Finally The Truth on Crown Missing Bonaire -Jan 23rd

[Salty Dawg]

Hi All,

 

At last I think we got a truthful answer as to why the Crown canceled Bonaire on January 23rd. The email is in response to one I sent to TourismBonaire, which is the official website of Bonaire. I have blanked out the name from Tourism Bonaire to avoid any repercussions to the sender, but I can tell you that the person is an official spokesperson of that governmental agency.

 

"Port Congestion" was the reason the Captain gave to us for missing Bonaire. "Port Congestion" my sweet posterior. Captain Pinocchio is not only true to his nickname, but also turns out to be known by another name, Captain Tuna, you know, "The Chicken of the Sea".

 

Did Princess really think that it's passengers are that stupid as to not figure out their deceptions???

 

Princess credibility is now ZERO in my book.

 

The issue here is not whether Princess can cancel or substitute ports of call. I know they can do so, according to the cruise contract. It is, however, an issue of truthfulness and being forthcoming to their passengers.

 

I have edited the emails that follow to reflect CC policy on not allowing email addresses and to protect identities.

 

BTW, the Crown Princess did dock with the Summit on February 6th & 20th in Bonaire. Perhaps the dissatisfaction of the passengers on the January 23rd cruise made the Captain rethink his priorities.

 

Ken

 

This is the email reply we received, and our original email below that.

 

From: ****************

To:'tourismbonaire' ; *****************

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:29 PM

Subject: RE: Question on Cruise Ship Cancellation

 

Nice to notice that cruise passengers are looking forward to visit Bonaire.

The reason Crown Princess cancelled January 23rd call was: That the master of the vessel didn't want to dock at Kralendijk north pier, or stay adrift and tender his passengers. Princess than decided to cancel Bonaire and visit Margarita instead.

The first reaction of most crewmembers of the Crown (including the master) on the next call was: That they missed Bonaire very much.

 

 

Dear Mr. and Mrs. *********.

Thank you for your email. We appreciate your wish to visit our island and enjoy what we have to offer. At the same time, we regret the fact that you were not able to visit during your last cruise vacation!

 

After confirming with the Harbor Master, we can confirm to you that the Crown Princess decided to change port due to the Captain of the vessel opting not to dock at the North pier, under the conditions that we are offering. The Captain did opt also not to stay adrift and tender the passengers. Instead Princess Cruise Lines decided to switch ports and visit Margarita on that day.

 

Princess Cruise Lines is a valued partner for Bonaire and we regret immensely that on that day you could not visit Bonaire. Princess Cruise Lines regrets this too.

 

It is the only cancellation of Princess Cruise Lines during this season.

 

We hope that in the future you will be able to visit us!

 

Kind regards from Bonaire,

 

***********************

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:******

To:info@tourismbonaire******

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:54 PM

 

Subject: Question on Cruise Ship Cancellation

 

Good day,

 

My wife and I were on the Crown Princess which was scheduled to dock in Bonaire on January 23, 2008. We did not dock, and the disappointment was severe. We were so looking forward to visiting your island, as we are divers and snorkelers, and were traveling with a group with similar interests.

 

It was announced on board the ship that we were canceled by the Port Authorities of Bonaire. Could you please let us know the reason that our ship, The Crown Princess, was not allowed to visit your island. We had friends on the Summit and they docked and thoroughly enjoyed visiting your island so much that they plan on returning for a land-based visit.

 

I would appreciate your response to the reason for canceling the Crown Princess.

 

You may reply to: *********************

 

Thank you very much.

 

Kenneth & Nancy **********

 

*************, Michigan USA

 

 

Oh ! I am still waiting for an answer on my letter to Princess regarding this issue. I will post that response when and if it is received.

[Colo Cruiser]

Hi All,

 

At last I think we got a truthful answer as to why the Crown canceled Bonaire on January 23rd. The email is in response to one I sent to TourismBonaire, which is the official website of Bonaire. I have blanked out the name from Tourism Bonaire to avoid any repercussions to the sender, but I can tell you that the person is an official spokesperson of that governmental agency.

 

"Port Congestion" was the reason the Captain gave to us for missing Bonaire. "Port Congestion" my sweet posterior. Captain Pinocchio is not only true to his nickname, but also turns out to be known by another name, Captain Tuna, you know, "The Chicken of the Sea".

 

Did Princess really think that it's passengers are that stupid as to not figure out their deceptions???

 

Princess credibility is now ZERO in my book.

 

The issue here is not whether Princess can cancel or substitute ports of call. I know they can do so, according to the cruise contract. It is, however, an issue of truthfulness and being forthcoming to their passengers.

 

I have edited the emails that follow to reflect CC policy on not allowing email addresses and to protect identities.

 

BTW, the Crown Princess did dock with the Summit on February 6th & 20th in Bonaire. Perhaps the dissatisfaction of the passengers on the January 23rd cruise made the Captain rethink his priorities.

 

Ken

 

This is the email reply we received, and our original email below that.

 

From: ****************

To:'tourismbonaire' ; *****************

Sent: Monday, February 11, 2008 1:29 PM

Subject: RE: Question on Cruise Ship Cancellation

 

Nice to notice that cruise passengers are looking forward to visit Bonaire.

The reason Crown Princess cancelled January 23rd call was: That the master of the vessel didn't want to dock at Kralendijk north pier, or stay adrift and tender his passengers. Princess than decided to cancel Bonaire and visit Margarita instead.

The first reaction of most crewmembers of the Crown (including the master) on the next call was: That they missed Bonaire very much.

 

 

Dear Mr. and Mrs. *********.

Thank you for your email. We appreciate your wish to visit our island and enjoy what we have to offer. At the same time, we regret the fact that you were not able to visit during your last cruise vacation!

 

After confirming with the Harbor Master, we can confirm to you that the Crown Princess decided to change port due to the Captain of the vessel opting not to dock at the North pier, under the conditions that we are offering. The Captain did opt also not to stay adrift and tender the passengers. Instead Princess Cruise Lines decided to switch ports and visit Margarita on that day.

 

Princess Cruise Lines is a valued partner for Bonaire and we regret immensely that on that day you could not visit Bonaire. Princess Cruise Lines regrets this too.

 

It is the only cancellation of Princess Cruise Lines during this season.

 

We hope that in the future you will be able to visit us!

 

Kind regards from Bonaire,

 

***********************

 

 

----- Original Message -----

From:******

To:info@tourismbonaire******

Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2008 2:54 PM

 

Subject: Question on Cruise Ship Cancellation

 

Good day,

 

My wife and I were on the Crown Princess which was scheduled to dock in Bonaire on January 23, 2008. We did not dock, and the disappointment was severe. We were so looking forward to visiting your island, as we are divers and snorkelers, and were traveling with a group with similar interests.

 

It was announced on board the ship that we were canceled by the Port Authorities of Bonaire. Could you please let us know the reason that our ship, The Crown Princess, was not allowed to visit your island. We had friends on the Summit and they docked and thoroughly enjoyed visiting your island so much that they plan on returning for a land-based visit.

 

I would appreciate your response to the reason for canceling the Crown Princess.

 

You may reply to: *********************

 

Thank you very much.

 

Kenneth & Nancy **********

 

*************, Michigan USA

 

 

Oh ! I am still waiting for an answer on my letter to Princess regarding this issue. I will post that response when and if it is received.

 

Wow, these are the breaks when you sail on a ship.

Yes it was a disappointment but let it go. :)

[CruisinChris]

I think you're missing the point. If you read carefully and occasionally between the lines, it appears that the north pier offered the captain was not acceptable to him. That indicates to me that either 1. it's not where the ship was originally expected to berth and or 2. the current/wind conditions made it undesirable as a docking space. It's also possible that conditions on the pier itself, especially if a working pier, are unacceptable to Princess from safety point of view. I had a discussion like this a couple years ago with the chief security officer regarding a pier in Jamaica that they were uncomfortable with.

 

The Captain made the call and refused the "conditions" of the berth offered. Who knows what the conditions were. They're not specified in the tourism letter. perhaps a shortened stay?

 

It's also not that hard to fathom why the captain would not to tend, especially if windy, strong currents, etc. were at play. This happens all the time. Check out Captain Albert's blog for discussions and his point of view about these types of decisions. I think you'll find it enlightening.

[Coral]

I would advise you to drop this also.

 

This occurs on other lines as well. It is up to the Captain to decide if they feel comfortable docking and if they do not, they do not have to.

 

I had a situation on Celebrity once in which we switched ports due to another ship at the pier in our spot - that is what we were told. We didn't find out until the night before or the morning of. Life happens. Life happens on all lines. It is one of those things that goes along with cruising - you may miss ports.

[Toto2Kansas]

Wow, these are the breaks when you sail on a ship.

Yes it was a disappointment but let it go. :)

 

I agree, this is something that seems to be tearing the OP apart. Get over it and go on. It can happen to anyone and they don't have to be specific on the reasons for missing a port. They do NOT owe you an answer, read your cruise contract, and it is the captain's decision if the ship stops in any given port and his alone.

 

This was one Caribbean Port, I would hate to see the OP go to Europe or Asia and miss a port after flying that far, they would be obsessed for years. It happens there all of the time also and you just make the best of it.

[Ethel5]

"Crown Princess decided to change port due to the Captain of the vessel opting not to dock at the North pier, under the conditions that we are offering".

 

I think this says it all. What "conditions" were they offering? A shorter stay? More port fees? It's something we don't have the answers too and maybe we never will.

[bhopal21]

Hey, we missed Caracas Venezuela back in 2004, do you think a good attorney could help me?;)

 

Mike:)

[Pam in CA]

I think you're missing the point. If you read carefully and occasionally between the lines' date=' it appears that the north pier offered the captain was not acceptable to him. That indicates to me that either 1. it's not where the ship was originally expected to berth and or 2. the current/wind conditions made it undesirable as a docking space. It's also possible that conditions on the pier itself, especially if a working pier, are unacceptable to Princess from safety point of view. I had a discussion like this a couple years ago with the chief security officer regarding a pier in Jamaica that they were uncomfortable with.

 

The Captain made the call and refused the "conditions" of the berth offered. Who knows what the conditions were. They're not specified in the tourism letter. perhaps a shortened stay?

 

It's also not that hard to fathom why the captain would not to tend, especially if windy, strong currents, etc. were at play. This happens all the time. Check out Captain Albert's blog for discussions and his point of view about these types of decisions. I think you'll find it enlightening.[/quote']

 

"Crown Princess decided to change port due to the Captain of the vessel opting not to dock at the North pier, under the conditions that we are offering".

 

I think this says it all. What "conditions" were they offering? A shorter stay? More port fees? It's something we don't have the answers too and maybe we never will.

Like the others, I would suggest you drop it. The letters you received didn't outline or specify the "conditions" so unless you are advised as to exactly what those conditions were, the vessel's capability to dock or tender under those conditions, or the passengers' port experience under the conditions, you don't know any more than you did at first. The Captain and cruiseline don't miss ports lightly. It's expensive and they incur passenger ire. The bottom line reasons why a ship misses a port are: the safety of the vessel and it's passengers; and/or potential passenger port experience. The Captain and cruiseline assumes that passengers are intelligent enough to know that their safety, and the safety of his vessel, is his primary concern and he doesn't, and shouldn't have to, justify it.

 

Get over it and take a land tour to Bonaire if it's that important to you.

[cantwaitfornextcruise]

2003 missed Margarita, 2004 missed Margarita, & Princess Cays 2006 missed Princess Cays, 2007 missed Grand Cayman. The sea conditions were not calm enough or the political situation was unstable. It was a shame at the time but the extra days at sea were great. To dock or not to dock that was the Captains question and I am darn glad he/she makes the correct choice when my safety is at risk, if you wanted to swim that badly get in the pool and ask the crew to throw in a few fish from the kitchen. If we knew the truth ALL the time we would be scared most of the time.

sorry rant over but this post is daft

[nschamp]

Most all of you have missed the OPs point!

 

He was upset because they were LIED to. I would be too.

[chrysalis]

Most all of you have missed the OPs point!

 

He was upset because they were LIED to. I would be too.

 

"Port conjestion" can mean that the pier the ship normally ties up at is being used by someone else ..... if the captain does not like or can not use the alternate pier because of safety issues....then to suggest it is a lie could be a stretch.

 

It is really silly to second guess the decisions of a highly trained and skilled Captain.

[regnig]

I'm not sure they were lied to. The captain said "Port Congestion" and did not elaborate beyond that BUT I don't think that qualifies as a lie. Had he gone into further detail explaining that the "Port Congestion" meant the Crown would have to dock "at the North pier, under the conditions that we (Bonaire) are offering" or drop anchor and tender passengers in perhaps unsafe conditions would that have made you happy? Trust me at least half the passengers on board either wouldn't have listened or understood what he was explaining. These things happen all the time for cruise ships.

 

I am truely sorry you missed Bonaire and the opportunities it would have presented you. It is always hard to accept missing a scheduled port. But were it I, I would have been delighted the Captain had my and the other passengers' safety as his first priority.

[chasetf]

Most all of you have missed the OPs point!

 

He was upset because they were LIED to. I would be too.

I agree with the above two posters. You make a big jump calling the Captain and cruise line LIARs.

 

OP is just upset because his dive got bagged and he didn't get his "Chicken of the Sea" response.

[starsjohn]

Wind, tide, and water current conditions on the north pier may have prevented the ship from making an appropiated docking. I was on the Dawn Princess and watched an incredible battle between the Captain, ship, and wind to dock. Even with a very determined Captan, side thusters and tug boats, the Dawn almost lost the battle.

[4cats4me]

Time to move on -- this is just no big deal. Disappointments happen

in life all the time. Hopefully the OP can fulfill their dream to

dive in Bonaire on a future trip. Perhaps they could plan a nice

land-based trip there sometime:)

[Pam in CA]

Most all of you have missed the OPs point!

 

He was upset because they were LIED to. I would be too.

And exactly how was he lied to? How do you know that port congestion didn't lead to a change in whether or where the ship could dock, or, anchor and tender. Do you know for a fact that a ship or boat wasn't assigned to the original docking place by the harbormaster which caused the series of events resulting in the new "conditions" mentioned? How would you characterize that? Frankly, I'm getting the idea that the OP is like a two-year-old whining, "That's MY toy!" and not liking any of the answers about why it's not their toy. I'm sorry. Get over it. Almost everyone has missed ports, including some very special ports, for a variety of reasons. And, I've disembarked via tender at a port when it was beautiful and cloudless when we landed onshore but was a terrifyingly violent severe storm when we were tendered back to the ship. In retrospect, we should never have been allowed to disembark. Hindsight is always 20/20.

[heartofamerica]

Most all of you have missed the OPs point!

 

He was upset because they were LIED to. I would be too.

 

Were they? Here's some stuff I found in a search of Bonaires ports. First, let's start with the specifications of the Crown herself:

 

Length / Tonnage: 910 / 114,000

 

Now, let's take a look at the piers in Bonaire:

 

South Pier / New pier

 

 

 

Max. DWT: 100,000

 

Max. draft: 33'

 

Max. Width: 50'

 

Max. LOA : 1,050'

 

Pier Length: 394'

 

Height of pier: 6'

 

Pier workload capacity: 2,000 Kg./M 2

 

 

 

North pier

 

 

 

Max. DWT: 50,000

 

Max. draft: 33'

 

Max. width: 50'

 

Max. LOA: 738'

 

Pier length: 225'

 

Height of pier: 6'

 

Pier workload capacity: 2,000 Kg./M 2

 

So what we have - the Crown has a DWT of 114,000, but the maximum for the north pier is 50,000. The crown has length overall (LOA) 910 and the north pier seems to want to set a maximum of 738. It would appear that among the conditions the captain was being asked to accept was putting a ship that was over twice the maximum tonnage and 200 feet longer than what the specifications for the pier into that very pier. I don't know about you, but it sounds like things could very well get "congested" in that situation.

[daveco58]

Hey, we missed Caracas Venezuela back in 2004, do you think a good attorney could help me?;)

 

Mike:)

 

 

You would have to define "good attorney". lol. I think they are like UFO's - we are all pretty sure they exist, though we have never actually seen one.

[B40 Tha Cruisa]

Great info heartofamerica. I hightly doubt the Captain "lied" to the passengers. Port congestion can mean just that. The only acceptable dock for that ship was taken- therefor it was congested.

[daveco58]

Were they? Here's some stuff I found in a search of Bonaires ports. First, let's start with the specifications of the Crown herself:

 

Length / Tonnage: 910 / 114,000

 

Now, let's take a look at the piers in Bonaire:

 

 

 

So what we have - the Crown has a DWT of 114,000, but the maximum for the north pier is 50,000. The crown has length overall (LOA) 910 and the north pier seems to want to set a maximum of 738. It would appear that among the conditions the captain was being asked to accept was putting a ship that was over twice the maximum tonnage and 200 feet longer than what the specifications for the pier into that very pier. I don't know about you, but it sounds like things could very well get "congested" in that situation.

 

Mostly good points. I would like to point out though, that while her "displacement" is 114,000, the "deadweight" is only about 15,000 tons

 

Biggest problem I see here is the draft. If the max draft at the pier is only 33 ft, and the ship drafts 27, that's pretty tight. Especially if the Bonaire folks (like many Caribbean ports) are less than diligent about dredging regularly, especially if it is a lesser used pier.

[bhopal21]

You would have to define "good attorney". lol. I think they are like UFO's - we are all pretty sure they exist, though we have never actually seen one.

 

I knew that was a mistake 30 minutes after I posted it Dave. As a matter of fact, I have a small sign on my desk that says 'Never buy from a rich salesman, ALWAYS hire a rich attorney"

 

I still want to go to Caracas one day. LOL

 

Mike:)

[M&MCruisin]

thanks heartofamerica. that was a great explanation. Hope they arent congested when we go to Bonaire in April.

 

OP...hope you get the answer you are looking for and get to go to Bonaire soon.

[bhopal21]

damned boards.

 

Sorry

[Salty Dawg]

WOW !

 

Let's see--Princess canceled Bonaire at least a week before arrival. So I would say that wind and weather were not the issue, or at least they were not used in the decision making process.

 

Our friends on the Summit informed us the next day in Aruba that the port was not congested. They were the only ship in port. We we scheduled to arrive at 11am and Summit at 1pm. They said that there was an empty berth in front of them.

 

On February 6th (the next time the Crown was scheduled in Bonaire), they docked with the Summit. See the attached picture.

 

February 20th (today), Crown and Summit were again in Bonaire together.

 

My opinion is very simple. Did they have a right to skip Bonaire for any reason per contract --YES. Did they have a right to charge us extra for the privilege of going to Isla Margarita (a much less desirable port) as per contract. YES.

 

Were we lied to by the Captain ---Yes, yes, yes.

 

In addition, speaking with several crew (who were in a position to know) indicated that they did not believe the Captain either.

[Colo Cruiser]

You would have to define "good attorney". lol. I think they are like UFO's - we are all pretty sure they exist, though we have never actually seen one.

 

 

 

Excellent!!! :D