Birth Certificate not good enough?!

[mferris77]

Hi all -

 

I live close to Port Canaveral and am actually scheduled to cruise on the Dream in 2+ weeks.

 

I heard from a friend whose close relative works at the port in a fairly high position who said that on more than one occasion recently they have had to escort some would-be passengers out of the port due to not having proper documentation.

 

In these cases it was that some or all members of the party only had birth certificates. Yes, I know this is "heard it from a friend" territory but I have no doubt that people were prevented from boarding for some reason. I think they may be confused as to the exact reason why they were kept off of the ship.

 

This has happened as recently as this past week (heard about it from them today because they know we are about to cruise and were concerned that we only have BC's and were afraid the same thing would happen to us). Some of the details we were told:

 

- The family were US residents and lived in a southeastern state (not immigrants)

- With the exception of one family member who had a passport, everyone else had birth certificates

- I believe this was a family with children, but the kids all had BC's

- This person says that they had what the cruise line requires (BC + ID) but it is ultimately up to the ship to decide what documents are valid

- They even called some very high Carnival officials and said they could do nothing to help them

- The family was ultimately unable to board the ship and did not receive a refund

 

 

Now, I find this very hard to believe, but at the same time I have no reason to disbelieve the person that this information is coming from. I think they must be confused on some of the details. At the same time, it scares the hell out of me because I'm due to leave on the Dream in two weeks and have no time to get a passport.

 

I'm thinking that maybe this family only had photocopies of their birth certificates, or maybe there was a divorcee involved who was preventing the children from leaving the country or something like that.. I can't think of too many other reasons why someone with a BC would be barred from boarding. And I would have to think that any given ship or sailing would have a large number of passengers who were only carrying birth certificates.

 

So has anyone heard of anything like this happening recently? Any idea why a party would be denied boarding even when they have their birth certificates?

 

Just to be safe I'm going to bring along a copy of Carnival's documentation policy as well as the government's 'closed-loop cruise' documentation requirements.

[kujobie]

It's a lie. Official BC is still good to cruise. Not a copy, official BC with raised seal. A photo copy of a BC is as good as a photo copy of a passport. Worthless. But an original or official BC will get you on the ship.

[skylock]

I honestly think in that families case it was a misunderstanding on what an official birth certificate is.

 

Several people who have cruised with me have not had an official birth certificate even though they sore it was. I have learned. The next day after they decide to go, I check out their birthcertificates.

 

That is why the cost of a passport is sooooo worth it. You do not have to worry about that kind of problem. Several people that have gone with me have had to pay almost what a passport would cost just to get an official birth certificate.

[Essiesmom]

I would be willing to bet that some of the 'birth certificates' were the fancy souvenir ones that the hospital gives you. EM

[sorcamc]

Just sailed out of NY on the Miracle and (DOH) only brought BCs for my three children. I figured with NJ's very strict regulations for a Drivers License, that a photo id and backup ID were all DH and I would need...pretty stupid, but when I saw passports weren't required, I figured our licenses were what was needed. We arrived at port and thought we were going to have to go back home. The supervisor asked if we could get copies faxed over and that is what we did. So in our case, a faxed BC worked. MAybe since we had the kids ones, they figured ours were legit.

[noblepa]

Hi all -

 

- The family were US residents and lived in a southeastern state (not immigrants)

 

US resident is not equal to US citizen. Were they US citizens? If not, then a BC would NOT suffice, even if they are legal residents.

 

Yes, a photocopy or other non-certified copy of a BC would be problematic. A photocopy of a BC is essentially worthless, just like a photocopy of a passport.

 

It is also possible that the BC's did not have raised seals. Some states have stopped embossing BC with official seals and are indicating in some other way that this is a certified copy of the original. It is possible that someone at the pier does not know how to recognize such a BC and is blindly following the "rule" that it must have a raised seal to be valid. CCL's policy says only that you must have a certified copy of your BC.

 

While some things are left to the discretion of the ship's captain, I find it hard to believe that this would be one of those things. If a passenger showed up at the pier with documentation that conformed to Carnival's PUBLISHED IDENTIFICATION POLICY and to that of the US Immigration and Customs Enforcement agency, yet were denied boarding, I would think that they would have a valid claim for a refund, regardless of CCL's contract language. I'm not a lawyer, but I think that, in court, they would even be able to collect their airfare and other travel expenses. In short, if the passenger complied with the terms of the cruise contract, and CCL didn't, the passenger would win.

 

There are also BC's issued by agencies other than states. If you know someone in HR at your job, ask to see the form that new hires must complete to prove they have a right to work in the US. There are at least ten different kinds of BC's, including those issued by military hospitals, US embassies in foreign countries, the Panama Canal zone, and a bunch of others that most of us have never encountered. How about if you were born in a US possession, like Guam? You're still a US citizen, but the CCL pier clerk may not know that.

 

In short, there isn't enough detailed information to know what really happened.

 

Personally, I'd bet it was a photocopy. That seems the most plausible.

 

Paul

[CRZCRAZY]

I have seen people with the hospital copy think that was a Birth Cert. It could be these people tried to use them and now "they were denied boarding even with BCs" We don't have the rest of the story....

[F5Loar]

Certified is certifed and nothing else is certified so my guess is what they had was not certified. If you don't know if yours is certified then they won't either. Ask someone who does know before you go to the port. First you pay extra to get it certified. Many just go to their courthouse in the county they were born in and ask for a copy of their BC. They pay a fee and think since it came directly from the courthouse it is automatically certified. Not so. Certified cost more and that is what is required for the closed loop ID plus a gov. issue photo ID such as a DL. Children under 12 don't need that but usually a school photo ID works along with the certified BC.

So bottom line if you got a certified BC and a valid US DL you are good to go in a closed loop cruise.

[woodey]

if it is not a closed loop cruise it needs to be a Passport...Are you sure it was a Carnival Ship. or another Cruise Line

[JonnyCruiser]

My apologies if this was already pointed out or if it does not apply, however...

 

It is not enough to have a birth certificate; if the passenger is 16 or older, he/she must also have a government-issued photo ID which ties the person on the birth certificate to the person standing in front of the cruise agent.

 

Without the photo id with name matching the name on birth certificate, you are not going to board the ship.

[zqvol]

 

Just to be safe I'm going to bring along a copy of Carnival's documentation policy as well as the government's 'closed-loop cruise' documentation requirements.

 

Why bother? If the people doing the boarding say that your documentation is not sufficient then all the policies and printouts, etc., are worth less than the paper that they are printed on.

 

If you want to avoid problems make sure that you have either a passport or a certified birth certificate and a state issued ID for everyone over 16.

[zqvol]

It's a lie. Official BC is still good to cruise. Not a copy, official BC with raised seal. A photo copy of a BC is as good as a photo copy of a passport. Worthless. But an original or official BC will get you on the ship.

 

No raised seal is required. The birth certificate must be issued by a governmental agency and it must be certified. Most agencies no longer use raised seals, and have not for a number of years.

[CruzVinnieCruz]

I honestly think in that families case it was a misunderstanding on what an official birth certificate is.

 

Several people who have cruised with me have not had an official birth certificate even though they sore it was. I have learned. The next day after they decide to go, I check out their birthcertificates.

 

That is why the cost of a passport is sooooo worth it. You do not have to worry about that kind of problem. Several people that have gone with me have had to pay almost what a passport would cost just to get an official birth certificate.

 

They would have had to pay for an official birth certificate to apply for a passport anyway so they still save $135.00 each. Unless I am missing something.

[Emmabelle]

I would be willing to bet that some of the 'birth certificates' were the fancy souvenir ones that the hospital gives you. EM

 

 

:D I laughed when I read this one! ;)

[Tonkel]

Just remember, If you are stuck or injured in a foreign port, you will NOT be able to FLY back to the U.S. without a passport. So while it may not be necessary for boarding (yet) it might be good to have anyway. (And the Passport cards--not valid for Air travel outside U.S.)

[astropilot]

I would be willing to bet that some of the 'birth certificates' were the fancy souvenir ones that the hospital gives you. EM

 

That would be my guess as well. It MUST be an OFFICAL document issued by the state, where you/your child was born.

[CruzVinnieCruz]

Just remember, If you are stuck or injured in a foreign port, you will NOT be able to FLY back to the U.S. without a passport. So while it may not be necessary for boarding (yet) it might be good to have anyway. (And the Passport cards--not valid for Air travel outside U.S.)

 

No the U.S. leaves injured citizens in foreign ports everyday. The issue of needing a passport or not needing one for closed loop cruising has been decided for the foreseeable future. The DW is a flight attendant and on two occasions brought passengers back from the Caribbean with faxed permission to fly from the State Department (no passports). The only thing that happened from the airlines side is those passengers had to be pointed out to officials upon arrival. They showed I.D. were questioned and on their way in ten minutes.

 

Not sure of the circumstance or how they got the someone to fax the airlines but those passengers did not have to swim back.

[CJinFLA00]

To add a comment, when I applied for my passport about 6 years ago, I was told by the government agency that my "so called" birth certificate was not official. It was actually a birth announcement that the hospitals gave out. I was shocked and surprised as I had used this my entire life for ID (I'm 45). I found the hospital on the internet and ordered my official document. So perhaps this was the case here. The BC were not official ones. This seems to be more common than people realize. I feel bad for this family getting turned away from their cruise.

[StevieG]

Certified is certifed and nothing else is certified so my guess is what they had was not certified. If you don't know if yours is certified then they won't either. Ask someone who does know before you go to the port. First you pay extra to get it certified. Many just go to their courthouse in the county they were born in and ask for a copy of their BC. They pay a fee and think since it came directly from the courthouse it is automatically certified. Not so. Certified cost more and that is what is required for the closed loop ID plus a gov. issue photo ID such as a DL. Children under 12 don't need that but usually a school photo ID works along with the certified BC.

So bottom line if you got a certified BC and a valid US DL you are good to go in a closed loop cruise.

 

North Carolina must be tougher than most states. My wife recieved her certified copy here in Maine for $10. We went to the city building they pulled the original, copied and embossed it. (They also offer wallet sized certified copies which she also purchased) I could not find my original BC so I sent to NY for mine $50 later I also had a certified copy and there was not an alternative, all copies were certified. What I am saying is it will depend upon the state you live in. We only switched to a passport when they came up with the idea of forcing cruisers to use them Of course they have yet to follow through so BC are still alowed.

[StevieG]

To add a comment, when I applied for my passport about 6 years ago, I was told by the government agency that my "so called" birth certificate was not official. It was actually a birth announcement that the hospitals gave out. I was shocked and surprised as I had used this my entire life for ID (I'm 45). I found the hospital on the internet and ordered my official document. So perhaps this was the case here. The BC were not official ones. This seems to be more common than people realize. I feel bad for this family getting turned away from their cruise.

 

The official birth certificate is not issued by the hospital it is issued by a government agency. So if you have a hospital BC it is more than likely not the official one.

[firefly333]

 

This has happened as recently as this past week (heard about it from them today because they know we are about to cruise and were concerned that we only have BC's and were afraid the same thing would happen to us). Some of the details we were told:

 

- The family were US residents and lived in a southeastern state (not immigrants)

- With the exception of one family member who had a passport, everyone else had birth certificates

- I believe this was a family with children, but the kids all had BC's

- This person says that they had what the cruise line requires (BC + ID) but it is ultimately up to the ship to decide what documents are valid

- They even called some very high Carnival officials and said they could do nothing to help them

- The family was ultimately unable to board the ship and did not receive a refund

 

Now, I find this very hard to believe, but at the same time I have no reason to disbelieve the person that this information is coming from.

 

the fact that you would even type this indicates a BIG reason to disbelieve them. Of course its not up to the ship.

 

The United Stated gov't sets these rules ...not the ship. All you would have to do is look on the govt site. Closed loop cruises out of the U.S. to most ports do not require passports.

[linda_22003]

I just don't understand why so many people still don't want to get passports. The excuse of "I won't use it very often" is silly - they last ten years, and you don't know right now how often you'll use it. I'm 55 and have had a passport for over forty years. It's no big deal.

[jdro]

I'm not sure if I am understanding correctly...myself, husband, son(17) and daughter (12) will cruise from and back to Baltimore will we be able to use just a BC and license? I just went on the passport website and it will be over $500 I'd rather spend that on the cruise!!! Also does th US have a consulate in Nassau an Freeport?

[Tonkel]

No the U.S. leaves injured citizens in foreign ports everyday. The issue of needing a passport or not needing one for closed loop cruising has been decided for the foreseeable future. The DW is a flight attendant and on two occasions brought passengers back from the Caribbean with faxed permission to fly from the State Department (no passports). The only thing that happened from the airlines side is those passengers had to be pointed out to officials upon arrival. They showed I.D. were questioned and on their way in ten minutes.

 

Not sure of the circumstance or how they got the someone to fax the airlines but those passengers did not have to swim back.

 

I was only pointing out that a passport would save someone what could amount to a big hassle. I am sure arrangements can be made, but I would rather not add stress to an already stressful situation.

And while it may take a fax and ten minutes at arrival for some, what about the ones that don't go so smoothly. I, personally, would rather not find out I was in the latter group at the worst possible time.

 

While the poster was inquiring about the need of a passport for boarding ships on a closed circuit cruise-- to which the answer is "no", some may find it worth the money for a passport to avoid complications that could occur when an unplanned problem arises.

[imnance]

you will NOT be able to FLY back to the U.S. without a passport.

 

Of course you will.:rolleyes: