HAL considering going totally non-smoking?

[BruceMuzz]

We no longer book a verandah due to getting smoked out in the past.

I have asthma and just have to stay away from it, on the other hand my father must have his scotch & cigar on his verandah every evening, if he could not, he would not cruise, so we came up with what we thought was a workable solution.

 

Split the ship in 1/2

Port side smokers

When you book state if you are a smoker or not

If non smoker, state if it is bothersome for you or not.

that way folks who have issues being exposed to smoke could be free of worry.

 

If all the smokers are on the port side - those of us who do not want to be exposed to secondhand blowing smoke, could completely avoid the smoke and enjoy our verandahs.

 

Works for me.

 

That's great that it works for you.

But the cruise lines need to come up with a plan that works for most EVERYONE.

 

A few lines tested the smoking cabins on one side; non-smoking on another. Didn't work.

Too many people either started or stopped smoking between the time they booked, and the date of the cruise.

 

Too many people had one smoker and one non-smoker in the same cabin. One insisted on being on the non-smoking side; the other insisted on the smoking side.

 

Bookings for some cruises had more smokers than one side of the ship could acommodate. Putting the excess smokers on the non-smoking side completely defeated the program.

 

Bookings for many cruises had far more non-smokers than smokers. Putting non-smokers in to the smoking side again completely defeated the program.

 

The logical alternative would be to accept ONLY smokers on one side and ONLY non-smokers on another, leaving many cabins empty. Then the cruise line doubles your fares to cover the losses. Any votes for that idea?

 

A cruise ship's ventilation system is very complicated. Typically there are three or four cabins on the same deck, directly connected to each other via this system. Strangley, sometimes they are even on opposite sides of the ship from each other. Trying to sort out which cabins are connected is tough enough, but then having to designate them smoking or non-smoking based on which other cabins they might be connected to would be a nightmare - and probably impossible.

 

A ship's vertical fire zones have up to 60 cabins on several decks conected to each other via a shared ventilation system. Sometimes smoke from a cabin on one deck can end up in your cabin on another deck. Designating smoking on one deck and non-smoking on another would be a source of endless complaints/problems/lawsuits.

 

 

The only answers that really work are:

 

Go completely non-smoking and see if it bankrupts the cruise line. (Risky)

 

Establish a very strict system of smoking only in very few areas, and see if the cruise line can afford to lose the people who don't like it. (Somewhat Risky)

 

Build new ships with state of the art air handling systems that can handle smokers and non-smokers in confined areas. (Too expensive / unlikely)

 

Don't change anything. The ships are full and making money with the current system. Let the non-smokers keep complaining as long as they keep coming back. (Easy / No Risk - and most likely the way it will go)

[Gardyloo2]

Your post was so helpful! I was deathly ill last spring and haven't been on CC as much until recently. Completely missed that Celebrity had changed their policy until a couple of days ago, and the first thing that went through my head is many smokers would move to another line with more liberal policies. Little did I realize that line is HAL.

 

Our cruise is in less than a month and it's too late to make changes. I'm severely allergic to cigarette smoke. I like pipe smoke scent, but can't handle it either. First thing tomorrow morning, I'll call HAL and request the deep cleaning. We love HAL for so many reasons, but if we find an increase in smoking which hampers our health or enjoyment, we'll have to move to another line. Can't afford Oceania, so it'll be Celebrity until HAL changes things.

 

I also missed that Blue Skies Rita died; so sad. I'll truly miss her on this board.

[hulamoon]

For those getting the deep cleaning..Please report back and let us know if it worked for you.

 

BruceMuzz.. I knew I was getting smoke from other cabins from the vents, drives me nuts, how on earth can a deep cleaning help what comes in while in the middle of a cruise? Can it be filtered from the vent as it enters the cabin?

 

I would like to say thank you for everyone keeping this thread civil enough to not be deleted. I believe it is valuable for smokers and non smokers alike.

[BruceMuzz]

For those getting the deep cleaning..Please report back and let us know if it worked for you.

 

BruceMuzz.. I knew I was getting smoke from other cabins from the vents, drives me nuts, how on earth can a deep cleaning help what comes in while in the middle of a cruise? Can it be filtered from the vent as it enters the cabin?

 

I would like to say thank you for everyone keeping this thread civil enough to not be deleted. I believe it is valuable for smokers and non smokers alike.

 

Deep cleaning really does help. I have to go through this drama every week. It is truly amazing what my housekeeping superstars can accomplish.

 

No, it is not possible to filter out smoke that may be coming into your cabin from another.

 

But you should be aware that the the best way to get smoke and other odors from another cabin is to leave your balcony door (or cabin entrance door) open.

 

The ventilation system on most modern cruise ships is designed to keep an over-pressure of air inside your stateroom. This is a safety feature that will cause smoke and flames to go away from your cabin - rather than into it - during a fire.

 

If you leave your balcony or entrance door open, the over-pressure goes out the door. Then your ventilation system works overtime, robbing air from many of your neighbors, trying to build that over-pressure back up. If the door remains open, the over-pressure is never reached, and the system keeps pumping air from your neighbors' cabins. If those people are smokers- or not very clean - you will get those odors as well.

[hulamoon]

Maybe this explains some of the smoke on the last cruise, we had a stern balcony on the Eurodam and the only way to get WiFi was to leave the cabin door open, or log on from the sink. My husband had to check into work and I blogged through the cruise.

 

 

 

BruceMuzz, you sound like you are in the industry, do you work for HAL?

 

I guess all the inventors in the country are working on clean energy and not smoke free cabins. lol

 

Thank you...

 

I have worked hard to find a vacation these past weeks and I do wish HAL had better solutions that would be best for us for so many reasons.

[sapper1]

This is a very informative thread!

I have to admit somewhere around page 6, I started wondering if I have made a mistake booking our next cruise on HAL. This is my first time with HAL and we had heard such nice things about this cruise line. It just never occurred to me that the smoking thing was such a big issue! We have been on several cruises with other lines and have been able to avoid smoking areas, enjoy our balcony and have a cabin that does not make us sick. Smoke is a big health problem for us.

We are leaving in a few weeks on the Westerdam (too late to change now). We have 3 and 1/2 days at sea. Are the areas around the pool very smokey? What about the outdoor eating areas? We have an aft veranda - was that a huge mistake? I was so looking forward to being on the balcony and watching the wake! I am freaking out a little now.

I will request the deep cleaning - the residual smell can make me physically ill within hours.

I totally did not know this about HAL.

Ruth addressed the swimming pool smoke question so I will say that it is not difficult to avoid smokers on a HAL ship. The casino can get intense but I have never noticed smoke in the hallways or in my cabin-----or on the balcony. Maybe we have just been lucky but avoiding smoke has never been an onboard problem for us. I have more trouble avoiding ice cream.:) Since you have a wake balcony you should have not problem with a smoking neighbour as the smoke will be instantly sucked out to sea and left in the wake.

I should mention that I hate the smell of smoke and my eyes and nose start watering with very little smoke in the air. I say that to point out that even though I am very sensitive to smoke, I can't say that it has been a problem on a HAL ship.

Before I get jumped on by other posters, I am not saying that others have not had a problem----just that I haven't.

[BruceMuzz]

Maybe this explains some of the smoke on the last cruise, we had a stern balcony on the Eurodam and the only way to get WiFi was to leave the cabin door open, or log on from the sink. My husband had to check into work and I blogged through the cruise.

 

 

 

BruceMuzz, you sound like you are in the industry, do you work for HAL?

 

I guess all the inventors in the country are working on clean energy and not smoke free cabins. lol

 

Thank you...

 

I have worked hard to find a vacation these past weeks and I do wish HAL had better solutions that would be best for us for so many reasons.

 

I am in the industry and work for a HAL competitor.

My guess is that all the inventors in America could care less about clean energy or smoke free cabins. They are all trying to make a buck like everybody else.

 

"In God We Trust - (everybody else pays cash)"

 

We just need to make it clearly profitable to ban smoking - and it will all stop tomorrow.

[GeriatricNurse]

Ruth addressed the swimming pool smoke question so I will say that it is not difficult to avoid smokers on a HAL ship. The casino can get intense but I have never noticed smoke in the hallways or in my cabin-----or on the balcony. Maybe we have just been lucky but avoiding smoke has never been an onboard problem for us. I have more trouble avoiding ice cream. Since you have a wake balcony you should have not problem with a smoking neighbour as the smoke will be instantly sucked out to sea and left in the wake.

I should mention that I hate the smell of smoke and my eyes and nose start watering with very little smoke in the air. I say that to point out that even though I am very sensitive to smoke, I can't say that it has been a problem on a HAL ship.

Before I get jumped on by other posters, I am not saying that others have not had a problem----just that I haven't.

 

 

You are correct! You have been extremely lucky! Thus far.

[catl331]

Let the non-smokers keep complaining as long as they keep coming back. (Easy / No Risk - and most likely the way it will go)

And dupe them into thinking some changes are coming by taking a survey for several years!

I am in the industry and work for a HAL competitor.

Have you worked for HAL in the past?

[m steve]

i have not noticed any concentration of smoke in my cabin or balcony. The only time I did was on the last cruise on Island Princess where they had a small room with closed doors for smokers that had 8-10 seats and there was a grey cloud inside. But it didn't seep out and bother the large group at the piano bar a few feet away.

[hulamoon]

I hope changes come but no more holding my breath for it...

 

With the confirmation that the deep cleaning is great, (not sure I ever got one) but that smoke still seeps into rooms after the cleaning, I am getting why cabin smoking has been banned on ships.

[LHC]

On recent cruise, our favorite spot to watch ESPN was in the bar area beside the Casino. Seems to me you could put a sliding glass door like in the lido going to the deck and even an air purifier to keep in stinch in the casino.

No smoking would be great.

LHC (Linda)

[sail7seas]

I think it would be interesting to have the same people here participate in this same conversation five years from now. I'd be so interested to see if opinions had changed. Comments were very different.

Some of the smokers will have quit and perhaps will have an understanding of what the non-smokers are saying. There will be even fewer smokers in the population as a whole (worldwide) which will translate to even fewer on the ships.

 

More states/provinces/countries will have more rigid smoking policies and more people will be used to living in smoke free environments. Smoke will bother them more when they come to the ships thereby putting more pressure on cruiselines to limit smoking more severely.

 

Some of us will have suffered illnesses directly related to smoking and second hand smoke.

 

I think it would be quite eye opening to compare what is being said today vs what might be said five years from now.

 

Just thinking........... ;)

 

[madelinerose]

Even if smokers are not the previous passengers in the cabin, it does get into the upholstery and carpets and does linger, so for those of us with serious lung issues/allergies, it can be a problem; however my understanding is that unless you specifically request it, the deep cleaning only happens if smokers have been in the cabin directly before you. Anyhow, it's nice to have an option and be able to truly enjoy our cabin.Cheers,YaYa

 

 

Something to consider, however. There's always a possibility that the chemicals used in this "deep cleaning" may pose a problem to those with respiratory issues, i.e, carpet cleaner, etc. ;)

 

Also, I have no problem with smokers, just smoking. It's the addiction I choose to avoid, not the person with the addiction. My smoking friends will always be my smoking friends. ;)

[mallbucks]

Not sure about this, but if Carnival Corporation owns many of these mass market cruise lines (publicly owned corp.) would they care if one of these lines has a pro smoking policy as long as their bottom lines were being met overall?

 

 

 

Apparently HAL is still calculating that it would cost them more money to ban smoking.

[usha]

I think it would be interesting to have the same people here participate in this same conversation five years from now. I'd be so interested to see if opinions had changed. Comments were very different.

s7s, that would be interesting, especially when you consider how much has changed in just the last 5 years. :)

[MeganSmiles]

In our disembarkation folder last week, was a plain photo copied survey.

 

1. Are you a smoker?

 

2. Would you still travel with HAL if all staterooms, including verandahs, were smoke free?

 

3. Would you still travel with HAL if the entire ship was smoke free?

 

I think it would be a good idea if HAL sent the survey to potential passengers also. Maybe the people who wrote for a brochure should get one.

 

I have received brochures and special offers for over a year now, but never a survey.

 

I would tell them 'yes' to 2 & 3.

[Rustynail]

This is a very informative thread!

I have to admit somewhere around page 6, I started wondering if I have made a mistake booking our next cruise on HAL. This is my first time with HAL and we had heard such nice things about this cruise line. It just never occurred to me that the smoking thing was such a big issue! We have been on several cruises with other lines and have been able to avoid smoking areas, enjoy our balcony and have a cabin that does not make us sick. Smoke is a big health problem for us.

We are leaving in a few weeks on the Westerdam (too late to change now). We have 3 and 1/2 days at sea. Are the areas around the pool very smokey? What about the outdoor eating areas? We have an aft veranda - was that a huge mistake? I was so looking forward to being on the balcony and watching the wake! I am freaking out a little now.

I will request the deep cleaning - the residual smell can make me physically ill within hours.

I totally did not know this about HAL.

 

We missed this as well when we booked our first HAL cruise on the Eurodam next month. It's obviously far too early to suggest this will be an issue but if the balcony becomes a problem we will reconsider who we book with in the future.

[pms4104]

Just wondering ...

 

If HAL were to receive an enormous number of requests for deep-cleaning, even before passengers have embarked, would that additional cost and labor be sufficient for HAL to reconsider the smoking-in-the-cabin issue? And perhaps ban it?

[mountainmare]

I was new to cruisecritic and asked what I thought was an simple question. This was 2004--so you can see the discussion that long ago.

Have things really changed at all???http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=79638&highlight=

[sail7seas]

I was new to cruisecritic and asked what I thought was an simple question. This was 2004--so you can see the discussion that long ago.

Have things really changed at all???http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=79638&highlight=

 

 

 

We do not smoke. We used to. Sometimes, some second hand smoke does now moderately bother me. Not extreme but from time to time, I have moved away to avoid it.

 

I fail to understand how smoke from an adjoining veranda can be bothersome on a moving ship at sea. I truly don't know how it is the smoke from a cigarette does not dissipate before it can reach you on your veranda.

 

When docked in port, perhaps. But, particularly in the Caribbean, there are island breezes. Fresh air. I am sorry you are bothered by it and I am sure you are sincere, but I truly don't "get it".

 

As to what you should do about it IF you find yourself again bothered by neighbor's smoke......you must use your best judgment IMO. Do what you think most appropriate

 

 

 

 

 

The above is what I wrote five + years ago. I think it demonstrates the point I have been trying to make.

 

In Answer to your question: Yes, things have changed.

Because we live in a smoke free state, we have lost our tolerance to be around smoke. It is never in our everyday life. When I wrote that post those years ago, we were still being exposed to more smoke at home than now. We then had friends that smoked, parties might be smokey but not now. Now I don't see a person smoking or smell it from one week to the next. I can go a month and not see a smoker. Five years ago, that was not the case.

 

Earlier today, I suggested it would be fun to have the same people posting in this thread discuss this issue five years from now.

 

I suspect many, like me, will be saying considerably different things.

If their state becomes smoke free and they are not exposed to smoke, they will hate smelling it on the ships.

 

Thanks for going to the trouble to find an old thread like that. Interesting. :)

 

 

[/b]

[mountainmare]

Sail--my point was that while some people may have a different view (and you are correct, things in general have changed in society) the general discussion is pretty much the same.

This was not directed at you personally, I did not mean it that way. This was one of my first posts and I had no idea at the time how people would react. Since you asked about seeing the future discussion and I remembered that instead of a simple answer I got a debate I thought I would see if it was still around.

[sail7seas]

I think it's GREAT you went to the trouble to pull that forward.

As you say, I made that exact comment earlier....... how interesting for the same people to have the same conversation five years from now.

 

There has been considerable change in the past five years and I imagine there will be more in the coming five years.

 

 

 

 

[RuthC]

Just wondering ...

 

If HAL were to receive an enormous number of requests for deep-cleaning, even before passengers have embarked, would that additional cost and labor be sufficient for HAL to reconsider the smoking-in-the-cabin issue? And perhaps ban it?

Can I hear you thinking? ;)

 

Perhaps that would be HAL's response. More likely, they would stop pre-need requests for the deep-cleaning. It could only be requested after boarding.

And if there were too many requests where there did not appear to be a need, they could require an inspection by someone assigned that duty before the on-board request was granted.

[suse]

book an inside cabin, no smoke smell from the veranda.