Hand Sanitizing

[PROCRUISE]

We were on The Noordam 4/25-4/4/10 and I forgot to pass a compliment along to HAL requiring hand washing in the buffet and MDR areas.

 

As an ER/Trauma RN I know the importance of hand washing, especially on a ship. I believe all cruise lines now have hand sanitizers placed around on their ships. I'm always somewhat taken back, however, at how few people use them, on their own, when entering a food service.

 

On our cruise, ship crew members where always stationed at these areas to pleasantly insist that one washed their hands before entering. I have no idea if this is done on every HAL ship on every cruise, but I was impressed. Thank you HAL-one more example of how to care about your passengers!

[Krazy Kruizers]

HAL has had the hand sanitizers on all the ships for a few years now -- not new.

 

But we have noticed that on some ships the crew do keep reminding people to use them while on other ships -- people just by pass them and no one ever saids a word to them.

 

I keep a small bottle of Purell in our back-pack for when we are off the ship.

 

And I also keep a small bottle on the sink in the cabin bathroom.

[cruie4ever]

Absolutely it is necessary to sanitize hands before eating & all cruise lines must have those sanitizing devices readily available at entries to food service .Thus ,the number of large cases of nuro would be few & far between .

[zorrosuncle]

Greetings -- Lately, I, on the advice of my sister, have been trying a non-alcohol-based sanitizer. The one I am using now is made by Gold Bond and it is a combination of sanitizer and moisterizer. The active ingrediant is benzethonium chloride, and it is rated "kills 99.99 % of germs." It apparently doesn't dry out your skin like alcohol - based ones do.

 

ZU

[Krazy Kruizers]

The Purell machines on board the ships just use the regular hand sanitizer which will dry out your hands.

 

I buy the ones with Aloe in it.

[TiogaCruiser]

Procruise, we noticed the same thing. On our September 08 cruise, the steward in charge of trays took our room number and reminded all pax to use the cleanser prior to getting a tray. However, on our June 09 trip, there were no longer trays and no staff reminding pax to santiize. Very few people used the sanitized.

[Hlitner]

Normal alcohol-based hand sanitizers such as the standard Purell formula are nearly worthless against the Norovirus. This is why some cruise lines have stopped stressing the use of these things and encourage the washing of hands with soap and water (this is effective against Noro).

 

Hank

[Ontariotrekker]

We were on the Oosterdam in November and the hand sanitizers were everywhere. We also noticed that the crew were constantly wiping down all the handrails on the stairs and walkways. They would even call an elevator to wipe down the rails and the push button surfaces.

[PROCRUISE]

Normal alcohol-based hand sanitizers such as the standard Purell formula are nearly worthless against the Norovirus. This is why some cruise lines have stopped stressing the use of these things and encourage the washing of hands with soap and water (this is effective against Noro).

 

Hank

 

Germstar Noro is the standard 63% ethyl alcohol based hand sanitizer but is highly effective in reducing norovirus. Certainly agree that soap and water is best.

 

If anyone is interested, there is also a 2 step oral vaccine, taken in advance of travel, called Dukoral, if one is going to be in a travel situation where gastroenteritis is a possible concern. Probably not needed for a cruise, but I'll be taking it prior to our 2 weeks in Egypt in Sept.

 

I enjoy the shared information one gets on CC.

[mmlpt]

I work in healthcare & use sanitizer & wash my hands at least 100 times per day. I can not however, enjoy a meal with any type of sanitizer on my hands. I wash my hands before I eat, use paper towels to turn off H2O, paper towel to open door & do not touch any one or anything before eating. Please do not look @ me funny when I decline sanitizer!

[jhannah]

The thing about the gel sanitizers is that the little squirt dispensed doesn't do a thorough job. If you read instructions for using them, they will tell you to really get your hands wet with it, rubbing vigorously until it dissipates. I always get at least 2 squirts.

 

mmltp, you do well with your method.

[Boytjie]

They installed hand sanitizers at work - for the flu season - with one at every elevator bank on every floor.

 

It cracks me up to see people come in - most probably after a ride on the NY subway - get a quick squirt of hand sanitizer and rub it around their hands in the time it takes 4 steps. I am sure they think their hands are clean...

 

The sanitizers may be of some use but I think it is more of a show of 'we are doing something' and makes people feel that they are actually cleaner than the really are.

[jtl513]

There's a lot of debate on just how much good the santizers do. BruceMuzz (a long-time on-board employee of several cruise lines) has posted on this forum about how Noro rates have actually dropped on ships that have eliminated the santizer stations all over the place, possibly because people don't rely on them as a substitute for good and frequent hand washing. I think he said Carnival was one such line. I'll see if I can dig up the post.

 

Edit: here is the post, but the whole thread is good

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=19328763

[Himself]

HAL has had them for quite a while and I have noticed on the last few cruises that the dining room and Lido people insist that the hands be sanitzied when you enter. I think it is a good thing. When returning to ship, they are at the bottom of the gangway and they insist that one use them before boarding the ship.

[RuthC]

The sanitizers may be of some use but I think it is more of a show of 'we are doing something' and makes people feel that they are actually cleaner than the really are.

I know my hands are cleaner because of the sanitizers. After using it I run to a sink and wash the stuff off with soap and hot water. ;)

[BruceMuzz]

jtl,

 

It was actually the CDC who recommended that cruise lines remove the hand sanitizers.

It is not that they are bad. But FAR TOO MANY cruisers use them improperly.

 

Far too often they are used as a REPLACEMENT for handwashing, rather than an ADJUNCT to handwashing - as recommended by the suppliers, the cruise lines, and the CDC.

 

jhannah also made a very astute observation. Most people spray a small amount in their hands, smear it around quickly, and it evaporates within 20 seconds. This defeats most of the beneficial effect of the product.

 

The amount placed on your hands must not only cover them completely - but the wet alcohol compound MUST also stay in contact with your skin for at least 1 minute to be completely effective.

 

Why did the CDC recommend that we remove the hand sanitizers?

They discovered that ships that have the sanitizers everywhere actually have higher numbers of outbreaks than ships that have no sanitizers at all.

They further recommended that cruise lines keep the sanitizers in storage and use them only in case there is an outbreak.

 

The thinking is that when an outbreak occurs, the sanitizers suddenly showing up, accompanied with reduced self-service and reduced activities, in tandem with frequent reminders to wash your hands might actually get the attention of some of those raised by wolves who are now cruising. In that situation, the sanitizers would probably be used properly more often - hopefully assisting in curbing the outbreak.

 

If you go to the CDC website (http://www.cdc.gov )(VSP Page) and look at the outbreak histories, you will notice that the cruise lines that use hand sanitizers most often (HAL and NCL) have had the highest number of outbreaks over the past decade. HAL has especially high numbers.

 

The cruise lines that use hand sanitizers least often (Disney and Carnival) have had the lowest number of outbreaks over the past decade.

 

Most interesting, if you look at the number of outbreaks recorded for RCCL each year, you can actually tell which year they decided to follow the CDC recommendation to remove their hand sanitizers. The rather high number of outbreaks they suffered while using hand sanitizers dropped to zero as soon as they removed the sanitizers.

 

Are hand sanitizers bad??

DEFINITELY NOT - IF USED PROPERLY. That's a very big IF.

 

But far too many of today's cruisers are either not bright enough, not clean enough, or not knowledgeable enough to use them properly.

 

People like to make all sorts of rationalizations about why HAL has so many outbreaks:

 

Some say that the smaller HAL ships require fewer cases to qualify for an outbreak.

Seabourn has far smaller ships than HAL and has never had any outbreaks. (They also do not use the hand sanitizers)

 

Some say that HAL's longer cruises allow more time for more passengers to contract the virus - leading to higher numbers.

Crystal Cruises has many more longer cruises than HAL, rarely uses sanitizers, and has far fewer outbreaks, per ship, than HAL.

 

Some say that the older average age of HAL cruisers (perhaps with weaker immune systems) could result in a higher infection rate.

The HAL Vista ships have an average passenger age of just 46. That's younger than Princess. Yet they seem to be having more outbreaks than the smaller HAL ships with the frequently older passengers.

 

Children also are famous for weaker immune systems - and the propensity for putting all sorts of nasty things in their mouths. A certain percentage of them are not the cleanest creatures in the world. Disney has a high percentage of children on just about every one of their cruises. They generally follow the CDC recommendations and do not offer hand sanitizers around their ships. Disney has had nearly zero outbreaks in the past decade.

 

What is HAL doing wrong?

Hand sanitizers.

[Gablin]

A friend who is in medicine told me her opinion of hand sanitizers. She said (as some have said here) that most people use too small an amount, and do not keep their hands wet with it long enough to do any good.

 

She said to me, "If you were falling down, face first, into a barnyard, and put your hands out to break your fall, would you be content with a squirt or two of Purell to clean your hands? Or, would you prefer warm water, soap and a nail brush to get rid of what is on your hands.?"

 

I do keep a small bottle of it in my purse and another larger bottle in the car, thinking that using it is better than doing nothing at all about dirty hands.

[jhannah]

Far too often they are used as a REPLACEMENT for handwashing, rather than an ADJUNCT to handwashing ...

Thanks for the great information, Bruce. Good stuff. But this quote is the spot-on danger in using sanitizing gels. After a thorough washing, the gel is "icing on the cake." Sadly, vast numbers of people do not wash their hands unless they've been working in the garden. Just observe people in public bathrooms. :eek:

[zorrosuncle]

Greetings --

 

Which leads one to the question: What is the best type of soap to use?

 

ZU

[PROCRUISE]

Thanks for the great information, Bruce. Good stuff. But this quote is the spot-on danger in using sanitizing gels. After a thorough washing, the gel is "icing on the cake." Sadly, vast numbers of people do not wash their hands unless they've been working in the garden. Just observe people in public bathrooms. :eek:

 

Wow, had no idea my simple little HAL compliment would cause such a debate. I must admit, I assumed(there was my mistake) that people wash their hands often and use the sanitizer as a little extra protection.

 

Regardless, I'll keep on washing AND sanitizing, otherwise the germs always win outright!

[Hlitner]

If anyone is interested, there is also a 2 step oral vaccine, taken in advance of travel, called Dukoral, if one is going to be in a travel situation where gastroenteritis is a possible concern. Probably not needed for a cruise, but I'll be taking it prior to our 2 weeks in Egypt in Sept.

 

I enjoy the shared information one gets on CC.

 

I believe that Dukoral is an oral drug that is intended to prevent Cholora! Not sure what this has to do with Noro or other bacteria or viruses found on cruise ships. We have never heard of a case of Cholora on a cruise!

 

Hank

[Hlitner]

Wow, had no idea my simple little HAL compliment would cause such a debate. I must admit, I assumed(there was my mistake) that people wash their hands often and use the sanitizer as a little extra protection.

 

Regardless, I'll keep on washing AND sanitizing, otherwise the germs always win outright!

 

This issue had been debated, among medical experts, for several years and there have been a few articles published in medical and scientific journals regarding research. We happened to meet a CDC doctor on a RCI cruise (he was on the ship to lecture and train the crew) who was nice enough to take some time to explain to us why they had found basic hand sanitizers to be nearly worthless against Noro. He also mentioned it was an uphill battle for the CDC because of all the money put into marketing by the hand sanitzer industry. He told us that he seldom used sanitizers and simply washed his hands in soap and water multiple times per day. He also told us that it made no sense to wash your hands in a public bathroom and then touch the door (or door knob) on the way out of the bathroom and that they were trying to get cruise lines to change their bathroom doors so passengers did not have to physically touch to open. He suggested using a paper towel to open the doors.

 

Hank

[Bars7816]

NCL has a crew member at each station, too. My hands were on fire from all the sanitizer use on our last cruise. I'm hoping some new formulas are available for we delicate types. ;)

[jtl513]

I believe that Dukoral is an oral drug that is intended to prevent Cholora! Not sure what this has to do with Noro or other bacteria or viruses found on cruise ships. We have never heard of a case of Cholora on a cruise!

 

Hank

From Wikipedia:

 

Dukoral is a vaccine against cholera and traveler's diarrhea.

[midwest 852]

Disney Cruise Line has Hand Sanitizing gel all over their ships just like HAL. I Can't tell you

how many times on HAL when a passenger is asked to use the sanitizer they refuse and insist that they just washed their hands before they left their room! And while on the elevator with them they push the floor button, rub their nose & fix their hair! When a child is told to use the gel they just do it.

Whats the big deal use the sanitizing gel please!