"Cruise Ships Could be Shut Out of Venice"

[euro cruiser]

I came across this article from yesterday's Telegraph on another travel web site. Despite the title, the article claims that fears about erosion, caused by the waves created by large cruise ships, may lead to restrictions or limited docking ability, not outright bans.

 

Equally interesting is the comment by one business owner in Venice who suggests that cruise passengers be charged 50 Euro each to set foot in Venice.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/italy/8949458/Cruise-ships-could-be-shut-out-of-Venice-over-erosion-fears.html

[sarafinadh]

Venice is a wonderful place to visit, but tourism is really the ONLY industry they have, and it's a really EXPENSIVE to maintain location. They are facing the reality of that *cost of living* and trying to manage their *resource* wisely.

 

And the bottom line is the tourist must pay.

 

When we were there in June my civil engineer husband, who specializes in environmental engineering, did some research into the situation there. It's pretty dire. Not a new problem, of course, but as with anything that goes on for long enough, it just has become overwhelming to deal with.

 

Venice is like an adult disneyland. Plan on paying accordingly...

 

But it is pretty wonderful...

 

; -)

[dln929]

My mother just sent me this article an hour ago with a terse little note saying "There has been talk of this for years and it seems as Italy is finally going to do something about it." You can tell Mama is no fan of cruise ships. :( Frankly, I'd like to see what Venice is going to do when they are not getting all the $$$ that the cruise ships bring in. We, for example, sailed out of Venice (on the very ship in the newspaper photo) but we arrived early and spent time and money in the city. Most cruise ship passengers do exactly the same as us. How are they going to manage when the hotels are empty because they've shooed the cruise ships away?

 

And who is responsible for the huge increase in cruise ship visits in the first place? They didn't invite themselves in. Maybe the Italians were a little too greedy and now they are facing serious repercussions of too many ships, too soon. Who really is the villain then? It's easy to pick on cruise ships but they're not the real problem. Venice needs a comprehensive tourist plan that will benefit both themselves and all the people who wish to visit the city. There has to be some way for environmentalists and tourists to coexist peacefully. After all, tourists are there because they have a genuine interest in the city and don't want it to come to harm.

[Karennella]

Well I am sure they will fill the place with tourists anyway. The scale of tourism there is overwhelming and I noticed a very large number of Asian tour groups. A huge growing market with the Asian middle classes expanding so rapidly. Also there is a growth in speciality touring. We were there on a golf tour, of all things. Hard to imagine going to Venice to play golf, but we did.

We thought, compared to our earlier visits years ago, that it was like Disneyland and very artificial. Our guide was saying the the permanent population is a fraction of what it was in the past.

[sarafinadh]

There is some talk of landing tourists on the mainland and letting them access the islands via the station/vaporetto/cab.

 

That would reduce the erosive factor but still allow the visitors to enjoy the city.

 

I am sure, that like most things, Venice is not what it once was. But it's still pretty amazing.

 

And regarding the asian tourists?

 

maybe instead of paris syndrome they will get venice syndrome!

 

; -)

[astrocat]

Oh dear, and we have a Venice cruise booked with Celebrity Silhouette next year! The article was in this morning's NZ and Australian papers too .. it is a bit of a worry but like other posters, I dont see how they could pass up on the $$$$ cruise ship tourists and provisioning bring in.

[bobalink]

We sailed from Venice this summer on the Star Princess. The sail-away was beautiful!

 

I realize this is "third hand" information, but for what it's worth...

 

One of our friends who traveled with us, spoke with an officer on the ship, and he said words to this effect: "Enjoy this sail away because it won't be long until cruise ships will not be allowed here. Plans are already in the works for cruise ships to dock at the mainland."

 

I am sure glad we got to experience the beautiful sail away.

[euro cruiser]

A full ban on cruise ships is almost completely unlikely; however, strict limitations on the size of ships that can sail among the islands is probable. I would expect some combination of larger ships using the mainland port (which is now a commercial port) and smaller ones continuing to use the berths at the current cruise port.

 

Cruise ships are not the only visitors who will feel the burden of additional fees and/or more difficult access. Officials have proposed various tax or fee schemes and limited access plans for years as the crowds have increased, stretching the city's facilities and fragile environment to the maximum. These are not about greed, but about survival. The islands are too small and the environment too fragile to absorb the ever increasing crowds.

 

Just as gentrification of urban neighborhoods often results in the displacement of the poor, the intense growth of transient visitors in Venice has resulted in the displacement of a significant portion of the full time population. The demand for short term rentals has skyrocketed over the past two decades; many former residents found it impossible to justify continuing to live in Venice when they could make so much more money renting out their homes on a weekly basis to tourists, while living in newer, larger homes on the mainland. The result is that each year more and more residential property becomes vacation rentals, and fewer "residents" of Venice actually reside there.

[cruisemom42]

After all, tourists are there because they have a genuine interest in the city and don't want it to come to harm.

 

I'm not so sure that this is really true. Some tourists have a genuine interest, but probably more of them (especially those on a cruise) never get beyond St. Marks and the Rialto Bridge and a ride in a gondola with a gondolier singing inauthentic songs. They have little understanding of either the history of Venice or the current problems it faces (many of them as a direct result of tourism, as already noted). Quite a few just want to be pointed toward shopping opportunities. Just watch and see how many come back to the ship with Hard Rock Cafe Venice t-shirts. :rolleyes:

 

I'm not sure what the answer is, but I would agree that something needs to be done to limit tourism. It is destroying the city, both physically and culturally. I don't think Venice would suffer inordinately if cruise ships stopped calling there. As of a few years ago, there were many fewer cruise ships sailing the Med (and they were much smaller). Venice still had plenty of visitors every year who arrived in other ways.

 

On the other hand, given how long Italy has been talking about doing things to protect monuments and then failing to follow through, I would doubt that any major changes are going to happen overnight.....

[wisteria1019]

Yes, sailing into Venice is pure magic. But, I support any method, restriction to preserve her and let the surrounding eco system thrive.

[ab0si]

While the Port Authority makes quite a bit of money off cruise ships, I very much doubt it significantly improves the private economy. Millions of people visit The Serene Republic annually. They eat, sleep, shop, drink, go to concerts (and even basketball games) in Venice. This is the lifeblood of Venice, not the cruise ships.

 

Of course, this is Italy which is facing a financial crisis. While reducing the number and size of cruise ships allowed in the lagoon is an excellent preservation idea, I doubt anything along these lines will happen soon. It will have to wait until the next environmental crises .. that is, until it is too late.

[CintiPam]

When we last were in Venice in May 2010, the owners of our wonderful hotel, Al Ponte Mocenigo, also told us to enjoy our sail away because plans were in the works so that within ten years, all cruise ships will be docking at the mainland southwest of Venice because of the enormous amount of erosion created by these lovely sail ins and sail aways.

[chipmaster]

Big ships even move slowly can't be a good thing. Enjoy it while it lasts, no question our sail away was special.

 

At the same time Venice as a cruise destination will be attractive whether or not the sail by for the plaza continues. Nobody will shot the hand that feeds even a small portion of their revenues

[cruise kitty]

Really appreciate this posting & info, I've been obsessing over where we can go for fall 2013, & I realize now, that it has to include Venice. I can completely understand the need to try & preserve the city, but I do want to experience that sail in/out, it sounds like it needs to be put on the super short list now.

[baggal]

Even though I thought the sail-in to Venice was absolutely amazing, it immediately came to my mind that this can't be good for the city's infrastructure and ecology and I was definitely surprised that being so up close and personal was permitted.

 

It happens in other cities as well - Stockholm, for example. And at most of the inside passage ports in Alaska. It just can't be good in the long run.

[Imagineer]

...we were just there, we stayed for a week prior to our November 13th cruise on Oceania's Insignia. My observations of all the marine traffic there would indicate there is more erosion done just by the everyday travels made by all the vessels used for business and transportation. The only vessels that don't throw up a considerable wake are the gondolas, the vaporetto's all create a large wake and the water taxi's never go slow unless they're in extremely tight quarters. The ship we sailed on carries no more than 700 passengers and docks at an area used by smaller vessels, when we sailed out I doubt our speed was enough to even create a wake. There's more wake created by the ferries that run back and forth between Venice and The Lido...

...I can totally understand concerns being raised regarding some of the increasingly larger ships that have/are being introduced. We witnessed the arrival of one of Italy's own MSC ships, the MSC Magnifica, the thing is huge, at 14 decks high it literally towers over the surrounding city, in fact not so much impressive as imposing. One of the more problematic issues with ships of this size is the number of passengers that are suddenly thrust upon the city, imagine 4000 people all at once trying to walk the narrow streets of Venice, if you've been there you know what I mean. We had people ask what ship we were on and when we said the Insignia were told "Oh, we like that ship, it is small", that says something about how the locals feel...

...I can see them moving the larger ships to an alternate site that is better equipped to handle the much greater volume of passengers they carry, and to ease any concerns regarding erosion of the lagoon immediately surrounding the city of Venice...

 

cheers,

 

the Imagineer

[bazzaw]

Off topic - but related.

 

Because of the increasing size of cruiseships, it will become increasingly difficult to visit Sydney Australia - because the cruise terminal there is small and built in a very busy ferry area (wasn't so busy when it was built) - and none of the new ships can get under the Sydney Harbour bridge to berth at the new terminal being built.

 

Perhaps like the dinosaurs, these new mega-ships will eventually cause their own demise??

 

Barry

[starskyfan]

Really appreciate this posting & info, I've been obsessing over where we can go for fall 2013, & I realize now, that it has to include Venice. I can completely understand the need to try & preserve the city, but I do want to experience that sail in/out, it sounds like it needs to be put on the super short list now.

 

I’m with you Cruise Kitty. The next cruise has to include Venice. We’ve been before but not on a cruise ship. Sailing in/out of Venice is on our bucket list and hope we get to experience it before it goes away. No idea how long it would take to go into effect, but sounds like they will be deciding rather soon. I was already booked on the 17-day Med cruise on Princess for October, but they also offer the same cruise in May so I booked that one too just in case we hear something soon.

[slidergirl]

I guess I'll be a different voice. I like the idea of not allowing the cruise ships to go up the Grand Canal. When I was there for a land vacation in 2004, I stayed at a nice hotel right on the Canal. I was looking off my rooftop balcony one morning and I saw this monstrosity of a Princess ship in front of the hotel. It actually disgusted me. It blocked everything. I could only think of those couple of thousand of Ma & Pa Kettles on the ship - this is probably their only "view" of Venice, other than getting off the ship and herded to St. Marks and the Rialto bridge. Add to this one ship all the others who do the cruise up the Canal and it is not very attractive. When each ship goes up and down, it does disrupt the normal flow of Canal traffic. And, those smoke stacks put out a lot of soot onto the area. And, the rumble it makes is annoying. The Venetians already have a problem with natural erosion and flooding. Anything that can be done to save Venice should be welcome. Besides, I prefer my cruising of the Grand Canal to be a bit more intimate...

[hylasgirl]

My mother just sent me this article an hour ago with a terse little note saying "There has been talk of this for years and it seems as Italy is finally going to do something about it." You can tell Mama is no fan of cruise ships. :( Frankly, I'd like to see what Venice is going to do when they are not getting all the $$$ that the cruise ships bring in. We, for example, sailed out of Venice (on the very ship in the newspaper photo) but we arrived early and spent time and money in the city. Most cruise ship passengers do exactly the same as us. How are they going to manage when the hotels are empty because they've shooed the cruise ships away?

 

And who is responsible for the huge increase in cruise ship visits in the first place? They didn't invite themselves in. Maybe the Italians were a little too greedy and now they are facing serious repercussions of too many ships, too soon. Who really is the villain then? It's easy to pick on cruise ships but they're not the real problem. Venice needs a comprehensive tourist plan that will benefit both themselves and all the people who wish to visit the city. There has to be some way for environmentalists and tourists to coexist peacefully. After all, tourists are there because they have a genuine interest in the city and don't want it to come to harm.

 

 

Totally agree! They do need a comprehensive tourist plan. But that will mean saying "no" to a lot of revenue. They did invite the cruise lines in... and built a nifty new people mover to move them onto the Grand Canal.

 

and.. by the way... the ships don't REALLY sail up the Grand Canal.

 

There is nothing in Venice without tourism. It's sad but true. There is no industry and it's not a working city. It survives only because of the tourist. I'm not sure how they are going to protect such an amazing place without the tourism dollars to maintain it?

 

It will be interesting to see what happens with all of this.

[lisiamc]

I think the sort of tourists most appreciated by Venice are the ones who stay a few nights in a hotel, eat lots of meals in Venetian restaurants, buy bottles of nice wine and maybe a chandelier or two.

 

Many day-stop cruise ship passengers walk around for a few hours, smuggle a sandwich or two off the ship and sit on the steps of the Basilica to eat it. They don't bring in nearly as much revenue as the overnighters. So moving the cruise ship dock to Mestre makes quite a bit of sense to me.

 

Day-stop passengers can still come in to Venice with a short ride on the train, and those people who like to have a night or two in a hotel pre- or post-cruise will still be nicely catered for. It sounds like everyone wins, except maybe photographers at sail-away.

[slidergirl]

...

 

and.. by the way... the ships don't REALLY sail up the Grand Canal.

 

 

Tell me, then what was that monstrosity that went past my hotel. The hotel (Westin Regina & Europa) is right on the Grand Canal, across from the Church of Santa Maria della Salute, and in a little from the San Marco vaporetto stop.

 

Yeah, they can't go all the way up the Canal, but they do go up the wide part, to the spot where the canal narrows to the "S".

[cruisemom42]

Tell me, then what was that monstrosity that went past my hotel. The hotel (Westin Regina & Europa) is right on the Grand Canal, across from the Church of Santa Maria della Salute, and in a little from the San Marco vaporetto stop.

 

Yeah, they can't go all the way up the Canal, but they do go up the wide part, to the spot where the canal narrows to the "S".

 

Cruise ships do not go up the Grand Canal. They use Giudecca Canal.

 

http://www.veniceonline.it/Maps/Map2_VeniceOnLine.jpg

 

The Westin and Europa appears to be located just about where the canal divides from the basin, so perhaps you saw a ship passing by.

[slidergirl]

Cruise ships do not go up the Grand Canal. They use Giudecca Canal.

 

http://www.veniceonline.it/Maps/Map2_VeniceOnLine.jpg

 

The Westin and Europa appears to be located just about where the canal divides from the basin, so perhaps you saw a ship passing by.

 

OK, so I'll charge the Westin with false advertising - I wanted to be on the Grand Canal, darnnit :-) And it was not "perhaps", but a definite ship passing by. There was this loud rumbling sound, the noise of all those passengers on deck oohing and aahing. And, for a brief moment, the sun was blotted out :-)

[letsgo39]

Cruise ships do not go up the Grand Canal. They use Giudecca Canal.

 

http://www.veniceonline.it/Maps/Map2_VeniceOnLine.jpg

 

The Westin and Europa appears to be located just about where the canal divides from the basin, so perhaps you saw a ship passing by.

 

 

Sorry but no matter what you were told the cruise ships do not go up the Grand Canal. The above statement is correct.They use the Giudecca Canal. San Marco is also not on the Grand Canal and the Cruise ships do go very close to San Marco.I was surprised at how close they go to land in that area.