AVOID Park West Galleries Auction at Sea

[lyndamarie6]

We just got back and won cells of bugs bunny, sylvester, tweety bird and we won in auction a betty boop in her kitchen holding a lobster. We got a great deal think $80.00-90.00 a piece and bugs bunny was a steal...we never get them framed as you will be charged so much more money for the framing in addition waiting much longer for them. We were told it would take 6 weeks for us to receive, we received them just 12 days after our cruise in perfect condition. We just took them yesterday to a framing store and getting a great deal on the frames.

 

We also paid for the appraisal and the authenticity report...you won't be ripped off if you know when to stop the bidding. :) We enjoy our pieces and looking forward to next year on the Mariner of the Seas to add to our collection.

[babstx]

I'll be the first to admit that I am not an expert at Art (or even close to it). However, I will say that I was very happy with a Kinkade print that I purchased. The first cruise I went on I thought the prices were high. When I returned, I searched eBay and all other sites trying to beat the price. I was unable to do so. So the next cruise, I bought the print. I had a great time and got a good deal (mind you, I only paid $200).

 

And after receivng the print, I went to Michaels and Hobby Lobby at their 50% off sale to get a frame. That is when I found out it would have been cheaper to have Park West frame the picture also (due to the size of the print).

 

Perhaps with the more expensive paintings, the price may not be good. But with the Kinkades, the price is very reasonable. And I had fun. Isn't that what a cruise and vacation is all about?

 

HAPPY CRUISING!!!:p

[lyndamarie6]

Glad you got a good buy on your Kinkade, it was a good buy, and to choose your own frame is even better and better priced!!

[Rowtyd]

My favorite quote from one of the Park West auctioneers... something to the effect of: "Once the ship arrives in a port and the art is accessible to land, the value of the artwork goes up. On land, the same art is sold for $$$$ but while we are at sea, I can sell it for $$"

I didn't understand. Why would the auctioneer waste his time at sea selling valuable art so cheap when he could sell this art for such a large price on land? :D

[Charles4515]

My favorite quote from one of the Park West auctioneers... something to the effect of: "Once the ship arrives in a port and the art is accessible to land, the value of the artwork goes up. On land, the same art is sold for $$$$ but while we are at sea, I can sell it for $$"

I didn't understand. Why would the auctioneer waste his time at sea selling valuable art so cheap when he could sell this art for such a large price on land? :D

 

You know the old saying, there is a sucker born every minute. People want to believe and the auctioneers pitch to the gullable.

[Guest cvbart]

In general art is not a good investment for someone who is a casual collector. You either need more money than God or luck and an education to do well.

 

Does that mean you should not buy it? Nope. Buy what you love, what speaks to you. Hang the art on your wall and appreciate it. Art for investment? You are probably better off buying real estate. I am not coming up with this on my own, but I'll be danged if I can remember where I got it. It's been in the brain trap for a long time, so I suspect college.

 

Great point.

 

Buy it because you love it and don't spend more then you can afford.

 

I don't think any art you buy at Park-West is going to be much of an investment.

 

Is it overpriced? That's for you to decide.

[Andipanda1]

I couldn't agree more. I have bought several pieces from students who sell their art to earn some extra money for school. The pieces are quite remarkable.

 

We buy art occasionally from the Washington affiliate of VSA, a program that helps children and young adults with disability through art programs. Some of the pieces are very nice--many of these youngsters are talented--and there are some up-and-coming artists out of that program. The pieces are affordable--and the kids get the proceeds. The great part is that they have special "meet the artists" gallery exhibitions were you can talk to the kids about their work. We would never buy art as an investment, but we see this as an "investment" of another sort. :)

[mbtaz]

We purchased a signed Jim Davis lithograph onboard Song of America in 98. It is one of the Rockwell self portraits with Garfield the cat. No one bid against us and it was $80 plus shipping. We had it framed at home and thouroughly enjoy it. Park West has come up several times and so I searched online, and the same lithograph in the series is now going for $500 unframed. So we are happy with our purchase.

 

We tend to try many cruise ship things "once" . Art auction, murder mystery dinner, etc. It's always fun, but not something we would necessarily do again. I don't think Park West is a scam any more than any other auction is a scam.:)

 

pb, is it "The Doctor" where the little girl is holding garfield instead of her doll? We got that on one of the ships as well, LOVE it. We've also bought a Peter Max mixed media piece that is now going for 6800.00 and we bought it years ago for less than 2500.00 You just have to know what you are bidding on.

[john & Gerrie nj]

as long as the are a profit center they stay- if they go there will be something better in that space. JMHO

[slotaddict]

I have bought several pieces of art from Park West. I am satisfied with every piece. I got a great price on a Kincaid, bought it unframed. A friend of mine framed it for me in a Kincaid frame, it adorns my living room wall and get alot of compliments on it. I think it was money well spent.

[Charles4515]

I have bought several pieces of art from Park West. I am satisfied with every piece. I got a great price on a Kincaid, bought it unframed. A friend of mine framed it for me in a Kincaid frame, it adorns my living room wall and get alot of compliments on it. I think it was money well spent.

 

Saw the PBS show on Kincaide. They print the pictures on a printing press and then workers put some brush strokes on them. LOL.

 

I call it factory art.

 

The best art to buy is from local artists. Not from Park West and ilk.

[gerif]

DH enjoys the auctions - usually gets a piece on each cruise. If you don't enjoy them or think they are a rip-off (he wouldn't dream of going to bingo - but I do sometimes), then stay away. No one is forcing you to sit there.

 

We've always had the framing done ourselves and are happy with each piece we've bought. Never thought of any of them as an investment, just something we enjoy looking at. Actually, someone else put it very well - art and jewelry, unless you really know what you are doing, should never be purchased as an investment - just buy what makes you happy and enjoy it!

[isujim]

It sure is easy to figure out which posters have bought art from Park West. Defenders of the faith...

 

Personally I wish they would move the auctions out of the Centrum to some more intimate place, like the engine room.

 

LL

 

LL.......how about moving them out to sea?:) Just joking......well kinda........remember.......one man's junk is another man's treasure. These art auctions aren't for me but it is just another at sea activity if you enjoy them..........good luck to one and all.

[PH8]

On the Mariner last month,we went to the art auctions(something new to do).........anyway, they held up a Farkas print(which was nice) and said it was yours just for applying for their credit(approved or not).

 

Well, a few weeks after getting home,I got the credit card........but no print..........Ok, I thought,it will come later.......

 

As of today,no print............I called PW and spoke to a rep...............she in turn told me I had to get approved on the ship and then pay $35 for s/h.....................No one told me that...........In fact,one of the PW reps stood by the door and collected the applications...........No mention of staying and finihsing the process there........

 

Well, I now have a bad tast in my mouth for PW(poor customer service)........I will cut up the card and add it to the letter I am sending them.............

 

Very poor way to treat someone you just gave a $15,000 credit line to................:mad:

[irb33785]

My experience with the art auction was on Holland America. We bought one to carry home after the cruise. Little did we know, but there was no glass! What looked like glass was a plastic covering (similar to Saran wrap). Little did we know! On the next cruise, we inspected the prints and sure enough every one we looked at had plastic instead of glass. We now go for the champagne only.

[yogimax]

Mrs. Yogimax has a degree in Art so we really enjoy the auctions for the educational and informational aspects.

 

We have had varied experiences with Park West. Most have been highly positive but there have been exceptions.

 

Ultimately, it is up to the individual. One comment I have to make is that those who claim they were not informed of Park West's policies regarding shipping, framing, etc., must have missed the start of the auction. At every PW auction, they are very clear about the policies.

[porsche1]

I also agree that the auctions are not "scams". Crystal was the auctioneer on our cruise and was wonderful...when she was asked a question she was not positive of...she answered " I will find out for you from the gallery". If you find a piece of art you like, like most posters here have said, then bid with your head or not at all. You can definetely drop more in the casino and come away with nothing. Park West are reputable, do a search on them. I purchased a Rut for DW, and it was a better price at auction end than if I had bought direct from HIS website.

Just know what you are buying. You get appraisals and COA's for insurance purposes so PW has to verify it prior to you receiving.

Its a fun thing to do onboard and we were not pressured at all...Matt the drummer from Maharaja's even helped us out! It was alot of fun...

just MHO.....;)

[Cruzn Chuck & Susan]

We always go to at least one session of the auction, if for nothing more than the free champagne! ;) LOL We have bought a few pieces on a cruise, not for investment purposes, but because we liked the pieces. We bought one very large print and had it framed by PW and they did a wonderful job and the price for framing was within reason. It was beautifully done, and we get compliments on the piece quite often.

Some of the auctioneers are horses patoots but we have had a few that was entertaining and knowlegable...very enjoyable to watch other people pay BIG BUCKS for the "art"...they must know what they are doing :rolleyes:

I say...go..enjoy..learn...laugh & drink and have fun! :D

[phopte]

One comment I have to make is that those who claim they were not informed of Park West's policies regarding shipping, framing, etc., must have missed the start of the auction. At every PW auction, they are very clear about the policies.

 

I have to agree here. I just attended my first land based PW auction and they were very up front about all charges including taxes (not applicable at sea). Even at that, I did think they were even more emphatic about it at the sea auctions I have attended. Everyone's experience is different but they even went over it several times during the sea auctions, I guess as the auctioneer saw more people coming in.

 

FWIW, I really think if you are interested in some art, you really can save some money at sea vs the land sales. This is especially true if you are purchasing a more expensive work or multiple smaller pieces. As one of the PW people told me, you can save enough to pay for your cruise! I know while I will continue to attend the land auctions, I will watch the prices carefully and most likely do any purchasing at sea.

 

Just my $.02. :D

[Happy ks]

Why would pay even $250 for a Kincaid print? He is a commercial artist.

 

This also confuses me. His art is so wide spread, so much available in every mall across America. But it sells, go figure :confused: . It looks so mass produced to me, are these limited editions? Do they only sell a limited number of each print? If so, Kincaid must never sleep, he would have to be painting 24/7. Is he really the artist for all the paintings, or does he employ others to paint in his style?

 

Art is appreciated differently by eveyone, what I'm not terribly impressed with a lot of people may love. I probably have a few prints in my house that someone who loves Kincaid would not care for.

 

I'm one who like to support local artists when I travel. I'll look for a piece produced in the area, representing the area we have travelled to. I'm not interested in buying art for investment, I don't have that kind of income. But, our little "collection" is not available in the same mall from the West Coast to the East Coast.

 

I've been to the auctions before, we stay in back and observe. It's really interesting to watch what is going on, how some "bidders" number is not taken down, unlike most others in the audience, the auctioneer would pause and wait until the winning bidders number was recorded. It was like they had some people planted in the audience to stimulate the bidding.

[yogimax]

This also confuses me. His art is so wide spread, so much available in every mall across America. But it sells, go figure :confused: . It looks so mass produced to me, are these limited editions? Do they only sell a limited number of each print?

 

Yes, the Kinkades are limited editions. The difference, however, is that the edition size will be in the thousands while most art work is in the 100-750 range

[ezi-amy]

Hi everyone,

I am an Artist and a collector. We did buy a few prints from Park west.

 

When Parkwest started they had a good idea and they were able to give you great prices on works of Art. Also when they started the internet, ebay was not what it is today where you can get fantastic prices on works of Arts. Specially if you can buy directly from the Artist.

 

You have to know what you are buying so you can pay a fair market price for the Art. Parkwest does not give you much information like they used to, they are becoming a Wall Mart of Art. All they care about today is selling, selling and selling. They used to spend time in telling you about the artist and explaining the media(check below for a quick lesson on medias).

 

Parkwest does something that is considered illegal in some states. All auctions Southerby, ebay and all other legal auctions the auction house does not own the item that they are selling, the are selling on behalf of someone else and the 15% or 20% that they charge is their commission. Parkwest buys a gallery going out of business or directly from the artist and set their own price.

Example: they go to an artist and ask to buy a series of limited edition prints, they buy 1000 prints and give the artist $25,000 for it. They tern around and sell each print for $125 or more and make $100,000 in profit and charge you 15% to pay for their expenses.

 

Buying ART:

Rule #1 always buy something that you like. Rule #2 buy only what you can afford (you can afford more than you think you can). Rule #3 make sure that you will not come home and say to yourself What was I thinking off?.

 

Know what you are Buying.

 

The most valuable Art and the best investment that will increase in value every few month is: Original one of a kind painting made completely by the Artist's hand. You will pay a lot for this, and the best place to buy it is directly from the artist. You can even negotiate the price. It is not hard to buy directly from the artist specially with the internet where you can search and find the artist. When I exhibit and sell in a gallery I always double my prices, the gallery charges 40% and up to hang and sell your painting.

 

Limited edition lithograph and serigraph. Always check the edition number 34/290 (the second number) a decent number of the print is 300 or less. Today some artist print edition of 2000 and more of the same print. The more famous the artist the most likely that the artist hired someone to actually do the printing for him and he inspect them and number and sing them.

 

Artist Proof (AP) are some times numbered. Before the artist does a print he does proofs to make sure that the color does not leak and it is exactly what he desires. In the old days they used to throw the proof out. Today do to the high cost of paper ($10 and up per sheet) and the high cost of ink, the artist sell these proofs for less that the price of the series. When they tell you that the print was embellished by the artist, that means that the artist was correcting the mistakes by hand so the print can look more presentable and can be sold. Parkwest makes it out to be something fantastic like the artist actually painted the piece and try to sell them for more money. BEWARE Parkwest auction off limited edition Prints and when you receive them they are Artist proof and not the series that you bid on. When you contact them they tell you that in the contract they can send you the exact image that has the same value BUT an AP print even if numbered has a lower value that the actual edition for the same print. This did happened to us.

 

Giclee Prints have the lowest value of any print even if it is on canvas or has the lowest possible edition of 2. Giclee print are produced with a very expensive printer and all the artist does is create the original image and sign and number them. They will never go up in price. They are a great source for spending the least to decorate your house. I sell Giclee prints in my web-site and on ebay for $15 each to cover the cost of the expensive paper and ink. I don't make any money on them, I sell them just to get my name out there and if the person likes the print they might return and buy an original painting.

 

Signed in Plate are nothing more than a very high quality poster that the artist had nothing to do with it except give permission to reproduce the image. I love this about parkwest they sell you this as an original print. Congratulations you have won an original Print from our raffle or for showing up. These are always signed in plate prints (we have 12 of them still in the tubes unopened. If you win just one don't waste your money on the $35 in shipping. Park west make money on the shipping.

 

Rembrandt and other dead artist. Sometimes they do sell prints by dead artist that have some values, like a Picasso but you will pay the fair market price. Again with today internet you can do as well or better.

A few years ago on the princess line (pre-carnival) they hold their own auctions they were selling a limited edition Picasso for $10,000 that was a fantastic deal. Today no one will sell you that print for less than $30,000. BEWARE Park west are selling Original Rembrandt for thousand of dollars. What they don't tell you is that these prints are not from the period of the artist life time, they are a limited edition reproduction from the same plate. They forget to tell you that these prints were done from the family of the estate of the people that own the original print. Yes they have some value and they are excellent quality reproduction of the artist's work but they will never hold the value of the original vintage print. These new prints are overly priced by parkwest and again since they own the series they can charge anything they want thus they are not a true auction house.

 

 

** You can still find decent prices and get a good bargain from parkwest or other auctions at seas but you must have an idea to what you are looking at. do you homework on the internet and you will be able to tell the difference in Art. I still collect art and have lots of fun and satisfaction in owning original works of art.

Ezi

[PH8]

Thank you for all the interesting info you provided.........I also enjoyed your website and the paintings.......travel and art...what a great combo!

[ezi-amy]

If you are buying a Kinkade for an investment or to be proud that you own an original from a famous artist DON'T. If you are buying a Kinkade because you like the image and it will look great in your house DO so.

 

Kinkade is overly commercialized and the value of his prints are overly priced because of his name. If you are buying a kinkade today, it is most likely that he had nothing to do with it except for the original image and his permission to reproduce. I have seen different artists paint the exact image and attribute it to him. He has become a corporation and has other artists that do most of the work on his behalf in his style. His limited edition prints have very large series numbers and are totally executed by someone else. The only kincade that will hold value after he is gone are the original paintings that are totally done by him, and you have to make sure that you have a lot of documentation and provenance that he did the work himself. To buy one of them today will cost you $100,000 and up (overly priced for today).

 

If you enjoy his work and like to collect them, by all means don't stop and have fun with it. Just know what you are getting and you are paying a premium for his name.

 

It is not uncommon of a famous artist to have his art work done by others called apprentices or students. This started back in the 1400's at the time of the great Masters. Leonardo, Michaelangelo, Rubens, Raphael and many others had apprentices. Some of these artists like Rubens were so famous and popular in their days that they had different apprentices work on one painting and directed by Rubens with some of his touches, at the end it was singed and labeled as an original Rubens even if only 5% was done by him.

 

A good investment is an unknown artist that you like his work. If you bought a Tarkay print on a cruise ship a few years ago you did very well his work is going up every day. This is only one example there are many other artist that are well worth collecting for investment. **Remember the best investment anywhere is still art (mostly original one of a kind painting).

Vincent van Gogh sold only one painting in his life time and his brother was a gallery owner. Today you can not buy an Vincent for less than $40 Million Dollars. Picasso sold a painting when he was just starting out for $28,000 which was an incredible amount of money in the 1950's that exact painting sold in 2004 for $104.000.000 I can go on and on and on....... All those artist have one thing in common they were not always famous (even Kincade)...... Keep on collecting new artists (I know I will) you never know you might hit the lottery one day.

 

I will still enjoy going to the Auctions at Sea to see what is out there and see how cheap I am selling my painting. I am also curious to see how many mistakes or deliberate omissions the auctioneers does. If you ever see me on a cruise ship and want to discuss art or need advice on a print or painting, please do so. You can also email me through my web-site. Ezi

[gsb]

the free bubbley, and watch the auctioneer go to work on all those excited bidders!:p