How's the new HAL non smoking policy working out?

[pms4104]

You think? In the past few weeks Celebrity has made their smoking policy even tougher (guess that hit you say they took wasn't so bad after all) by pretty much banning all smoking inside their ships. Princess (a Carnival Brand)also recently made their smoking policy tougher by banning smoking on their verandahs (they had long banned smoking in cabins).

 

Hank

Hank

No, prior to January 15, 2012 sailings, Princess did not have a ban on cabin smoking ... they simply posted a note in the daily asking people to be considerate of their cabin's future occupant. The new policy: "For all voyages departing after January 15th, 2012, Princess Cruises will prohibit smoking in passenger staterooms and balconies ..."

[BruceMuzz]

You think? In the past few weeks Celebrity has made their smoking policy even tougher (guess that hit you say they took wasn't so bad after all) by pretty much banning all smoking inside their ships. Princess (a Carnival Brand)also recently made their smoking policy tougher by banning smoking on their verandahs (they had long banned smoking in cabins).

 

Hank

Hank

 

ALL the lines are making their smoking policies tougher, bit by bit.

 

Celebrity's move was very innovative - which is their style - but that move significantly decreased their yield. They are now forced to discount even deeper now to fill their ships. It's a corporate decision that may pay off in the long run. Short term, it is costing them a lot of money. You should take advantage of it while you can.

 

Carnival Corp made an interesting play for Celebrity's clientele by putting Princess Line head to head with Celebrity, and making HAL the smoker's alternative to Celebrity. This way, both lines compete directly with Celebrity, but not directly with each other.

Very clever.

[Amuse Bouche]

I think that it will only hasten the inevitable due to the increased complaints.

 

 

Or hasten the inevitable due to lack of options for smokers. Maybe HAL will become the tobacco line.

 

Non smokers are getting used to winning the battles. And yet, the tobacco industry has always been a force to reckon with. Prohibition didn't work either. I'm not saying smoking is a good thing...but it's not a fad. It's been around for thousands of years. A string of vehement opposers, all common humans and vocal for an average of 75 yrs each, (which is gracious, since there's childhood to consider) isn't likely to change anything.

[kazu]

Here in Florida when the smoking in restaurants ended all the restaurants began proving an outdoor patio for their smoking patrons & never lost any business. In the evening during the summer it's enjoyable to sit out there when there are no smokers. I thing it actually helped to increase business.

 

Here in my part of Canada, smoking is prohibited in the outdoor areas as well where the food is served.

[GeriatricNurse]

Here in Florida when the smoking in restaurants ended all the restaurants began proving an outdoor patio for their smoking patrons & never lost any business. In the evening during the summer it's enjoyable to sit out there when there are no smokers. I thing it actually helped to increase business.

 

 

Here in Ontario, (Canada):D, when the smoking in restaurants ended, it also INCLUDED no smoking on the outdoor patios! ;)

[soldham]

Here in Ontario, (Canada):D, when the smoking in restaurants ended, it also INCLUDED no smoking on the outdoor patios! ;)

 

That is not really true. There are limitations.....

 

The operator of a restaurant or bar must prohibit smoking on an outdoor patio if:

1. The patio is fully or partially covered by a roof.

o A roof includes an awning, tarp, canvas sheeting or other permanent or temporary

covering that is capable of excluding rain or impeding airflow, or both;

o A stand-alone umbrella covering a single table would not be considered a roof,

however, if umbrellas are used in such a way so as to serve as a roof, an inspector may

view it as such and act accordingly; or

2. The patio is adjacent to a smoke-free patio (partially or fully covered by a roof) or is a section

of a smoke-free patio (partially or fully covered by a roof). For example, if an L-shaped patio

has a section that is covered, smoking is prohibited on both the covered and uncovered sections

of the patio. However:

o If there are adjacent patios in an establishment that are separated by at least one-half

storey (1.37 meters), and one is covered

[Boytjie]

In Montana we have real factual numbers of declines in the bar business since the statewide smoking ban in public places. Two years ago the full ban went into effect, the first year business was off by +40%. The second year it remained off by +26%. We shall see what happens in the 3rd year (just ended) but it is suspected it will remain about 25% off. These revenues have been tracked by state receipts. It has closed many businesses and of course hurts related business. I am a non-smoker and think it was needed to be done but nonetheless has a devastating adjustment period.

 

Was it all due to smoking or perhaps also due to the recession?

[jimmy2x]

"Celebrity's move was very innovative - which is their style - but that move significantly decreased their yield. They are now forced to discount even deeper now to fill their ships. It's a corporate decision that may pay off in the long run. Short term, it is costing them a lot of money. You should take advantage of it while you can."

 

There certainly would seem to be more than a grain of truth in this. We booked the 14 day cruise on the Eclipse in a CC class cabin for March 2013. Frankly, with the military discount, additional $300 off promotion, and an $80 Captain's Club credit, they made me an offer that I couldn't refuse. We will likely miss HAL a bit, but we are not talking about a difference in price of just a couple of hundred dollars. Even if we took an inside cabin on the Maasdam or Ryndam, it would STILL be more expensive.

[m steve]

the priceline cruise line. Name your price and they'll fit you in so long as you don't smoke.

[chrispb]

You think? In the past few weeks Celebrity has made their smoking policy even tougher (guess that hit you say they took wasn't so bad after all) by pretty much banning all smoking inside their ships. Princess (a Carnival Brand)also recently made their smoking policy tougher by banning smoking on their verandahs (they had long banned smoking in cabins).

 

Hank

Hank

You are wrong about Princess - smoking was still allowed in staterooms last July. I believe their policy changed this month.

[chrispb]

Sorry, didn't realise this has already been pointed out.

[sail7seas]

ALL the lines are making their smoking policies tougher, bit by bit.

 

Celebrity's move was very innovative - which is their style - but that move significantly decreased their yield. They are now forced to discount even deeper now to fill their ships. It's a corporate decision that may pay off in the long run. Short term, it is costing them a lot of money. You should take advantage of it while you can.

 

Carnival Corp made an interesting play for Celebrity's clientele by putting Princess Line head to head with Celebrity, and making HAL the smoker's alternative to Celebrity. This way, both lines compete directly with Celebrity, but not directly with each other.

Very clever.

 

Or hasten the inevitable due to lack of options for smokers. Maybe HAL will become the tobacco line.

 

<snip>

 

 

 

 

How nice.

HAL will be Ashtray of the Seas.

 

[chrispb]

How nice.

HAL will be Ashtray of the Seas.

 

Yep, can't wait:D

[hulamoon]

ALL the lines are making their smoking policies tougher, bit by bit.

 

Celebrity's move was very innovative - which is their style - but that move significantly decreased their yield. They are now forced to discount even deeper now to fill their ships. It's a corporate decision that may pay off in the long run. Short term, it is costing them a lot of money. You should take advantage of it while you can.

 

Carnival Corp made an interesting play for Celebrity's clientele by putting Princess Line head to head with Celebrity, and making HAL the smoker's alternative to Celebrity. This way, both lines compete directly with Celebrity, but not directly with each other.

Very clever.

 

I think your assessment is clever too. But wouldn't it make HAL the obvious line of choice for Princess and Celebrity cruisers who want a more liberal smoking policy? Or are they so loyal they will not leave Princess?

 

I wondered why during an earlier smoking discussion, why CCL does not allow clients to move their loyalty program from brand to brand. Princess to HAL, or HAL to Princess if they would be more comfortable with the new policy elsewhere. That way, it may curb some of them trying Celebrity.

 

Sales happen on ships everywhere, but I agree I think Celebrity does have base pricing lower on cruises I am interested in taking. I noticed I spent more on that line when I got on the ship, mostly in bars though because so many were non smoking and interesting. You probably know more than I that the smoking policy is related to loss of revenue with Celebrity, but they are also putting a lot more cabin space on the sea so there are more cabins to fill.

 

In a short time we shall see if HAL's new policy increases cabin demand. I also wonder, what percentage of passengers care so much? What percentage fall into the will not cruise with smoking on balconies/will not cruise without smoking on balconies. 10 to 15%?

 

Celebrity seems to be floating a trial of more restrictive policy, virtually no smoking inside the ship and I imagine they are doing this because of Princess.

[sail7seas]

 

<snip>

 

 

In a short time we shall see if HAL's new policy increases cabin demand. I also wonder, what percentage of passengers care so much? What percentage fall into the will not cruise with smoking on balconies/will not cruise without smoking on balconies. 10 to 15%?

[/Quote]

 

 

HAL did a survery for Years to determine just that information.

We got those forms cruise after cruise after cruise to discover they are going to become known as the smoker's cruise line.

 

[hulamoon]

I am not in the know by any means, but it does appear the final decision was corporate, CCL, as BruceMuzz was discussing. I wish the decision was different but I am sure I am included in the calcuation of what business may be lost and won back by possibly Princess.

 

On the other hand, I finally am cruising on no smoking balconies, and that is excellent. Because I am a non smoker I didn't develop a cassino habit, but may give that a try too.

[peaches from georgia]

It's not like HAL has increased the areas where one can smoke. They have been reducing the smoking allowed areas over the last few years and now have eliminated cabin smoking, too. You'd think HAL had increased the smoking areas rather than decreased.

 

I don't pay any attention to non-smokers' complaints about HAL if they are not willing to change to or at least try one of the fine cruiselines that have a smoking policy which meet their requirements. No smoking on balconies obviously is really not as important as they say.

[sail7seas]

They have kept a more permissive policy than other cruise lines in their category.

They are inviting smokers who usually book veranda cabins to come book their veranda on HAL as Celebrity and Princess will not permit veranda smoking.

 

We have read here repeatedly of people who will 'move on over' because of the more lenient policy HAL has chosen. They COULD have done as the other lines did but they chose not to.

 

[hulamoon]

That is right, they know they are going to loose customers, gain customers and they hope the numbers work to their benefit.

 

It's not personal and therefore we hurt ourselves when we begin to think so.

[fleckle]

.....I also wonder, what percentage of passengers care so much? What percentage fall into the will not cruise with smoking on balconies/will not cruise without smoking on balconies. 10 to 15%?

But there are also many of us in the "prefer to cruise with smoking" or "prefer to cruise without smoking" categories who are at least of equal importance to the cruise lines and possibly make up even a higher percentage of cruise passengers.

 

We do care. We care a lot. The smoking policy is definitely an important factor in our cruise choice, even if it is not an absolute deal breaker.

If it a "one of a kind" cruise that we really want, we would most likely book it regardless of the smoking policy.

 

However, in a competitive market where there are two or more ships offering similar itineraries at similar prices, the one that meets with our smoking preference is the one that will get our business.

[jabers]

We just got off Zuiderdam & our only problem was having to walk thru the Casino to get to Vista lounge beyond. We would have actually used the casino if smoking was banned there. We had no problem with balcony smoke - maybe we just got lucky?

[sail7seas]

Yes, it is simply a matter of luck if we are able to use and enjoy our veranda. IF you are lucky, you won't have a smoker spoiling the air beside you. If you are not lucky, you could lose use of your veranda for the whole cruise as has happened to us. We had smokers on both sides of us and I don't think they ever left their verandas. Whenever we went out, they were there puffing away.

 

 

[hulamoon]

But there are also many of us in the "prefer to cruise with smoking" or "prefer to cruise without smoking" categories who are at least of equal importance to the cruise lines and possibly make up even a higher percentage of cruise passengers.

 

We do care. We care a lot. The smoking policy is definitely an important factor in our cruise choice, even if it is not an absolute deal breaker.

If it a "one of a kind" cruise that we really want, we would most likely book it regardless of the smoking policy.

 

However, in a competitive market where there are two or more ships offering similar itineraries at similar prices, the one that meets with our smoking preference is the one that will get our business.

 

It is important to me too.

[cruisin'girl]

Yes, it is simply a matter of luck if we are able to use and enjoy our veranda. IF you are lucky, you won't have a smoker spoiling the air beside you. If you are not lucky, you could lose use of your veranda for the whole cruise as has happened to us. We had smokers on both sides of us and I don't think they ever left their verandas. Whenever we went out, they were there puffing away.

 

 

Which of course is why they booked with a cruiseline which allows verandah smoking.

[hulamoon]

When use of an amenity that is important becomes a matter of luck, you only have a couple of choices to avoid bitterness.

 

Stop caring so much about the amenity or cruise with a line that offers you a smoke free experience.

 

HAL made their choice.