Finally The Truth on Crown Missing Bonaire -Jan 23rd

[nrdsb4]

Is the captain to blame for this argument? Yes. All he had to do was say that the ship has been bumped from it's normal pier to the north pier by the port authority. The north pier is to small of a pier to to safly dock and unload passangers from a ship the size of the crown. So with deep regret we cannot dock for the safty of the passangers and ship. Also to the people that think the captain does not owe a explaination to the passagers I think you are wrong. You are paying for a service when you do not get you should be explained why not . I feel that had it been explained the op would not of had a problem and this thread would not of been started. On my last cruise we were to of docked at St Lucia. We were told that we would have to tender in because there were more ships in the port and they got our dock spot because they go to the island more often that the Emerald. This case everyone was explained why no bad comments about the captain or Princess. All it is lack of communacation. P.S. Princess had another ship that was docked at the pier and they sent some of there tender ships to help tender passangers to and from the island. I feel that was great of them to do that.

 

Then you would have passengers arguing with that and demanding "proof" that it really was unsafe/not doable when they know for a fact that "Ship X" did it last week and is the same size, etc.

 

I have never understood some peoples' rabid demands for detailed explanations for missing a port. It doesn't change a thing...you're not going. That's just my personality, though. I would NEVER be willing to expend this much energy on something like this. I'm on to the next thing in life.

[Coral]

Also to the people that think the captain does not owe a explaination to the passagers I think you are wrong. You are paying for a service when you do not get you should be explained why not .

 

The "cruise contract" that we all agree to before we cruise says that the ship can skip ports with no explanation necessary. Since we all agree to this before we cruise, why do you think that we are "wrong". It is a legal document that we agree to. It doesn't matter if we think his decision or explanation is good enough or right or wrong, we really don't have a choice on this according to the contract that we sign.

[Colo Cruiser]

Is the captain to blame for this argument? Yes. All he had to do was say that the ship has been bumped from it's normal pier to the north pier by the port authority. The north pier is to small of a pier to to safly dock and unload passangers from a ship the size of the crown. So with deep regret we cannot dock for the safty of the passangers and ship. Also to the people that think the captain does not owe a explaination to the passagers I think you are wrong. You are paying for a service when you do not get you should be explained why not . I feel that had it been explained the op would not of had a problem and this thread would not of been started. On my last cruise we were to of docked at St Lucia. We were told that we would have to tender in because there were more ships in the port and they got our dock spot because they go to the island more often that the Emerald. This case everyone was explained why no bad comments about the captain or Princess. All it is lack of communacation. P.S. Princess had another ship that was docked at the pier and they sent some of there tender ships to help tender passangers to and from the island. I feel that was great of them to do that.

 

 

 

How do you know what the Captain did?

You were not there and neither was I, so get the whole story before condeming someone. Right now it is hearsay. :rolleyes:

[woodmaster]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

[pudgy]

The "cruise contract" that we all agree to before we cruise says that the ship can skip ports with no explanation necessary. Since we all agree to this before we cruise, why do you think that we are "wrong". It is a legal document that we agree to. It doesn't matter if we think his decision or explanation is good enough or right or wrong, we really don't have a choice on this according to the contract that we sign.

 

Totally agree I signed the the contract that says he can do what ever he wants with out having to explain himself to the paying passangers. Do I feel that it is wrong I do. Will I keep on cruising with Princess. You bet. A little explaination does not hurt and it can clear up alot of things.

[woodmaster]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

[B40 Tha Cruisa]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

 

There really is no issue here. The captain said it was due to port congestion- and it was. Even if he told the whole truth, people still wouldn't believe it.

[Colo Cruiser]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

 

 

Once again someone is assuming without hearing all sides.

 

How do you know what was said and what wasn't??

 

You are also assuming that people don't feel bad about missing ports etc.

 

There is feeling bad and then there is being obsessed.

[RSWBADGER]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

 

I believe this has done, this is from a Bonaire blogger on 1/28/2008 who was quoted the Crown Princess was diverted because there was no room in port. The Princess captain explained to the passengers the reason was "port congestion".

 

By George Blanchard (Experienced BonaireTalker - Post #296) on Monday, January 28, 2008 - 3:52 pm: Tad, we spoke to many residents, merchants, and friends while on Island and found NOBODY in favor of the cruise ships. All have a concern that the Bonaire way of life is going to change and they may become another Aruba or St. Marten. We were told that Europeon passengers are driving the increase in cruise ships more than American. I do not know if that is a fact or just a rumor.

 

Note that they may change to Euros by this time next year. This too may influence the cruise industry. While we were there they had so many ships scheduled they had to divert the Crown Princess to Margarita Island because there was no room in port.

 

 

http://www.bonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/36/348703.html?1203770463

[pudgy]

Then you would have passengers arguing with that and demanding "proof" that it really was unsafe/not doable when they know for a fact that "Ship X" did it last week and is the same size, etc.

 

I have never understood some peoples' rabid demands for detailed explanations for missing a port. It doesn't change a thing...you're not going. That's just my personality, though. I would NEVER be willing to expend this much energy on something like this. I'm on to the next thing in life.

 

I agree some people would of still wanted more. But if he would of just said why that would of enformred people. He took the time to explain that the port was conjested why not say 15 more words to explain. I don't think that it would of been classified as a " peoples' rabid demands for detailed explanations for missing a port."

[B40 Tha Cruisa]

I have sat back and watched this thread, it would seem that none of you have ever felt bad when a port was missed. My take on this is that the OP just would have liked to been told the truth, does Princess have a legal obligation - No, would it kill the to keep the passengers in the loop with truthful information - No. If Princess has nothing to hide or protect themselves against, then what would it hurt to tell the passengers exactly what happened? For all other people telling the OP that he has spent to much time trying to get answers, they sure have spent a lot of time telling him to give up. A little common courtesy can go a long way in passenger relations.

 

There really is no issue here. The captain said it was due to port congestion, and it was. Even if he gave a detailed description people still would not be happy.

[Toto2Kansas]

To those of you that missed Bonaire and are upset. Here is what happened to us years ago, see if you think it falls in the same group?

 

We wanted to visit Christmas Island in the Pacific as we had been there before. Knowing that the ships had been missing this stop because of a storm that hit a few months previously, I actually contacted the port authority on Christmas Island to see if the storm damage had been repaired. It took a lot of doing to find out who to contact, but this is something we wanted to do badly enough that it was worth the effort. We exchanged several emails and I was informed all was ready for our ship to stop and that they had dredged the silt from the little harbor brought in my the storm and repaired the pier and were looking very forward to Princess topping again.

I also contacted Princess to enquire. This was a bit different as we knew there was a chance, because of weather, that this stop could be cancelled, but wanted to have all the info we could to be prepared, as not stopping meant 5 sea days each way on this voyage.

 

We were sailing Hawaii to Tahiti, but decided to book it back to back, in case on the first leg the weather might prevent us from stopping. There were 5 sea days between Hawaii and Tahiti IF the Christmas Island stop was cancelled and we honestly weren't wanting 5 days at sea but knew it was a possibility if this stop was cancelled.

 

Flash forward to the day prior to the cruise. I called Princess again, at my DH's request, to see if Christmas Island was still on the schedule IF the sea condions premitted. Yes, for the 3rd or 4th time I was told it was.

 

We sail out of Hawaii and get to Christmas Island and watch the first tender going ashore empty. It returns and an announcement is made that they are not allowing us to go ashore, as even though the pier was repaired, they didn't want to take the tenders through the added silt brought on by the previous storm (many months prior). (Now, I had been told by the port authority that this silt had all been dredged and everything was just as it was before the storm).

 

Now keep in mind, I had copies of the emails with me from Christmas Island. Hummmmmmmmm, this is getting quite interesting!

 

Unhappy about this, I spoke to the second officer about it onboard. While I was sitting in his office, he tried to tell me what a nasty place Christmas Island was and that we wouldn't want to stop there anyway, he seemed to think he was being very cute about all of this and laughed at me when I told him that we really were disappointed in this port being cancelled. He then asked "have YOU ever been to Christmas Island before, as if you had you would know what I am talking about when it comes to not being worth the trouble to tender in?" When I answered yes, a few years ago, his mouth dropped open. I explained to him that we had been here before and were really looking forward to a return as we thought it was so fascinating. That we had actually packed things in our luggage for the children there as we knew the conditions they were living in. He tried again to explain about the silt build up in the harbor, yadda yadda yadda. THEN, I handed him the emails from Christmas Island explaining how the harbor had been dredged and everything was back to normal. OMG, his face turned all red and he was at a loss for words. Our conversation then ended abruptly and he asked me to leave his office, and for the rest of the cruise, he avoided me like the plague.

 

We arrive in Tahiti and as we are getting ready to set sail back to Hawaii a letter is delivered to ALL passengers telling that the stop at Christmas Island was cancelled for the return.

 

Ticked off? You bet cha that us, and the rest of the passengers were not happy about this situation. But, there wasn't a darned thing we could do about it.

 

What this goes to show is that any port can be cancelled, for any reason, and they are not going to explain to the passengers why.

Was someone not being truthful here? Yes, someone was telling a whopper, but who was it? The second officer, the port authority? We will never know and I never did try to find out. Once off the ship, nothing we were going to do would bring back our dream of stopping again at Christmas Island.

 

So, one port in the Caribbean ticked you off and you are going to avoid Princess from this day forward. Your choice, lots of other cruise lines to choose from. But it isn't going to be any different on another line. They have the right to Cancel or change ports for any reason. Personally, I had wished there was another island out in the middle of the Pacific we could have gone to instead of Christmas Island. Instead, we just had 5 sea days in a row coming and going.

 

The chance of us returning to the Pacific and visiting Christmas Island is probably slim to none now as my DH doesn't want to chance another 5 days at sea (just not a sea day kind of guy). But with Bonaire, it is on many itinearys and you have a very good chance of visiting sometime in the future if you ever again cruise the caribbean.

[anoaklawnguy]

Hey Salty Dog! I want you all to know that I was on the Celebrity Summit the day The Crown Princess was supposed to dock with us in Bonaire. I want you all to know that we were the only ship there that day. There appeared to be no "congestion" as stated. In fact it was rather quiet on the island as well. I saw no reason for the Crown not to have docked as orginally intended. Salty please feel free to post the pics that I sent you of just the Summit and no other ships there. I do not mind in the least.

 

Take care and safe journies!

[anoaklawnguy]

Hey Salty Dog! I want you all to know that I was on the Celebrity Summit the day The Crown Princess was supposed to dock with us in Bonaire. I want you all to know that we were the only ship there that day. There appeared to be no "congestion" as stated. In fact it was rather quiet on the island as well. I saw no reason for the Crown not to have docked as orginally intended. Salty please feel free to post the pics that I sent you of just the Summit and no other ships there. I do not mind in the least.

 

Take care and safe journies!

[woodmaster]

I have questioned persons of authority and I would be amazed if most all of you had not done the same at some point. I am truly sorry that some are upset that others would have the gall to question what was told to them by the captain. Yes, I do not know what he said, but would I automatically accept it? - no. Can I change what happened? - no. There are a lot of things said and done by people in authority that are absolute lies, congressmen, police, and yes possibly captains. I really feel bad for the OP as to the way he has been treated in this thread. I feel that he was looking to vent some frustration, and for the most part all he got was attacked for questioning Princess.

[woodmaster]

sorry duplicate post

[woodmaster]

Sorry , Sorry, Sorry

[Coral]

I have questioned persons of authority and I would be amazed if most all of you had not done the same at some point. I am truly sorry that some are upset that others would have the gall to question what was told to them by the captain. Yes, I do not know what he said, but would I automatically accept it? - no. Can I change what happened? - no. There are a lot of things said and done by people in authority that are absolute lies, congressmen, police, and yes possibly captains. I really feel bad for the OP as to the way he has been treated in this thread. I feel that he was looking to vent some frustration, and for the most part all he got was attacked for questioning Princess.

 

I have absolutely no problems with questioning authority to those who are accountable to us.

 

But, questioning Princess on this is not worth the time. We actually don't have any rights in where the cruise ship goes. This is in the contract. This is one of the things we have to accept about cruising - ports may be substituted. If a port is that important to someone, they really should do a land vacation.

[woodmaster]

I have absolutely no problems with questioning authority to those who are accountable to us.

 

But, questioning Princess on this is not worth the time. We actually don't have any rights in where the cruise ship goes. This is in the contract. This is one of the things we have to accept about cruising - ports may be substituted. If a port is that important to someone, they really should do a land vacation.

 

True there is a contract. But we do still have rights. My rights begin with my money and end with my choice. Princess is under no obligation to give me an answer, but in the same sense, I am not under any obligation to support them. With competition comes choice. I have not been treated ny Princess as the Op was, therefore I will sail with them in April. But we all still have rights, the right to chose.

[nrdsb4]

I just don't get it. What difference does it make if you miss the port due to "port congestion" or due to the captain deciding that he thinks the port option given him is not in best interest of his passengers' safety (and subsequently he interprets this and verbalizes it as "port congestion")? How does that change the situation? Does one scenario make it more palatable to miss the port than the other? Either way, you're still not going!

 

Or does someone on this thread really think he skipped the port because he just didn't feel like parking it that day?!

 

You know, perhaps there was a day in my life when I would have stewed and stewed and freaking stewed over something like this as the OP has. But cancer has a way of making so few things seem worth getting upset over. Maybe putting things in perspective is a bad thing, as life is made up of little aggravations that we can't ignore. But at some point, doesn't there come a time when you really do need to not sweat the small stuff? You can be perfectly in the right about something, yet still let it go, right?

[Toto2Kansas]

I just don't get it. What difference does it make if you miss the port due to "port congestion" or due to the captain deciding that he thinks the port option given him is not in best interest of his passengers' safety (and subsequently he interprets this and verbalizes it as "port congestion")? How does that change the situation? Does one scenario make it more palatable to miss the port than the other? Either way, you're still not going!

 

Or does someone on this thread really think he skipped the port because he just didn't feel like parking it that day?!

 

You know, perhaps there was a day in my life when I would have stewed and stewed and freaking stewed over something like this as the OP has. But cancer has a way of making so few things seem worth getting upset over. Maybe putting things in perspective is a bad thing, as life is made up of little aggravations that we can't ignore. But at some point, doesn't there come a time when you really do need to not sweat the small stuff? You can be perfectly in the right about something, yet still let it go, right?

 

Excellent advice!

[dot73]

You know, perhaps there was a day in my life when I would have stewed and stewed and freaking stewed over something like this as the OP has. But cancer has a way of making so few things seem worth getting upset over. Maybe putting things in perspective is a bad thing, as life is made up of little aggravations that we can't ignore. But at some point, doesn't there come a time when you really do need to not sweat the small stuff? You can be perfectly in the right about something, yet still let it go, right?

 

Being a Big C survivor, I know exactly what you mean. Life sucks sometimes, but it's still better than being six feet under.

Last year, I did my dream cruise to Tahiti. The islands that I most looked forward to seeing were the Marquesas and especially Hiva Oa where Gaugain (whose paintings I love) lived and was buried. We made it very close to island and the sea looked calm to me, however, because of currents, etc., the Captain decided that an attempt to stop there was not in the our best interest. Was I disappointed, you bet, and I did whine about it for about 15 minutes but life goes on and we did make it to Nuku Hiva, which was amazing. I plan one day to go back to French Polynesia and will try again to see Hiva Oa. I understand the OP's disappointment with missing an island that he was so looking forward to visiting and not being happy with the explanation he was given, which could have been more detailed. However, being obsessed and stressed about isn't going to make things any better. Bonaire is a divers/snorkellers' paradise and if the OP really wants to experience it fully, he should consider a land vacation there when he will be 100% sure to see it.

[RSWBADGER]

So what we have - the Crown has a DWT of 114,000, but the maximum for the north pier is 50,000. The crown has length overall (LOA) 910 and the north pier seems to want to set a maximum of 738.

 

It would appear that among the conditions the captain was being asked to accept was putting a ship that was over twice the maximum tonnage and 200 feet longer than what the specifications for the pier into that very pier. I don't know about you, but it sounds like things could very well get "congested" in that situation.

 

This is an excellent point to revisit, remember the Captain of the Crown Princess was asked to dock at the North Pier which is much shorter than main dock which was occupied by the Summit.

 

Here is a direct quote from Captain's Albert Weblog, Captain of the Holland America Veendam on a visit to Bonaire in December 2007, in regards to the North Pier. The Veendam tonnage is 55,451 and her lenght is 720 feet. The Crown's tonnage is 114,000 and lenght is 910 feet.

 

The north pier, which was our dock this time, is really much too small for the Veendam. Only about 60 meters of the ship rests against the fenders, the rest sticks out fore and aft. Because of that it is important to dock squarely against the dock with a gentle motion, as otherwise the bow or the stern will angle away. With the long lines given ashore a balance is then found and the ship rests for the remainder of the call against this small pier.

http://www.avidcruiser.com/albert/?p=300

 

The Captain of the Crown Princess made a wise decision.

[pudgy]

How do you know what the Captain did?

You were not there and neither was I, so get the whole story before condeming someone. Right now it is hearsay. :rolleyes:

 

 

 

I am sorry were did I say the "captain did" anything. And as you point out i nor you were on the ship so I was going by the people that were and the article. As for me "condeming someone" all I did was question why he would not explain it a little better.

[zacc]

Just a guess but I think the horse everyone is still beating may be dead by now! Life goes on.