Is NO ONE booking ship shore excursions???

[cruise kitty]

Interesting thread, we were first timers in Europe last fall & with intensive research & help from this board, we were able to do it all on our own. (thanks Hank!) I do think there is a place for ship excursions, some people don't enjoy obsessing over every detail of planning (I sure do;)) and some people are not in the physical shape to explore on their own. And some people enjoy having someone else tell them where to go and when. We did one ship excursion in hawaii about 10 years ago- DH & I both felt trapped, you had to wait for everyone to get on the bus, wait for everyone to shop, wait, wait, wait. Couldn't take it. My parents & Inlaws on the other hand are tailor made for ship excursions, they love sitting back , relaxing & going with the flow. Not for us, give me a train or local bus over a tour bus or taxi any day! We just booked an Eastern Med for Oct. 2011, already started the research & looking forward to it.

[Hlitner]

We have made it a "mission" to help those that want to help themselves by doing independent travel. One thing we always tell folks both here and when we are dealing with private e-mails is that if you want to DIY and have fun, you need to do your homework! The alternative is to either latch on to somebody else who has done their homework or book an excursion (cruise line or private). And even the private tours take some homework. Based on a little experience we can say, without any doubt, that the major area of complaints on European cruises are about the excursions. It is fascinating to be standing near the tour desk or even guest relations desk after a port day and listen to the complainers...often asking for refunds. Does that mean that all excursions are bad? Or course not! Most are actually pretty good. But, if even 10% have complaints that is an awful lot of whining. I think the first time I heard some passengers arguing about the "front seat" on a bus was when I knew that I did not ever want to be on those buses. These days we only consider (or recommend) a cruise excursion if it does something that we cannot reasonably do on our own.....and this rarely happens in the Med. We do practice what we preach. We will soon be going on a cruise that stops in 23 different ports (quite a few are places we have never visited) and we have not booked a single excursion. In fact, we have not even looked at the excursions (which is probably not a good thing).

 

Hank

[CathyCruises]

The other night DH was channel surfing and stopped on Wheel of Fortune long enough to hear "a one week guided tour of Italy" and the photo showed a large white bus. We looked at each other aghast, and said, can you imagine anything more miserable?? But I am sure whomever won the prize was thrilled! To me that would be a slow form of torture, but I am sure I am WAY in the minority on that. That's why there are so many options, since there are so many of us to please.

 

Cathy

[Onessa]

The other night DH was channel surfing and stopped on Wheel of Fortune long enough to hear "a one week guided tour of Italy" and the photo showed a large white bus. We looked at each other aghast, and said, can you imagine anything more miserable?? But I am sure whomever won the prize was thrilled! To me that would be a slow form of torture, but I am sure I am WAY in the minority on that. That's why there are so many options, since there are so many of us to please.

 

Cathy

 

Just follow your guide - she'll be holding a pink plastic flamigo on a long stick:eek:

[Hlitner]

A friend of mine once explained that humans differ from many animals in that we do not normally run in herds. The thought of being part of a herd with a cattle driver (holding a silly sign so we do not go astray) just goes against all my instincts. And now we even see some tour groups with all the cattle being forced to wear radio activated eat pieces so that the cattle driver can better give instructions. Yuck! Certainly not the way we want to spend our day. Ok. For you folks that love your orgainzied excursions we want you to know this post is in jest! Or is it?

 

Hank

[CathyCruises]

I am one of those people who instinctively think that I am always right and anyone who doesn't think like me is wrong. It is very hard for me to accept that "there is more than one way to skin a cat," as my ex-DH used to say. I struggle with it but hopefully one hallmark of 'maturity' is realizing that I am NOT always right and everyone is entitled to do and believe as they choose. I know that organized excursions ARE the right way to go for some people; I guess my mission is letting people know that there are alternatives that are a) more enjoyable, b) more authentic, and C) way less expensive!

 

Okay, off my soapbox now!

 

Cathy :p

[hubofhockey]

I am one of those people who instinctively think that I am always right and anyone who doesn't think like me is wrong. It is very hard for me to accept that "there is more than one way to skin a cat," as my ex-DH used to say. I struggle with it but hopefully one hallmark of 'maturity' is realizing that I am NOT always right and everyone is entitled to do and believe as they choose. I know that organized excursions ARE the right way to go for some people; I guess my mission is letting people know that there are alternatives that are a) more enjoyable, b) more authentic, and C) way less expensive!

 

Okay, off my soapbox now!

 

Cathy :p

 

Taking public transportation to and from the cruise ship to do sightseeing is not exactly immersion. But if you want to believe it's more authentic than being driven to the same sites by a driver guide, that works for you. It may even make sense to people who have been to these ports multiple times and really understand the languages and how to navigate the local transportation. When I'm spending $10K on cruisefare, airefare, hotels, and meals, I don't worry about saving $300 to $400 in total and have to take a bus or a train. The time for a little more immersion into a foreign culture would be the days in ports before and after the cruise when you stay in hotels, enjoy the restaurants, the shops, and the nightlife of those cities and countries. As for the bus tours that the cruiselines sponsor, I suppose some people take them because they are simply the easiest way to do sightseeing. All you have to do is write a check and show up at the designated meeting place.

[euro cruiser]

Taking public transportation to and from the cruise ship to do sightseeing is not exactly immersion. But if you want to believe it's more authentic than being driven to the same sites by a driver guide, that works for you.

Forgive me, but that sounds awfully pejorative. One is not more authentic than the other; however, just as most of us do not use private car services in our everyday lives, neither do most Italians at home.

 

Besides, while the chance of actually having any kind of meaningful interaction with local commuters on the train is fairly low, unless one speaks fluent Italian, the chance of having that encounter in a private car where you are the only passengers is even less.

 

When I'm spending $10K on cruisefare, airefare, hotels, and meals, I don't worry about saving $300 to $400 in total and have to take a bus or a train. The time for a little more immersion into a foreign culture would be the days in ports before and after the cruise when you stay in hotels, enjoy the restaurants, the shops, and the nightlife of those cities and countries. As for the bus tours that the cruiselines sponsor, I suppose some people take them because they are simply the easiest way to do sightseeing. All you have to do is write a check and show up at the designated meeting place.

Which is lovely if you can afford it, but not everyone can. For some, the cruise and airfare are already a stretch. Some people make port excursion choices for ease, some for cost, some for other reasons altogether.

[BigGuy25]

And now we even see some tour groups with all the cattle being forced to wear radio activated eat pieces so that the cattle driver can better give instructions. Yuck!

 

Hank

 

As I said earlier in the thread, we are real fans of private (or do-it-yourself) excursions. But, I must say a word about new "radio" ear pieces. We were on a river cruise a year or so ago where every morning would begin with a walking tour of the small villages that we were visiting along the Rhone and Seone rivers. The ship issued you your own headset when you boarded and you had it each day. The guide used the transmitter and you'd hear everything he/she said clearly. The reason this was wonderful was because you didn't need to be right on top of the guide to hear him. You could be several hundred feet away and still be totally in tune with what was being said. If you are on a larger tour ... this is really a good new technology.

[hubofhockey]

Forgive me, but that sounds awfully pejorative. One is not more authentic than the other; however, just as most of us do not use private car services in our everyday lives, neither do most Italians at home.

 

Besides, while the chance of actually having any kind of meaningful interaction with local commuters on the train is fairly low, unless one speaks fluent Italian, the chance of having that encounter in a private car where you are the only passengers is even less.

 

 

Which is lovely if you can afford it, but not everyone can. For some, the cruise and airfare are already a stretch. Some people make port excursion choices for ease, some for cost, some for other reasons altogether.

 

I don't disagree with anything you say. We are sharing the services with others on our roll call and we're paying considerably less than those booking ship sponsored excursions. I guess I have some issues with some of the regulars here who claim riding on a train is more "authentic" than what others do. We are doing DIY to go to a beach in Mykonos and to get to Nice from Monaco. I am not against it. But seeing the world from a cruise ship and seeing one city for 10 hours is hardly authentic no matter how you do it. My concern with people pushing that on these boards is that it is not as easy some make it out to be and you will spend more time making connections and transfers figuring out logistics and timing than you would otherwise, especially if you don't understand the language. We can't afford to go on cruises all of the time and travel to Europe as much as many on these boards. When we go, we are gong to make sure that whatever can enhance our vacation, we'll do, especially if the cost is reasonable.

[Hlitner]

We would have to agree that using terms such as "immersion" and "authentic" are a bit over the top. However, a term I love to often use when we are helping folks map-out an independent day is "atmosphere." There is just something lost when riding down the Champs Elysees in a large sealed bus, or walking up to the Spanish Steps as part of a large group (with earphones), or having lunch in the large back room of a touristy restaurant (while independent or private tour folks are sitting at a perfectly located outdoor cafe) does not always let a person feel the special atmosphere that makes some places special. Last year DW and I were strolling though St Paul de Vence (one of our favorite towns in the south of France) and saw a tour group from our ship walking up the street. They were all in a line and carefully following their tour guide as we were chatting with a local artist who owned his own gallery. One of the folks on the tour knew us from the cruise and gave us a half-hearted wave as she hurried by the cute gallery so she could keep up with her tour and schedule. On that same day we noticed that some of the local men were playing boules at the boules field located at the cafe just outside the town entrance. We stopped what we were doing and decided to have a cup of cafe au lait and watch the boules game..and eventually have an interesting conversation with one of the players. If we had been on that bus tour it would have been impossible to make that stop and learn how these same guys had played boules in that same location for over 20 years. One problem with almost any tour (even many private tours) is that you give up your flexibility for expediency. This might satisfy those who are trying to crowd as much possible into a short day, but we prefer to stop and "smell the roses" or, in this case, watch the boules.

 

Hank

[cruisemom42]

I don't disagree with anything you say. We are sharing the services with others on our roll call and we're paying considerably less than those booking ship sponsored excursions. I guess I have some issues with some of the regulars here who claim riding on a train is more "authentic" than what others do. We are doing DIY to go to a beach in Mykonos and to get to Nice from Monaco. I am not against it. But seeing the world from a cruise ship and seeing one city for 10 hours is hardly authentic no matter how you do it. My concern with people pushing that on these boards is that it is not as easy some make it out to be and you will spend more time making connections and transfers figuring out logistics and timing than you would otherwise, especially if you don't understand the language. We can't afford to go on cruises all of the time and travel to Europe as much as many on these boards. When we go, we are gong to make sure that whatever can enhance our vacation, we'll do, especially if the cost is reasonable.

 

I don't know that I'm one who has ever claimed doing it on your own is more authentic. What I do believe is that DIY enables you the freedom of making your own choices for the day and at a reasonable cost.

 

I often travel solo, and I have specific interests -- I cannot always find others to "share" a tour with me. For example, on my upcoming cruise ship visit to Israel, I want to visit 3 ancient sites from Haifa that are not included on the "average" tour -- Caesarea, Sepphoris, and Beit She'arim. I have no interest in seeing the usual religious sites of Northern Israel (e.g., Nazareth, Sea of Galilee, etc). This is not because I've been to Israel before (it's my first visit there) but because I have researched the area and pinpointed specific things that I want to see. However, despite actively soliciting on my roll call for about 3 months, I have yet to find even one person to share the cost of this $500 full-day tour with me. It's very frustrating, because Israel does not seem to have the public transportation options that would enable me to see these places on my own. So I'm left with the option of busting my budget with a $500 tour, taking the ship's tour that only includes one of the places I want to see, or taking a "standard" private tour with others that doesn't include any of the places I'm interested in.

 

The other point I wanted to address was the language. I do not speak more than a few words in Turkish (if that) or Japanese or French, or Catalan, yet I have had absolutely no problem navigating public transportation in each place. English signage may not always be obvious, but it is usually there if you know where to look -- again research is the key. Also, in most places where cruise ships stop, you'd be hard pressed not to find someone who can communicate in pretty good English.

 

I can very honestly say that public transportation generally works better than cruise-sponsored tours in terms of maximizing your time in port. On shore excursions, there is a lot of wasted time and waiting involved (not to mention forced shopping opportunities). I recently posted a fairly accurate assessment of DIY vs. using the ship's transportation in Livorno to Florence, pointing out that DIY would probably gain you 2 additional hours in Florence. Two hours is a lot of time to lose when you are only there for one day.

 

But I also think DIY can work even better than a private tour in some cities, because the traffic (Rome, Barcelona, Istanbul, Tokyo, Athens, for examples) is so bad that even walking on foot is often faster than being driven.

 

I am certainly not against private tours -- they make sense in some ports, and they are generally better than ship tours. However, they can also be little more than a taxi driver who knows some facts about the region, and has a pleasant demeanor, in which case I feel cruise pax are being somewhat oversold (and overcharged) for what they are getting.

[caribbeansun]

+1

 

What I do believe is that DIY enables you the freedom of making your own choices for the day and at a reasonable cost.

 

Particularly true when the "private tour" goes to exactly the same places as the cruise tour as recently happened to me with Cosol Tours in St. Lucia - I was very unhappy as I had clearly expressed our desire to not do this. The provider's answer was "people who take private tours just don't want to ride with other people" - uhhh, NO! That was a complete rip off, a wasted day and left us with a very bad taste in our mouth. Having said that we learned a lesson.

 

 

I am certainly not against private tours -- they make sense in some ports, and they are generally better than ship tours. However, they can also be little more than a taxi driver who knows some facts about the region, and has a pleasant demeanor, in which case I feel cruise pax are being somewhat oversold (and overcharged) for what they are getting.

[euro cruiser]

I am certainly not against private tours -- they make sense in some ports, and they are generally better than ship tours. However, they can also be little more than a taxi driver who knows some facts about the region, and has a pleasant demeanor, in which case I feel cruise pax are being somewhat oversold (and overcharged) for what they are getting.

I do find myself wondering when I'm told that a particular guide or driver knows "everything" about an area. I wonder how any of us would be able to judge this, unless we've done a boatload of research. Someone with enough confidence could portray themselves as an expert on, say, central China, and I wouldn't be in a position to know if they really are an expert, or if they are serving me a lot of BS.

 

Maybe I'm just too skeptical, because the folks who rave about their driver or guide have usually had a wonderful experience, so perhaps I should just leave it at that.

[hubofhockey]

I don't know that I'm one who has ever claimed doing it on your own is more authentic. What I do believe is that DIY enables you the freedom of making your own choices for the day and at a reasonable cost.

 

You weren't the one who claimed it was more authentic. I will say that two of the driver guides we are using are giving us much free reign to set the itinerary. For the most part, since we have never been to the Mediterranean, we were hoping to see many of the top highlights and I have no objection to going to the signature sites. Perhaps if we ever get back, it is more likely we'll do some of the other things. As for reasonable cost, for eight ports included tickets for admissions to sites and including only one lunch, my wife and I are in for $650 each. It's a little over 10% of the total cost of our vacation. I am good with that.

 

One more thing, a point was made earlier that using driver guides is not something that people do in their regular day-to-day lives. I don't disagree with that either. But doing a Mediterranean cruise is not an everyday or even every decade event for many of us. It's the first time for me and I am more than willing to spend a little extra for a nice air conditioned van in the heat of the Mediterranean in July.

[samavarcruiser]

I do find myself wondering when I'm told that a particular guide or driver knows "everything" about an area. I wonder how any of us would be able to judge this, unless we've done a boatload of research. Someone with enough confidence could portray themselves as an expert on, say, central China, and I wouldn't be in a position to know if they really are an expert, or if they are serving me a lot of BS.

 

Maybe I'm just too skeptical, because the folks who rave about their driver or guide have usually had a wonderful experience, so perhaps I should just leave it at that.

 

I agree :)

[cruisemom42]

I do find myself wondering when I'm told that a particular guide or driver knows "everything" about an area. I wonder how any of us would be able to judge this, unless we've done a boatload of research. Someone with enough confidence could portray themselves as an expert on, say, central China, and I wouldn't be in a position to know if they really are an expert, or if they are serving me a lot of BS.

 

Maybe I'm just too skeptical, because the folks who rave about their driver or guide have usually had a wonderful experience, so perhaps I should just leave it at that.

 

 

I often do a boatload of research (hey, it's what I do ;)) and I have come across several different types of guides in my travels:

 

1) Those who tell charming stories but are light on the facts.

 

2) Those who give you facts -- but the facts are out of date (e.g., new research has proven a certain fact wrong or put it in a different context)

 

3) Those who just plain get it wrong.

 

 

Of course, there are also guides who know the facts but deliver them in a dry manner that puts people to sleep. Then there's the rare guide (and I do mean rare) who has it all. In all my years of touring, I can think of only three guides I've ever had that met this last criteria. For most people, getting #1 is probably sufficient.

 

Has anyone seen "My Life in Ruins" about the Greek tour guide (Nia Vardalos)? The stereotyping of the tourists was funny but sad. The tour guide wanted to tell them all about these wonderful Greek ruins, and all they wanted was ice cream, shopping, and a beach day.... I remember feeling incredulous when the "curmudgeonly wise old man" (played by Richard Dreyfuss) was telling her to "sex up" the story of the oracle of Delphi if she wanted to keep people interested. Sheesh!

[CathyCruises]

Yes, I was the one who used the term 'authentic', but Hank's use of 'atmosphere' is a much better choice. What I was trying to describe is getting the feel of a place, not just stopping in to see its artwork or heaven forbid its 'factory direct shopping opportunities'. I mean wandering down side streets, encountering open air markets where the 'locals' actually shop, sitting in a sidewalk cafe people-watching, all the things you cannot do when part if a group of 60. I don't care what you say, you cannot possibly get the 'feel' of a place driving through it in a huge tour bus. You have to get out and walk!

 

This argument can go on forever. Those who are comfortable, and indeed prefer, exploring on their own, will never see eye to eye with those who choose to use planned excursions. We're are fortunate to have those choices. Think about how many people never get more than 100 miles from home!

 

Cathy

[KirkNC]

I understand that for some the security and peace of mind is why they choose a ships tour. For me, I really enjoy the research but it does take a lot of time. The payoffs are multiple, first you almost always save a ton of money, over 50% in many cases. This probably matters more to some than others but on our upcoming cruise in July, I bet we saved over $2,000 by DIY. An example, we are taking the train to Florence, for the three of us that will run about $90 (taxi plus round trip train tickets). HAL offers a bus ride to Florence for $99/pp or $297 total. Multiply that by 14 ports and you have real money.

 

The second benefit is that you can go more places and see more things than the ships tour and do it at our own pace. As others have talked about, I can't tell you how many times we have had dinner conversations with people who saw half of what we did in a given day (at twice the price)

 

The third benefit to me might be the most important one. By having to take the time to do the research, you learn a lot about the place you are going. So as opposed to just kind of showing up at someplace, you gain a lot more understanding of the where's, why's and how's. Not to say you can't learn this and still take a ships tour but when you are DIY you have to learn it to pull it off.

 

Kirk

[Hlitner]

We really enjoyed Kirk's post. My politically correct thought with the opinions on this thread are "can't we all simply agree to disagree." We became big proponents of independent travel after we had a series of awful excursions many years ago. When we would go to the tour desk to complain we found ourselves in long lines behind other complainers. When we realized that the most complaints on Med cruises have to do with excursions we decided to become somewhat more adventuress. We quickly discovered that we always had more fun being on our own, actually got to meet and chat with many locals, enjoyed eating in cute cafes and restaurants, and loved that we could do things on our own schedule. Over the next thirty years we developed our own port-day style (which we use as a guide here) which has given us a very high satisfaction rate (probably over 95% enjoyment of our port days). We have also spent many many months on simple driving trips throughout Europe which has added to our knowledge of how to do port days. A side benefit is that we have saved a lot of money (certainly over $25,000 and probably a lot more) then if we had tried to do similar things with private excursions. We have also grown to accept that our kind of independent travel is not for everyone (we are often reminded of that fact here) and respect each persons right to make their own decisions (it would be nice if our governement had this same attitude). But I will relate a fact about travel and excursions. As a general rule (and there are a few exceptions) it is possible to duplicate most any excursion on your own for a significant cost savings. And, there are many things we do on our own that cannot or are never done by any excursion. For example, from the port of Naples you will never find excursions to Ischia or Procida and there are very few excursions that go to Ostia Antica (absolutely amazing ruins) from Civitavecchia. How many cruise ship excursions to St Paul de Vence give you enough free time to enjoy a nice lunch on a terrace overlooking the valley below (the answer is NONE)? How many excursions let you spend 3 or more hours exploring the ruins of Ephesus (NONE unless you hire a private guide and dictate the itinerary)? How many organized excursions let you enjoy a delightful 2 hour lunch on the Piazza Navona (one of our favorite spots in Rome)? How many cruise ship excursions take you to the Nice Flower Market? We could go on and on. When we have dinner on ships the conversation is often about ports and folks exchanging comments about what they did that day. When we say what we did we often will hear something like "we didn't know you could do that" or "we didn't see that option on any excursion." Of course when they ask us how we even knew about something we tell them to read the Cruise Critic forums :)

 

Hank

[DanManBob]

I may be off base here, but here are some thoughts from a cruising newbie.

 

I suspect that people who like DIY believe it is THE way to go. People who like private tours believe likewise, and the same for those who like ship sponsored tours. Everyone is different in their views of things. Some LIVE for formal nights. Others wish there were no such things. Some worry about the ship experience and have little interest in the ports. Others, such as myself, are much more interested in the ports and what we will do and see OFF the ship.

 

I have two friends who told me they would NEVER do DIY or a private tour because they worry about missing the boat's departure (figuring the boat would not leave without them if they are on a ship sponsored outing).

 

I have a close, long-time friend (since 4th grade and we are now almost 60) who along with his wife has been on many cruises and both ship sponsored and private tours. We tend to view things in a similar manner, so when he suggested private tours (and some specific companies), I listened to his advice. His rationale is that with a small, private tour, there is more flexibility and perhaps some time savings due to not dealing with loading and unloading of large busloads of folks.

 

So, for better or worse, I took his direction and our group of four has private tours/drivers booked in most locations on our October 2010 cruise. In the few others, we will DIY. Time will tell what our experience will be, but hopefully things will go well.

[hubofhockey]

DeadManBob, we are doing pretty much what you are doing. We are doing a couple of larger roll call excursions (16 people). The advantages of those include much lower prices than Princess and they also include licensed guides. But, for the most part, we are going as a group of six or four people. There are other advantages of the having the air conditioned van and driver, especially on hot days in July and I still believe that having a driver at your call will allow you to see many more things in less time than DIY. I am not against DIYs and I always appreciate Hank's and Cruisemom's posts. We are doing DIY in Dublin (pre-cruise), Venice (original embarcation), Mykonos, Monaco (heading to Nice), and Barcelona (disembarcation). If people want to do ship excursions because they want everything worry free, that can work well for them.

[texancruzer]

Has anyone seen "My Life in Ruins" about the Greek tour guide (Nia Vardalos)? The stereotyping of the tourists was funny but sad. The tour guide wanted to tell them all about these wonderful Greek ruins, and all they wanted was ice cream, shopping, and a beach day.... I remember feeling incredulous when the "curmudgeonly wise old man" (played by Richard Dreyfuss) was telling her to "sex up" the story of the oracle of Delphi if she wanted to keep people interested. Sheesh!

 

I love that movie. But it does show the validity of those who are not there for a gazillion historical facts or those who want to spend 500 hours researching a place they are to visit. Again, the friend of mine who was leaving on a cruise in a week and didnt even know the name of the ship she was sailing on :eek: YIKES.

 

To me, a great experience is somewhere in the middle. I want to learn about where I am visiting but not go overboard (no pun intended ;)) and have it be only about that. I want my guide to be entertaining AND learn something. I also want to take the opportunity to slow down and "smell the roses" as I know I won't ever be able to see it all unless I move there (hmmmmm :)).

 

I think we all have different expectations of what our trip will be and that is that.

 

It is summed up - No matter how much you tell me how good beets are, I will NEVER EVER like them :D

[cruisemom42]

I may be off base here, but here are some thoughts from a cruising newbie.

 

I suspect that people who like DIY believe it is THE way to go. People who like private tours believe likewise, and the same for those who like ship sponsored tours. Everyone is different in their views of things. Some LIVE for formal nights. Others wish there were no such things. Some worry about the ship experience and have little interest in the ports. Others, such as myself, are much more interested in the ports and what we will do and see OFF the ship.

 

I have two friends who told me they would NEVER do DIY or a private tour because they worry about missing the boat's departure (figuring the boat would not leave without them if they are on a ship sponsored outing).

 

I have a close, long-time friend (since 4th grade and we are now almost 60) who along with his wife has been on many cruises and both ship sponsored and private tours. We tend to view things in a similar manner, so when he suggested private tours (and some specific companies), I listened to his advice. His rationale is that with a small, private tour, there is more flexibility and perhaps some time savings due to not dealing with loading and unloading of large busloads of folks.

 

So, for better or worse, I took his direction and our group of four has private tours/drivers booked in most locations on our October 2010 cruise. In the few others, we will DIY. Time will tell what our experience will be, but hopefully things will go well.

 

DeadManBob, we are doing pretty much what you are doing. We are doing a couple of larger roll call excursions (16 people). The advantages of those include much lower prices than Princess and they also include licensed guides. But, for the most part, we are going as a group of six or four people. There are other advantages of the having the air conditioned van and driver, especially on hot days in July and I still believe that having a driver at your call will allow you to see many more things in less time than DIY. I am not against DIYs and I always appreciate Hank's and Cruisemom's posts. We are doing DIY in Dublin (pre-cruise), Venice (original embarcation), Mykonos, Monaco (heading to Nice), and Barcelona (disembarcation). If people want to do ship excursions because they want everything worry free, that can work well for them.

 

Your approaches are certainly reasonable and well thought out. Most of the folks who come to this board seeking advice are already looking for something "beyond" the basic shore excursion, and that's what we try to advise on. Certainly there are people who are dyed-in-the-wool shorex people, but most of them don't make it as far as this board, having already checked out and decided on their shore excursions on the ship's website.

 

In many cases, those who advocate DIY (myself included) have tried all the available options at one point or another. What I object to is when people who genuinely are considering DIY for the right reasons are told by other posters that DIY cannot work, that they won't see as much, that they are being "penny wise but pound foolish," and so on.

 

I and others have proved time and again that you CAN see as much doing something on your own as on a private tour or shore excursion. Most of the naysayers have never tried DIY. So I would just caution cruisers to take vehement objections to DIY with a grain of salt.

 

Of course there are exceptions. Going it on your own requires good mobility, ability to walk several miles in a day, read maps, and do research in advance. I'm very much with Kirk in that one of the things I enjoy most about DIY is doing my research ahead of time. I find that I remember so much more about every port when I've already read about it several times.

 

Others are happy to tell you what they've done over dinner, but it often sounds something like this: "Yes, we had a wonderful day. We went to that little town --what was the name of that town, honey? Well, you know the one on the water. We can't recall the name, but we got some great souvenirs there. And then we went to that famous place with the Greek ruins -- or was it Roman? I don't remember, but it doesn't really matter, does it?" :rolleyes:

[m steve]

The idea of 50 people geting on and off the bus with maybe half having mobility problems scares me. I really like no more than 12 in a van but the cruise lines don't think that way. I am sure there are many options for them to book for smaller groups w/o having a private driver for 3-4 at $500+. I am happy to try a private tour in the Caribbean but not in Europe.

My ideal tour would have us visiting local restaurants, cafes and markets and then going back to the ship with my haul and cooking dinner in my cabins kitchen.