White Pass RR Being bought by CCL

I've seen this on a couple of the cruise line boards, figured I'd definitely see it here, but no.

It appears that the White Pass RR is being bought by Carnival Corporation.

With more and larger ships now cruising Alaska, maybe this is Carnival’s way to guarantee their passengers have space on the trains. I hope it doesn’t affect the independent companies such as Chilkoot Tours or the ability to book the train directly.

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I've seen this on a couple of the cruise line boards, figured I'd definitely see it here, but no.

It appears that the White Pass RR is being bought by Carnival Corporation.

Do you have a source other than what you've seen posted on boards?

Never mind... Found this: http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/n-america/single-view/view/cruise-company-buys-white-pass-yukon-railway.html Wow.

This is a quote from the press release with highlights mine -

"This asset represents a one-of-a-kind experience and is an iconic name in the Alaskan cruise industry’, said TWC Enterprises Chairman & CEO Rai Sahi. ‘Carnival already has a strong presence in Alaska with its multiple brands and White Pass represents a very strategic acquisition for them. I feel that this historic asset will be a great fit for Carnival.’

Maybe a great fit for Carnival but a probable disaster for the rest of us.

DON

Carnival also owns a couple of the cruise lines that are major players in AK.

I hope they keep their current business model and don't change it into a "Carnival Ride".

If it turns into carnival only then some of the other lines might skip skagway.

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Does Carnival/Princess even have enough ships/passengers to fill the train? I wouldn't think so. I think the news stories I was reading about it being closed last week said there were about 500 passengers at a time and up to 12 runs a day. That would be 6000 people per day which is more than are on a single ship - and not everyone want's to do this excursion. Also, does Carnival/Princess have a ship at Skagway every day of the week? Seems unlikely.

OK - I just Googled to see what was usual. Using next week (June 10-16), There was 1 day with ZERO Princess or Carnival ships, 1 day with 2 Princess ships and 5 days with 1 Carnival or Princess ship. There isn't any way they could fill the train with just their guests.

If this is an excursion that regularly sells out, then I suppose Carnival could block out more reserved space for their guests leaving a little less space for everyone else but I doubt they will close it to the general public.

Does Carnival/Princess even have enough ships/passengers to fill the train? I wouldn't think so. I think the news stories I was reading about it being closed last week said there were about 500 passengers at a time and up to 12 runs a day. That would be 6000 people per day which is more than are on a single ship - and not everyone want's to do this excursion. Also, does Carnival/Princess have a ship at Skagway every day of the week? Seems unlikely.

 

OK - I just Googled to see what was usual. Using next week (June 10-16), There was 1 day with ZERO Princess or Carnival ships, 1 day with 2 Princess ships and 5 days with 1 Carnival or Princess ship. There isn't any way they could fill the train with just their guests.

 

If this is an excursion that regularly sells out, then I suppose Carnival could block out more reserved space for their guests leaving a little less space for everyone else but I doubt they will close it to the general public.

Remember Carnival Corp also own Holland America and other lines.

I doubt they will exclude other lines. They own Gray Line buses and I assume other lines use their buses also.

Carnival Corp has a huge investment with lodges, train cars, Gray Line -they are just increasing their presence.

Does Carnival/Princess even have enough ships/passengers to fill the train? I wouldn't think so. I think the news stories I was reading about it being closed last week said there were about 500 passengers at a time and up to 12 runs a day. That would be 6000 people per day which is more than are on a single ship - and not everyone want's to do this excursion. Also, does Carnival/Princess have a ship at Skagway every day of the week? Seems unlikely.

 

 

 

OK - I just Googled to see what was usual. Using next week (June 10-16), There was 1 day with ZERO Princess or Carnival ships, 1 day with 2 Princess ships and 5 days with 1 Carnival or Princess ship. There isn't any way they could fill the train with just their guests.

 

 

 

If this is an excursion that regularly sells out, then I suppose Carnival could block out more reserved space for their guests leaving a little less space for everyone else but I doubt they will close it to the general public.

Did you look at Holland America? They are the primary Carnival owned line in Alaska. HAL also use the train to transport people from on land tours to / from the Yukon, so that might be a primary reason for the purchase.

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Did you look at Holland America? They are the primary Carnival owned line in Alaska. HAL also use the train to transport people from on land tours to / from the Yukon, so that might be a primary reason for the purchase.

 

 

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Honestly - the train is the #1 activity for most who visit the first time. I am sure they think it was a wise investment as it is a popular excursion. Plus - they may have more control of the schedules of the trains for such things as the Yukon trip. Though last I heard, those were not as popular as before.

Did you look at Holland America? They are the primary Carnival owned line in Alaska. HAL also use the train to transport people from on land tours to / from the Yukon, so that might be a primary reason for the purchase.

Nope - I have no idea how Holland America names their ships. The Carnival and Princess ships were obvious from their names. Even throwing in some HA ships, its unlikely they could totally fill the train with just their cruise guests. I think a typical ship has 3000 - 4000 passengers. Only a portion of those will be booking the train excursions. (For that matter, only a portion book any excursions at all - some cruisers like to just explore the port & shop and never book excursions at all). For rough numbers, lets assume 20% want to go on the train, so that would be 600-800 per ship. Even if they have 3 ships there every day (and in reality, there are days that Skagway only has 1 or 2 ships total in port) That would still only be 1800-2400 people, so not even half the capacity of the train.

I certainly would expect that Carnival might tweek the schedule to work best for their ships, but it would be very bad business to exclude the general public, other line's excursions & tour companies from using the train.

Nope - I have no idea how Holland America names their ships.

WesterDAM

NoorDAM

VeenDAM

VolenDAM

AmsterDAM

EuroDAM

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

Nieuw AmsterDAM

WesterDAM

NoorDAM

VeenDAM

VolenDAM

AmsterDAM

EuroDAM

All them dam ships...

Nieuw AmsterDAM

WesterDAM

NoorDAM

VeenDAM

VolenDAM

AmsterDAM

EuroDAM

 

This message may have been drafted using voice recognition. Please forgive any typos.

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The full Carnival press release suggests the acquisition is more about the port than the railroad (the railroad also owns the port). Carnival plans to expand the berths in Skagway to accommodate larger ships. Guess whose ships get to use the larger berths. I hope eventually Carnival will also open the railroad all the way to Whitehorse, but maybe only Carnival / Princess / Holland / Cunard pax will be offered an exclusive excursion all the way to Whitehorse. They can also open the railroad earlier if they need to for ships calling in late April.

but maybe only Carnival / Princess / Holland / Cunard pax will be offered an exclusive excursion all the way to Whitehorse. They can also open the railroad earlier if they need to for ships calling in late April.

If there's money to be made, I'm sure they'll open it to whoever. Just like their lodges around the state can be booked by anybody, not just people on their cruisetours.

And I think weather will prevent them from opening any earlier than they already do....

The full Carnival press release suggests the acquisition is more about the port than the railroad (the railroad also owns the port). Carnival plans to expand the berths in Skagway to accommodate larger ships. Guess whose ships get to use the larger berths. I hope eventually Carnival will also open the railroad all the way to Whitehorse, but maybe only Carnival / Princess / Holland / Cunard pax will be offered an exclusive excursion all the way to Whitehorse. They can also open the railroad earlier if they need to for ships calling in late April.

This message may have been entered via voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

You forgot Jean Claude Zaandam. [emoji16]

 

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That's funny!!! :p

I hope they keep their current business model and don't change it into a "Carnival Ride".

The only thing you can be sure of is that prices won't come come down. I hope it doesn't negatively impact the local vendor like Dyea Dave and Chilkoot. Seeing local businesses hurt by Carnival would be sad.

Carnival's Holland America Princess Alaka Yukon operation, is a huge subsidiary, with vast assets all over Alaska...Princess Lodge's, Westmark Hotels, some day-boat operations, a large fleet of tour and shuttle buses with multi bases throughout Alaska and the Yukon. They also own a lot of those luxury double deck domed train cars that operate over the Alaska RR.

HAL and Princess operate the most cruises to Alaska, and have the most 'slots' for cruising Glacier Bay National Park. Some of the other Carnival subsidiary companies also cruise to Alaska occasionally. HAP also provides land tours for non-Carnival lines that visit occasionally, such as Crystal. I am sure that they are more than happy to accommodate passenger's from other lines, and even 'fly-in' tourists.

I hope that they eventually restore service from Carcross to Whitehorse, in addition to the buses that they use now. They do have some land tours that travel from Whitehorse to Dawson City, and then connect to Fairbanks. I recall when the WP&Y was the only way to get from Skagway to Whitehorse, until the highway came thru in 1978. They used to operate 'auto-trains', that carried cars, trucks, and buses between the two...

Anyway, the WP&Y has had its ups and downs over the years...at one point it shut down entirely. It's probably a good thing that a tourist company with 'deep pockets' has now invested in its future...