Passport Clarification Needed..

[smeyer418]

The United States requires everyone arriving in the United States to have a valid passport unless they have a trusted traveller card and it is in use at the border crossing they are using. A drivers licence maybe acceptable as a secondary piece of identification but it does not establish nor does it prove citizenship. In the simplelist of terms it proves that you are legally able to drive a car in the state in which it was issued. There is an exception some provinces in Canada and some states have an agreement to issue what is called a secure drivers licence which is subject to special procedures and where persons have such a licence they can use to cross the border by car. I could almost guarentee you that if you tried to board a flight in Europe destined to the United States without a valid passport you would be denied boarding. I refer you to the US State Department Web Site. http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html The only exception is if you are flying in from hawaii or Alaska

 

 

not on a round trip cruise from a US port. My link explains the exceptions.

This discussion was of the necessity of carrying your passport when getting off the ship in Europe. I just was in South America and the passport stayed on the ship in three countries. Never asked for. I rented a car in one country. No passport required just my NY state Driver's license and a credit card. No international drivers license either.

[NYCFOD]

I am looking for current (summer 2010) passport information. This thread is now down to 2 poster fighting over something and too much to read. Can anyone point to a newer thread or some real info? Yes, I have been on the state dept site. I also called RCCL and although the state dept has that a passport is required there are other ways to go to the caribean. At RCCL I was told that a driver's license and birth certificate or naturalization certificate is sufficient.

 

Any help? re-direction?

 

The State department is the best source of information on travel requirements. See http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html, the current requirements are for a Passport card, or a passport book when arriving by land or sea from the Caribbean. If there is a chance you may have to return by air (e.g. you hate the cruise and you want to get off, you get sick and are evacuated, you get stinko drunk and abuse the crew and they put you off) then you'll need a passport book to fly into the US.

[megr1125]

arucruzan

 

 

http://www.royalcaribbean.com/customersupport/faq/details.do;jsessionid=00006cbXRFQd-MQJHTXWJ_l88py:12hdhua36;jsessionid=0000UMPbM0caceno5iQ-ZBxR9g2:12hdhubrs?pagename=frequently_asked_questions&pnav=5&pnav=2&faqSubjectName=Cruise+Documents&faqId=2814&faqSubjectId=329&faqType=faq

 

that is the link to RCCLs info.

 

If you are on a CLOSED LOOP cruise leaving from, and returning to the same US port...you do NOT need a passport....BUT if there is a chance that you'd need to fly home FROM a port, you would need a passport. A passport card will NOT be of any use if you have to FLY home from a Caribbean port in the middle of a cruise...

 

If you are NOT on a closed loop cruise then you need a passport....

 

also see the link in smeyers post above...#649

Edited July 1, 2010 by megr1125

[njhorseman]

The State department is the best source of information on travel requirements. See http://travel.state.gov/travel/cbpmc/cbpmc_2223.html, the current requirements are for a Passport card, or a passport book when arriving by land or sea from the Caribbean. If there is a chance you may have to return by air (e.g. you hate the cruise and you want to get off, you get sick and are evacuated, you get stinko drunk and abuse the crew and they put you off) then you'll need a passport book to fly into the US.

 

Sorry, but the State Department is NOT the best source for this information, because it is not the executive branch department responsible for protecting our borders. That job belongs to the Department of Homeland Security, and as has been cited numerous times on these boards and in this thread, there is an exception to the passport requirement for US citizens on closed loop cruises. Here is the explanation of the exception, from DHS:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

[NACH]

So we are boarding the Epic on Aug 7th we both have passports cards not books we will being going to Roatan, Honduras, and mexico.... It is the western Caribbean cruise.... Do u guys think out passport CARD and original BC and DL is okay???????? I'm so nervous about this...Please advise..... I know book is better but we used it to cross Canada border all the time to go snow skiing.....:o

[NACH]

The only country I am truly worried about is Honduras... Not sure If Passport card is okay with this country.....

[njhorseman]

So we are boarding the Epic on Aug 7th we both have passports cards not books we will being going to Roatan, Honduras, and mexico.... It is the western Caribbean cruise.... Do u guys think out passport CARD and original BC and DL is okay???????? I'm so nervous about this...Please advise..... I know book is better but we used it to cross Canada border all the time to go snow skiing.....:o

 

The only country I am truly worried about is Honduras... Not sure If Passport card is okay with this country.....

 

Your passport card is fine. An original birth certificate and drivers license would also be fine. This cruise qualifies under the closed loop cruise exception to the passport requirement cited numerous times on this thread and elsewhere...including the separate thread you initiated.

Edited July 7, 2010 by njhorseman

[TPKeller]

Your passport card is fine. An original birth certificate and drivers license would also be fine. This cruise qualifies under the closed loop cruise exception to the passport requirement cited numerous times on this thread and elsewhere...including the separate thread you initiated.

I would be VERY CAREFUL here. That list of countries included some that are NOT on the list of countries in the "Caribbean Region".

 

The government has redefined what the term "closed loop" means. This should be no big surprise, that the government would change what words mean... but you should take steps to make very sure that you have the correct documents.

 

Here is the State Department web page for the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, and here is the page listing the countries in the Caribbean Region.

 

Note that Honduras is not on the list!

 

Better be safe than sorry.

 

Theron

[njhorseman]

I would be VERY CAREFUL here. That list of countries included some that are NOT on the list of countries in the "Caribbean Region".

 

The government has redefined what the term "closed loop" means. This should be no big surprise, that the government would change what words mean... but you should take steps to make very sure that you have the correct documents.

 

Here is the State Department web page for the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative, and here is the page listing the countries in the Caribbean Region.

 

Note that Honduras is not on the list!

 

Better be safe than sorry.

 

Theron

 

Yes, it's not on the State Department list (neither is Belize) but DHS, which is the Executive Branch department responsible for enforcement of our entry requirements and our border protection (NOT the State Department) has a very simple rule that has been cited over and over again here, and merely requires the country to be in the Western Hemisphere to qualify for the closed loop exception. The DHS rule does NOT reference the list of WHTI countries. For what must be the hundreth time, here is what the agency in charge, DHS, says:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

Note the words "travel only within the Western Hemisphere"...NOT "travel only to WHTI countries".

 

Further, the major cruise lines...NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, etc. have confirmed this, and Carnival even has an explanation on its Web site citing that it specifically clarified this issue with DHS. Finally, numerous Cruise Critic posters have confirmed they sailed itineraries that included Belize and Roatan with only a birth certificate and drivers license.

 

So in summary:

 

DHS...the government agency in charge says so;

The cruise lines say so;

Cruise Critic members who have sailed these itineraries say so.

Edited July 7, 2010 by njhorseman

[njhorseman]

Yes, it's not on the State Department list (neither is Belize) but DHS, which is the Executive Branch department responsible for enforcement of our entry requirements and our border protection (NOT the State Department) has a very simple rule that has been cited over and over again here, and merely requires the country to be in the Western Hemisphere to qualify for the closed loop exception. The DHS rule does NOT reference the list of WHTI countries. For what must be the hundreth time, here is what the agency in charge, DHS, says:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

 

Note the words "travel only within the Western Hemisphere"...NOT "travel only to WHTI countries".

 

Further, the major cruise lines...NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Celebrity, etc. have confirmed this, and Carnival even has an explanation on its Web site citing that it specifically clarified this issue with DHS. Finally, numerous Cruise Critic posters have confirmed they sailed itineraries that included Belize and Roatan with only a birth certificate and drivers license.

 

So in summary:

 

DHS...the government agency in charge says so;

The cruise lines say so;

Cruise Critic members who have sailed these itineraries say so.

 

Here's the quote from Carnival I cited above:

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/EMB_travel_document.aspx

 

Recent guidance received from the Department of Homeland Security indicates the documentary requirements under WHTI for “closed loop” cruises are not limited to cruises that travel only to contiguous territories or adjacent islands. This means U.S. citizens calling on ports in Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica and Belize will also be exempt from the passport requirement.

U.S. citizens taking “closed-loop” cruises are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) as well as a government-issued photo ID

[TPKeller]

Here's the quote from Carnival I cited above:

 

http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/EMB_travel_document.aspx

 

Recent guidance received from the Department of Homeland Security indicates the documentary requirements under WHTI for “closed loop” cruises are not limited to cruises that travel only to contiguous territories or adjacent islands. This means U.S. citizens calling on ports in Honduras, Panama, Costa Rica and Belize will also be exempt from the passport requirement.

U.S. citizens taking “closed-loop” cruises are not required to have a passport, but will need proof of citizenship such as an original or certified copy of a birth certificate, a certificate of naturalization, a passport card, an enhanced driver’s license (EDL) as well as a government-issued photo ID

Thanks for the additional information. None of this gives me warm fuzzies. I sure wish we had more competence in our government agencies.

 

Theron

[cherylandtk]

Theron,

I agree with what njhorseman said about WHTI countries vs. Western Hemisphere vs. Caribbean. It may help to remember that the Caribbean Region and its set of special rules started out years ago when no special documentation was required to travel there; that is where the whole set of adjacent islands and contiguous countries list came from.

 

The WHTI and the passport card expanded the allowable travel area to the entire Western Hemisphere, but further tightened the document requirements. However, the AICC list, the Caribbean countries list and the old memories still exist. Causing confusion.

 

To add to that confusion, some lame-brained TA published their version of reading the rules and sent out a boatload of emails to clients earlier this year saying Belize trips required a passport as of March 6 of this year. Belize didn't and the TA, naturally, never bothered to send out an update or correction.

 

LBNL, Princess, on their documentation page, says Central America cruises must have a passport. Princess currently does not go to Belize, but they do stop in Honduras. However, Princess lists that cruise under its Caribbean grouping, so they don't consider it a Central American destination. This just creates more confusion by mislabeling countries geographically.

 

I wonder if all these little slips are not just Freudian in nature; the travel suppliers would really rather we all have passports. But it was these selfsame travel suppliers that howled the loudest when the original WHTI rules read that way.

[Travelcat2]

I must agree with those who suggest a new thread with information relating to passports as laws have changed. What I do not understand is the anger and hostility. For those of us that have traveled internationally and are familiar with when we need a passport, when a photo identification (i.e. drivers' license) is sufficient, etc. seem to be trying to share information with some people who do not wish to hear it.

 

There are a few basic facts. First, having a passport is the best form of identification (not going to get into Nexus, iris scanning, GOES, etc. as you need a passport to even begin the process to obtain these cards). Second, depending upon the cruise line and itinerary, it is very possible that your passport will be taken when you board the ship as your passport information is required prior to entering certain countries.

 

When we go ashore, we have a photo identification and a copy of our passport. We do this in every country - whether or not it is required. This does not mean you should do it as everyone can do as they please.

 

As a side note, we will not travel without our passport. When stuck in Hawaii due to weather on the mainland, we could have flown into Vancouver, BC IF we had our passport with us (unfortunately we did not). Lesson learned.

 

It does not matter who is right. None of us want to end up being denied boarding on a ship, an airplane or entrance into a country. That is one way to ruin a vacation.

[Shorex]

This is just a data point on processing times. I sent in our passports for additional visa pages before the price increase took effect. The passports were received at the passport agency in DC on Monday the 12th, (just before the price increase on the 13th) and the passports arrived back on the west coast today, Friday the 16th. We had paid for expedited processing because of an international trip coming up early in August.

 

Factors to keep in mind:

This service was merely for extra visa pages, not for a new or renewed passport

The checks cleared our bank account on Tuesday

We could track the processing progress on the passport bureau website on Tuesday

We paid for expedited processing and overnight mail return

Even so, I am impressed by the quick turnaround time

 

YMMV

[slimshadey]

I'm doing a similar cruise next February and my travel agent assures me that I only need to travel with my drivers license and original birth certificate.

[smeyer418]

I'm doing a similar cruise next February and my travel agent assures me that I only need to travel with my drivers license and original birth certificate.

check to make sure with the cruise line. My TA told me I needed them for a rt to Bermuda...I didn't

Edited July 20, 2010 by smeyer418

[cruzin4our10th]

July 2011 I will be cruising with my family . . . and extended family on the Carnival Valor. Close loop cruise out of Miami. I read and re-read the goverments site and Carnival's and all other information I can find in regards to DL/BC. There are several in the with out passports, some are childern some have just expired. Due to cost (I know the $10 a month saying) they really would prefer to not layout $400+ for a family if not necessary. This cruise was paid by our father so this is definatley a once in a life time trip for them. We will be docking in half Moon Cay, St Thomas, San Juan & Grand Turk. I did this exact itinerary in July 2008 and was only asked for my daughters birth certificates but that was before rules changing in June of 2009. I am not asking if a passport is the best thing to have, because I know it is . . . I just need to know if we can make due with DL/BC for this cruise? Thanks!

[njhorseman]

July 2011 I will be cruising with my family . . . and extended family on the Carnival Valor. Close loop cruise out of Miami. I read and re-read the goverments site and Carnival's and all other information I can find in regards to DL/BC. There are several in the with out passports, some are childern some have just expired. Due to cost (I know the $10 a month saying) they really would prefer to not layout $400+ for a family if not necessary. This cruise was paid by our father so this is definatley a once in a life time trip for them. We will be docking in half Moon Cay, St Thomas, San Juan & Grand Turk. I did this exact itinerary in July 2008 and was only asked for my daughters birth certificates but that was before rules changing in June of 2009. I am not asking if a passport is the best thing to have, because I know it is . . . I just need to know if we can make due with DL/BC for this cruise? Thanks!

 

Yes...for US citizens on closed loop cruises, an original or certified copy of your BC plus a government-issued photo ID such as a DL is sufficient. (note: Children under the age of 16 do not need a photo ID. The BC is sufficient.) Here's the explanation from DHS:

 

http://www.getyouhome.gov/html/lang_eng/eng_sa.html

 

"Closed Loop" Cruises: U.S. citizens who board a cruise ship at a port within the United States, travel only within the Western Hemisphere, and return to the same U.S. port on the same ship may present a government issued photo identification, along with proof of citizenship (an original or copy of his or her birth certificate, a Consular report of Birth Abroad, or a Certificate of Naturalization). Please be aware that you may still be required to present a passport to enter the foreign countries your cruise ship is visiting. Check with your cruise line to ensure you have the appropriate documents.

Edited July 28, 2010 by njhorseman

[cruzin4our10th]

Thanks njhorseman . . . I read that as well and is what I thought but you know the government site's make it clear as mud. I shouldn't say that but there are some many links the first one you click on is a table showing cruising to caribbean/mexico requires passport or passport card. I see farther down the page that there are exceptions which take you to the same page you attached. Again thanks . . . I'm stressing and I'm not the one without a passport:eek:

[texreno]

Don't know what cruise line you're sailing or if this helps. We had a group of 54 with 10 not having a passport and the photo ID & BC were OK for the Feb. 2010 sailing our of Galveston to Mexico & Honduras on Voyager.

[cruzin4our10th]

Thanks ~ we're sailing Carnival, although I'm sure it should be the same, they don't want to turn people away anymore than the next line. Like I said we did this same cruise in 2008 and my girls didn't have passports and it was never an issue. I'm more concerned this time because neither of my sisters really can afford the extra cash for passports for 4. Of course they will if necessary but that doesn't seem to be the issue.

[TPKeller]

Like I said we did this same cruise in 2008 and my girls didn't have passports and it was never an issue.

All other facts aside, and from what you've posted, it seems everything will be fine... 2008 is a world away from today. There are new laws in place, so anything you experienced prior to June/July of 2009 is not applicable.

 

Theron

[Travelcat2]

I agree that this closed loop cruise will not require a passport (unless they change the laws once again). What I am extremely concerned about is the repeated posting of misinformation about the "Western Hemisphere". The reason I am concerned is that if you believe that, you might also believe that you can go to the following countries without a passport (all within the Western Hemisphere):

 

• Algeria
  
• American Samoa (United States)
  
• Burkina Faso
  
• Cape Verde
  
• Cook Islands (New Zealand)
  
• Faeroe Islands (Denmark)
  
• Fiji
  
• France
  (but some territories and possessions of France, namely, French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Clipperton Island, and Saint Pierre and Miquelon lie entirely within the Americas)
  
• French Polynesia (France)
  
• Gambia
  
• Ghana
  
• Guinea
  
• Guinea-Bissau
  
• Iceland
  
• Ireland
  
• Ivory Coast
  
• Kiribati
  
• Liberia
  
• Mali
  
• Mauritania
  
• Morocco
  
• Niue (New Zealand)
  
• Pitcairn Island (United Kingdom)
  
• Portugal
  
• Samoa
  
• Senegal
  
• Sierra Leone
  
• Spain
  
• Togo
  
• Tokelau (New Zealand)
  
• Tonga
  
• Tuvalu
  
• United Kingdom
  
• Wallis and Futuna (France)
  
• Western Sahara
  

Unless you want to risk refused entry into a a country, please check with your TA, the cruise line you are sailing on and at least one other source prior to assuming it is okay to have a birth certificate and drivers' license (unless you have a passport. . . . and, in many cases, a visa)

[njhorseman]

I agree that this closed loop cruise will not require a passport (unless they change the laws once again). What I am extremely concerned about is the repeated posting of misinformation about the "Western Hemisphere". The reason I am concerned is that if you believe that, you might also believe that you can go to the following countries without a passport (all within the Western Hemisphere):

 

• Algeria
  
• American Samoa (United States)
  
• Burkina Faso
  
• Cape Verde
  
• Cook Islands (New Zealand)
  
• Faeroe Islands (Denmark)
  
• Fiji
  
• France
  (but some territories and possessions of France, namely, French Guiana, Guadeloupe, Martinique, Clipperton Island, and Saint Pierre and Miquelon lie entirely within the Americas)
  
• French Polynesia (France)
  
• Gambia
  
• Ghana
  
• Guinea
  
• Guinea-Bissau
  
• Iceland
  
• Ireland
  
• Ivory Coast
  
• Kiribati
  
• Liberia
  
• Mali
  
• Mauritania
  
• Morocco
  
• Niue (New Zealand)
  
• Pitcairn Island (United Kingdom)
  
• Portugal
  
• Samoa
  
• Senegal
  
• Sierra Leone
  
• Spain
  
• Togo
  
• Tokelau (New Zealand)
  
• Tonga
  
• Tuvalu
  
• United Kingdom
  
• Wallis and Futuna (France)
  
• Western Sahara
  

Unless you want to risk refused entry into a a country, please check with your TA, the cruise line you are sailing on and at least one other source prior to assuming it is okay to have a birth certificate and drivers' license (unless you have a passport. . . . and, in many cases, a visa)

 

You've copied a list of countries given at the bottom of a Wikipedia article without reference to the context of how that list was determined. The list is based on an arbitrary and uncommon definition of the Western Hemisphere as the half of the globe defined by starting at the Prime Meridian and going 180 degrees west from there. In fact the more common definition of Western Hemisphere is provided in the second sentence of the article:

 

" It is also used to specifically refer to the Americas (or the New World) and adjacent waters, while excluding other territories that lie geographical in the hemisphere (parts of Africa, Europe, Antarctica, and Asia); thus, it is sometimes referred to as the American hemisphere.[4]"

 

It's very clear from reading the definitions of Western Hemisphere and Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative published by the US government that The "Western Hemisphere" they are referring to is based on the definition given in red above.

Edited July 28, 2010 by njhorseman

[TPKeller]

You'd also be pretty hard-pressed to find a Closed Loop cruise from a US port that hits those countries.

 

Internet message boards are great places to gather information, but you'd have to be an idiot to base your travel preparation decisions entirely on what you read here or any other message board.

 

The information you find here is often right, but at best it should only give you a basis from which to start your own independent confirmation process.

 

Theron