Should CC Member Cruise Group Leaders be identified on these boards??

[pmacher61]

CC has a Member cruise program that entitles Group Leaders to free perks.

Group Leader Perks

All Cruise Critic groups must have a minimum of 8 cabins booked to be considered a group and receive all of the group perks. As group leader you will receive one free net cruise fare if at least 8 cabins are sold, and two free net cruise fares if at least 16 cabins are sold. Group leaders will need to pay for their cruise upfront, but will be rebated the equivalent rate per berth for the category which has the largest number of cabins booked. Group leader is responsible for all port charges, taxes and fees. In addition, all group leaders will receive the group amenities and an additional perk program created specifically for our group leaders.

 

Group leaders will also be given details on bulk quantities of discounted Cruise Critic gear for their group members. If 10 or more of any Cruise Critic logowear item is purchased, the group leader will receive that item free. http://www.cruisecritic.com/interests/groupleader.cfm

 

In view of the benefits Group Leaders receive, wouldn't it be a good idea for CC to identify the Group Leaders on these boards? I have observed a lot of (over)zealous touting of some cruise lines by their "fans" and it often results in some acrimonious exchanges with the fans arguing with anyone who "bashes" ( to use the vernacular of these fanatics) the line on which they earn the free perks. I believe that a Group Leader who maintains an ongoing relationship with a particular line would normally have an unobjective opinion. At the very least, such a Group Leader's opinion would be colored by the desire to recruit new CC members to be in the group they are organizing.

Readers who are unaware of the Group Leader's vested interest in promoting their line may get bogus info. Readers of threads which contain heated debate between the fans and others would be well served to know whether a fan has a vested interest in promoting the line. It might even defuse some of the heated exchanges if the Group Leaders status were known. It wouldn't take much to put an icon by CCers who are member cruise Group Leaders and I think it would serve to make the boards more user friendly.

[Aquahound]

Unless I'm mistaken, that perk already exists for travel agents, and there are a lot of travel agents on these boards.

 

I think identifying Group Leaders as such would only further the notion some people have about "cheerleaders," etc. It would only cause more trouble. I say just let it go.

[firefly333]

CC also makes money from these official group CC cruises, so thats why they promote them on the boards.

 

if this was a regular group. they would get a free berth for every 8 cabins. I believe on the crazies there were 275 people booked .. and the group leaders only get their cabin, no extra cabins such as a regular group leader would receive.

 

The amount people perceive is much less than reality. Most people dont even know the port fees are embedded in the cruisefare, and how much they are, plus the add on fees and taxes. Most people naively think its only the add on fees and taxes they pay. Its also the most common cabin booked, so its probably a inside berth, minus as you said the fees, and taxes and port fees they get back. I know mach says he spends more than he gets back on stuff for his group, so he makes no money on being a leader, just the fun of doing it.

 

From what I know the additional monies from the additional group berths earned, the money goes to CC, to help defray the cost of these free message boards.

 

I dont really see why you would want to identify these group leaders?? Its not like their name isnt on the group cruise threads for you to see. I must be missing your point. I see nothing wrong with these official cruises myself and think groups can be fun. They used to be great deals, but now Carnival offers ES which put a lid on good deals, plus now they dont let the TA discount any more, so that further made these groups a lot less popular ...but still fun, though not such great deals any more.

[WeBeGone]

Group leader "perks" apply to any group on any cruise line - family reunion groups, class reunion groups, church groups, college groups, business groups, prefessional groups, etc. Identifying them on these boards would serve no purpose at all.

[sail7seas]

We have never sailed on a group cruise so I have no 'dog in this fight', however I do not think Group Leaders need to be identified. They are entitled to as much privacy as is practical. I would NEVER be a group leader and take on that headache so whatever little extras they may receive, good luck to them. They probably well earn them. ;)

[Cruzaholic41]

No. I don't see the point.

[PCLMassachusetts]

I booked our cruise through a travel agent. We booked 2 cabins and my BIL/SIL booked 2 cabins. I was the point person with the TA and was told that if I could get more cabins sold then I would get the same benefits you have mentioned I didn't because I don't want/need the added headache). It is available to anyone regardless of if the trip is organized via CC or not, so I also don't see the need to single anyone out.

[grand isle joe]

....honesty is the best policy....:)

[sail7seas]

....honesty is the best policy....

 

 

 

Where is there any Dishonesty in this? :confused:

 

I may be wrong but doesn't that post imply there is?

 

[klfrodo]

anyone who has the thick skin, the energy, and the pharmaceuticles (sp?) to put up with the BS that is part of being a "group leader" can keep their privacy and their little benefits.

[grand isle joe]

Where is there any Dishonesty in this? :confused:

 

I may be wrong but doesn't that post imply there is?

 

 

I beg your pardon......I never said there was any "dishonesty" BUT it would be informative if a person had ALL the history and facts about some reviews and postings that may be "shaded" by ,hmmm:rolleyes: let's say, a free cruise. I know nobody on these boards would ever do anything so irresponsible BUT why not let all the background facts come out just to insure that any improper action could be avoided in the future.;) Eternal vigilance is the cost of freedom!

[pmacher61]

I beg your pardon......I never said there was any "dishonesty" BUT it would be informative if a person had ALL the history and facts about some reviews and postings that may be "shaded" by ,hmmm:rolleyes: let's say, a free cruise. I know nobody on these boards would ever do anything so irresponsible BUT why not let all the background facts come out just to insure that any improper action could be avoided in the future.;) Eternal vigilance is the cost of freedom!

My point exactly.

It seems to me that many Group Leaders of CC member cruises use the same cruise line on a repeating basis. That may not be universally true, but it appears to often be the case. No one begrudges the Group Leader of a CC Member Cruise his or her hard earned perks including a free cabin, but when that group leader acts as a cheerleader for the cruise line on the boards they ought to disclose the existence of their relationship with the line. It can not help but color their opinion.

Moreover, it may defuse the overzealous cheerleading once it is known that the cheerleader is benefitting personally from a relationship with the line and wants to promote that line to other CC members. In a way it's analogous to the CC prohibition of touting or even mentioning specific TAs. Group leaders are benefitting much as TAs would .

[beachchick]

The idea that group leaders should be identified makes some assumptions. How do we know that someone who is "overzealous" (which is an opinion, not a fact) about a specific cruise line doesn't actually love that cruise line? I do not accept that "At the very least, such a Group Leader's opinion would be colored by the desire to recruit new CC members to be in the group they are organizing." There are thousands of members who have not been and have no intention of being group leaders--Are their opinions more trustworthy? I don't think so. In fact, it's kind of insulting to assume that a group leader's opinions are not to be fully trusted. (FYI, there is no way in hell that I would ever be a group leader.)

 

I don't see group leaders as getting such a great deal that they'd fudge the truth to get people to book on a CC group cruise. In fact, this is far from the best place to try such a thing, considering how many members have their own preferences and have no problem making those preferences known. The premise also assumes that group leaders get a ton of benefits, but they usually don't. Considering how much stress and work it seem to be, group leaders certainly aren't compensated that much.

 

I simply don't agree that group leaders are less honest than any other member here.

 

beachchick

[Underwatr]

Not all who cruise exclusively with one line are group leaders. Not all cheerleaders for a line are group leaders.

[pmacher61]

The idea that group leaders should be identified makes some assumptions. How do we know that someone who is "overzealous" (which is an opinion, not a fact) about a specific cruise line doesn't actually love that cruise line?

We don't. However, it would explain why someone might obnoxiously tout a line overzealously.

 

I do not accept that "At the very least, such a Group Leader's opinion would be colored by the desire to recruit new CC members to be in the group they are organizing."

Would you agree that it might?

 

There are thousands of members who have not been and have no intention of being group leaders--Are their opinions more trustworthy? I don't think so. In fact, it's kind of insulting to assume that a group leader's opinions are not to be fully trusted. (FYI, there is no way in hell that I would ever be a group leader.)

Yes, the opinion of someone who does not receive personal benefits as a Group Leader is likely to be more objective. A group leader will benefit by recruiting other CC readers and is therefore less inclined to negatively criticize a line for which s/he regularly organizes groups.

 

I don't see group leaders as getting such a great deal that they'd fudge the truth to get people to book on a CC group cruise.

I would consider this a naive point of view.

 

In fact, this is far from the best place to try such a thing, considering how many members have their own preferences and have no problem making those preferences known. The premise also assumes that group leaders get a ton of benefits, but they usually don't. Considering how much stress and work it seem to be, group leaders certainly aren't compensated that much.

I simply don't agree that group leaders are less honest than any other member here.

beachchick

Again, I would consider you to be naive. A free cabin is sufficient to motivate some people, not all, to vociferously defend a cruise line from negative criticism because they want to recruit other CC readers to become members of their group. Group Leaders may not be inherently less honest than any other member, but they have a personal interest in eliminating negative criticism of a line on which they regularly organize groups. That can lead to antagonistic exchanges on the boards. I believe disclosure of one's Group Leader status would tend to minimize antagonistic exchanges.

[cjm66]

Group leader "perks" apply to any group on any cruise line - family reunion groups, class reunion groups, church groups, college groups, business groups, prefessional groups, etc. Identifying them on these boards would serve no purpose at all.

 

This is true - I earned a "free" trip to China - 21 days, air fares etc as the group leader of 29 tour members from Australia. The difference is that I had nothing to do with signing them up and they all knew who I was - necessary since I was responsible for negotiating any changes or problems with the local guides and the overall national guide throughout the tour. Not a soft cop. Do CC Group leaders have any responsibilities over and above getting their quota of paid up passengers?

 

Colleen

[moniquet]

Same with any fora there are always a lot of members with vested interests. You can usually pick a few out at least. If it's a eg. property forum it will be full of real estate agents in disguise. I have a sneaky suspicion that some get upgrades for good reviews/blogs;)

 

As with anything on the internet read between the lines:D

[firefly333]

These people already were cheerleaders and loved cruising.

 

Why do people want to attack good things. I think having CC groups is a good thing. Who is the group leader is hardly a secret .. its on the thread!!! Get a grip and quit complaining about things YOU dont have so you want to destroy what others have.

 

Try and start your own CC group if thats what you want. Jealousy is ugly. If you are group leader its your job to promote that group. You dont want to lead a group no one signs up for.

 

The only element that might be unfair is hosts getting preferential treatment and their groups get approved right away vs other peoples. Laura probably knows they already have a following and the groups will be successfull. Some people wait weeks and never hear back from Laura who request to be group leaders.. they just never get the courtesy of a reply regarding their request for a group. That to me has always been unfair. There is a pecking order on CC. If you are the lucky person to get selected to be a host on CC you do get special treatment plus the little bit of monthly money. Id like to be a host, but never will as Im too controversial. No interest in leading a CC group. Iv applied to be a host, even on some small area with little traffic, and of course not even the courtesy of a reply, even if its no.

 

CC is what it is. Lots of people after a certain number of cruises do have preferences, nothing to do with CC. Anything on CC would never influence how I think.

[Aquahound]

It seems to me that many Group Leaders of CC member cruises use the same cruise line on a repeating basis. That may not be universally true, but it appears to often be the case. No one begrudges the Group Leader of a CC Member Cruise his or her hard earned perks including a free cabin, but when that group leader acts as a cheerleader for the cruise line on the boards they ought to disclose the existence of their relationship with the line. It can not help but color their opinion.

Moreover, it may defuse the overzealous cheerleading once it is known that the cheerleader is benefitting personally from a relationship with the line and wants to promote that line to other CC members. In a way it's analogous to the CC prohibition of touting or even mentioning specific TAs. Group leaders are benefitting much as TAs would .

 

This is an anonymous cruise chat board, full of people we will never meet and never know their identity. These boards are full of helpful people and they are full of troublemakers. It is up to the reader to sort out who is who. If someone wanting to organize a group cruise is to be identified just because they might cheerlead for a cruise line, then so should the folks who intentionally bash a particular cruise line to support their insecure love of another cruise line. And where does it end? Everyone being exposed for what they really are? No, I think it's better for the individual readers to decide who is who and what their agendas are.

[okgirl]

I don't think it's much of a secret who the group leaders are. Aren't they generally the originator of the "Official CC Group Cruise" threads? Like Host Mach or Host Randy?

 

I've been on several CC group cruises and it's no secret that Mach is the leader and is getting the benefits associated with being the leader (and taking on all of the organizational responsibilities as well).

 

I don't think Mach has to try to "recruit" anybody for our Crazies Cruises. I'm not sure we've ever had less than 40 cabins even on our smallest group cruise.

 

And just because some might consider him a cheerleader doesn't mean that his opinions and reviews aren't accurate. I'm as much of a Carnival cheerleader as anyone. It's a great product and I'm enthusiastic about promoting participation and I'm not getting any perks.

 

I think you are trying to interject underhandedness and impropriety where there isn't any.

[pmacher61]

These people already were cheerleaders and loved cruising.

 

Why do people want to attack good things. I think having CC groups is a good thing. Who is the group leader is hardly a secret .. its on the thread!!!

It is not on threads dealing with the cruise line in general. You have failed to comprehend my point.

 

Get a grip and quit complaining about things YOU dont have so you want to destroy what others have.

Try and start your own CC group if thats what you want. Jealousy is ugly. If you are group leader its your job to promote that group. You dont want to lead a group no one signs up for.

I have made a suggestion. I am not complaining. I am not jealous. I specifically said no one begrudges the hard earned perks that Group Leaders earn. Where do you get these ideas? One would think that someone writing over 57,000 posts in 5 years, over 30 per day, would read a little better before insulting another.

 

The only element that might be unfair is hosts getting preferential treatment and their groups get approved right away vs other peoples.

Unlike you, I do not regard this as unfair. Host (Group Leaders) may very well be entitled to preferential treatment.I just think that when they discuss a cruise line for which they are going to be acting as a Group Leader this fact be disclosed on all their posts on all threads concerning that line (not just the Group), at least while they are in the process of putting a Group together.

 

Laura probably knows they already have a following and the groups will be successfull. Some people wait weeks and never hear back from Laura who request to be group leaders.. they just never get the courtesy of a reply regarding their request for a group. That to me has always been unfair.

I have no idea whether Laura or anyone else associated with CC is unresponsive' date=' but I have no idea how that is relevant to my topic.

 

There is a pecking order on CC. If you are the lucky person to get selected to be a host on CC you do get special treatment plus the little bit of monthly money. Id like to be a host, but never will as Im too controversial.

Controversial? Really. Gee, I am surprised.

 

No interest in leading a CC group. Iv applied to be a host, even on some small area with little traffic, and of course not even the courtesy of a reply, even if its no.

You seem to be confusing "host" with "Group Leader."

 

CC is what it is. Lots of people after a certain number of cruises do have preferences, nothing to do with CC. Anything on CC would never influence how I think.

I could not agree with you more.

[sail7seas]

I beg your pardon......I never said there was any "dishonesty" BUT it would be informative if a person had ALL the history and facts about some reviews and postings that may be "shaded" by ,hmmm:rolleyes: let's say, a free cruise. I know nobody on these boards would ever do anything so irresponsible BUT why not let all the background facts come out just to insure that any improper action could be avoided in the future.;) Eternal vigilance is the cost of freedom!

 

 

Why should anyone be expected to divulge so much about themselves in order to post a review or organize a group cruise on a public forum?

 

I would never intentionally detail all my personal info and for that reason, I don't participate actively on facebook, have not posted a photo, not any photos of anyone I know, and would not provide any more info than I desire.

 

Do you think people are obliged to expose themselves totally to have credibility?

 

If so, you will lose a great many posters here as many of us refuse to do that.

 

But Please do NOT call us dishonest........ or hint or imply that. Just call us trying to be as private as the information age will permit.

 

Thanks.

 

Anyone who chooses to write a review seems to be free to do so as long as they follow the rules of those who own and operate these Forums.

 

Anyone who wishes to lead a group cruise is free to do so as long as they follow the rules.

 

Nothing more than that is my business IMO

The rest of us are free to take from their written words whatever we choose. Use your own judgment.

 

I choose to add DH and I have cruised HAL more than 72 cruises and clearly think it a great cruise line or we would not continue to sail them. Just look at the Logo I have used in my signature for ten+ years. Of course, I will write positive things about them but what is the secret. I advertise my preference for them everytime I post......... I have a two inch logo beneath every message I wrote, :eek:

 

 

Oh yah,,,,,,,, one more thing for the record. HAL has never given us a free cruise. Has never given us any discount anyone wouldn't have the opportunity to enjoy.

[firefly333]

Unlike you, I do not regard this as unfair. Host (Group Leaders) may very well be entitled to preferential treatment.

I have no idea whether Laura or anyone else associated with CC is unresponsive, but I have no idea how that is relevant to my topic.

 

You seem to be confusing "host" with "Group Leader."

 

Host Randy and Host Mach both lead a LOT of groups. I am not confusing the terms. I merely said their request for getting groups going and pricing is put ahead of others. Just stating the facts. They are not equally cheerleaders however. One I would say is and one isnt, and I know both personally.

 

As okgirl points out .. its not like it is a secret who the group leaders are. Just look on the group threads? Why would you want something else to state the obvious?

 

Obviously we disagree that they need further exposing.

 

What would you like to be said? You cant accuse someone of being a cheerleader just because they are a group leader, when some may not be .. but then there are some like okgirl who posted above who will only cruise carnival, no other line, but she does not lead groups. Being a group leader does not change most people's preferences, they cant be bought like you insinuate.

[pmacher61]

And where does it end? Everyone being exposed for what they really are? No, I think it's better for the individual readers to decide who is who and what their agendas are.

IMO, it begins and ends when a person has a vested financial interest in how the cruise line or ship is perceived by other readers on CC. I think that posters who are organizing a CC member group and who therefore stand to earn a free cabin if they recruit the requisite number of readers ought to be identified as such on all threads dealing with that cruise line or ship, at least, during the pendency of formation of the group.

[pmacher61]

Why should anyone be expected to divulge so much about themselves in order to post a review or organize a group cruise on a public forum?

Divulge "so much" about themselves? Do you understand that I have suggested that it might be advisable to identify by icon Group Leaders who are in the process of organizing a member cruise (or who regularly do so for a specific line) on threads dealing with that line? Nothing more.