Finally The Truth on Crown Missing Bonaire -Jan 23rd

[A Sixth?]

......- thereby burning an additional $50,000 or so of fuel to go to a more distant port,.

.".

 

One reason Margarita is popular with cruise ship is the extremely cheap fuel prices their. A gallon of gas at the pump is only about 11 cents. I can only imagine how cheap crude for a cruise ship would be.

 

Fueling up in Venezuela could save $ 100,000.00s

 

Not that I'm suggesting that there was a conspiracy ;-)

[zacc]

One reason Margarita is popular with cruise ship is the extremely cheap fuel prices their. A gallon of gas at the pump is only about 11 cents. I can only imagine how cheap crude for a cruise ship would be.

 

Fueling up in Venezuela could save $ 100,000.00s

 

Not that I'm suggesting that there was a conspiracy ;-)

Just to add to the confusion....

 

Last time I checked Isla Margarita is located between Grenada and Aruba....they had to cruise right by rather than cruise out of her way....so I don't think they burned to much "extra" fuel. Or did they turn around and go back?!?

 

In the famous words of Sherlock Holmes...the games afoot Watson!

[Host CJSKIDS]

Let me see if I understand this completely.

 

Someone is accusing the Captain of fabricating a story so he could skip a port - for whatever reasons - thereby burning an additional $50,000 or so of fuel to go to a more distant port, cancelling and refunding about $75,000 worth of shore tours, and being unable to re-schedule those tours in a port they never visit, upsetting 3,000+ passengers and causing them to rate his ship lower.

So his annual bonus, based on fuel consumption, financial performance of his ship, and overall passenger rating of his ship will now be lower.

 

Makes perfect sense to me.................................................if the Captain is completely insane.

 

To paraphrase Groucho Marx, "It's too bad that the people who really know how to run a a cruise line are so busy cutting hair, driving taxicabs - and posting on the internet".

 

They didn't burn an additional $50,000 or so of fuel to go to a more distant port, Isla Margarita is between Grenada and Aruba, right on the way.

[woodofpine]

The facts: All suitable pier space was taken; the Captain characterized this as harbor authority cancellation due to congestion.

 

OP has taken the position, "Don't confuse me with the facts, I've made up my mind!" ("Pinnochio", "Chicken of the Sea", Oy Vey...)

 

Can you imagine the man hours and expense a cruiseline would incur (and pass on) if the line engaged, researched, and debated every passenger demanding 'an explanation' when a concise factually accurate explanation had already been given... particularly, as to an unchangeable 'past tense' issue or episode...

 

In the interest of managing costs, All Hail CANNED LETTERS!

 

That's 'the truth'. ;)

[A Sixth?]

Just to add to the confusion....

 

Last time I checked Isla Margarita is located between Grenada and Aruba....they had to cruise right by rather than cruise out of her way....so I don't think they burned to much "extra" fuel. Or did they turn around and go back?!?

 

In the famous words of Sherlock Holmes...the games afoot Watson!

 

You know what else is dirt cheap in Isla Margarita? Besides fuel, pearls are a bargain.

 

The plot thickens! :rolleyes:

 

Maybe the Captain used the "cheap fuel" excuse for the Princess exec's but is secretly involved in an affair of the heart and needed to buy pearls for himself as a gift to his secret lover!!!! :eek:

 

How selfish! :D

[A Sixth?]

double post... (BB slow today)

[englishharbours]

Such an interesting discussion!

 

First of all, Salty, ( I hope you are reading), you are definitely entitled to your opinions, and I, also, would have been upset had I not received a correct explanation. However that being said, there are reasons for everything. It is perfectly normal to not give a "full blown" explanation to passengers. Can you truly imagine the fracas that would develop from people that simply don't understand what he is trying to say? The more detailed an explanation, the more confusing the issue. Most passengers on a cruise ship are not experienced in sailing. As a previous poster mentioned, what would they DO with all of the extra information they are given?

 

I would not call this lying. Rather, I would call it trying to control a situation that may upset, needlessly, many more people by offering details that truly are none of their business - the decision lays with the Captain. Period.

 

Another way of looking at this is by thinking of this situation in terms of an airline rather than a cruise line. Kind of the same thing - let's say that the airline had to divert to Philly instead of landing in NY due to an unknown problem at JFK.

 

Captain: Folks, due to congestion at JFK airport, we have had to make a change in our flight pattern and we will, instead be landing at Philly temporarily. We will keep you updated as we go along.

 

Supposing he had said this:

 

Captain: Folks, I'm really sorry to have to report to you we will have to divert to Philly. This is due to the fact that at the present time air traffic at JFK is stacked up, all of the gates are full, and there are several dozen more aircraft waiting to get into those gates, Additionally, we are experiencing a shortage in gate crew. We expect our wait to be less than an hour. However, should several of the aircraft clear the gates within the next 30 minutes, and ATC is able to move some of those stacked up aircraft in to those gates, as well as having our backup gate crew in the terminal within a short time, there is a possibility we may be out sooner. But, this is also contingent upon air traffic here in Philly, and how soon we can get in or out.

 

There is such a thing as just too much information. If version # 2 was used, how many questions and time wasting would result, when the real actual reason was still congestion?

 

I honestly think that was the Captain's intent.

[gambit57]

I don't think this is as cut and dried as Salty Dog would like to think it is. He's angry at missing a port that was very important to him. That anger seems to have colored his perception. And perception seems to be the main thing at issue.

 

If you've ever taken history, then you know the "truth" of an event is determined by which perception you're looking at it from.

 

The captain gave a very terse explantion of "cancelled by Port Bonaire due to port congestion."

 

The Bonaire e-mail itself said they offered to let the ship port under their conditions.

 

Unfortunately, we don't know what those conditions were. It sounds like that North Port was possibly inadequate from a safety standpoint.

 

I can see the Capt thinking "they gave us that port? That's unsafe. I'm not docking there." From that way of thinking, then it's Bonaire's fault for offering an inadequate dock.

 

Yes, there may have been an open spot next to the Summit. However, we don't know if it was offered to the Princess ship or not? Or maybe there were safety issues in doing that? Maybe that extra spot was under repair or damaged in a way that is invisible to the passengers on the Summit? Tons of possible explanations.

 

The captain gave a short response. It can be read a million ways. Maybe you want him to take the blame for something he doesn't consider is his fault. Taking one for the team (team being the entire cruise industry, not just Princess). That's not "the truth" then as Salty Dog seems so desparate to want to hear. That would be a little white lie to be noble or to make Bonaire look good. Some people might choose to do that due to a quirk in their personality. Most people prolly wouldn't. Either way, it'd be a LIE. I commend Salty Dog for being quite gentlemanly about how he's taking all these posts, but he needs to take a step back and maybe remove some blinders and see things from all different points of views. Everyone in this situation might actually think they were telling the truth or were not at fault for any of this.

[zacc]

You know what else is dirt cheap in Isla Margarita? Besides fuel, pearls are a bargain.

 

The plot thickens! :rolleyes:

 

Maybe the Captain used the "cheap fuel" excuse for the Princess exec's but is secretly involved in an affair of the heart and needed to buy pearls for himself as a gift to his secret lover!!!! :eek:

 

How selfish! :D

Upon seeing the beautiful pearl necklace the secret lover asked where the Capt. had found such a wonderful and romantic gift. By candlelight he told the story of diverting the ship. Upon hearing the story she jumped to her feet and screamed...You diverted a cruise ship filled with over 3000 people to a different port of call and didn't even buy me the matching earrings and bracklet. What the hell were you thinking!!!!!!!!!!

[sadie8]

Upon seeing the beautiful pearl necklace the secret lover asked where the Capt. had found such a wonderful and romantic gift. By candlelight he told the story of diverting the ship. Upon hearing the story she jumped to her feet and screamed...You diverted a cruise ship filled with over 3000 people to a different port of call and didn't even buy me the matching earrings and bracklet. What the hell were you thinking!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

We are on the same page as Salty Dawg and here is why. We were aboard the Crown Princess that week and upon embarking heard rumor that there was an itinerary change. Eventually we turned it into a game and were laughing after we asked about twenty crew members and NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON, could tell us why Bonaire was traded for Isla Margarita. Eventually, can't even tell you when or where, we heard the reason was "port congestion." I wrote a letter to Princess when I got home, not because of itinerary changes, but because of lack of communication on board. I found it personally insulting that the Captain did not even attempt to make any type of explanation, and felt that as nice as he was, that he actually avoided all discussion of Bonaire. I did receive a nice response letter from Princess and they said all diversions are taken under careful consideration and they welcome us back on board their ships.

 

I am going to take my cruise dollars and share them with some other cruise lines for a while.

[Pam in CA]

We are on the same page as Salty Dawg and here is why. We were aboard the Crown Princess that week and upon embarking heard rumor that there was an itinerary change. Eventually we turned it into a game and were laughing after we asked about twenty crew members and NO ONE, NOT ONE PERSON, could tell us why Bonaire was traded for Isla Margarita.

I really do understand your frustration as I've been on a cruise where the Captain was very open and announced exactly why we'd turned around and where we were going next and what time we'd be there. On my HAL cruise last summer, we'd been steaming for over 24 hours to get to the polar ice cap and we were pretty much at it's last known location when the ship suddenly turned around and headed back to Spitzbergen at full speed. People were livid and incredibly upset with rumors flying. IMHO, missing seeing the polar ice cap is a heck of a lot more life-changing than missing Bonnaire because your chances are between slim and none that you'll have that opportunity again at any price. After about an hour, the Captain came on the PA system and explained that a woman had a sudden appendicitis attack and needed immediate surgery. Someone's life was on the line so that quieted people down a bit but there was still grumbling with stupid comments such as, "They should make everyone take a physical before boarding a ship." Yeahsureright. About four hours later, the Captain came back on the PA to give us the schedule of when we were getting back to Spitzbergen and that he'd revised our itinerary so that we'd miss a small Norwegian port but that would allow us to steam back up to the polar ice cap the next day. Cheers and excitement. The woman had her surgery and everything worked out for her, and we got to actually steam into the polar ice cap.

 

This is the sort of communication you're talking about and wish had happened. But it's exceptional and it was an very unusual circumstance. One thing to keep in mind is that crew members hear the rumors and the passengers talking, and don't know anything more than the passengers. Asking them is pointless. It doesn't matter how many you ask; they won't know.

[Ethel5]

I think what people need to keep in mind is that the Captain doesn't make these decisions to change itineraries on his own-it comes from the home office.

[sadie8]

I think what people need to keep in mind is that the Captain doesn't make these decisions to change itineraries on his own-it comes from the home office.

 

According to my letter from Princess they were not willing to pass the buck, they said the Captain made this decision, and it is always a difficult decision for him to make. Apparently, he doesn't get off that easily.

 

This is the sort of communication you're talking about and wish had happened. But it's exceptional and it was an very unusual circumstance. One thing to keep in mind is that crew members hear the rumors and the passengers talking, and don't know anything more than the passengers. Asking them is pointless. It doesn't matter how many you ask; they won't know.

 

I wish we had had your captain on the Crown Princess. In a perfect world and on a perfect cruise, the captain would have informed the crew and the passengers of details and then everyone would have the same information. While Princess welcomed me back aboard their vessels they did not say they would take my letter and share it and improve communications with passengers. They continue to remain in the right!!

[sadie8]

I think what people need to keep in mind is that the Captain doesn't make these decisions to change itineraries on his own-it comes from the home office.

 

According to my letter from Princess they were not willing to pass the buck, they said the Captain made this decision, and it is always a difficult decision for him to make. Apparently, he doesn't get off that easily.

 

This is the sort of communication you're talking about and wish had happened. But it's exceptional and it was an very unusual circumstance. One thing to keep in mind is that crew members hear the rumors and the passengers talking, and don't know anything more than the passengers. Asking them is pointless. It doesn't matter how many you ask; they won't know.

 

I wish we had had your captain on the Crown Princess. In a perfect world and on a perfect cruise, the captain would have informed the crew and the passengers of details and then everyone would have the same information. While Princess welcomed me back aboard their vessels they did not say they would take my letter and share it and improve communications with passengers. They continue to remain in the right!!

[sadie8]

Oh yeah, just one more thing. Did Salty Dawg mention that they charged us an additional port charge to take us to Isla Margarita instead of Bonaire. I remember it being $2.30 per person charged to our sea pass accounts. Talk about "Nickel and Dime-ing the passengers."

[CruzinNoony]

I'll bet that if you check your final bill, you'll see that they credited the port charge for Bonaire.:rolleyes:

[sadie8]

I'll bet that if you check your final bill, you'll see that they credited the port charge for Bonaire

 

Honestly, I would love to be able to say Princess did the right thing and "YES" there is a credit for Bonaire, but that is not the case. The charge for Isla Margarita is listed as a government tax for $3.60 per person on our passenger folio.

[heartofamerica]

Honestly, I would love to be able to say Princess did the right thing and "YES" there is a credit for Bonaire, but that is not the case. The charge for Isla Margarita is listed as a government tax for $3.60 per person on our passenger folio.

 

Would you be happy with a $3.60 pp refund?

[Ethel5]

Would you be happy with a $3.60 pp refund?

 

Seems to me they wouldn't be happy with anything short of lynching the Captain and a free World Cruise!

[sadie8]

Would you be happy with a $3.60 pp refund?

 

 

I didn't ask for anything in my letter to Princess and actually complimented them on portions of the cruise. To answer your question, Yes, I would be happy with a $3.60 refund.

[Charles4515]

Seems to me they wouldn't be happy with anything short of lynching the Captain and a free World Cruise!

 

They would not even be happy with that. Some people have obsessions.

 

The Captain did not change ports on a whim. He would only change for good reasons. The passengers on that sailing were lucky that an alternative port was able to be arranged. Most of the time when I have had a port that could not be done a day at sea was substituted. Second guessing the Captain on this is useless. He is the professional. We are not qualified to Captain the ship!!!

[PescadoAmarillo]

According to my letter from Princess they were not willing to pass the buck, they said the Captain made this decision, and it is always a difficult decision for him to make. Apparently, he doesn't get off that easily.

We have been fortunate enough to dine with several captains on several cruise lines and they, without fail, tell us that every decision they make is reviewed by someone back at the corporate offices. Yes, they make the final decision, but, I have a feeling that this captain was explaining his decision to someone not on the ship before the passengers were even aware that Bonaire was going to be missed. Ship's captains have huge responsibility; they also have huge accountability.

[Coral]

Ship's captains have huge responsibility; they also have huge accountability.

 

I agree here.

 

If a wrong/bad decision is made, it could cost the cruise line thousands (if not more) plus potential medical issues.

 

I doubt any Captain wakes up in the morning and says "I think I am going to ruin everyone's day because I would prefer to skip that port for no reason what so ever."

[pudgy]

Is the captain to blame for this argument? Yes. All he had to do was say that the ship has been bumped from it's normal pier to the north pier by the port authority. The north pier is to small of a pier to to safly dock and unload passangers from a ship the size of the crown. So with deep regret we cannot dock for the safty of the passangers and ship. Also to the people that think the captain does not owe a explaination to the passagers I think you are wrong. You are paying for a service when you do not get you should be explained why not . I feel that had it been explained the op would not of had a problem and this thread would not of been started. On my last cruise we were to of docked at St Lucia. We were told that we would have to tender in because there were more ships in the port and they got our dock spot because they go to the island more often that the Emerald. This case everyone was explained why no bad comments about the captain or Princess. All it is lack of communacation. P.S. Princess had another ship that was docked at the pier and they sent some of there tender ships to help tender passangers to and from the island. I feel that was great of them to do that.

[RSWBADGER]

It looks like the decision not to make a call in Bonaire on 1/23/2008 was made at least a couple of days before the cruise, here's a cruise ship port schedule from infobonaire.com, effective 1/21/2008 showing only the Summit in port that day.

 

 

Jan.23......Summit.......2034............Celebrity/RCCL

http://www.infobonaire.com/cruises.html

 

 

Note that they may change to Euros by this time next year. This too may influence the cruise industry. While we were there they had so many ships scheduled they had to divert the Crown Princess to Margarita Island because there was no room in port

.

 

http://www.bonairetalk.com/newsgroup/messages/36/348703.html?1203770463