It's Official: Cunard Re-flags Ships in Bermuda, Launches Weddings at Sea

[Ray66]

 

We do have a parish named Southampton but there is no port there... that is in use.

 

So in fact "Southampton" could be left on the stern?

 

Looks nice from the pics

 

http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22southampton+bermuda%22&gs_sm=e&gs_upl=1688l6438l0l7938l21l20l0l0l0l0l297l4249l0.8.12l20l0&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=li

[eroller]

Obviously the dismay of many Cunard loyals is being heard loud and clear at Cunard headquarters.

 

This was just posted on Facebook by Cunard:

 

Dear Cunarders – We hear you. We appreciate everyone’s passion on this subject because we too are very passionate about Cunard. We value tradition and history and take our responsibility as stewards of our 171 year old brand seriously.

 

We remain quintessentially British in all that we do. Our Head Office remains in Southampton, England. We will continue to fly the Red Ensign with pride and we will continue to serve our very diverse mix of international guests with the British signatures you all rightly expect.

 

In our history we have flown many flags - of the 250 ships in our fleet only eight have carried the name Southampton on the stern. The name on the stern will not change the experience we deliver.

 

We firmly believe offering weddings at sea will be very popular and support our continued success.

 

We understand people's concern but we remain the Cunard that so many of you, as valued guests, have enjoyed over many years. We will never forget our proud British Heritage and we will continue to deliver our British signatures to our guests each and every day.

 

We Are Cunard!

[eroller]

A little damage control by Cunard!

 

Ernie

[Leucothea]

Excellent points. The whole idea of being in business is to make a profit. The idea of Cunard sinking majestically into bankruptcy - and not changing with the times - does no one any good.

 

Yes it's disappointing, we prefer it didn't happen, but if it does make economic sense then I'd much prefer to see 'Hamilton' on the stern of Cunard ships than suffer some kind of cut-back in service and or food.

 

I've got another voyage coming up soon. From reading the news, the new registry port of Hamilton will already be present in February 2012. Provided my experience is the same as last time, I will be happy. In all honesty, I never once looked at the stern of the ship during my last voyage.

 

People who sailed Cunard years ago obviously have fond memories. I acknowledge that, but Cunard wasn't going to survive in the long term if it remained as it was pre-Carnival. No one came along and injected cash, new ideas and built three ships.

 

To my mind the British government (or the EU) are to blame for this. They should have foreseen that companies would have reacted in this manner - so what's the point of passing the law?

 

 

 

This is all true. I suppose realistically, keeping Cunard's British traditions just might be too costly. If it's an economic decision; well then maybe I'm just reacting emotionally to events that cannot be prevented due to economic conditions. However, I've been doing some reading about corruption scams related to this economy, and can't help being annoyed that these kinds of things may be the cause of this financial mess to begin with.

 

Viva Las Vegas!

[jenno10388]

does anything think the QM2 will have the name change whilst in the upcoming refit?

[guernseyguy]

Obviously the dismay of many Cunard loyals is being heard loud and clear at Cunard headquarters.

 

This was just posted on Facebook by Cunard:

 

Do they think we are idiots? Only 8 carried Southampton on the stern because the vast majority of the others carried "Liverpool" AFAIK four carried Nassau....and that's about it.....

 

In ANY other line this would be a shrug of the shoulders and thoughts on changing times - but for a line that trades so comprehensively off its "British heritage"(sic) this is crass.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

A couple of thoughts. I had the same disappointment when P&O and Princess re-flagged out of the UK to Bermuda (I thought "London" was a cool port of registry on the stern - it was classic P&O).

 

Having said that, Stephen (Topsham) is entirely correct - Bermuda registry has equally high standards to that of the UK and, in my view, the Red Duster flying from the stern is still preferable to the Bahamian, Panamanian or other "flag of convenience."

 

Before we all blame Carnival, let's remember a couple of things. Like it or not, they brought Cunard back from the brink of extinction, as well as my other favorite line, Holland America. When Carnival took over Cunard, they went right to work planning and building QM2 - that never would have happened otherwise. They also took Vistafjord (a beautiful, but Bahamian-flagged, ship) and re-birthed her into Caronia AND re-flagged her into the UK. They now have three Queens, and appear to be doing well.

 

Holland America, as I mentioned, is now a fleet of 15 ships when it was down to 4 just before Carnival bought it (its first big purchase). Under Carnival, eventually, all 15 ships were either re-flagged or originally flagged in the Netherlands. I know the Dutch are very proud of this fact. It is my understanding that Dutch tax law had changed in the mid-90s making it more favorable for them to re-flag to the Dutch registry. Assumming nothing changes there, it is likely they will remain flying the Dutch flag.

 

Finally, although Costa (antoher Carnival brand) was Italian, and then flagged out a lot (Liberia I recall?), they have, for the most part, returned to and kept the Italian flag.

 

It is business after all. If countries have laws that are not overly burdensome, they will keep the ships flagged there - if not, off they go. Many of the major Norwegian ships fled Norway for the Bahamas years ago (Royal Caribbean, NCL, Norewegian America (pre-Cunard)).

[eroller]

Do they think we are idiots? Only 8 carried Southampton on the stern because the vast majority of the others carried "Liverpool" AFAIK four carried Nassau....and that's about it.....

 

In ANY other line this would be a shrug of the shoulders and thoughts on changing times - but for a line that trades so comprehensively off its "British heritage"(sic) this is crass.

 

 

While I'm disappointed with the registry change, I'm more disappointed with Cunard's lack of transparency to their "valued guests". Had Cunard just been forthcoming, and stated that due to changes in European Legislation which would cause financial hardship, a fleet registry change was necessary, I would have been much more understanding.

 

Instead they decided to cover up the real reasons with this farce of onboard weddings. It's truly insulting to my intelligence. If they are truly serious about these weddings creating so much additional business, lets see if they add a wedding chapel to QM2 during her November refit. It would be the perfect opportunity but somehow I doubt that will happen. I also seriously doubt there are many couples just dying to get married on QM2 mid-Atlantic. Most people that sail Cunard are well past the 'just getting married' stage of their lives. Cunard is not Princess or P&O where onboard weddings are popular and there are wedding chapels onboard. They are more mainstream lines. Different demographic.

 

Ernie

[Mid-Atlantic Ridge]

While I'm disappointed with the registry change, I'm more disappointed with Cunard's lack of transparency to their "valued guests". Had Cunard just been forthcoming, and stated that due to changes in European Legislation which would cause financial hardship, a fleet registry change was necessary, I would have been much more understanding.

 

Instead they decided to cover up the real reasons with this farce of onboard weddings. It's truly insulting to my intelligence.

Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking, most eloquently written so I shall add nothing but my wholehearted agreement.

 

M-AR

[safarigal]

We know that the ships will now be registered in Bermuda, and that ships registered in Bermuda have Hamilton on their rears, but maybe, maybe, they are going to register them in Southampton, Bermuda. It would certainly save paint on the rear ends.

[bobby1119]

In addition to ordering the change in name from Southampton to Hamilton on the stern of the three ships, I think Mr. Shanks' should also re-name his blog,

 

We were Cunard

[Bramcruiser]

While I'm disappointed with the registry change, I'm more disappointed with Cunard's lack of transparency to their "valued guests". Had Cunard just been forthcoming, and stated that due to changes in European Legislation which would cause financial hardship, a fleet registry change was necessary, I would have been much more understanding.

 

 

Here, here. That seems to be the main theme over on the Facebook page. I think too many people see this "wedding at sea" as nothing more than an excuse. Cunard's PR bombed big time. Seeing the volume of postings on the Facebook page I would imagine that Cunard is going to have to scramble to save face because they simply got caught with their pants down - figuratively speaking that is.

 

David

[Bramcruiser]

We were Cunard

 

Exactly what I posted on Facebook! :D

[bobby1119]

Exactly what I posted on Facebook! :D

 

Like minds think (and vent) alike!

 

The FB page is just amazing. What a PR nightmare they now deservedly have. What enrages me most is how deceptive and disingenuous and downright insulting to one's intelligence the wedding argument is.

 

I guess the revenue from weddings and paying the crew less which the bean counters counted on will be spent on damage control.

 

Serves them right. They have lost my business.

[bob brown]

Well, at least Cunard will try to maintain there "quintessentially British" personna.

When you think about it, they are better than some other lines.

For example--what if anything, is Norwegian about Norwegian Cruise Lines nowadays? Not their registry, nor much else other than some Norwegian officers.

Holland America, while still maintaining some registry in the Netherlands, does not even have an office there. They do try to maintain some of their Dutch traditions, at least.

[Salacia]

Partial quote

... What a PR nightmare they now deservedly have. What enrages me most is how deceptive and disingenuous and downright insulting to one's intelligence the wedding argument is.

 

I guess the revenue from weddings and paying the crew less which the bean counters counted on will be spent on damage control.

 

...

Too true Bobby.

 

Speaking of BS - oops, I should say PR - check out the latest press release, Headline: Cunard Says 'I Do' to Weddings at Sea After 171 Years http://www.cunard.com/About-Cunard-Line/News-Room/Cunard-News/?art=8421

 

No doubt the amount saved by re-flagging to Bermuda is very substantial. I find it interesting that Cunard has made no comment about how the savings will be used, but of course that wouldn't be practical since Cunard doesn't acknowledge the re-flagging has any financial benefit other than revenue derived from weddings.:cool:

 

This is very small potatoes compared to the total impact re-flagging Cunard ships will have, but parenthetically: wait a few years and see the PR nightmare resulting from non-Bermudian residents who marry on board with a marriage license from Bermuda and then unfortunately seek a divorce. (I understand that 50% of marriages end in divorce, so there's a 50-50 chance in the next few years that there will be more than a few unhappy couples that were wed at sea whilst on-board Bermuda flagged Cunard. And yes, before someone reminds me, the other 50% of marriages end in death:))

 

I wonder how the staff and crew of Cunard ships feel about the re-flagging:confused:

 

Salacia

[Salacia]

PARTIAL QUOTE

...Yes, a shame that Hamilton is not large enough to take vessels of the size of QM2 or the smaller sisters....

Stephen

 

Sailing on Sunday in Bermuda's new QUEEN ELIZABETH!!!

 

Topsham, according this story from the RoyalGazetteOnLine http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20110420/NEWS04/704209983, QV visited Bermuda last April, but it doesn't specify which port was used for docking.

 

Bon voyage in advance of your Sunday cruise. BTW, call it what you want - Bermuda's new QUEEN ELIZABETH or the GOOD SHIP LOLLI POP, but I suspect the stern will still read QUEEN ELIZABETH SOUTHAMPTON when you board on Sunday.;) -S.

[oceanic9]

Here, here. That seems to be the main theme over on the Facebook page. I think too many people see this "wedding at sea" as nothing more than an excuse. Cunard's PR bombed big time. Seeing the volume of postings on the Facebook page I would imagine that Cunard is going to have to scramble to save face because they simply got caught with their pants down - figuratively speaking that is.

 

David

 

I lost faith in Cunard and their abilities back during the volcano incident where they just didn't seem to give a damn about their passengers and backed policies that provided profit at their customer's expense. Now this debacle shows you have a team in place that simply does not give a damn about the quality of the work they do. Being so patronizing about their actions to their client pool is one sure way of losing them fast. Again Cunard/Carnival provide an example on how NOT to do business. Now I see comments are being deleted on Cunard's Facebook page as well. At this point Carnival should have gone full throttle and registered these vessels in Monrovia with other Carnival owned vessels.

[Mister Chicken]

Partial quote

... What a PR nightmare they now deservedly have. What enrages me most is how deceptive and disingenuous and downright insulting to one's intelligence the wedding argument is.

 

I guess the revenue from weddings and paying the crew less which the bean counters counted on will be spent on damage control.

 

...

Too true Bobby.

 

Speaking of BS - oops, I should say PR - check out the latest press release, Headline: Cunard Says 'I Do' to Weddings at Sea After 171 Years http://www.cunard.com/About-Cunard-Line/News-Room/Cunard-News/?art=8421

 

No doubt the amount saved by re-flagging to Bermuda is very substantial. I find it interesting that Cunard has made no comment about how the savings will be used, but of course that wouldn't be practical since Cunard doesn't acknowledge the re-flagging has any financial benefit other than revenue derived from weddings.:cool:

 

This is very small potatoes compared to the total impact re-flagging Cunard ships will have, but parenthetically: wait a few years and see the PR nightmare resulting from non-Bermudian residents who marry on board with a marriage license from Bermuda and then unfortunately seek a divorce. (I understand that 50% of marriages end in divorce, so there's a 50-50 chance in the next few years that there will be more than a few unhappy couples that were wed at sea whilst on-board Bermuda flagged Cunard. And yes, before someone reminds me, the other 50% of marriages end in death:))

 

I wonder how the staff and crew of Cunard ships feel about the re-flagging:confused:

 

Salacia

 

While I share in your frustrations, as a bean counter myself I believe that the most important aspect of this fiasco is that Cunard is still in business. One thing is certain, the decision to change the ship registries could not have been taken "lightly". These are difficult times indeed and no doubt many more difficulties are on the horizon!

[KruiserKat]

Since everyone has been grumbling about the cutbacks in service on Cunard, I am surprised that there has been such an outcry when Cunard has found a way to make substantial savings at the cost of a few gallons of paint on the stern.

Perhaps someone could suggest other cuts that could be made that would compensate for the loss of these savings yet be less onorous than Cunard's solution.

[Salacia]

Since everyone has been grumbling about the cutbacks in service on Cunard, I am surprised that there has been such an outcry when Cunard has found a way to make substantial savings at the cost of a few gallons of paint on the stern.

Perhaps someone could suggest other cuts that could be made that would compensate for the loss of these savings yet be less onorous than Cunard's solution.

 

 

Sorry Kruiser Kat, but in my opinion, the cost is more than a few gallons of paint on the stern.

 

And yes, there have geen grumblings about cutbacks in service, as well as complaints about the condition of some staterooms, flooring in public areas, concern regarding inspection reports and delayed maintenance regarding equipment as varied as dishwashers and engines!

 

Please look at the CCL's reported profits. Look at the salaries -- richly supplemented with revenue from stock dividends, from the top (Mr. Arison) down. Consider also that as of Jan 31, 2011, CCL had signed agreements with three shipyards providing for the construction of 10 cruise ships. The bottom line looks rosey.

 

But in answer to your question, if cost cutting measures are in order as you suggested, then stop the bloody dividends. Re-invest in the company! Adjust the salary of top management as an example of austerity measures. Do not increase debt by ordering 10 new ships when existing ships have trouble filling berths. Itineraries for 2011 are proving to have been poorly planned - put a team in place capable of doing a better job. And could go on, but I'm sure others have additional suggestions.

 

 

 

Salacia

Disclosure: CCL stockholder

Cunard World Club - Platinum

Princess Captain's Circle- Gold

[YachtieRick]

The reality is that it's a major cost cutting measure to reflag. The standards of inspection required of a UK Flagged ship far exceed that of any other flag in the world, and reflagging to Hamilton will save a lot of costs, in additional to the salary requirements.

The Cunard brand is steadily declining, and the build of the Queen Victoria in Fincantieri was the start of that, just another run of the mill, limited lifespan, low cost, vista cruise ship. Far from the ocean liner standards of the Queen Mary.

Carnival UK as a group has just been forced to increase salaries for its British Officers, but they still remain a pittance to encourage highly qualified Masters Mariners and Mates to serve on what once was the Flag Carrying cruise liners. I certainly could never afford to go back as a Deck Officer with them, and certainly saw a major decline in standards for guests, crew and officers in my time there.

 

Unfortunately they need to continue turning a profit, and keeping the shareholders happy. But Cunard is just another mass market cruise line now, no more, no less.

[fg_hb]

I think the best time for reflagging the fleet is July 2012 when all Queens are together in Southampton and HM is aboard one ship. It's the best way for Cunard / Carnival to show what they really think about HM and Britain. :-(

[transatlantic fan]

I think the best time for reflagging the fleet is July 2012 when all Queens are together in Southampton and HM is aboard one ship. It's the best way for Cunard / Carnival to show what they really think about HM and Britain. :-(

Shanks said yesterday on the local news that the name change will be Spring of 2012.

[Lake Barcroft Sailor]

As sad as I am to see the change, I fully agree with the other comments that, had not Carnival saved Cunard, we would not even be having this conversation. So, for whatever reason(s) the change is being made, I, for one, am grateful that the ships still sail. This will, however, not stop me from posing my disappointment at the change on Cunard's Facebook page.