Fully 1/2 of itinerary switch/deleted, no refund of fee to change date or ship

[ChiCruzr]

Which post(s) contain proof?  Can you point them out?  Not opinion, conjecture, speculation, armchair lawyering, FOAF stories, and/or feelings?

 

Where is the proof that NCL is engaging in fraud?

 

[UKstages]

well, the proof police won't like this answer, but kindly check out post #49.

 

and, really, any other post in which people share the exact same story: ports were changed by NCL, including embarkation and disembarkation ports, after final payment was made. also, any post - in this and many other threads - in which it is revealed that port websites showed no evidence of a visit by the ships(s) in question, no evidence that a berth was ever reserved, even while NCL's website and cruise consultants (and the good people of this forum) continued to insist that those ports were always scheduled.

 

once again, the empirical data is the proof.

 

Edited yesterday at 12:09 AM by UKstages

[JSar]

37 minutes ago, ChiCruzr said:

Which post(s) contain proof?  Can you point them out?  Not opinion, conjecture, speculation, armchair lawyering, FOAF stories, and/or feelings?

 

Where is the proof that NCL is engaging in fraud?

 

Exactly. There is no proof one way or the other whether or not NCL is purposely committing in fraud. Either way... this isn't a court of law. And we aren't the judge or jury. You either CHOOSE to sail with NCL knowing what you know... or you CHOOSE NOT to. The CHOICE is yours. I choose to sail with them knowing that I am prisoner to their itinerary and itinerary changes should they make them. But no one is FORCING me to purchase a cruise through them. 

 

If I want to be in charge of my own itinerary and daily agenda... I will book my own vacation sans cruise or tour group. 

[JSar]

34 minutes ago, UKstages said:

well, the proof police won't like this answer, but kindly check out post #49.

once again, the empirical data is the proof.

 

LMAO... Yeah... a small selection of data collected from a few disgruntled cruisers is hardly PROOF. Evidence? sure. Proof? Show it to an actual judge and jury. 

[itsnotjustme]

Sorry to everyone who has been subject to post-final payment date unjustified itinerary changes.

 

We had a dropped port on our April 2025 Korea - Japan cruise.  In our case, the change was before final payment date.  Only speculating, but because it was a sold-out cruise maybe they felt safe giving early notice as any cancellations are likely to be refilled - at least on this cruise.

 

I have settled on NCL as my preferred cruise line, so this behavior of theirs troubles me.  I want NCL to continue to be my favorite line, and I hope they do not spoil it! 

[shof515]

1 hour ago, Turtles06 said:

Norwegian had the Breakaway going to Bar Harbor in Sept. 2025, but it’s the Getaway that will actually be doing those cruises. I realize the ships are the same size, but what’s your basis for saying the Getaway will be allowed to tender there?  Thanks. 

On the official bar harbor website: https://www.barharbormaine.gov/190/Cruise-Ship-Information there is a link that says Statement about and spreadsheet of "grandfathered" cruise ship reservations. Click on this and go to page 2 to see a list of all of the grandfather ships allowed to tender . Currently it only shows the breakaway and not the getaway. the dates of the visit does match with most of the 2025 Canada/New England cruises on the ncl website for the Getaway

 

These 2025 sailing match the bar harbor grandfather ships reservation chart. the ship is scheduled to tender on bar harbor on the dates listed in that chart.

August 24 is tendering on Wednesday August 27

August 31 is tendering on Wednesday September 3

September 7 is tendering on Wednesday September 10

September 14 is tendering on Wednesday September 17

September 21 is tendering on Wednesday September 24

September 28  is tendering on Wednesday October 1

October 5 is tendering on Wednesday October 8

October 12 is tendering on Wednesday October 15

 

These 2025 sailings do not match the bar harbor grandfather ships reservation chart. they will be itinerary change on these sailings as the ship will not be tendering at Bar Harbor. it is false advertising on ncl part to have this port listed for these sailings.

August 17, where will the ship dock/tender on Wednesday August 20?

October 19, where will the ship dock/tender on Wednesday October 22?

[One More for the Road]

13 hours ago, herbanrenewal said:

When others have a point of view differing from yours is it necessary for you to "whine" about their desire to express their opinion, frustration?

 

Well, one of us certainly needs to quit whining. I'll take the bullet if that makes you happy.

 

[hoops71]

Btw. All of Bar Harbor may be subject to change again. As I stated in earlier post, we tendered there on Breakaway earlier this month.  There were political signs everywhere for a referendum this coming election to repeal

or loosen those restrictions on cruise ships.  Don’t have any polling data.  Much like this issue on this thread!

[Turtles06]

44 minutes ago, shof515 said:

On the official bar harbor website: https://www.barharbormaine.gov/190/Cruise-Ship-Information there is a link that says Statement about and spreadsheet of "grandfathered" cruise ship reservations. Click on this and go to page 2 to see a list of all of the grandfather ships allowed to tender . Currently it only shows the breakaway and not the getaway. the dates of the visit does match with most of the 2025 Canada/New England cruises on the ncl website for the Getaway

Yes, thanks, I’m aware of that list. But as you’ve acknowledged, the reservation was for the Breakaway and, as you said, a cruise ship reservation (not a cruise line reservation).  Especially since Bar Harbor does not want these big ships tendering, I don’t think either of us can say now that the Getaway will be allowed in. Bar Harbor might allow NCL to switch ships, but I think it’s premature for you to say with certainty that the Getaway has been “grandfathered” in for 2025, unless you’re aware of some additional facts beyond that list, which the Getaway is not on. 
 

Thanks. 

[ChiCruzr]

4 hours ago, UKstages said:

well, the proof police won't like this answer, but kindly check out post #49.

 

and, really, any other post in which people share the exact same story: ports were changed by NCL, including embarkation and disembarkation ports, after final payment was made.

 

 

Disagree.  Anecdotes are not proof.  

[UKstages]

they’re not anecdotes. they are factual, verifiable occurrences.

 

and there are dozens, if not hundreds, of them.

 

 

[RedwingHockeyFan]

I'm not sure about fraud.  It may not even be considered fraud unless someone makes an actual claim against it in court.  It certainly seems fishy to me if they don't inform anyone until after final payment especially if they knew about it before then and were still selling cruises with the original itinerary.  However, I had booked a cruise that the itinerary changed but they were still selling under the original itinerary.  But when you clicked the cruise, a box popped up telling you that the itinerary had changed and showed the new one.  I wonder if it is just an IT issue that makes it difficult to update listing in the system.

[herbanrenewal]

1 hour ago, UKstages said:

they’re not anecdotes. they are factual, verifiable occurrences.

 

and there are dozens, if not hundreds, of them.

 

 

YES to the above. One thing some people can not understand is most of us are not presenting legal arguments. We do know how to read, and routinely read contracts before agreeing to them. The anecdotes are simply  our individual response to the theme of this thread - "Fully 1/2 of itinerary switch/deleted, no refund of fee to change date or ship". Stay on topic - if you are not commenting on itinerary changes to YOUR cruise your comments are hyperbole not in keeping with the topic.

Edited yesterday at 12:40 PM by herbanrenewal

[cruiseny4life]

15 hours ago, hoops71 said:

Now is the part where someone tells me I am an idiot and this data and website already exist somewhere.

So far as I'm aware there isn't a website tracking this, except NCL's internal site for agents where all the change emails are posted. Unfortunately, I no longer have access to that site as I'm not an agent anymore.

 

What we do have, are those passengers with cruises booked that self report when they receive the itinerary change email. This thread has been a very good one to find that information and to determine if you're willing to risk booking a NCL cruise. 

 

Peruse the below thread. Hopefully other posters don't abuse it so that it can become a read of cruises that are changed, especially after final payment. There is enough "proof" there for me to believe NCL does this on purpose. Others can certainly desire a higher bar of "proof," but I'm in the camp of NCL changes after final payment purposely. 

 

Happy reading!

 

 

[sanger727]

I'm curious if the people who take the stance that they can change ports at any time because its in the contract; take that same stance with other businesses.

 

I had an issue with a gym once.  My membership expired in 2 months, and they started offering me a discounted detail to renew right away, so I did.  1 month later they announced that they were becoming an express gym - no classes and reduced hours.  It was clear that they were trying to lock people into extending their contracts before they made that announcement. I complained and they pointed out that the contract doesn't guarantee classes or hours.  I called corporate and was able to get out of the contract

 

I can't imagine taking the stance that any business can flip the services offered but don't complain, because it's in the contract.

Edited yesterday at 01:34 PM by sanger727

[prov2727]

3 hours ago, RedwingHockeyFan said:

I'm not sure about fraud.  It may not even be considered fraud unless someone makes an actual claim against it in court.  It certainly seems fishy to me if they don't inform anyone until after final payment especially if they knew about it before then and were still selling cruises with the original itinerary.  However, I had booked a cruise that the itinerary changed but they were still selling under the original itinerary.  But when you clicked the cruise, a box popped up telling you that the itinerary had changed and showed the new one.  I wonder if it is just an IT issue that makes it difficult to update listing in the system.

I do have some doubt as to the skill of their web developers. My cruise has been listed for months (since at least January) as starting at one location (in my account; it is correct on the web page) but not only does it not start there, it doesn't even stop there. How difficult is to it change one word in the title? 

[The Traveling Man]

18 hours ago, Ozmodiar said:

... the decision that was the least disruptive - to NCL - was to wait until after final payment to make the changes. Because the alternative might have resulted in many cancelations.

 

I believe that you have struck the nail squarely upon the head.

[DCGuy64]

21 hours ago, hoops71 said:

I am having a hard time figuring out how common this problem is in reality.  My wife and I are have now been on 19 NCL cruises all over the world. (Asia, Europe, Alaska, Caribbean, Bermuda, Northeast, Baja etc.)  In all that time we have missed two ports.  Grenada would not let the Epic dock during COVID.  Barcelona had a fisherman's strike that blocked the port.(I feel like we could have knocked those smaller boats aside).

 

Our most recent cruise was on Breakaway on October 6th.  People assured me for a year we would not stop in Bar Harbor.  We made the stop in Bar Harbor. (It was lovely).

 

I realize others have had varying degrees of disappointment with NCL and port cancellations and a different experience.  For example, the poster who had the beginning and ending points on their Asia cruise changed I believe is rightfully angry.

 

All of this is to say, how common is this versus how often are the cruises delivered as advertised.  Complaining parties are much more likely to post, than satisfied cruisers.  It would be helpful if the Cruise Industry had some reporting mechanism on this issue similar to airlines.  When I book a flight, I can look up the airlines on-time and cancellation rates.  Additionally, the website will normally tell me the on-time percentage success of that particular flight.  One could then look up the success rates of each cruise line, ship or port.  It could be that NCL's successful port rate is 98%, or it could be 80%.  I have now way of telling.  Based on the CC boards I would think it was less that 50%. But, based on my own experience it should be higher.  Once we had such numbers we could compare it to other cruise lines and plan accordingly.

 

Now is the part where someone tells me I am an idiot and this data and website already exist somewhere.

It isn't common. It's just that when it happens (which is rare), those who are upset make a fuss. NCL has dozens of ships and sails itineraries nearly all year long. So if even, say, 10% of their itineraries are adjusted in some way (including things outside their control, like conflicts and bad weather), the percentage might not be high, but the raw number of changes might seem extreme. But it isn't. Many people sail with NCL over and over again with almost no changes. I'd call them very much the silent majority. I'm confident the stats would prove me right.

[RocketMan275]

On 10/22/2024 at 3:58 PM, hoops71 said:

I am having a hard time figuring out how common this problem is in reality.  My wife and I are have now been on 19 NCL cruises all over the world. (Asia, Europe, Alaska, Caribbean, Bermuda, Northeast, Baja etc.) 

 

2 hours ago, DCGuy64 said:

It isn't common. It's just that when it happens (which is rare), those who are upset make a fuss. NCL has dozens of ships and sails itineraries nearly all year long. So if even, say, 10% of their itineraries are adjusted in some way (including things outside their control, like conflicts and bad weather), the percentage might not be high, but the raw number of changes might seem extreme. But it isn't. Many people sail with NCL over and over again with almost no changes. I'd call them very much the silent majority. I'm confident the stats would prove me right.

The NCL website lists 632 cruises.  How many have had more than slight adjustments?

[hoops71]

That is precisely one of the issues.  How do we define "slight adjustments" versus major changes.  After reading the boards, I have definitely seen three or four complaints that I would consider major changes. (changing beginning port, ending port, or numerous ports such as the OP here).  But then I seen others complaining about missing Mazatlan!  I would consider that an improvement!

 

But that is just my personal opinion, and I know people's vary.  For example,  just off the Breakaway October 6th.  We tendered at Bar Harbor.  It was nice, but I would not have considered it a great loss if we had to skip it.  Surely would not have ruined the cruise.  I know others feel differently about that stop.

 

But if there are 5 "major changed" cruises out 632, that is less than 1%.  Doesn't make those deviations right. But it would show that the issue is over represented on this forum.

Edited 17 hours ago by hoops71
grammar

[Cruisecorn]

25 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

 

The NCL website lists 632 cruises.  How many have had more than slight adjustments?

If indeed is isn’t that common it would seem that when they make a MAJOR change (50% of itinerary) after last payment they would be flexible with allowing their customer to change dates or ships without penalty.Seems little to ask if the numbers are truly small. 

[Cruisecorn]

2 minutes ago, hoops71 said:

That is precisely one of the issues.  How do we define "slight adjustments" versus major changes.  After reading the boards, I have definitely seen three or four complaints that I would consider major changes. (changing beginning port, ending port, or numerous ports such as the OP here).  But then I seen others complaining about missing Mazatlan!  I would consider that an improvement!

 

But that is just my personal opinion, and I know people's vary.  For example,  just off the Breakaway October 6th.  We tendered at Bar Harbor.  It was nice, but I would not have considered it a great loss if we had to skip it.  Surely would not have ruined the cruise.  I know others feel differently about that stop.

 

But if there are 5 "major changed" cruises out 632, that is less than 1%.  Doesn't make those deviations right but it would show that the issue is over represented on this forum.

Agree, I don’t know what percentage of NCL cruises have port changes after final

payment but as I just posted in another’s post

   

If indeed is isn’t that common it would seem that when they make a MAJOR change (50% of itinerary) after last payment they would be flexible with allowing their customer to change dates or ships without penalty.Seems little to ask if the numbers are truly small. 

 

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[RocketMan275]

2 minutes ago, Cruisecorn said:

If indeed is isn’t that common it would seem that when they make a MAJOR change (50% of itinerary) after last payment they would be flexible with allowing their customer to change dates or ships without penalty.Seems little to ask if the numbers are truly small. 

The smaller the number affected, the less reason to to allow date changes.

Once the lines begin to make acceptions, the more requests for acceptions.

 

[SeaShark]

3 minutes ago, RocketMan275 said:

The smaller the number affected, the less reason to to allow date changes.

Once the lines begin to make acceptions, the more requests for acceptions.

 

 

I know that you meant "exceptions", but your point is valid. Additionally, for NCL or any other line to do so would be to negate the reason to purchase the insurance which is available for cases just like this. We have to discourage the mindset of: I don't want to pay for insurance because I typically don't need it, but when I actually do, the cruise line should be out the money...not me.

[RocketMan275]

12 minutes ago, SeaShark said:

 

I know that you meant "exceptions", but your point is valid. Additionally, for NCL or any other line to do so would be to negate the reason to purchase the insurance which is available for cases just like this. We have to discourage the mindset of: I don't want to pay for insurance because I typically don't need it, but when I actually do, the cruise line should be out the money...not me.

Yes, I meant exceptions.

Glad  you  pointed out the implications for insurance.

When people forgo insurance and then ask for exceptions, they are pushing the costs onto others.  The cruise line won't eat the costs, they will increase the costs paid by other customers.