Passenger services act

[Shipyard Cruiser]

Research. I've read a lot on this.

 

Then please share some of your source material?

 

And "the boards" is not valid source materal.

[Cuizer2]

Then please share some of your source material?

 

And "the boards" is not valid source materal.

 

I have provided links in prior posts. If I have time I'll provide some more - later.

[oceanseagle12]

wow. Im just now reading this thread, and I read every word because I found it an interesting question.

 

I have my own thoughts but I won't bother because it seems like people have made their own interpretations of the law, and are viewing it all as black and white.

 

I did, however, want to offer a suggestion to the OP-

 

I am glad you have an answer, and it sounds like you are in good shape. However, if you want an answer you know you can count on from CARNIVAL, to avoid the possible cancellation of the cruise- why not ask John Heald?

 

He will get you an official answer from Carnival and prevent any possibility of them cancelling a booking or trying to assess a fine to you if there is a problem. Post a question on his "blog thingy" at http://johnhealdsblog.com/

 

Best of luck!

[nrdsb4]

wow. Im just now reading this thread, and I read every word because I found it an interesting question.

 

I have my own thoughts but I won't bother because it seems like people have made their own interpretations of the law, and are viewing it all as black and white.

 

I did, however, want to offer a suggestion to the OP-

 

I am glad you have an answer, and it sounds like you are in good shape. However, if you want an answer you know you can count on from CARNIVAL, to avoid the possible cancellation of the cruise- why not ask John Heald?

 

He will get you an official answer from Carnival and prevent any possibility of them cancelling a booking or trying to assess a fine to you if there is a problem. Post a question on his "blog thingy" at http://johnhealdsblog.com/

 

Best of luck!

 

And please come back and post his response.:)

[Amerikaner83]

And please come back and post his response.:)

 

 

speak of response....

 

Mike C Asked:

John Please Respond

John, I’ve got a question for you that I’ve been getting a variety of different answers on! We’d like to go B2B next year on the Spirit, Seattle to Vancouver and Vancouver to Hawaii. Some people says that this violates the Jones Act, and some don’t. It’s a new run for the Spirit since it currently starts its Alaska runs in Vancouver.

Can you please ask Carnival’s legal eagles to give us a ruling on this?

 

John Says:

Hello Mike

Thanks for writing and giving me the chance to tell you that in the case of a back-to-back cruise on the Carnival Spirit the Jones Act/Passenger Services Act does not apply. It is a very complicated act and it is often best to ask if it applies or not. Anyway, you are now free to explore the wonders of Alaska for two unforgettable voyages.

Please let m know if you need any further help.

Best wishes

John

 

 

There we go. DOES NOT APPLY. Straight from Mr. Senior Cruise Director Himself.

 

 

 

 

But wait - he made no mention if he was an American Citizen...have to ask again!!! :-)

 

 

http://johnhealdsblog.com/2009/06/17/boris-the-dream-maker/#more-9474

[amybeth4]

speak of response....

 

 

 

 

There we go. DOES NOT APPLY. Straight from Mr. Senior Cruise Director Himself.

 

 

 

 

But wait - he made no mention if he was an American Citizen...have to ask again!!! :-)

 

 

http://johnhealdsblog.com/2009/06/17/boris-the-dream-maker/#more-9474

 

 

I'm glad you posted that response from John Heald. I thought I was doing a good thing and actually emailing someone who CERTAINLY seemed to know the law here...and I just did it for my own enjoyment, lol. I don't know the OP from a hole in the wall...

 

I was one of the first to say it's probably illegal but it doesn't sound like it is, esp. if it's booked as two completely different sailings. :)

[aussie2324]

speak of response....

 

 

 

 

There we go. DOES NOT APPLY. Straight from Mr. Senior Cruise Director Himself.

 

 

 

 

But wait - he made no mention if he was an American Citizen...have to ask again!!! :-)

 

 

http://johnhealdsblog.com/2009/06/17/boris-the-dream-maker/#more-

9474

 

I am the OP and I am not a US citizen. I am Australian. (don't hold that against me):pBut I know Mike who posted the Question. And no he is not an Aussie or a US citizen. I was about to post this question to John when Mike had already done it. Now we have the same answer from CCL, John Heald, and other parties. I thank you all for your diligence and hard work. If anything it gave every-one some thing to talk about. But thankyou. We are going to enjoy this cruise. Just have to wait another 14 and a half months:eek:

 

Tracey

[Cuizer2]

Do what you want and let us know how it works out. I'm going to be on a cruise next week, back one week, then on vacation the following week. I'm too busy at work to spend much time on this now. I wish you all the best.

[aussie2324]

Ahh thanks I think :confused:

[Cuizer2]

Perhaps you should read this thread, since it is the same situation you are in. Just click on the link below ...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=21251347#post21251347

 

As I've said many times before, you are going to be in for a very rude surprise shortly before your cruise.

[Gibby]

On behalf of all the other Programmers, leave us out of the discussion.

 

Clearly any shortcomings in the operation of the system are due to lack of adequate specs, or insufficient testing. Therefore you'd have to blame either the Business Analysts or QA department!

 

Yes, QA, blame them!

[reggierail]

Perhaps you should read this thread, since it is the same situation you are in. Just click on the link below ...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=21251347#post21251347

 

As I've said many times before, you are going to be in for a very rude surprise shortly before your cruise.

 

I just don't know if even this will make our point. :rolleyes:

It has happened to me and others but who can argue with John Heald? :eek:

[Cuizer2]

I just don't know if even this will make our point. :rolleyes:

It has happened to me and others but who can argue with John Heald? :eek:

The CBP. They will be easy to spot. They have uniforms, badges, guns and handcuffs.

[ehfl]

Why are you listening to "other individuals", instead of the official word from the Cruise line?

[reggierail]

Why are you listening to "other individuals", instead of the official word from the Cruise line?

 

If I'm one of the other individuals you refer to, I am a travel agent that has been there done that. Because I listened to the official word from the cruise line I was forced to completely change plans on an NCL trip several years ago. The butcher, the baker, the candlestick maker all have an opinion but we will see what happens. :p

[Cuizer2]

Why are you listening to "other individuals", instead of the official word from the Cruise line?

Because the cruise lines don't understand the PVSA. Read the following thread and you will see ...

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=21251347#post21251347

[jame_g]

I was just going to say that it seems there is a post somewhere on cruise critic every so often about someone who gets booted at the last minute from one leg of a B2B cruise because the line finally determines that the combined itinerary is a violation of the act.

[WinnipegCruiser]

The Passenger Vessel Services Act says that any ship sailing a loop cruise from an American port (sailing from and returning to same port) must visit a foreign port. Any foreign country, and Canada qualifies. But any cruise between different American ports (Seattle and Hawaii) must visit a distant foreign port, and Canada does not qualify as a distant port. EM

 

any cruise between different American ports (Seattle and Hawaii) must visit a distant foreign port.

 

AND the cruise to Hawaii is NOT between two different American Ports. Unless they mean Vancouver Washington...I think they mean Vancouver BC.

 

So the Hawaii cruise is between Canada and USA... not two different American ports.

[Cuizer2]

any cruise between different American ports (Seattle and Hawaii) must visit a distant foreign port.

 

AND the cruise to Hawaii is NOT between two different American Ports. Unless they mean Vancouver Washington...I think they mean Vancouver BC.

 

So the Hawaii cruise is between Canada and USA... not two different American ports.

 

A foreign flagged ship cannot transport passengers between two US ports without visiting a distant foreign port. It doesn't matter if it involves two different cruises if only one ship is involved.

[reggierail]

any cruise between different American ports (Seattle and Hawaii) must visit a distant foreign port.

 

AND the cruise to Hawaii is NOT between two different American Ports. Unless they mean Vancouver Washington...I think they mean Vancouver BC.

 

So the Hawaii cruise is between Canada and USA... not two different American ports.

 

There is no problem with the cruise from Vancouver to Honolulu. The problem lies when someone is booked on the Seattle to Vancouver cruise previous to the Hawaii cruise and then remains on for the cruise to Hawaii. That would in effect be a cruise from one US port, Seattle to a different US port, Honolulu and would be in violation of the PVSA.

 

Reggie

[Pistol Packin Mama]

Can I board and and debark in two different U.S. ports?

No. The Jones Act (also known as the Passenger Services Act) prohibits ships of non-U.S. registry from embarking and debarking guests at two different U.S. ports. Such travel would constitute point-to-point transportation between two U.S. ports which is prohibited on foreign flagged ships.

Note: Puerto Rico and the U.S. Virgin Islands (St. Thomas; St. Croix; St. John) are not in the category of U.S. ports under this act.

The exception to this rule is if the itinerary includes a "distant foreign port". South America and the ABC Islands (Aruba-Bonaire-Curacao) do qualify as distant foreign ports. Canada, Mexico, Central America, Bermuda and most Caribbean Islands DO NOT qualify as distant foreign ports.

Any guest who insists on debarking in this situation (which violates the Jones Act) will accept responsibility for any resulting penalties.

 

 

I've got a call into Carnival who said they would research the matter again, but I found the above on the Carnival website which might answer our questions. If you took the two cruises b2b, it would be Seattle to Hon.

[imsulin]

This is a really interesting thread, and I just don't have any answers. Would love to hear the outcome, though! I know the US airlines are required to give you a legal "turnaround" time for domestic connections (40 minutes?), but we all know how well THAT works! There's really no comparison, though. I hope OP is able to enjoy non-interrupted and smooth cruises! OP -please keep in touch.

[reggierail]

The problem will rear it's ugly head when a month or maybe even a week before embarkation, someone from CBP calls Carnival and says, "There are several people doing an illegal Seattle to Honolulu trip on Spirit." Then Carnival will call the guests and ask which cruise they want to cancel. :eek:

 

Reggie

[imsulin]

Hate to say this, but res. agents on cruise lines have a big turnover, and are often younger and inexperienced. This has been my experience as a TA. They read from a script, and there are times you just don't get correct information. I often had to ask for a supervisor. It's not just Carnival, either. Sometimes, even the supervisor couldn't provide a correct answer. That's when I'd call our area sales rep. Get it in writing!

[Bawen]

Technically speaking your combined itinerary is Seattle to Honolulu. You cannot do that, even with a "stop" in Vancouver, BC. If the ship were to leave on a different day, or if you were on two different cruise lines, then you would be allowed.

David

 

The above is 100% mis-information. The two seperate cruises are allowed.;)