what's with credit card preauthorization charge?

Have you ever contacted Hal? I've seen posters on this board say they were able to get the amounts reduced.

I have but they wouldn't change it. The only away I've found around it is the cash route at the Front Office after check-in.

My disagreement is when the triple or quad has one or two children. To authorize $1440 for two teenagers, on a 12 day cruise, is ridiculous. Or for that matter, two seven year olds is even more ridiculous. They may purchase a few soft drinks, but that is about it.

 

If a guest goes above and beyond their spending the front office can adjust the authorizations throughout the cruise. In a hotel, night audit tracks spending every night and makes adjustments if needed. A computer program lists the guests who are close to their limits.

 

HAL very easily can do the same as the computer systems are built to do it. If you reach your authorization limit, your account is cutoff, just like in real life. There is no financial risk to the cruise line. You try to buy a spa treatment and you already have bought $4000 in wine, then no spa treatment unless more authorizations are put through on your card. Simple!

 

No, it's not a charge, but unless it is the usual AMEX, is still ties up available credit until the authorization falls off. This does not happen until the final charge goes through and in some cases a few days after that. If you have, say a $5000 limit, and are travelling before and after the cruise, tying up $3000 in authorizations, when you may only spend $1000 is not ideal. Other cruise lines don't authorize nearly as much as HAL, so not sure why they need to do this.

You have an excellent point with respect to children and teenagers. I've not travelled with them and wasn't aware that they too are subject to a hold. Actually, I'm surprised that, as minors, they can be issued cards allowing them to charge items of any sort while on board.

Given the general state of affairs with HAL's computerization, I'm not sure that it would be as easy a task as you make it sound to develop a system along the lines that you suggest. Besides, from a business perspective, why lay out vast sums of money to develop an implement yet another computer system when they have a proven system in place today at no additional cost: put a $60pppd hold on all passengers.

I can understand the frustration for a limited number of passengers, such as yourselves, but I really do believe that you form a very small minority and that HAL has more pressing issues to deal with that impact a far greater percentage of its clientele. I guess the cash route is your only option for the foreseeable future if you are unwilling to allow HAL to place a hold on your credit card(s).

I did my check in today and on the hold page it said the hold was only for passengers 18 and over.

I did my check in today and on the hold page it said the hold was only for passengers 18 and over.

Thanks for the input. That sounds a lot more reasonable.

I'm more concerned with protecting my business and my family's source of income than I am about about hurting someone's feelings when I request a deposit. If you are honest and planning to pay, why would a hold upset you?

I don't disagree with you. But I look at this issue in the context of reciprocity. I don't trust you any more than you trust me, vicariously or otherwise.

How many people have paid deposits to travel agencies and then been stiffed when they go broke before the trip starts, or even worse, after it starts and before it ends? How many airlines have left passengers stranded when they have gone broke? How many people have paid for an airline or cruise ticket only to get bumped when they try to board? How many cruisers have paid a deposit only to have the cruise canceled because a group chartered the ship? How many people have paid for a cruise only to find the itinerary is changed before they sail? How many people have reserved a specific cabin, paid a deposit and been moved to another cabin against their will?

It goes on and on. The cruise lines get away with it because they have all the power, and because we let them, as we've seen in this thread. Mind boggling! But as I said, that doesn't make it right. All I ask is mutual respect. If you don't give it, you can't expect to get it, at least not from me.

I understand the credit card hold and I agree with it. Two years ago while on the Noordam I overheard a gentleman say that he didn't know how he was going to pay his final bill because his credit cards were maxed and he was basically out of cash. This conversation occurred the night before disembarking. The next morning as we passed the purser's office to leave the ship, he was at the desk explaining to the staff that he had no way to pay his bill. How does this occur if there was an adequate hold on his credit card ?

The next morning as we passed the purser's office to leave the ship, he was at the desk explaining to the staff that he had no way to pay his bill. How does this occur if there was an adequate hold on his credit card ?

Well, he obviously spent more that the $60 per person per day that they place a hold on.

I'd say that on average on a 7-day cruise my onboard account comes to $700 - while the hold would only be for $420.

Well, he obviously spent more that the $60 per person per day that they place a hold on.

 

I'd say that on average on a 7-day cruise my onboard account comes to $700 - while the hold would only be for $420.

That makes sense but if our spending exceeds the CC hold what action does HAL take to insure prompt payment ?

I don't disagree with you.

 

How many people have paid deposits to travel agencies and then been stiffed when they go broke before the trip starts, or even worse, after it starts and before it ends? How many airlines have left passengers stranded when they have gone broke? How many people have paid for an airline or cruise ticket only to get bumped when they try to board? How many cruisers have paid a deposit only to have the cruise canceled because a group chartered the ship? How many people have paid for a cruise only to find the itinerary is changed before they sail?

That's what insurance is for. And the CC hold is really just a form of insurance for the hospitality industry.

It goes on and on. The cruise lines get away with it because they have all the power, and because we let them, as we've seen in this thread. Mind boggling! But as I said, that doesn't make it right. All I ask is mutual respect. If you don't give it, you can't expect to get it, at least not from me.

Then you have a choice: don't cruise.

Don't cruise; don't fly; don't rent a car. Don't do any of the things for which a hold will be placed on your credit card.

Holds on credit cards are a fact of life. Either work with that system, or walk away.

I'm a little bit confused by this thread. A credit card hold doesn't actually cost me anything. There's no charge placed against my card. All the hold does is make sure that there's sufficient credit available to clear our account at the end of the trip. (I realize that actual money is reserved, but not charged, on a debit card.)

Authorize (hold) & Capture (charge) aren't anything new. They've been part of the credit card processing landscape for at least two decades, possibly longer. If you are uncomfortable with this, you can establish a cash account. But if you do, you're giving the hotel, rental car company, cruise line, etc. real money - which defeats your purpose.

The customer has the POWER.

You can decide to cruise on a ship that has a credit card hold or you can decide not to. Entirely your choice but good luck finding another commercial travel option where this is not the case. We travel frequently. Cannot imagine not travelling with at least two credit cards.

You can decide not to use credit cards. Again, good luck...especially in the case of an emergency. Or..you can use cash or, if you can find a place to cash them, travellers cheques, or pre loaded credit cards.

You can decide, if possible for you, to obtain a credit card with a sufficiently high credit limit so that the cruise line hold will not impact your ability to use the card in other venues.

Your choice. Why on earth blame HAL, or the cruise company. These firms need to protect themselves from fraud, theft, whatever. I would do exactly the same if it were my business.

Well, he obviously spent more that the $60 per person per day that they place a hold on.

 

I'd say that on average on a 7-day cruise my onboard account comes to $700 - while the hold would only be for $420.

We're in the same boat.* Our per diem extra charges have always exceeded $60 per day. For us, it's mostly souvenir t-shirts and bedazzled flop flops.** Since we don't actually get charged until the bill is settled, it's never been the slightest problem. I know that several cruise lines, such as Carnival and Royal Caribbean, have alternative payment methodologies for people who don't have a lot of available credit. As far as I know, Holland America does not.

* Figuratively.

** Just kidding. It's the bar tab.

We're in the same boat.* Our per diem extra charges have always exceeded $60 per day. For us, it's mostly souvenir t-shirts and bedazzled flop flops.** Since we don't actually get charged until the bill is settled, it's never been the slightest problem. I know that several cruise lines, such as Carnival and Royal Caribbean, have alternative payment methodologies for people who don't have a lot of available credit. As far as I know, Holland America does not.

 

* Figuratively.

 

** Just kidding. It's the bar tab.

welcome to the club :) I wouldn't be 5* if it weren't for the on board spending :eek: Cellar Master dinners, Chef Master dinners, PG, Le Cirque, the bar, spa, odd excursion, whatever, they all add up :eek:

You can decide, if possible for you, to obtain a credit card with a sufficiently high credit limit so that the cruise line hold will not impact your ability to use the card in other venues.

The customer has the POWER.

 

You can decide to cruise on a ship that has a credit card hold or you can decide not to. Entirely your choice but good luck finding another commercial travel option where this is not the case. We travel frequently. Cannot imagine not travelling with at least two credit cards.

 

You can decide not to use credit cards. Again, good luck...especially in the case of an emergency. Or..you can use cash or, if you can find a place to cash them, travellers cheques, or pre loaded credit cards.

 

You can decide, if possible for you, to obtain a credit card with a sufficiently high credit limit so that the cruise line hold will not impact your ability to use the card in other venues.

 

Your choice. Why on earth blame HAL, or the cruise company. These firms need to protect themselves from fraud , theft, whatever. I would do exactly the same if it were my business.

Maybe I have too much faith in my fellow man, but I really think that most of the credit card problems stemmed from innocent mistakes. It's not like you're going to pull the caper of the century and inadvertently strand yourself on a ship at sea, without an exit route.

It's not like you're going to pull the caper of the century and inadvertently strand yourself on a ship at sea, without an exit route.

There are worse places to be stranded...

The customer has the POWER.

 

You can decide to cruise on a ship that has a credit card hold or you can decide not to. Entirely your choice but good luck finding another commercial travel option where this is not the case. We travel frequently. Cannot imagine not travelling with at least two credit cards.

 

You can decide not to use credit cards. Again, good luck...especially in the case of an emergency. Or..you can use cash or, if you can find a place to cash them, travellers cheques, or pre loaded credit cards.

 

You can decide, if possible for you, to obtain a credit card with a sufficiently high credit limit so that the cruise line hold will not impact your ability to use the card in other venues.

 

Your choice. Why on earth blame HAL, or the cruise company. These firms need to protect themselves from fraud, theft, whatever. I would do exactly the same if it were my business.

Exactly. It's good to take some personal responsibility for choices.

You have an excellent point with respect to children and teenagers. I've not travelled with them and wasn't aware that they too are subject to a hold. Actually, I'm surprised that, as minors, they can be issued cards allowing them to charge items of any sort while on board.

 

Given the general state of affairs with HAL's computerization, I'm not sure that it would be as easy a task as you make it sound to develop a system along the lines that you suggest. Besides, from a business perspective, why lay out vast sums of money to develop an implement yet another computer system when they have a proven system in place today at no additional cost: put a $60pppd hold on all passengers.

 

I can understand the frustration for a limited number of passengers, such as yourselves, but I really do believe that you form a very small minority and that HAL has more pressing issues to deal with that impact a far greater percentage of its clientele. I guess the cash route is your only option for the foreseeable future if you are unwilling to allow HAL to place a hold on your credit card(s).

With regards to the computer system, they probably have the capability to do it. A good many hotels use a property management system called Opera. It's an easy function on this system. I assume most cruise lines use the same type of program. Whether HAL uses a version of this, I don't know. It is what it is. Their choice and if one doesn't like, they don't have to go on HAL. It won't stop me, but it can be frustrating.

That makes sense but if our spending exceeds the CC hold what action does HAL take to insure prompt payment ?

HAL should cut off spending above any amount that was authorized. If they have a computer system so antiquated that charging can't be stopped, that is their own fault.

They do know how much is prepaid when you check-in and a lot of people pay many things in advance. Excursions, spa, dining, etc. There are several triples and quads on each sailing. For a 12 night cruise, $2880 (quad) held on your CC is absurd, especially with prepaid items, and exceptions should be made.

Nearly every cruise line out there - HAL included - utilizes Fidelio Cruise Computer System to run their operation. Fidelio Cruise does not have the capacity to filter out which staterooms have pre-paid what.

Doing it manually would not be practical.

You can control this yourself.

Simply inform the Front Desk that some or all of your family will be spending a limited amount of money onboard.

Then you deposit that amount of cash for those accounts. When they reach that limit, any additional spending is not allowed.

Your credit card will not be assigned a hold for those people.

HAL should cut off spending above any amount that was authorized. If they have a computer system so antiquated that charging can't be stopped, that is their own fault.

ALL the cruise lines have the capability (in Fidelio) to cut off spending above the authorized amount. But they generally do not do that.

Why?

Their only profit source is onboard spending.

Why would they want to limit that?

More than 50% of cruise passengers spend more than the authorized hold. That comes to many millions of dollars. One would have to be very foolish to stop that spending.

Currently the mass market lines are seeing about 10% to 15% of cruise passengers who cannot pay their bills at the end of the cruise.

How is this possible?

Many passengers seem to feel entitled, as if the world owes them a cruise - even if they cannot afford it. So they decide to take the cruise anyway.

They scrape enough credit or cash together to buy a cheap cruise.

Once onboard, the Purser's Office needs to get a hold authorization from the bank that issued the credit card. This hold request normally takes place during the first 24 to 48 hours of the cruise. But the passenger accounts are ALL open for charging.

85% to 90% of the hold requests go through immediately.

But a number are refused for a variety of reasons:

-Wrong name on the credit card

-Passenger forgot to tell the bank he was travelling

-Satellite signal was weak and numbers were transmitted incorrectly

-Satellite was down

-Bank was closed

-Bank's computer was down

-Credit Card is no good

So the Purser's department tries again on Day 2 of the cruise. Meanwhile EVERYONE is still charging things to their stateroom account.

By the end of Day 2, the answer comes back that the credit card is no good.

On Day 3 the Purser tries to call the cabin to get a different form of payment. There is no answer, so a voice mail message is left. The passenger conveniently forgets to respond.

On Day 4, the Purser sends a letter to the cabin, informing the guest that his charging privileges will be suspended if he does not provide an alternate form of payment.

On Day 5, since the guest has no alternate form of payment, his charging privileges are suspended. But he has already charged several hundred - or several thousand - dollars to his account. He has no alternative form of payment, so does not contact the Purser's office.

On a 7 day cruise, he has already charged as much as he needed to enjoy the cruise.

On Day 7 he is asked to pay a bill that he has no money for. He cannot pay.

The only alternative left to the cruise line is to ask the passenger to sign a promissory note; he promises to pay the outstanding balance "sometime in the future".

Good luck on that one.

So what happens then? The deadbeat goes home and does not pay his bill.

The cruise line will not pursue it legally, as the legal costs involved often exceed the debt owed. The people playing this game already know that.

The cruise line covers the losses by increasing your fares.

Even with this credit card hold policy in place, between 10% and 15% of mass market cruisers are playing this game.

The honest people end up paying for them.

ALL the cruise lines have the capability (in Fidelio) to cut off spending above the authorized amount. But they generally do not do that.

Why?

 

Their only profit source is onboard spending.

Why would they want to limit that?

More than 50% of cruise passengers spend more than the authorized hold. That comes to many millions of dollars. One would have to be very foolish to stop that spending.

 

Currently the mass market lines are seeing about 10% to 15% of cruise passengers who cannot pay their bills at the end of the cruise.

 

How is this possible?

Many passengers seem to feel entitled, as if the world owes them a cruise - even if they cannot afford it. So they decide to take the cruise anyway.

They scrape enough credit or cash together to buy a cheap cruise.

Once onboard, the Purser's Office needs to get a hold authorization from the bank that issued the credit card. This hold request normally takes place during the first 24 to 48 hours of the cruise. But the passenger accounts are ALL open for charging.

 

85% to 90% of the hold requests go through immediately.

 

But a number are refused for a variety of reasons:

-Wrong name on the credit card

-Passenger forgot to tell the bank he was travelling

-Satellite signal was weak and numbers were transmitted incorrectly

-Satellite was down

-Bank was closed

-Bank's computer was down

-Credit Card is no good

 

So the Purser's department tries again on Day 2 of the cruise. Meanwhile EVERYONE is still charging things to their stateroom account.

 

By the end of Day 2, the answer comes back that the credit card is no good.

On Day 3 the Purser tries to call the cabin to get a different form of payment. There is no answer, so a voice mail message is left. The passenger conveniently forgets to respond.

On Day 4, the Purser sends a letter to the cabin, informing the guest that his charging privileges will be suspended if he does not provide an alternate form of payment.

On Day 5, since the guest has no alternate form of payment, his charging privileges are suspended. But he has already charged several hundred - or several thousand - dollars to his account. He has no alternative form of payment, so does not contact the Purser's office.

On a 7 day cruise, he has already charged as much as he needed to enjoy the cruise.

On Day 7 he is asked to pay a bill that he has no money for. He cannot pay.

The only alternative left to the cruise line is to ask the passenger to sign a promissory note; he promises to pay the outstanding balance "sometime in the future".

Good luck on that one.

 

So what happens then? The deadbeat goes home and does not pay his bill.

The cruise line will not pursue it legally, as the legal costs involved often exceed the debt owed. The people playing this game already know that.

The cruise line covers the losses by increasing your fares.

 

Even with this credit card hold policy in place, between 10% and 15% of mass market cruisers are playing this game.

The honest people end up paying for them.

Wow! I am stunned. Seriously stunned.

We do usually have a pretty hefty bill on board and I would never dream of not taking a card that did not have sufficient room.

I had no idea this many people didn't pay their bill and I just find it disgusting.

Curious, hopefully the cruise ships share this information and black ball the dead beats?

Unbelievable to not pay a bill owing.

Many passengers seem to feel entitled, as if the world owes them a cruise - even if they cannot afford it. So they decide to take the cruise anyway.

They scrape enough credit or cash together to buy a cheap cruise.

Once onboard, the Purser's Office needs to get a hold authorization from the bank that issued the credit card. This hold request normally takes place during the first 24 to 48 hours of the cruise. But the passenger accounts are ALL open for charging.

No authorisation (or equivalent cash deposit) = no cruise.

In terms of affordability, I've personally been taken aback by the suggestion made in this thread that someone might take four people on a cruise yet only have $5,000 of available credit on their credit cards. If they're that close to the line, should they really be going on a cruise?

[quote name=Globaliser;47286969

In terms of affordability' date=' I've personally been taken aback by the suggestion made in this thread that someone might take four people on a cruise yet only have $5,000 of available credit on their credit cards. If they're that close to the line, should they really be going on a cruise?[/quote]

Edited to say the quote malfunctioned. The quote is above and my reply is below.

I agree completely. What if there were to be a medical emergency? Even if you have insurance the hospital may demand an up front payment. If a family member is in hospital in a strange city then there would be hotel and meal charges for the rest of the family. It may be necessary to fly home from a distant place. If the cruise line already has a hold on your credit line how would a person manage an emergency with only a $5000 limit on a credit card? It is a scary prospect.