a non-stop to Australia as opposed to a connection.  Yes, you have a longer travel time, but you also break up the journey with an airport stop.

 

Finally, there are options to get a free stopover on the way to Australia, to be able to stretch your travel dollar.  Free stopover opportunities include Tokyo, Osaka, Seoul, Singapore, Fiji and Honolulu.

 

Whether or not business or PE are "worth it" is 100% a personal choice.  I know my choice.

 

 

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We did coach on Quantas from LAX to Sydney in 2017. They had pretty nice bucket seating that tilted back while tilting your butt slightly forward. I was on aisle in midsection with empty seat next to me, DH was on aisle across from me. For coach it was a pretty good flight but despite the nicer seat and more legroom than average I arrived with a numb derrière!

 

We’re thinking of another trip down under and hoping to use our gobs of FF miles or springing for BC because we can. I wouldn’t go coach next time because we are better situated now and we don’t have to.

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2 minutes ago, lackcreativity said:

Good idea, but you need a bit of luck to snag those. I have also thought about booking the pair of us on seats across the aisle from each other. Not ideal, but might be an improvement.


I always check seat guru to see what type of aircraft is on the route. Sometimes you can find an aircraft (mostly Airbus) that has no middle seat on the window sides. On our last trip to Europe from the west coast, I changed flights just to ensure there was no middle seat. Aircraft can change, but a least you have a better chance of avoiding the situation.

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13 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

One important thing to remember is that air travel is NOT a commodity product, in spite of what many think.  Interior cabin configurations can vary widely, even within the same airline.  For example, while many carriers put 10 abreast in a 777 for coach, ANA has only 9 seats across.  That little difference can be quite significant over a 10+ hour flight.  Same with differences in pitch - an additional inch can mean the difference between knees rubbing the seat in front and being able to relax a bit.  So researching cabin configurations can be quite worth the time and effort.  Try www.aerolopa.com

 

 

 

 

I'll leave my comments towards you on the point above, that I would be surprised and honestly proud if any significant amount of flyers did this level of due diligence when buying airfare for this length of travel. (assuming domestic USA to AU/NZ) I am unable to define significant.

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2 minutes ago, OneSixtyToOne said:


I always check seat guru to see what type of aircraft is on the route. Sometimes you can find an aircraft (mostly Airbus) that has no middle seat on the window sides. On our last trip to Europe from the west coast, I changed flights just to ensure there was no middle seat. Aircraft can change, but a least you have a better chance of avoiding the situation.

 

Be careful with some of the seat maps b/c from my understanding, some of the sites are getting severely out of date and haven't been updated in a few years. @FlyerTalker mentioned the go-to site right now... aerolopa as being the best.  I don't know said poster, but I think that's the reason he cited that one.

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