Alitalia news: auction collapses, government mulls options

[ab0si]

The Italian aviation authority has extended Alitalia's license through (Or until, my Italian prepositions aren't all that strong) 15 Oct.

 

The above is fact; the following is my guess:

 

there will be enough of the remains of the airline saved so that everyone's favorite media mongrel (sic) cum P.M. can claim victory.

[Globaliser]

mongrel (sic)

Was "monster" the word you were looking for? :D

 

So he's got three weeks to strong-arm the pilots and cabin crew into getting on board. Reading some of the stuff that some pilots are writing on PPRuNe, I still wouldn't bury the fat lady yet.

[ab0si]

Was "monster" the word you were looking for? :D

 

So he's got three weeks to strong-arm the pilots and cabin crew into getting on board. Reading some of the stuff that some pilots are writing on PPRuNe, I still wouldn't bury the fat lady yet.

 

Are you accusing me of being unfair to mixed bread dogs? If so, I will accuse you of being unfair trolls and Grendel.

 

The stuff on PPRuNe (Professional Pilots Rumo(u)r Net for those who want to know) is fun readling.. in a very black homo(u)r sort of way.

 

The old communist union has signed or not signed. The pilots have agreed but not signed. Or maybe kind of agreed, perhaps, sort of.

 

My solution: BA pulls out of the Iberia deal. Iberia, Alitalia and Olympic combine their assets (the net told should be around a minus 2,000,000,000 euros) and offer to become easyJet's and Ryan's air customer service departments. They can hire USAir's Parker to improve employee relations call themselves an Investment Bank and get some of the $700B for their bad debts.

 

Seems simple enough.

[Globaliser]

My solution: BA pulls out of the Iberia deal. Iberia, Alitalia and Olympic combine their assets (the net told should be around a minus 2,000,000,000 euros) and offer to become easyJet's and Ryan's air customer service departments. They can hire USAir's Parker to improve employee relations call themselves an Investment Bank and get some of the $700B for their bad debts.

I like the thinking. :)

[want2cruiseagain]

I have not kept up with this thread and only read the last few posts. My DH said he read that Canada may come in to help Alitalia. We have a friend who is a senior pilot for Alitalia. He said that companies, in his words (with Italian accent, of course) "tells us beautiful things, but we do not know who to believe". He feels all will work out, but if not, he is close to retirement age and his pension is secure.

[sqwidge]

Hi i revieved my cruise documents over the weekend, and started to do the doc dance. Then i realised that my flights were with Alitalia (Booked with a fly cruise package through Carnival in the UK). I e-mailed Carnival this morning and got this swift response back.

 

From: AdministrationUK (CCL-UK)

 

To: Lee Dymond

 

Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 11:26 AM

 

Subject: RE: Documents

 

Hi

 

Your flights are fine Alitalia are still flying but if anything happens you will be put on a new flight and will be contacted

Thanks

Connie (administration)

From: Lee Dymond

Sent: 29 September 2008 10:57

To: AdministrationUK (CCL-UK)

Subject: Re: Documents

Hi I have recieved ny documents for our cruise today and have noticed that our flight are with Alitalia, on the 17th Oct.

 

 

I have read in the newspaperes recently that Alitalia only have sufficient funds to continue to fly until the 15th Oct., and may cease trading. I just wondered how this would affect us and what would happen if Alitalia did cease to trade and as a result were unable to provide us with our flihgts to Rome.

 

 

Many regards Lee

 

[FlyerTalker]

My solution: BA pulls out of the Iberia deal. Iberia, Alitalia and Olympic combine their assets (the net told should be around a minus 2,000,000,000 euros) and offer to become easyJet's and Ryan's air customer service departments. They can hire USAir's Parker to improve employee relations call themselves an Investment Bank and get some of the $700B for their bad debts.

 

You might just have a career in politics if Wall Street isn't appealing enough.

 

Continuing your thoughts....having secured their financial future, they will build upon their merger success by acquiring other prime aviation assets. Among these include Aerolineas Argentinas, Air Zimbabwe, and Garuda. Looking back on the success of Air Afrique, the new airline, IbItalOUs (commonly pronounced on the Street as "I bite all of us") will look toward the prosperous market for frequent shorthaul flights between major population centers in sub-Saharan Africa. Airline president Parker will announce "There are millions on millions of people there, who only need the availability of our friendly, frequent services to become active flyers on our airline. The growth potential is huge."

 

Representatives of North Korea's Air Koryu will decline comment on rumors that they will accept the new airline's offer to become a code-share partner for winter vacation flights to Pyongyang.

[skf]

I hope that Air Koryu doesn't buy out Air Inuit. I don't think hunters going to Port Menier would care (or dare) to change planes in North Korea.

Steve

[Globaliser]

Some hard news today, which will cheer up many CC members, reported by the BBC:-

Unions backing Alitalia rescue

 

A 1bn-euro (£800m; $1.45bn) bail-out of Italian airline Alitalia has won the support of the last two unions who had been opposing the deal.

 

The support for the rescue package could help clear the way for a relaunch of Italy's flag carrier.

 

The airline had appeared doomed to liquidation until the rescue emerged.

 

Last week, the Italian civil aviation authority, ENAC, agreed not to revoke Alitalia's licence to fly after a revised rescue plan was approved.

 

The SDL and AVIA unions, which represent cabin crew and ground staff had opposed the plan.

 

However, they have now followed the example of the airline's pilots and changed their minds.

 

...

Personal view: *$^%#&! But this is Italy.

 

However, on an objective basis it is worth warning that the rescue plan may involve many route changes, so it is not yet time to forget about the problems entirely.

[FlyerTalker]

One of the big problems facing AZ in terms of routings/operations was the duplication of hub services. You had hubbing in Rome (capital) and Milan (business center) and the splitting of Milan service between Linate (small but convenient) and Malpensa (capable, but 50km from downtown). AZ decided to downsize the MXP hub in favor of FCO - perhaps not the best decision.

 

AZ needs to rationalize its route structure and get its labor situation in hand. Good management can likely do the former, but it is not certain if any Italian since Mussolini has the strength, patience and will to do the latter.

 

Overall, I'm amazed that the pilot and FA unions at AZ didn't follow the example of the Eastern Airlines machinists - loudly proclaiming "Full pay til the last day". Maybe there is some hope yet (though I'm not wagering anything on it).

[Globaliser]

One of the big problems facing AZ in terms of routings/operations was the duplication of hub services. You had hubbing in Rome (capital) and Milan (business center) and the splitting of Milan service between Linate (small but convenient) and Malpensa (capable, but 50km from downtown). AZ decided to downsize the MXP hub in favor of FCO - perhaps not the best decision.

Part of this was not of AZ's making, but part of it definitely was.

 

LIN was too good an asset to shut down, just as LCY is finally becoming well-recognised and loved here. But the result was that MXP just became a real irritation to Milan O&D passengers. There really was some merit in the approach that Dallas undertook of forcing the relocation of services when DFW was opened. What AZ saw was that MIL O&D pax would prefer to hub at AMS, CDG or FRA rather than haul out to MXP. That was a market behaviour problem which I don't think can really be laid at AZ's feet.

 

However, the business of maintaining an FCO hub, and also the union-demanded practices of maintaining a crew base only at FCO, so that every MXP-based service had to be operated by crew commuting (on company time and at company expense) from FCO was definitely an AZ problem. That was a nettle which it failed to grasp, although it must surely do so now, along with many other nettles.

Overall, I'm amazed that the pilot and FA unions at AZ didn't follow the example of the Eastern Airlines machinists - loudly proclaiming "Full pay til the last day".

I have to say that this is what I was expecting. And it is the message that their unions were delivering at the time of the original CAI withdrawal. What a pity that they didn't have the guts to stick with it! :)

[jeef_boner]

Our flight made it. Was funny when we realised the girls doing the flight check-in on the ground doubled as the stewards in the air - guess they'd cancelled their groundside contract in the UK to save costs.

 

Glad I could get some info on here - easiest way to check everything in one spot rather than go for the 'google Alitalia' option.

[Globaliser]

Was funny when we realised the girls doing the flight check-in on the ground doubled as the stewards in the air - guess they'd cancelled their groundside contract in the UK to save costs.

That's actually quite common now everywhere. A good reason to be polite and friendly to whoever's doing the boarding pass check at the gate. Well, there are no reasons not to be polite and friendly to any airline staff, but you know what I mean.

[MMDown Under]

Does anyone know what the current situation with Alitalia is? I have a friend due to fly home from Roma next month with Alitalia.

[M@A]

Does anyone know what the current situation with Alitalia is? I have a friend due to fly home from Roma next month with Alitalia.

 

I follow the situation closely, as I have tickets too. It looks like the crisis has passed. Definitely funded through November, and in discussions with other airlines who wish to invest.

 

Best regards,

 

Jake

[MMDown Under]

I follow the situation closely, as I have tickets too. It looks like the crisis has passed. Definitely funded through November, and in discussions with other airlines who wish to invest.

 

Best regards,

 

Jake

 

Thanks for that good news for my friend at least.

 

Hope your flight is OK.

[lb0103]

We HAD round trip tickets on Alitalia and we leave on Mon 10/27 from Bos to FCO. That flight is still a go as of now. Our TA called to tell us our return on 11/12 was cancel and as we booked cruise air with RCL we were booked on a Delta flight for the return. Not a nonstop but as it is not costing us extra and it gets us where we want to be it is OK with us.

 

I was told due to Alitalia's "problems" they were canceling flights on slow days and I guess Wed is a slow day. We did good by booking the air with the cruise lines this time.

[hcat]

This thread has been a big help-- so many thanks to all previous posters...

 

we are trying to book for Sept 2009 JFK to FCO ...best price was on Alitalia versus Delta (unaffordable for us at the moment) but it is not worth the risk esp. with the economy & so far out from flight date... but if Delta stays so high at about 1400 pp we will have to cancel our cruise out of Cv

 

any suggestions?

[FlyerTalker]

At this point, my 2 lira worth:

 

Given the restructuring, and the agreement of unions to work towards a new carrier, I would not worry about AZ tickets for next year. There is too much interest in having a piece of the Italian pie (AF vs LH) that one of the two (or an equally strong mid-east carrier) will be a business partner to make sure that the new carrier is solvent and effective.

 

As for not purchasing because of the "risk" - recognize that you are helping to increase that "risk" by not buying tickets. If AZ doesn't have the bookings going forward, schedules may be reduced, resulting in the very shrinkage that you're worried about in the first place. And reduced capacity to Italy will make for higher prices (constant demand with reduced supply - Econ 101).

[want2cruiseagain]

My DH just got text message from our senior pilot friend at Alitalia. They plan to shut down next month. He states he will retire.

[keltic]

My solution: BA pulls out of the Iberia deal. Iberia, Alitalia and Olympic combine their assets (the net told should be around a minus 2,000,000,000 euros) and offer to become easyJet's and Ryan's air customer service departments. They can hire USAir's Parker to improve employee relations call themselves an Investment Bank and get some of the $700B for their bad debts.

 

Seems simple enough.

 

I don´t simply see any connection, between Olympic, Alitalia or Iberia (appart from the fact of sharing the PIGS joke). The best think for us (Spaniards) would be Iberia to close down. But we can´t get rid of it so quickly. The main difference with the other two, is that Iberia is a fully private airline, whose turnover may be healthier than BAs.

[Globaliser]

My DH just got text message from our senior pilot friend at Alitalia. They plan to shut down next month. He states he will retire.

And it looks like this has come one step closer. No surprise that it's the pilots and cabin crew again. Reuters reports:-

Alitalia pilots, flight crew to strike Nov. 25

 

Fri Nov 7, 2008 1:47pm EST

 

ROME, Nov 7 (Reuters) - Five unions representing Alitalia's (AZPIa.MI: Quote, Profile, Research, Stock Buzz) pilots and flight assistants said they would strike for one day on Nov. 25 in protest at a takeover of the ailing airline by an Italian investor group.

 

They also asked for an urgent meeting with the CAI group of businessmen who have made the bid.

 

The unions have rejected new labour contracts offered by CAI, refusing to join other key labour groups that have backed the takeover deal.

 

CAI has decided to press ahead with its bid anyway, offering to pay 375 million euros for the bankrupt carrier's assets and take on debt worth 675 million euros.

 

The consortium of top Italian businessmen was the only group bidding in Alitalia's third attempt at a sale and made a binding offer for the assets last week.

 

The five unions which have rejected the offer complain that the new job contracts discriminate against mothers with small children or employees with handicapped family members. CAI denies the accusations and has said it will approach pilots and flight staff directly to offer them a job.

 

The takeover offer is subject to approval by Alitalia's bankruptcy commissioner, who hopes to wrap up the sale by mid-November, since the airline's cash reserves are expected to last only a few more weeks.

 

...

[ab0si]

The friendly skies of Alitalia continue to be interesting. The pilot and cabin attendant unions have announced 15 strikes between 25 Nov and 26 May (inclusive-- not to worry, this is only 14 additional ones to the previously announced 25 Nov strike). Also 17 (or more) flights were cancelled today due to wildcat labor action.

 

Free advice (and overpriced at that):

Anyone who allows a cruise company to choose their flights to Europe deserves to be booked on an Alitalia flight on strike day.

Anyone who chooses a flight based solely on price deserves Alitalia with connections on Ryan Air and Iberia (oh, ok, I overdid that one).

[Maedy]

Alitalia and crew members are on strike since Nov. 10th and today. Big mess on Italian Airports. Travellers had to sleep on the airports.

[librarygirl]

Got booked for return flight on Alitalia from Rome to Toronto AZ 650 on Nov 8th. What a horribleway to end a lovely 2 wk cruise of E. Med. with Azamara Quest. Flight was supposed to leave at 11:50 orig. but was changed to 10:05 and didn't actually fly until around 11:30 a.m. We bought the cruise with Cru Con which included air fare.

 

Crew were obviously extremely unhappy, made sure they did the basic food service but were not checking if everyone had their seatbelts fastened when belt sign was lit. Also when everyone was lined up for the toilet and seat belt sign came on for obvious turbulence, crew stayed in the rear and these passengers could have been bouncing off the ceiling and they wouldn't have moved. This exhibited a lack of concern about the security of all passengers and one certainly felt that the hatred and anger created by the union's situation was extended to all of us on that flight.

 

Crew stayed to the rear for the entire flight and when 1 of the 3 toilets was out of order, a blonde female crew member came out to yell at the line up of 10 passengers that they should be lining up on the other aisle since that toilet was no longer flushing. She also marched up the aisle to yell (literally) "Close the windows" as the movie came on the screen. The Italian movie with subtitles was so good, they just stuck it on for a second time. We did laugh, we needed some humour in the grim scenario.

 

At the end of the flight, the cabin crew continued to hide and the exit of the passengers was watched only by the flight crew.

 

One Italian gentleman was very embarrassed and told me that even tho' he was Italian, he felt that that now after so many years of poor service, it maybe was time that the company did disappear and go bankrupt.

 

Unfortunately, the behaviour of the cabin crew left all of us feeling the same way.

 

I would have paid more for a pleasant and safe flight home.... without a doubt. If only I would have known.