New Flyer, is PE worth it for long-haul?

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#21
1,091 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
Globaliser may add additional info, but the British Airways intra-Europe business class "Club Europe" offers a seat pitch of 30 inches. That's less than most US domestic coach and less than what Ryanair offers. Big shock if someone is expecting a nice seat on their way in/out between Europe and Heathrow.
The new BA Airbus 'Neo's' arriving this year will only have 29 inch pitch, in all classes! Worse than virtually all lcc's. Non-reclining seats as well, although this is a bonus on short flights.

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#22
London
22,185 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
Globaliser may add additional info, but the British Airways intra-Europe business class "Club Europe" offers a seat pitch of 30 inches. That's less than most US domestic coach and less than what Ryanair offers. Big shock if someone is expecting a nice seat on their way in/out between Europe and Heathrow.
However, there is a little consolation in the form of a guaranteed empty seat next to you: most short-haul aircraft are in a 3-3 configuration, but Club Europe is sold as 2-2. So flying in Club Europe is still not the same as economy, and I'm reminded of the research that showed that of all the things that contribute to seat comfort in economy-type seating, the most important by far is an empty seat next to you.
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#23
At 35,000 feet
9,426 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Globaliser
However, there is a little consolation in the form of a guaranteed empty seat next to you: most short-haul aircraft are in a 3-3 configuration, but Club Europe is sold as 2-2. So flying in Club Europe is still not the same as economy, and I'm reminded of the research that showed that of all the things that contribute to seat comfort in economy-type seating, the most important by far is an empty seat next to you.
Agree that the empty seat next to you is a big plus. But Euro-Biz will come as a big shock to folks from this side of the pond who think they will get something akin to USA domestic first.
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#24
At 35,000 feet
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One other item about Euro-Biz that can cause disappointment - seeing a seat map with 2-2 in business for a 737 can make one think it's like a USA first, which is also 2-2.
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"Anybody who believes they can out-think the airlines' revenue/yield management computer algorithms is, in my view, delusional." -- Gardyloo

"It doesn't really make a blind bit of difference what other people are paying since they're traveling from different airports, on different days, at different times of the year." -- fbgd

"Daddy he hates airplanes, Baby loves to fly. The Lady wants to know the reason why." -- Michael Franks

My standard response to all the questions of "Can I make that early flight home?" or "Can I take a bag that is oversized without paying?":
"Well, you gotta ask yourself....do you feel lucky? Well do you?" -- Inspector Harry Callahan
#25
Tacoma, Wa, USA
8,393 Posts
Joined Dec 2000
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
One other item about Euro-Biz that can cause disappointment - seeing a seat map with 2-2 in business for a 737 can make one think it's like a USA first, which is also 2-2.
Yes, it was a big shock my first time to learn that Euro-Biz is nothing more than economy 3 by 3 seats with the middle seat being blocked out by a cheap counter top on it.
#26
London
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Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
Agree that the empty seat next to you is a big plus. But Euro-Biz will come as a big shock to folks from this side of the pond who think they will get something akin to USA domestic first.
I agree. Assumptions are always dangerous.
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#27
Point Richmond CA
5,762 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Flying internationally on flights exceeding 7 hrs on a single plane demand no less than biz class.

With apologies to Vince Lombardi, flying in PE "is like kissing your sister."

That said, OP should familiarize herself with ITA Matrix on the web and do some comparisons of coach and biz class. There are some occasional bargains.


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#28
1,091 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
Flying internationally on flights exceeding 7 hrs on a single plane demand no less than biz class.

With apologies to Vince Lombardi, flying in PE "is like kissing your sister."

That said, OP should familiarize herself with ITA Matrix on the web and do some comparisons of coach and biz class. There are some occasional bargains.


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I would agree, apart from the fact that a 10 hour flight in biz can cost as much as a 7 day resort stay. Unfortunately some of us economically challenged mortals have to make compromises.

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#29
1,911 Posts
Joined Mar 2007
Originally posted by CruiserBruce
"Worth it" is a totally personal, subjective decision only you can make. We don't think it is, so we pay to fly Business or First
Same.

A lot of people seem to work from the bottom up when looking at airline prices. Start at economy and just go from there. Why not start at the top and work downwards, particularly if money isn't an issue.

I fly almost 100% FC domestically within the US and business or first class internationally. Instead of looking at the headline price look at the difference in price between cabins and what that gets you. For example, last year I flew AA Business Class JFK-LHR-JFK for about $2600 return....but then Economy on the same flights was only $800 less than that. Broken down it's only $50/hr difference in price before you take into account any ground benefits (my frequent flyer status gets me First Class ground benefits on AA and other airlines).

There are other smart ways to bring down the price. My primary carrier is BA and their Visa card gives you 10% off the entire fare for a $95 annual fee and you can save another $200pp by signing up for AARP (no age restrictions). BA's international business class isn't nearly as world beating as it once was but it's heaps better than any premium economy product out there.
#30
London
22,185 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
Flying internationally on flights exceeding 7 hrs on a single plane demand no less than biz class.
If you have unlimited resources.

If I have to go to Australia three times in a year, paying for it out of my own pocket, I think that I would rather not risk bankruptcy by adopting this as a rule.
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#31
Point Richmond CA
5,762 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by Globaliser
If you have unlimited resources.



If I have to go to Australia three times in a year, paying for it out of my own pocket, I think that I would rather not risk bankruptcy by adopting this as a rule.

Your circumstances may dictate that you can't do biz class. That doesn't change the fact that anything less than that class of service on the long hauls is uncomfortable for many travelers - so much so that they will spend more money and/or FF points.


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#32
1,091 Posts
Joined Jan 2015
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
Your circumstances may dictate that you can't do biz class. That doesn't change the fact that anything less than that class of service on the long hauls is uncomfortable for many travelers - so much so that they will spend more money and/or FF points.


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I think you are stating the obvious. We all want to travel in comfort, but circumstances sometimes dictate that we just have to "grin and bear it."

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#33
Point Richmond CA
5,762 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by wowzz
I think you are stating the obvious. We all want to travel in comfort, but circumstances sometimes dictate that we just have to "grin and bear it."

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One of the reasons we choose to cruise with Oceania is the air credit for DIY. Those savings added to a FF points/cash combo, date flexibility and some extensive price research often find us affordable biz class.


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#34
At 35,000 feet
9,426 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
One of the reasons we choose to cruise with Oceania is the air credit for DIY. Those savings added to a FF points/cash combo, date flexibility and some extensive price research often find us affordable biz class.
Remember that air credits don't just miraculously appear out of thin air. Somehow, Oceania (and other lines) need to have a revenue source that covers that outgoing cash flow.

You've paid for those air tickets (including the credits) one way or another.

TANSTAAFL
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"Anybody who believes they can out-think the airlines' revenue/yield management computer algorithms is, in my view, delusional." -- Gardyloo

"It doesn't really make a blind bit of difference what other people are paying since they're traveling from different airports, on different days, at different times of the year." -- fbgd

"Daddy he hates airplanes, Baby loves to fly. The Lady wants to know the reason why." -- Michael Franks

My standard response to all the questions of "Can I make that early flight home?" or "Can I take a bag that is oversized without paying?":
"Well, you gotta ask yourself....do you feel lucky? Well do you?" -- Inspector Harry Callahan
#35
Point Richmond CA
5,762 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
Remember that air credits don't just miraculously appear out of thin air. Somehow, Oceania (and other lines) need to have a revenue source that covers that outgoing cash flow.



You've paid for those air tickets (including the credits) one way or another.



TANSTAAFL
Gee- I had never thought of it in that way


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#36
At 35,000 feet
9,426 Posts
Joined Mar 2006
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
Gee- I had never thought of it in that way
Posted not so much for you, but for those who just look at some numbers and don't do the deep dive.
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"Anybody who believes they can out-think the airlines' revenue/yield management computer algorithms is, in my view, delusional." -- Gardyloo

"It doesn't really make a blind bit of difference what other people are paying since they're traveling from different airports, on different days, at different times of the year." -- fbgd

"Daddy he hates airplanes, Baby loves to fly. The Lady wants to know the reason why." -- Michael Franks

My standard response to all the questions of "Can I make that early flight home?" or "Can I take a bag that is oversized without paying?":
"Well, you gotta ask yourself....do you feel lucky? Well do you?" -- Inspector Harry Callahan
#37
Point Richmond CA
5,762 Posts
Joined Jan 2014
Originally posted by FlyerTalker
Posted not so much for you, but for those who just look at some numbers and don't do the deep dive.


Just "yankin' your chain."
Nonetheless, the fare is the fare on Oceania. They do now have a stripped down "cruise only" cabin price (w/o air and other O Life perks). But, for us, the "O Life" price includes good value related to our choices on the ship. So, we're "stuck" with the air or air credit. And we've always taken the credit in order to DIY with added pre/post cruise land stays and best use of our FF points.


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#38
London
22,185 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
That doesn't change the fact that anything less than that class of service on the long hauls is uncomfortable for many travelers - so much so that they will spend more money and/or FF points.
That's true, and I like doing it in business class - or first class, even, when I can - if I can organise it.

But that, at least, is more realistic than smugly saying:-

Originally posted by Flatbush Flyer
Flying internationally on flights exceeding 7 hrs on a single plane demand no less than biz class.

With apologies to Vince Lombardi, flying in PE "is like kissing your sister."
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#39
2,824 Posts
Joined Feb 2010
I considered Air France Premium Economy for our flight to Europe last summer, but DH actually preferred Economy. He likes being able to put up the armrests, which you can’t do in Premium Economy. I really checked the Premium Economy section as we were deplaning, and honestly, I’m glad we didn’t upgrade to it. It hardly had more space than what we had.


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#40
London
22,185 Posts
Joined Feb 2004
Originally posted by cruisequeen4ever
I really checked the Premium Economy section as we were deplaning, and honestly, I’m glad we didn’t upgrade to it. It hardly had more space than what we had.
You didn't sit in it for 14 hours, did you? I'm willing to bet that you wouldn't have said that if you had.
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