Is it time to change the policy on auto tipping?

[Sea King]

I couldn't help but notice that one of the reactions to the cancellation of 3 port visits on Maasdam was for certain passengers to "opt out" of the automatic tipping right at the last moment.

 

Disappointment is one thing: dissatisfaction with performance of the crew is another; punishing crew members by removing the automatic tipping from one's bill just at about the end of a cruise is IMO simply unfair.

 

I believe it's time Seattle established a new policy.

 

On embarkation, each passenger is handed a simple 1, 2 or 3 paragraph letter from HAL explaining the company's automatic tipping policy; then comes a simple sentence in BOLD TYPE: the passenger has the option of removing the auto tip from his/her account for a period of 72 hours or 3 days from sailing; after that, the option is no longer available.

 

IMHO, what's right is right and what's wrong is wrong.

 

What are your thoughts?

[m steve]

Whether you miss a port or visit all scheduled ones, the staff is still providing the same service and deserve the $10-12 a day per person. I think that the people who opt out usually don't tip in any manner. I think that the auto tip is a minimum and we always tip more. Nany people from other countries never tip and this insures that the staff are compensated.

[debsjc]

The problem with that idea is that someone may receive bad service after the initial 3 days.

Also you could have a situation where service generally is not as good, because the staff know the 3 day policy - however I do think that is unlikely on HAL, as they are all so good.

 

I can't imagine ever wanting to remove the auto-tip, but I think you have to give people the option. Otherwise just add it in to initial cruise fare, and make a no-tipping policy.

[VermeulT]

the passenger has the option of removing the auto tip from his/her account for a period of 72 hours or 3 days from sailing; after that, the option is no longer available.

 

This wouldn't work and isn't right. If you are going to not tip - or reduce your tip - one would HOPE it's due to poor service. You won't know after 3 days if the staff deserves to loose their tip - and if it isn't up to par on the first 3 days - what if they improve and ultimately deserve it?

[sail7seas]

Sounds like an excellent idea to me.

How in the world can anyone justify punishing the crew by withholding tips due to an Act of God?

 

We were on that cruise and I can tell you that every crew person (be them Officer/ crew/ staff) we encountered on Maasdam gave 100% in their attempts to please the guests and provide the best cruise possible. Following the announcement about Hurricane Earl interrupting our cruise, crew went into 'overdrive' and it seemed they went to extremes in efforts to salvage a happy, cruise mood aboard. They worked even harder, if that is possible to describe. Despite their efforts, it is true it felt as though the cruise ended at the time of the announcement. The mood was absolutely different.

 

I think the deadbeats who removed the tips were looking for any reason to be their cheap selves at the expense of hardworking people doing their jobs so well with every ounce of extra effort they possessed.

 

IMO, there should be a way in the computer to make a mark against their names identifying them as 'guests ?' HAL could well do without and refuse to sell them a future cruise. If they punish the crew in that way, who needs their cheap business?

 

[twodogmom]

It have always tipped, but on my last cruise on the Rotterdam (over 30 day cruise), I had the worst cabin steward I have ever had. I complained, the cabin got cleaned for a couple of days and back to his old ways. I should have removed the gratuity for cabin service, but I didn't. I was a solo, but this had never made a difference before.

 

For the person that suggested after 72 hours the tip would remain. This was an over 30 day cruise, and you keep hoping the cleaning would get better. In fact, it got worse the further on. I even called in to complain, it got better for a couple of days, then back to his normal ways. So in this case the 72 hours wouldn't work. If this ever happens again, I will call and complain, and keep calling. Then I will remove the gratuity.

[PaulMCO]

It have always tipped, but on my last cruise on the Rotterdam (over 30 day cruise), I had the worst cabin steward I have ever had. I complained, the cabin got cleaned for a couple of days and back to his old ways. I should have removed the gratuity for cabin service, but I didn't. I was a solo, but this had never made a difference before.

 

For the person that suggested after 72 hours the tip would remain. This was an over 30 day cruise, and you keep hoping the cleaning would get better. In fact, it got worse the further on. I even called in to complain, it got better for a couple of days, then back to his normal ways. So in this case the 72 hours wouldn't work. If this ever happens again, I will call and complain, and keep calling. Then I will remove the gratuity.

 

I always thought it goes into a pool. So if you don't tip the others that are giving great service suffer. I always give more if the service is good - a separate envelope at the end of the cruise is always appreciated. Even using anytime dining if we find a good waiter we always ask for his table.

 

The best way to make your disservice known is via the survey by specifically mentioning the bad service person (or good service person) by name.

[3rdGenCunarder]

It have always tipped, but on my last cruise on the Rotterdam (over 30 day cruise), I had the worst cabin steward I have ever had. I complained, the cabin got cleaned for a couple of days and back to his old ways. I should have removed the gratuity for cabin service, but I didn't. I was a solo, but this had never made a difference before.

 

For the person that suggested after 72 hours the tip would remain. This was an over 30 day cruise, and you keep hoping the cleaning would get better. In fact, it got worse the further on. I even called in to complain, it got better for a couple of days, then back to his normal ways. So in this case the 72 hours wouldn't work. If this ever happens again, I will call and complain, and keep calling. Then I will remove the gratuity.

 

The problem with removing your gratuity is that it affects the pool, as previously posted. Removing your gratuity tells the cruise line that you are dissatisfied, but it's hard to tie this action specifically to one part of the service. Removing your gratuity could also affect your waiters (if you have fixed dining).

 

If service is bad, complain. If it doesn't get better, or doesn't stay better, complain again. If you've been talking to someone at the front office, ask to speak to a supervisor/superior. That helps to emphasize your point.

 

I agree with PaulMCO. Use names in your passenger summary. In all my cruises, I've mentioned a name in a negative way only once (asst CD who was rude and stupid). But I have often mentioned names in a positive way. Names on questionaires get noticed by the cruise line, both positives and negatives.

 

And to get back to the original question, perhaps the front desk should be required to ask for a reason for removing the gratuity. A few questions on a form--what, if anything was wrong with cabin servie? what, if anything was wrong with table service? etc. Or maybe they do that already, we've never removed the autotip.

 

I think it's horrible that pax removed the autotip because of the hurricane. I can understand being unhappy and complaining about it to HAL or to the front desk (who probably had to listen to a lot of complaints). I wouldn't complain because I understand that HAL can't control a hurricane. But people were disappointed and that made some of them cranky. But to punish the people who have the least to do with the changes, and who make the least money, is disgusting.

[Krazy Kruizers]

That 72 hour thing might work on 7 day cruises. But for longer cruises -- I for one would not like to see that ruling.

 

I did read about people removing the Hotel Service Charge just because they missed 3 ports -- just plain stupid. In 2009 we missed 4 ports because of the Swine Flu -- picked up only 1 port -- and the rest were all sea days. I guess we were lucky that we were sailing with a more mature group as I didn't hear complaints of all those sea days. And the crew -- staff -- everyone had to work etra hard to keep everyone entertained -- which they did a great job of.

[debsjc]

This policy seems madness, surely you should be able to remove an auto-tip just for the person who has delivered bad service?

In the case of twodogmom, where the situation was bought to Hal's attention and did not improve, one should be able to remove the tips to that staff member who is not going a good job, without effecting the others.

 

What everyone on here seems to be saying is that you dare not remove an auto-service charge even if you receive bad service, which does not improve after complaining?

[3rdGenCunarder]

This policy seems madness, surely you should be able to remove an auto-tip just for the person who has delivered bad service?

In the case of twodogmom, where the situation was bought to Hal's attention and did not improve, one should be able to remove the tips to that staff member who is not going a good job, without effecting the others.

 

What everyone on here seems to be saying is that you dare not remove an auto-service charge even if you receive bad service, which does not improve after complaining?

 

No, we aren't saying that. Or at least, I'm not. The point is that removing the autotip does not punish the person who gave bad service, because your tip goes into a pool, not to your specific stewards. I don't think you can ask that your cabin steward's portion of your tip be withheld--not because this isn't deserved, but because the system isn't set up to do that.

[sail7seas]

<snip>

What everyone on here seems to be saying is that you dare not remove an auto-service charge even if you receive bad service, which does not improve after complaining?

 

 

 

Not at all. I certainly didn't say that and I don't see anyone else did.

 

Removal of tips for unsatisfactory service is very different than removal of tips because of Act of God named Hurricane Earl interrupting our cruise.

 

If the goal is to have the best possible cruise with service to a level you think reasonable, if you are not receiving it, don't wait until the end of the cruise to remove tips. That won't get you the cruise you wanted or the service you expected. All that does is save money. Do as others here have said they did....... speak up. Continue to speak up and go up the chain of command if the unsatisfactory situation continues. If, at the end of the cruise, it never got rectified to your satisfaction than by all means make your feelings known in your comment sheet and if you feel appropriate, remove the hotel service charge.

 

I would be very, very sorry to hear a reasonable person requested attention to an on-going situation and could not get it improved to any level of satisfaction on any HAL ship but should that happen, it would hugely unacceptable and you should act as you think appropriate.

 

[Ocean Travler]

 

What everyone on here seems to be saying is that you dare not remove an auto-service charge even if you receive bad service, which does not improve after complaining?

 

Although I respect your comment, I can't agree.

 

The OP has a valid point; up to when should a passenger have the ability to remove the auto tip from his bill .. I understand the "problems" with trying to change a policy (just take a look at how long the smoking surveys have been out there) but I absolutely support a cut off date.

 

As a matter of reality, IMO, there will always be a certain percentage of non-tippers :mad: aboard .. and no matter how hard a crew person tries to satisfy a particular pax, it will be impossible

 

but, there has to be a cut off date IMO

 

I agree it's only fair

 

then again, for some, fairness is a one way street

[debsjc]

I have probably been on over 10 cruises (not that many compared to a lot of you I know ;-) ) and I have never removed a gratuity.

However, if I encounered repeated bad service then I probably would, and I would explain to the front desk why. If the cruise lines auto gratutity system isn't upto ensuring that effects the correct staff member then that is very unfortunate.

[dot73]

I always budget the auto tip as part of the cruise price and never remove it. If there are crew members who go above and beyond their service, I tend to tip them on top of the auto tip. I can see how people get frustrated with the tipping policy when they encouter bad service from one part of the crew, i.e. the room steward or waiter. They are getting their share of the tips although they gave lousy service while another crew member worked extra hard and got the same tip. I don't know what the solution is for this. I guess it would be too difficult to have separate auto tipping for room stewards, dining room staff, and then everyone else. I wish the cruiselines would just add the tips to the price of the cruise and pay the crew a decent salary. Then they could have a no-tipping policy unless people wanted to reward exceptional service by individuals. That's just my opinion. BTW, I cruised eight times with HAL and never came even close to having bad service where I thought of removing the auto tip.

[jtl513]

And to get back to the original question, perhaps the front desk should be required to ask for a reason for removing the gratuity. A few questions on a form--what, if anything was wrong with cabin servie? what, if anything was wrong with table service? etc. Or maybe they do that already, we've never removed the autotip.

Yes, I was standing next to a man at the front desk who wanted the HSC removed because he "didn't believe in it", and the staff person was patiently explaining it ... but he wasn't listening. And yes, there is a form to be filled out requiring reasons to be listed.

 

This policy seems madness, surely you should be able to remove an auto-tip just for the person who has delivered bad service?

Unfortunately, it can't be done because it's all one big pool. All you can hope is that an under-performing person who is named on the removal request form will be forced to shape up by management or peer pressure.

[Randyk47]

We leave the auto tip in place and actually kind of like it, enough that I don't really have any suggestion for change. I can't say that we've been totally pleased with all service on all of our cruises. Our last Veendam cruise the MDR was by far the worst we'd experienced and the first, and actually only time, we've ever raised the issue with the MDR managers. It got better for a couple of nights and then went back to not so good. All in all it wasn't bad enough that we felt like modifying our tip. What we did do is not tip an additional amount out of hand to our MDR wait staff and that was a first. I can't imagine removing the auto tip though because I was disappointed or mad about missing a port. To me that's aiming at the wrong target. In fact I'd think that the staff actually would be working harder as they'd not be getting whatever down time they get, even if only a slower pace, when a ship is in port. Missing a port is not a service issue so don't go after the service staff. Having never missed a port, and therefore never having the compensation issue arise, I'd say my reaction would be based on why we missed the port and how HAL managed it. If I were somehow dissatisfied then my complaint, disappointment, or whatever would be directed at the appropriate ship management and HAL corporate after the cruise.

[Loop]

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as our dining room wait staff and the stewards who tend to your stateroom each day. There are also many others that tend to your care that you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge of US$11 per passenger is automatically charged to each guest's shipboard account. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their total compensation package. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Yes, I was standing next to a man at the front desk who wanted the HSC removed because he "didn't believe in it", and the staff person was patiently explaining it ... but he wasn't listening. And yes, there is a form to be filled out requiring reasons to be listed.

 

<snip>

 

Thanks for the clarification. If the man you overheard "didn't believe in it," all the explanation in the world wasn't going to change his mind. I'm sure that some people who remove the autocharge DO tip the people who served them directly. But I'll bet a lot of people who tell the front desk that they prefer to tip directly don't tip at all.

[bobg]

HAL used to have the policy of "tips not required", which many cheapskates used as an excuse to not tip at all.:( The current system is better than that, since the poorly paid hard working staff gets tips -- even if some people reduce or eliminate the auto deductions.

 

What I would like to see is -- keep the auto tipping, but let me distribute the amount of money to each person.:) I would decide how much the cabin attendants, waiters, etc. each got. This could be done by me giving them a chit that they turn in to the office. The total amount would be deducted from my account and any chits not turned in would be put in the pool.

[fridayeyes]

I was saddened as well to hear that some people punished the innocent staff because they didn't like HALs reasonable and necessary response to the hurricane. :(

 

Thanks to a difficult job market, I had some moments in 2008/2009 where I had to decide between gas, food and medication. It was NOT pleasant. The last 12 months, however, have been very good to me and mine. As an undergrad, I worked my way through school waiting tables and tending bar, so I know how hard those people work, and how little they get paid if they are stiffed on tips.

 

I will be bringing extra cash on my next cruise in order to heftily supplement the auto-tip. :)

[3rdGenCunarder]

I was saddened as well to hear that some people punished the innocent staff because they didn't like HALs reasonable and necessary response to the hurricane. :(

 

Thanks to a difficult job market, I had some moments in 2008/2009 where I had to decide between gas, food and medication. It was NOT pleasant. The last 12 months, however, have been very good to me and mine. As an undergrad, I worked my way through school waiting tables and tending bar, so I know how hard those people work, and how little they get paid if they are stiffed on tips.

 

I will be bringing extra cash on my next cruise in order to heftily supplement the auto-tip. :)

 

I never waited tables. I doubt I would have been good at it, and I appreciate the patience and hard work of good servers. Everyone I know who waited tables in the past says the same thing as you do. They all tip generously because they've walked miles and miles in those shoes.

[bonafidebeachbum]

We took our first cruise ever in June this year on HAL to Alaska. We honestly were somewhat disappointed in the service we received in the MDR and our cabin, I guess mostly because of expectations of this "red carpet pampered service" our friends and family members who had cruised in the past ... before automatic tipping, had, which was not quite our experience. We found the service to be less than our expectations ... especially in the MDR ... other passengers we sailed with voiced the same opinions. Maybe part of the problem here was the fact that we had open seating and not the same wait staff every night, but even so we should have received the same service. I can't help but feel that the automatic tipping sets the stage for less than stellar service. Where is the incentive to please when the tip is an automatic given, and one that can be removed at that?? Yes, some people will tip above the automatic charge ... but not everyone will. Just my honest opinion on the subject.

[fridayeyes]

You certainly may be right about the effect of the autotip on service quality. My thought, however, is that it may have more to do with fewer staff to do the work. In terms of sheer numbers, staffing levels have remained the same. Their distribution, however, has not.

 

Translation: stewards have more cabins and waiters have more tables.

 

Source: observation (and I have run a front-of-house), staff and officer comments, posts here, including some by HAL employees

 

Example: During Code Reds, there are more crew members working in the Lido. They had to come from somewhere, right? In many cases, they were shifted from positions in the MDR or the Pinnacle.

[sail7seas]

<snip> ..... I can't help but feel that the automatic tipping sets the stage for less than stellar service. Where is the incentive to please when the tip is an automatic given, and one that can be removed at that?? Yes, some people will tip above the automatic charge ... but not everyone will. Just my honest opinion on the subject.

 

 

The incentives are pride in one's work, desire to be rehired for new contract and the hope if they do an excellent job the appreciative guest will provide and 'over and above' gratuity at the end of the cruise.

 

If there is a pattern of guests removing HSC from their accounts for the same dining or cabin steward cruise after cruise, I would think that is recognized. Guests need to provide a reason for removing the tips. If the same names are mentioned as not providing good service, their job security might be in question.... and additional tips will be scarce.