Discount cruise due to profession

[johneeo]

Lets give everybody discounts on their cruises -- the same amount all around - just to be fair.

 

Now that wouldn't be fair to teachers and nurses!:eek:

[janniebabe]

Well, how about bankers? They take care of your money for you, helping you save up for a cruise. They are at risk from armed robbers.

 

Pizza chefs too -- they work in hot environments making your favorites for you daily, risking burns.

 

Hamburger-flippers at McD's and Burger King, Wendy's, etc -- not to mention ice cream scoopers at Friendly's or Baskin Robbins.

 

Yes, and construction workers -they spend much of the day making passing women feel good about themselves.

 

Graffitti artists get little recognition for their efforts - and virtually no posititive reinforcement.

 

Finally, those cabin stewards, bar tenders and dining room stewards working on cruise lines around the world - making cruising what it is.

The world is full of folk deserving special discounts from cruise lines.

 

Lets give everybody discounts on their cruises -- the same amount all around - just to be fair.

 

I agree!!

[sdschwrt]

I guess the teachers in my world are quite different than the teachers in yours.

 

In my public school district the average teacher makes over $60,000 a year. Those in the system for 20 to 30 years can hit $100,000 PLUS. They work 183:mad: days a year. In addition, they get full retirement and health benefits.

 

Without information technology professionals, society in all aspects would come to a grinding halt. Therefore, technology specialists should cruise for free.

 

I think it is disingenous (I hope joneeo had a good teacher who taught him the meaning of this word) to make public claims about salary that if accurate are not representative of the average teacher salary. Here is the salary schedule for the Philadelphia public school system, the area the poster says he is from

certified teacher (regular)

 

Bachelor's Degree Master's Degree Master's Plus 30

Step 1 $44,039 $45,334 $48,169

Step 2 $45,901 $47,520 $50,676

Step 3 $49,625 $51,729 $55,372

Step 4 $52,781 $54,884 $58,692

Step 5 $55,777 $57,798 $61,686

Step 6 $58,449 $60,551 $64,436

Step 7 $61,038 $63,224 $67,191

Step 8 $62,180 $65,814 $70,394

Step 9 $63,341 $68,509 $73,751

Step 10 $64,526 $71,314 $77,268

Step 11 $65,733 $74,235 $80,953

 

My source is the School District of Philadelphia website

http://webgui.phila.k12.pa.us/offices/e/ee/information-center/offices/e/ee/resources/information-center/salary-schedule2

 

Clearly the salary claims of an average salary of 60K/year are not true for the Philadelphia system since it is unlikely that the majority of teachers are at step 8 if the district turnover is similar to that of other urban systems. It is possible that a suburban system in the Philadelphia area has as high a pay scale as the poster claims but it is clearly not representative of national averages.

 

The argument here relates to whether teachers should get a discount and the poster claims they are overpaid and thus do not deserve one. The discount is a national one and it is national pay that is relevant if one is arguing on an economic basis whether the discount is justified. Let's at least get the facts right as making up facts to support one's argument has become all too common in the public arena and should be stopped.

[johneeo]

I think it is disingenous (I hope joneeo had a good teacher who taught him the meaning of this word) to make public claims about salary that if accurate are not representative of the average teacher salary. Here is the salary schedule for the Philadelphia public school system, the area the poster says he is from

certified teacher (regular)

 

Bachelor's Degree Master's Degree Master's Plus 30

Step 1 $44,039 $45,334 $48,169

Step 2 $45,901 $47,520 $50,676

Step 3 $49,625 $51,729 $55,372

Step 4 $52,781 $54,884 $58,692

Step 5 $55,777 $57,798 $61,686

Step 6 $58,449 $60,551 $64,436

Step 7 $61,038 $63,224 $67,191

Step 8 $62,180 $65,814 $70,394

Step 9 $63,341 $68,509 $73,751

Step 10 $64,526 $71,314 $77,268

Step 11 $65,733 $74,235 $80,953

 

My source is the School District of Philadelphia website

http://webgui.phila.k12.pa.us/offices/e/ee/information-center/offices/e/ee/resources/information-center/salary-schedule2

 

Clearly the salary claims of an average salary of 60K/year are not true for the Philadelphia system since it is unlikely that the majority of teachers are at step 8 if the district turnover is similar to that of other urban systems. It is possible that a suburban system in the Philadelphia area has as high a pay scale as the poster claims but it is clearly not representative of national averages.

 

The argument here relates to whether teachers should get a discount and the poster claims they are overpaid and thus do not deserve one. The discount is a national one and it is national pay that is relevant if one is arguing on an economic basis whether the discount is justified. Let's at least get the facts right as making up facts to support one's argument has become all too common in the public arena and should be stopped.

 

First, I am not in Philadelphia, I am in suburban Philadelphia.

 

Now let's get the facts right. Where are your statistics on "turnover"? Having worked in the education system, my experience is that once one gets in it, for the most part, they are lifers. The salary and benefits are extremely good.

 

The lowest pay from your statistics is $44,039. The highest is $80,953. The average would then be?

 

Further, a 183 day work year is not bad compared to the average working stiff that puts in about 245. Also, full pension and full medical benefits is not something included in most working folks comp plan.

 

After looking at your stats, I must admit I am probably wrong in stating teachers in my district average $60,000. It is probably closer to $70,000.

[kitty9]

Which cruiseline gives teachers discounts? That one doesnt make sense to me.

 

Want to know how many times as a teacher I was physically assaulted by students? Want to know how many times I was verbally abused? Want to know how many times a student threatened to kill me? Did any of your fellow workers shove something in the tailpipe of your car, doing major damage? I taught in a large, urban inner city school where most of my students were there as a condition of their probation or parole, and most were in gangs. The last student I received in my class was sent because he pistol whipped two of his fellow students. So, wanna tell me how easy it is to be a teacher? Thought not.

 

OK, lets be fair. No one gets a discount. That way, no one should have to get into giant p'ing matches to see who works the hardest and who puts their life on the line.

 

Oh, and the IT person, we got along as a society before you guys and technology came along and I suspect if push came to shove, we'd get along OK without you. I'm still amazed that people can't figure out how to keep in touch with a family member on a cruise ship without using technology. My, how did we survive the dark ages before 1980?????

[johneeo]

So, wanna tell me how easy it is to be a teacher? Thought not.

 

I do not think there has been one reference to it being "easy".

 

The point has been made that teachers, and all other professions are not due discounts, with the exception of some support for discounts to active military.

[alidor]

You people are assuming there is some horrendous discount available at any time, at all times - it is not! These discounts are only offered when they are trying to fill up a cruise. If a cruise is selling well, these discounts will never be offered. And, to top it off, when they are offered, they often are still not the best deal going.

 

Been in the travel business 30 plus years so I guarantee you I know what I'm talking about. So all you people who feel you are so entitled to a "deal," quit complaining as the deal isn't offered unless the ship is empty anyway and they aren't doing you any favors as there still may be something lower.

 

And, for some of you, get over yourselves.

[CanWeGoYet?]

Whoa! Am I reading too much into some of these comments? Good gravy, are we having a post Thanksgiving case of the crankies or what? :D

[klauer]

The point of the discounts is not to reward people in certain professions, it is to attract them to book a cruise. It's the same as offering a special for Florida residents, senior citizens, singles, early bookers, etc. The cruise lines are not charitable organizations who want to recognize people who help others, they are businesses who want to make money.

[Husky61]

Sounds like some of your comments are jealously and nothing more.:rolleyes:

[navybankerteacher]

I think it is disingenous (I hope joneeo had a good teacher who taught him the meaning of this word) to make public claims about salary that if accurate are not representative of the average teacher salary. Here is the salary schedule for the Philadelphia public school system, the area the poster says he is from

certified teacher (regular)

 

Bachelor's Degree Master's Degree Master's Plus 30

Step 1 $44,039 $45,334 $48,169

Step 2 $45,901 $47,520 $50,676

Step 3 $49,625 $51,729 $55,372

Step 4 $52,781 $54,884 $58,692

Step 5 $55,777 $57,798 $61,686

Step 6 $58,449 $60,551 $64,436

Step 7 $61,038 $63,224 $67,191

Step 8 $62,180 $65,814 $70,394

Step 9 $63,341 $68,509 $73,751

Step 10 $64,526 $71,314 $77,268

Step 11 $65,733 $74,235 $80,953

 

My source is the School District of Philadelphia website

http://webgui.phila.k12.pa.us/offices/e/ee/information-center/offices/e/ee/resources/information-center/salary-schedule2

 

Clearly the salary claims of an average salary of 60K/year are not true for the Philadelphia system since it is unlikely that the majority of teachers are at step 8 if the district turnover is similar to that of other urban systems. It is possible that a suburban system in the Philadelphia area has as high a pay scale as the poster claims but it is clearly not representative of national averages.

 

The argument here relates to whether teachers should get a discount and the poster claims they are overpaid and thus do not deserve one. The discount is a national one and it is national pay that is relevant if one is arguing on an economic basis whether the discount is justified. Let's at least get the facts right as making up facts to support one's argument has become all too common in the public arena and should be stopped.

 

I hope that no math teacher thinks that the above schedule does anything but show that the average is $60,000 per year. The median (mid-point), mode (most common), and mean (sum of figures divided by number of figures) all work out to $60,000, plus or minus. When you factor in the value of very generous medical and retirement benefits, on top of the abbreviated work year, teachers are very well paid -- yes there are down-sides, but overall compensation is not one of them.

[spacepotatoes]

I guess the teachers in my world are quite different than the teachers in yours.

 

In my public school district the average teacher makes over $60,000 a year. Those in the system for 20 to 30 years can hit $100,000 PLUS. They work 183:mad: days a year. In addition, they get full retirement and health benefits.

 

Without information technology professionals, society in all aspects would come to a grinding halt. Therefore, technology specialists should cruise for free.

 

I always love the comments about how much time off teachers get :rolleyes: We may not work 365 days of the year, but when school is in session, we work our butts off to give our students the best we can and there are many days that we work around the clock. Believe me, that time off is earned.

 

Anyone who has kids knows that raising them is not easy so I don't understand the perception that someone who deals with 90+ of them every day (if they teach in the high schools) has it easy. When I get these kinds of comments, I'm always tempted to invite people to come spend a week with me -- including time after school helping kids, coaching, etc. and then at home planning, prepping, and marking (for which we do NOT get paid, by the way) -- and then decide for themselves how long they could continue without burning out and what compensation they would think is fair.

 

That being said, I don't think teachers are more deserving of a discount on their cruise than anyone else. I agree with the poster who said that it's about attracting business. And if it didn't work for the cruise lines, they probably wouldn't be doing it.

[johneeo]

Sounds like some of your comments are jealously and nothing more.:rolleyes:

 

Husky,

 

Your post did not reference anyone's specific post, therefore it is not known to whom you were responding.

 

As for me, yes, I am incredibly jealous of teachers. But, I do make the point that they are well off when it comes to compensation and benefits. Further, it irks me that many support the notion that they should be treated as royalty and should be thanked for their sacrifices, as if other professions require no sacrifice or aggravation.

 

And lastly, the entitlement attitude that prevails in our society is what has put us in the incredible debt that we have now. And nowhere is it more prevalent than in the US education system.

[ugen512]

Let the flames begin...

 

IMO there should not be military, police, fire, union, etc discounts. While we are all gratefull for their service, no one forced them to do it. My father worked in the mines which was low pay and as dangerous as any of the above mentioned carreers. We receive emails from people in the military demanding discounts..and then see them booking in suites for $5-6000 for 2 people while claiming they have a military salary.

 

And yes Teachers in PA are highly overpaid.

[ael123]

I believe the cruise lines offer discounts to public servants (teachers, fire fighters, military and police officers because they work for the public and generally are in income brackets that may make it difficult to have the money for a cruise vacation. When I say may make it difficult I am sure we can point to wealthy counties that pay very well. But typically when you make a decision to go into a job that provides a service to the public you do so realizing you are not going to be in the same income bracket as medical professionals or business administration professionals or business owners.

[ael123]

The salary posted is for teachers that have 30 graduate hours of study beyond a master's degree. It is not for the typical teacher with a B.S. degree. In other fields where people have that much education the salary schedule you are showing is not at all high. MBA's with only a master's degree make more then the teacher with 30 graduate hours above a master's degree. RN nurses with a master's degree who have specialties make far more then the pay schedule you posted. Compare apples to apples if you are talking about a teacher with only a bachelor degree then compare them to other salaries of people with only bachelor's degrees.

[sdschwrt]

I hope that no math teacher thinks that the above schedule does anything but show that the average is $60,000 per year. The median (mid-point), mode (most common), and mean (sum of figures divided by number of figures) all work out to $60,000, plus or minus. When you factor in the value of very generous medical and retirement benefits, on top of the abbreviated work year, teachers are very well paid -- yes there are down-sides, but overall compensation is not one of them.

 

I hope Navy banker is not a math teacher as he/she has little understanding of what an average is. The method he/she proposes for calculating the average teacher pay assumes, an assumption for which no data is provided, that there are exactly the same number of teachers on each pay level. This is an unwarranted assumption! The pay step scale can not be used to determine average teacher salary. As any competent math teacher knows, the average pay is determined by the total teacher salary divided by the number of teachers.

 

To once and for all dispel the myth that teachers are disproportionately compensated for degree level and rigor of the job, We need to look at National averages of teacher salary compiled by the Department of Education.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_079.asp

 

The nationwide average salary for 2008-2009 is $53168 with a low in South Dakota of $37494 and a high of $66064 in California.

 

I have no dog in the fight regarding whether teachers deserve a discount or for that matter the elephant in the room, whether people over 55 deserve the discount cruise lines provide. Disclaimer, I am over 55, I am a professor who does not qualify for the teaching discount but two of my daughters and three son in laws are teachers who would qualify.

 

I am however distraught how reality is ignored, statistics manipulated to support ones argument and unsubstantiated claims presented as fact to support ones position on policies in the private sector, cruise fairs, and the public sector, government policy.

 

To quote Winston Churchill "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

 

Lets take the time on these boards to put our pants on rather than run around half naked or naked as the case may be ignoring/distorting facts to make our point

[johneeo]

Compare apples to apples if you are talking about a teacher with only a bachelor degree then compare them to other salaries of people with only bachelor's degrees.

 

Besides teachers, please provide an example of a professional with a B.A. that works 183 days a year, and included in their comp plan is full retirement and medical benefits.

 

You can't, therefore it is impossible to compare apples to apples or anything as sweet of a deal that our educators get.

[johneeo]

The nationwide average salary for 2008-2009 is $53168 with a low in South Dakota of $37494 and a high of $66064 in California.

 

 

Here is some more math for everyone. If as you state, the average was $53,168, and a teacher works 183 days a year, that calculates to $200.54 a day.

 

If they worked like the great majority of workers in this country, 245 days a year, in actuality, their annual average salary is more like $71,181.

 

And, that does not take into consideration health and retirement benefits paid for by the taxpayer.

[kileycatz]

The grass always looks greener on the other side! If you are envious of techers and their so-called perks, become one! We all have choices in life, and hopeully, you pursued a career that makes you happy, but if you feel there is something better out there, go for it!!! Become a teacher, doctor, lawyer, or any other profession you envy -- what's stopping you????:confused:

[firefly333]

I dont care what teachers make .. no matter what it is, to me that doesnt entitle them to get a cruise discount when all professions dont get equal treatment.

 

Folks dont get lost in semantics when the issue is treating some professions as more special than others. When some get this feeling of entitlement, that's just showing you where some in America have their heads. No one is entitled to a discount .. I can see insiders and military, but not many beyond that. Im ambivalent about police and firefighters getting it also, but no one else should get it.

 

What is wrong is its not all teachers, it is only the ones who joined the union. Paying a union dues should not entitle you to more than a teacher who didnt pay their dues. When some teacher on here posts they feel they are entitled to a discount because they belong to a union .. thats what people are reacting to .. has nothing to do with salary.

[sdschwrt]

When some get this feeling of entitlement, that's just showing you where some in America have their heads. No one is entitled to a discount .. I can see insiders and military, but not many beyond that. Im ambivalent about police and firefighters getting it also, but no one else should get it.

 

Does this include people over 55? They get cruise discounts and discounts at many other places starting between 55-65.

[navybankerteacher]

I hope Navy banker is not a math teacher as he/she has little understanding of what an average is. The method he/she proposes for calculating the average teacher pay assumes, an assumption for which no data is provided, that there are exactly the same number of teachers on each pay level. This is an unwarranted assumption! The pay step scale can not be used to determine average teacher salary. As any competent math teacher knows, the average pay is determined by the total teacher salary divided by the number of teachers.

 

To once and for all dispel the myth that teachers are disproportionately compensated for degree level and rigor of the job, We need to look at National averages of teacher salary compiled by the Department of Education.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/digest/d09/tables/dt09_079.asp

 

The nationwide average salary for 2008-2009 is $53168 with a low in South Dakota of $37494 and a high of $66064 in California.

 

I have no dog in the fight regarding whether teachers deserve a discount or for that matter the elephant in the room, whether people over 55 deserve the discount cruise lines provide. Disclaimer, I am over 55, I am a professor who does not qualify for the teaching discount but two of my daughters and three son in laws are teachers who would qualify.

 

I am however distraught how reality is ignored, statistics manipulated to support ones argument and unsubstantiated claims presented as fact to support ones position on policies in the private sector, cruise fairs, and the public sector, government policy.

 

To quote Winston Churchill "A lie gets halfway around the world before the truth has a chance to get its pants on."

 

Lets take the time on these boards to put our pants on rather than run around half naked or naked as the case may be ignoring/distorting facts to make our point

 

Sorry -- "average" is a general term -- I gave three examples of "averages": median, mode and arithmetic mean. Given the salary grid shown, at least two of the three applied. Arithmetic mean is difficult to arrive at exctly, given the huge number of individuals involved, In any event $60,00 is a valid "average" figure.

[cruisead]

I'm from Texas, home of the Bush family. I darned deserve a FREE cruise, just for that !!!

 

No one deserves anything. If you get a few bucks off, good for you. If you don't, too bad, deal with it.

 

But I have to agree with one poster. If teaching is so easy, peachy keen, and short working time, why not be a teacher? They're needed big time. That way if you get into the classroom you'll have first hand info on how great the pay is and how short the hours. OK?

[johneeo]

The grass always looks greener on the other side! :confused:

 

Maybe you miss the point completely.

 

So many claim or believe that teachers are underpaid, unappreciated, and should be entitled to lots of things. And nothing could be further from the truth. And most people have NO idea about their compensation plan and that they get it for working a whopping 183 days a year.

 

I provided statistics that they make the equivalent of $70,000 average. They get full health and retirement benefits. They deserve nothing, and they should thank every taxpayer every pay day.