I can no longer purchase from HAL from online agency

[trubey]

Today I was thinking about how I would really like to take another cruise: on my one and only favorite cruise ship--The Prinsendam.

 

I navigated to my former on-line travel agency and was extremely shocked when I saw this message:

 

Because you are visiting from a Web address outside of the United States and Canada, certain cruise lines will not appear in the search results that forbid US-based travel agencies from booking international guests: Holland America, Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises, Princess Cruises, Star Clippers.

Of course, I can arrange for someone in America to book an actual cruise for me, but I was sorely deprived of those moments of looking longingly at each cruise itinerary, then looking at the prices. Much of the fun of the cruise is in the planning process.

 

The HAL website, let me browse, but I always preferred the prices from my on-line agency.

 

I definitely admit that I have not followed this forum recently, so I apologize if I am repeating any earlier posts. But I was so disappointed.

 

Can anyone tell me the backstory of this change in ticket sales. If not, will you simply give me your consolation.

 

susana.

[Jade13]

I am not outside the US but HAL wants passengers paying in their own currency. I know it has been an issue for Canadians. I thought the way around it was just booking the cruise with the agent (no flights) but I don't understand how those pax deal with the online check-in and passport info?

 

Have you tried plugging in "United States" when the site asks for your home location? Right now you are just looking for pricing. I can go to UK pages of various cruise lines and see pricing...but of course in the end want to pay in dollars.

[gizmo]

I have seen a lot of complaints on the Princess about this.

[SueOverend]

I hope this is not a new thing - I am from the UK and have booked our up and coming cruise on the Eurodam through a US agency and have paid our balance in US dollars. We always book "Cruise only" and most UK agents will only sell you packages with flights included. This would be a real blow if this is a new HAL policy and would probably preclude us from booking with them ever again. The HAL UK website is much more expensive than using an online US TA. Will be interested to hear of anybody else's experiences. Sue

[Krazy Kruizers]

So sorry to hear about your booking problems.

 

Hope you get everything straightened out.

[grannynurse]

Hi Susana,

Please accept my condolences on the loss of your DH, I have been sick myself and just recently read about it.

 

I can't imagine your not being able to book a HAL cruise from the Azores.

We will be in Ponta del gada next April, perhaps we can finally meet.

If you'd like to email me at grannynurse@cox.net, I'll see what I can do to help you with your cruise.

GN

[baanmaan]

I am living in the Caraiben, cruising for years with HAL, Mariner member, was in May on the Statendam, booking always via Web Cruise Travel agency, I start up a new booking and get the following reply:

 

I have been informed that Holland America Cruise Lines will not allow US Travel Agents to book reservations for Foreign travellers, unless they are accompanied in another cabin with a US Citizen (Cross-referenced) and paid in US Funds or,

 

1) US Citizen living abroad,

2) Us Resident,

3) If you are traveling with a US Citizen- who are either in your cabin or cross-referenced to your cabin.

 

I feel my very offended by the HAL and also discriminated by them, when I call HAL I can book with them without a problem, is this it no strange??

 

Is that what the USA called free trading???

[lettienets]

I think it has something to do with money. Check the cost of a cruise at home in your own currency and translate it into US and I bet the cost of the cruise is higher at home and therefore the cruise company makes more money by making you pay more. This used to happen here in Canada all the time. We paid way more for the same cruise if you booked it in Canada. If I book online at a US agency, the price is cheaper despite the exchange rate. There are two large online agencies where you have to use the Canadian web site now. If you try the US .com web site they automatically shift you to the Canadian one.

[cle1]

Today I was thinking about how I would really like to take another cruise: on my one and only favorite cruise ship--The Prinsendam.

 

I navigated to my former on-line travel agency and was extremely shocked when I saw this message:

 

Because you are visiting from a Web address outside of the United States and Canada, certain cruise lines will not appear in the search results that forbid US-based travel agencies from booking international guests: Holland America, Norwegian Cruise Line, Oceania Cruises, Princess Cruises, Star Clippers.

Of course, I can arrange for someone in America to book an actual cruise for me, but I was sorely deprived of those moments of looking longingly at each cruise itinerary, then looking at the prices. Much of the fun of the cruise is in the planning process.

 

The HAL website, let me browse, but I always preferred the prices from my on-line agency.

 

I definitely admit that I have not followed this forum recently, so I apologize if I am repeating any earlier posts. But I was so disappointed.

 

Can anyone tell me the backstory of this change in ticket sales. If not, will you simply give me your consolation.

 

susana.

 

Susana...Check your Email.....Carol

[trubey]

This all seems a bit crazy to me.

 

I do not think it is a matter of the currency exchange. Many people (like me) maintain cash funds and plastic cards in more than one country. And I believe that the merchant processes the transaction into whatever currency the rated is quoted.

 

The HAL website does not appear to have a problem with selling me a room--I had just found the online agency that I had used had much lower prices. I would guess that it is HAL specifically which has decided not to allow American travel agents to process requests when the customer's request is coming from outside the US. This is so totally absurd. Your ISP, at the moment of the request, does not necessarily reflect your legal country of residence or citizenship.

 

For all I know, if I had written my travel agency an e-mail, they might very well have taken my specific order. But I like to shop. I like to compare routes, number of days, and prices. Come to think of it, I think I might right them an e-mail right now.

 

susana.

[RuthC]

Hi, Susana. I hope you're doing well.

Have you tried clearing your cookies on your computer? That might keep the websites from knowing where you are. Then use a US address, if necessary.

Just a thought.

[fann1sh]

Your computer's IP is it's "home address". It shows your location. You could use an anonymous web proxy to conceal your location. That would let you browse travel agency sites. However, you will still face booking difficulties when forced to provide your name and passport details.

 

I've been incensed by this policy for some time now. Princess was the first to enforce it. The list now includes Costa, Holland America, Oceania, Star Clippers as well as Princess. Perhaps it's time for international HAL mariners to :o consider Celebrity.

 

The prices for cruises from all these lines for Great Britain and Australia are significantly higher, much more than mere "currency exchange" could account for - sometimes double, especially for Caribbean cruises.

 

P.S. - on another board, we've had a lively discussion about whether the cruise companies could be successfully sued for this discriminatory regional pricing in a U.S. court. Due to Bahama, Liberia, and Panama flags of convenience, I think it's a GATT matter for the Hague.

[trubey]

Now I am feeling really paranoid. I wrote them an e-mail and got the Mailer Daemon giving me some reason that appears to be that their mail server is rejecting my ISP (for techies only: the code said 554 5.7.7 PTR missing).

 

Meanwhile, I just went to a few other sites and saw that the prices given. Whether they would allow me to book is still unknown.

 

My next step, I am going to forward my letter to an American friend and see if they answer.

[iancal]

Many companies price the same product differently in different countries. It is based on the cost of doing business locally but it is even more about charging what the traffic will bear. Many travel organizations have gone away from this because of the internet. Carnival Cruise lines has not. Sometimes you will pay the same, more often much more. THe NA market is very competive for Caribbean cruises hence this is typically the most cost effective place to book. The cruise lines are trying to shut this down but most people skate around it quite easily.

[InTheWASide]

Hi Susana,

 

HAL has international sales for most countries in order to make bookings when you live outside the US. On HAL's website, going to "Contact Us" and clicking "International Sales" then "Portugal" gave me the following info

 

(Note to Hosts... this is answering her question for how to book a HAL cruise. This is not the promotion of an agency in a country I have never been to :) )

 

Portugal

Clube Cruzeiros

Rua Rodrigues Sampaio 170 - 3rd Floor

1169-120 Lisboa

Portugal

Phone: 00351 - 210 329 444

Email: geral@clubecruzeiros.pt

Contact: Ana Bento

[sail7seas]

Your computer's IP is it's "home address". It shows your location. You could use an anonymous web proxy to conceal your location. That would let you browse travel agency sites. However, you will still face booking difficulties when forced to provide your name and passport details.

 

I've been incensed by this policy for some time now. Princess was the first to enforce it. The list now includes Costa, Holland America, Oceania, Star Clippers as well as Princess. Perhaps it's time for international HAL mariners to :o consider Celebrity.

 

The prices for cruises from all these lines for Great Britain and Australia are significantly higher, much more than mere "currency exchange" could account for - sometimes double, especially for Caribbean cruises.

 

P.S. - on another board, we've had a lively discussion about whether the cruise companies could be successfully sued for this discriminatory regional pricing in a U.S. court. Due to Bahama, Liberia, and Panama flags of convenience, I think it's a GATT matter for the Hague.

 

 

The Hague will be 'handy' ;) as HAL ships are registered in Netherlands.

[TCF]

As I understand it, this is ALL ABOUT THE CURRENCY EXCHANGE RATES!

It is not something new, but since the US$ has been taking a serious beating against most other "commmon" currencies in the world, the cruise industry has been far more cognizant of the loss in revenue it earns on foreign currency.

For some time, (years in some cases), Canadians as an example would pay 30% + on the CDN$ against the US$. But as the US$ value fell against the CDN$ so did the little bonus the cruise lines would realize from their Canadian clients. So, to offset this decline the cruise lines simply set their own Currency Exchange Rates. So as the CDN$ exchange against the US$ dropped to par, 1%, 2%, 3% where it is now, the cruise lines set thier exchange rates at 10%,12% even as high as 18% on some services.

If you want to see this in action all you need do is dig up the letter distributed on HAL ships, just as an example, that prices the $100 future cruise booking deposit. It shows US passengers must pay $100, Canadian passengers must pay $118, European passengers must pay $$$$, and so on!! (This means that HAL has set its own currency exchange rate at 18% for these future cruise bookings. Not bad getting an additinal $18.00 'just because'!)

There is nothing illegal about this practice, but if you ask most Canadians they find it unethical at least!

If you look at the HAL Canadian website at make a note of prices, then clear your cookies and log into the US site you will find the prices on the same cruise remarkably different.

In most cases the amounts for Canadians are quite small so we tend to just 'grin and bear it', but on our current cruise for next month the cost was increased by over $400 just in exchange rate...so it can be a big thing! European customers dealing in EURO and UK clients dealing in Pound Sterling the difference will be huge.

All the cruise lines deny they do this....or they have convoluted excuses they call, "reasons", for the discrepancies in costs, but they all do it.

We have found that if we call them on it, they quickly adjust things to the Bank Exchange Rate Of The Day....which is the honourable way most companies do business when dealing with foreign customers.

[brucory]

As I understand it, this is ALL ABOUT THE CURRENCY EXCHANGE RATES!

 

It is not something new, but since the US$ has been taking a serious beating against most other "commmon" currencies in the world, the cruise industry has been far more cognizant of the loss in revenue it earns on foreign currency.

 

For some time, (years in some cases), Canadians as an example would pay 30% + on the CDN$ against the US$. But as the US$ value fell against the CDN$ so did the little bonus the cruise lines would realize from their Canadian clients. So, to offset this decline the cruise lines simply set their own Currency Exchange Rates. So as the CDN$ exchange against the US$ dropped to par, 1%, 2%, 3% where it is now, the cruise lines set thier exchange rates at 10%,12% even as high as 18% on some services.

 

If you want to see this in action all you need do is dig up the letter distributed on HAL ships, just as an example, that prices the $100 future cruise booking deposit. It shows US passengers must pay $100, Canadian passengers must pay $118, European passengers must pay $$$$, and so on!! (This means that HAL has set its own currency exchange rate at 18% for these future cruise bookings. Not bad getting an additinal $18.00 'just because'!)

 

There is nothing illegal about this practice, but if you ask most Canadians they find it unethical at least!

 

If you look at the HAL Canadian website at make a note of prices, then clear your cookies and log into the US site you will find the prices on the same cruise remarkably different.

 

In most cases the amounts for Canadians are quite small so we tend to just 'grin and bear it', but on our current cruise for next month the cost was increased by over $400 just in exchange rate...so it can be a big thing! European customers dealing in EURO and UK clients dealing in Pound Sterling the difference will be huge.

 

All the cruise lines deny they do this....or they have convoluted excuses they call, "reasons", for the discrepancies in costs, but they all do it.

 

We have found that if we call them on it, they quickly adjust things to the Bank Exchange Rate Of The Day....which is the honourable way most companies do business when dealing with foreign customers.

 

This discussion has been debated for some time with regard to other cruiselines on the Australia website and some of the UK sites. While it may have to do with currency exchange, this does NOT explain the double and over prices that Australians, for example have to pay for cruises when booked through Australian sites.

 

The agencies in Australia do NOT have access to the wholesale prices that US travel agents have and they have complained bitterly that people are able to book those fares when they cannot sell them, as they lose the business. The solution that has been found is to stop people from booking these fares if they are not from the USA (or Canada, in some cases).

 

People have tried ways around this such as using addresses in the USA, and other ways, but really it is up to the selling agent in the end...

 

HAL recently sent out a circular to its Mariner members offering fares that were "even available to those outside the USA". The fares were a joke in comparison to what was available to USA travellers through other sites, including HAL's own site, accessed from the USA.

 

Airlines do the same thing... For example, a round trip fare from LA to Sydney, ex USA can be bought for under 1000, however starting in Aus, it is well over 2000. People say it is dictated by the market, but in this day and age, with globalisation and internet purchasing, it does get very frustrating...

 

Good luck with your purchasing Susanna... Where there is a will, there is a way... :D :D :D

[Ship's Wake]

Here's the scoop on the difference in pricing. Most cruise lines that cater primarily to the North American market use what is referred to as GSAs (general sales agents) in countries outside of North America (such as the U.K., Australia, many countries in Europe, Central America, and South America). GSAs are not travel agents - they are essentially the representative for the cruise line in a given country and work under contract with the cruise lines. The role of the general sales agent is to promote to the public the cruise line's itineraries in their market, handle the bookings, deal with customer service issues, issue brochures, provide ticket fullfillment, etc - in essence represent the cruise line in a given country. As you can imagine, the cost to the GSA for advertising, marketing, booking agents, customer service representatives, and fullfillment can be significant.

 

Because the GSAs have this overhead, they are sometimes not able to offer the same deals as U.S. and Canadian based agencies. Needless to say, they are none to happy when customers in their sales territory (who may or may not seen their advertising and received marketing information about a cruise from them) attempt to book the cruise with a North American travel agency. The GSAs put pressure on the cruise lines to enforce their GSA contract, hence the website restrictions some non-North american customers are experiencing.

 

You might be asking why some cruise lines use GSAs. Many cruise lines do not want to bear the expense of running offices in other countries, so they use GSAs instead to keep their costs lower. GSAs worked well in the age before the internet. Today, you could make the argument they they have outlived their usefulness.

[Sue's Mom]

HAL has an office in the UK, although I can see the point you are making.

[trubey]

Oysterdam, you have cleared up some of the mystery for me.

 

I have lived in Portugal for a lot of years now and have laughed as the travel agents pulled out their HAL brochures for me and showed me the prices. They were astounished when I told them about my internet prices.

 

But I guess what I don't still understand is why some travel agent web sites continue to show prices and will let me view everything and others will not.

 

I will continue to dream about this winter's South American Prinsendam cruises. And, if and when, I actually decide to cruise again, I will arrange everything by e-mail.

 

susana.

[Ship's Wake]

Susana,

 

What's probably happening is that the larger cruise agencies that handle higher volumes of bookings have had several GSAs (or a particularly determined GSA) complain to the cruise lines about losing customers to that agency. The large agency has too at stake to continue to book non-North American cutomers, who probably account for less than 2% of the agency's overall sales. These agencies, while they want your business, are willing to forgo booking international customers in order to stay in the good graces of the cruise line.

 

Afterall, the cruise line owns the product, while the travel agency just sells it in exchange for a commission. When the cruise line threatens to put the agency on a stop sell and prevent them from selling (and therefore earning commission on) their product, the travel agency is forced to act in the best interest of their business.

 

Smaller agencies who make fewer cruise sales are often able to slip non-North American bookings through "under the radar". Your best bet is to find one of these agencies to book your Holland America cruises through.

[Aussie Gal]

I know that if we booked a cruise in Australia on HAL, Oceania or Princess, we would be up for at least another 20% on what U.S. citizens pay. I will not pay this extra amount because of where we live.

 

Therefore, for the past 4 years, we have only ever booked our cruise with online agents in the U.S. and there are quite a few of them who are willing to book cruisers from outside the States.

 

Jennie

[MMDown Under]

I know that if we booked a cruise in Australia on HAL, Oceania or Princess, we would be up for at least another 20% on what U.S. citizens pay. I will not pay this extra amount because of where we live.

 

Therefore, for the past 4 years, we have only ever booked our cruise with online agents in the U.S. and there are quite a few of them who are willing to book cruisers from outside the States.

 

Jennie

 

Did you see in Saturday's SMH, HAL has halved its prices for Australian cruises late 2008/early 2009?

[brucory]

Did you see in Saturday's SMH, HAL has halved its prices for Australian cruises late 2008/early 2009?

 

HAL had placed an advertisement in the same newspaper liftout.... The discounted fares are still much more than the fares that can be purchased through most online agencies....

 

:D :D :D