Rules for conversation in the dining room!

[Gathina]

I don't get it. Praying in silent and not involving everyone else..why is that rude?

 

Attending to your personal hygeine in front of everyone? I could care less if you want to be rude and nasty in front of everyone. It's a reflection of who you are..someone who doesn't care if others think they are a slob. Good for you. Praying silently and not everyone else..a reflection of someone who has a spiritual relationship with a higher being, and they don't care what others think.

 

Absolutely have to agree. I feel the same way when I floss my teeth at the table right after I have eaten. I do it silently, so can't understand why some people are offended! I didn't ask them to floss with me!!!

[donaldsc]

Why is it inconsiderate? If someone prays silently and doesn't ask others to participate, what could possibly be wrong with that? They arent asking you to do it.

 

They can pray silently as much as they want as far as I am concerned. It is when they going verbal or physical or try to involve the rest of the table in their actions that I loose my cool.

 

DON

[fortinweb]

I don't get it. Praying in silent and not involving everyone else..why is that rude?

 

Attending to your personal hygeine in front of everyone? I could care less if you want to be rude and nasty in front of everyone. It's a reflection of who you are..someone who doesn't care if others think they are a slob. Good for you. Praying silently and not everyone else..a reflection of someone who has a spiritual relationship with a higher being, and they don't care what others think.

 

The problem is the level of acceptance (or lack of it) people have towards differing activities. You feel it is acceptable to pray at a communal table, but not for someone to floss their teeth (I suspect the poster was suggesting an outrageous example to prove a point). You call it "rude and nasty". Why is that any more so than the other way around. You are obviously putting your own values above the values of the other people if you truly feel that way, and that is what started this whole debate in the first place. You insist you are right because it is your spirituality - yet you insist they are wrong and call them slobs (how very spiritual of you, BTW) because it is something you don't approve of. No wonder people get riled up when people start discussing their religious views - "the only right way is my way".

 

My parents taught me that religion is a private matter, and it should be kept that way. That is how I practice my religion, and I prefer others to do so as well. If you must pray every time you eat something, do so in the privacy of your stateroom before you leave for your meal. Or request your own "praying" table.

[SantaFeFan]

They can pray silently as much as they want as far as I am concerned.

DON

 

I admit that I am not religious - lost my interest many years ago and have never regretted it. When strangers at a table begin to pray, silently or not, it creates an awkward and uncomfortable few moments for me. What am I supposed to do? Bow my head as if participating while instead thinking of my next excursion? Pause with a blank look on my face while you do your thing? Start eating or carrying on a conversation with others who aren't praying (wouldn't that be considered rude?). It interrupts the rest of the table. In my opinion, it is no less rude than if I pulled out my cellphone and started texting to someone else, effectively shutting you out. Either action divides people.

[Gathina]

I argree with you. Unless I misunderstood the other poster, I thought he was saying that it's still rude and incosiderate to pray silently to yourself before your meal even if you don't ask anyone else to participate or involve them.

 

They can pray silently as much as they want as far as I am concerned. It is when they going verbal or physical or try to involve the rest of the table in their actions that I loose my cool.

 

DON

[circuitrider]

Really, there's an issue with a SILENT prayer? I totally get being upset if someone tries to force their beliefs on me (if they tried to make me hold hands and say a prayer out loud...I'd stubbornly refuse). But if they take 10-15 seconds before they eat, bow their heads and don't say a word...there's something wrong with them? That's about the least intrusive way to conduct a prayer before a meal I can think of (and no, a prayer in the stateroom before heading to the MDR probably wouldn't count in most religions)

[jamessemaj]

I don't follow the adage of no discussion of religion or politics and think it makes no sense. There are other interesting topics, but those are at the top.

 

On the other hand, I would ignore conspicuous displays of praying or campaigning. Go to the room to pray, and campaigning limits discussion.

[sloopsailor]

Geez, some folks are so intolerant.

 

Swsfrail is annoyed that she is being told to be quiet while at her MDR table, and you call her "intolerant? You are kidding, aren't you???? Looking at her avatar, I don't think she's a four year old!

[sloopsailor]

Really, there's an issue with a SILENT prayer? I totally get being upset if someone tries to force their beliefs on me (if they tried to make me hold hands and say a prayer out loud...I'd stubbornly refuse). But if they take 10-15 seconds before they eat, bow their heads and don't say a word...there's something wrong with them? That's about the least intrusive way to conduct a prayer before a meal I can think of (and no, a prayer in the stateroom before heading to the MDR probably wouldn't count in most religions)

 

I agree with you, but you missed the point. It is an issue when others at the table are told to be quiet during those prayers. These others are trying to enjoy their time at the table as well, and shouldn't be expected to stop their activities so someone else can participate in a private activity. Tolerance is a two way street.

[swsfrail]

Trust me, I self medicate before, during, and after all meals.;)

 

I hear you! My medication of choice is a gin and tonic, without the tonic! :D

 

Swsfrail is annoyed that she is being told to be quiet while at her MDR table, and you call her "intolerant? You are kidding, aren't you???? Looking at her avatar, I don't think she's a four year old!

 

Put the number "80" in front of that "4". But a real lady never tells her exact age. Since no one could confuse this old broad as a "real" lady, I don't mind letting the secret out! ;)

[donaldsc]

Tolerance is a two way street.

 

A point totally missed by the ultra-religious of any faith but especially by those who are "true" believers.

 

DON

[navybankerteacher]

it is a sad commentary that there is so little tolerance shown on this thread. Sure, any conversation should only be entered into if all present were comfortable with the topic. And yes, any obvious demonstration of religios preference or observance would be an imposition on ones table mates. But, as a non-practicing sceptic, I have no problem with the notion that someone might fall silent for a few seconds before eating -- as far as I know he might be trying to suppress a belch, or remember a lost family member, or even be invoking his deity of choice -- be it Muslim. Jewish, Christian, Hindu, Bhuddist. Spaghetti Monster or whatever.

 

While I have no inclinitation to join in requesting such blessing, it certainly does not hurt me to simply pay no attention - neither interrupting, nor joining in, such communication with some invisible deity.

 

What does bother me, however, is the aggressive nature of many of my fellow sceptics' postings. There have been a few postings by believers which I find inappropriate -- but there are far more, and more offensive, postings by the supposedly objective and more intelligent non-believers: too many of them simply show themselves as small-minded, self-assured loud mouths intent on forcing their belief systems (for atheism is itself undeniably a belief system) upon others.

[Donray]

So in the end, it's really your own problem. You don't have to participate. You can just silently wait and be respectful or quietly start eating.

 

Praying in silence doesn't involve everyone. You just look the other way or ignore it. If you are talking on a cell phone you are involving everyone within earshot who is forced to listen to you if they can't tune you out.

 

Is it OK to continue any conversations. Is it OK to ask what they up to while they are silent? OK to say are you praying to the Easter Bunny?

 

It is rude. They can pray in the cabin before going to dinner.

[bus man]

Is it OK to continue any conversations. Is it OK to ask what they up to while they are silent? OK to say are you praying to the Easter Bunny?

 

It is rude. They can pray in the cabin before going to dinner.

 

Thank you for telling me how I may practice my religion. :rolleyes:

 

If I choose to pray before my meal, I don't expect my dining companions to stop what they're doing; feel free to go right on chatting away amongst yourselves. But I'm sure you can do without my conversational participation for a moment while I pause to ask God's blessings upon my meal. Momentarily bowing out from the conversation in order to pray is no more rude than doing so to chew my food.

 

Oh, and if you ask if I'm praying to the Easter Bunny . . . I will certainly answer your question. Word to the wise -- if you don't want to hear about my religious beliefs, don't ask about them!

[SantaFeFan]

it is a sad commentary that there is so little tolerance shown on this thread.....What does bother me, however, is the aggressive nature of many of my fellow sceptics' postings. There have been a few postings by believers which I find inappropriate -- but there are far more, and more offensive, postings by the supposedly objective and more intelligent non-believers: too many of them simply show themselves as small-minded, self-assured loud mouths intent on forcing their belief systems (for atheism is itself undeniably a belief system) upon others.

 

Do you really wonder why some people become incensed at religion and lash out? Perhaps it is because we are sick and tired of the religious morality "experts" constantly trying to force everyone to adhere to their tiny, narrow minded view of life? Perhaps it is because the religious community feels compelled to do everything in their power to decide for us who we can be with, what we do in our bedrooms, what we can do with our bodies, what we can do with our lives. Perhaps it is because we have had enough of religious conservative groups mobilizing to affect laws and government programs to force everyone else to live by their myopic ideas of morality. Perhaps it is because they raise money to blatantly affect elections to bring into power people who will govern to their religious beliefs. Perhaps it is because their rampant intolerance prevents them from minding their own business.

 

Whatever happened to love for your fellow man, to tolerance of different people and ideas, to separation of church and state? It certainly doesn't exist in religious circles when the lives of people with differing views are concerned.

 

Some of us have gotten very tired of it. We just want to go peacefully though life without them trying to control how we live our lives.

[boogs]

It's scary how this discussion has turned! On both sides of the religion debate, people are pointing fingers, using harsh words, allowing passion to get the better of them. It's no wonder that many people would prefer to leave religion out of casual discussions among strangers - it's much too volatile a subject, as this thread has effectively proven.

 

As for me, I'm outta here. It's way too stressful reading the word fighting that is going on this thread. I'd rather be talking about cruising.

[beachchick]

I don't follow the adage of no discussion of religion or politics and think it makes no sense. There are other interesting topics, but those are at the top.

 

On the other hand, I would ignore conspicuous displays of praying or campaigning. Go to the room to pray, and campaigning limits discussion.

 

They're at the top for you, no problem. They're not at the top for me on vacation/cruising. They are interesting subjects that I discuss with a limited number of people I know, not complete strangers assigned to me by a cruise line. Why must they be subjects of discussion under these circumstances? If you want to discuss religion and politics, feel free. I will tell you that I prefer to discuss other things on a cruise. And I will not engage in a discussion at dinner about why I don't prefer to discuss certain things at dinner while cruising.

 

It's scary how this discussion has turned! On both sides of the religion debate, people are pointing fingers, using harsh words, allowing passion to get the better of them. It's no wonder that many people would prefer to leave religion out of casual discussions among strangers - it's much too volatile a subject, as this thread has effectively proven.

 

As for me, I'm outta here. It's way too stressful reading the word fighting that is going on this thread. I'd rather be talking about cruising.

 

I certainly agree.

 

beachchick

[ducklite]

Is it OK to continue any conversations. Is it OK to ask what they up to while they are silent? OK to say are you praying to the Easter Bunny?

 

It is rude. They can pray in the cabin before going to dinner.

 

Feel free to continue the conversation, no one is asking you to stop talking amongst yourselves. Are you so insecure that someone who stops talking and looks down for 10 seconds would hurt your self-esteem? Generally when food arrives the table talk stops for a bit as people start to eat, and typically that's when someone would silently say a prayer. Or do you talk with your mouth full?

[Gathina]

It works both ways. You put your values ahead of people that prefer to pray in silent and assume they should bend over to make you feel comfortable.

 

My point was..and I'm starting to think that you would miss if it you sat on it..that everyone has a right to be who they are..if they choose to pray in silent I'm resopnsible for my own response to what they choose to do..the same way I'm resopnsible for my own response if you choose to do something I don't agree with.

 

If someone on a cruise choose to wear a Burka to dinner , and then say a silent prayer because of their faith, would that offend you too?

 

The problem is the level of acceptance (or lack of it) people have towards differing activities. You feel it is acceptable to pray at a communal table, but not for someone to floss their teeth (I suspect the poster was suggesting an outrageous example to prove a point). You call it "rude and nasty". Why is that any more so than the other way around. You are obviously putting your own values above the values of the other people if you truly feel that way, and that is what started this whole debate in the first place. You insist you are right because it is your spirituality - yet you insist they are wrong and call them slobs (how very spiritual of you, BTW) because it is something you don't approve of. No wonder people get riled up when people start discussing their religious views - "the only right way is my way".

 

My parents taught me that religion is a private matter, and it should be kept that way. That is how I practice my religion, and I prefer others to do so as well. If you must pray every time you eat something, do so in the privacy of your stateroom before you leave for your meal. Or request your own "praying" table.

[Gathina]

I'm not attacking anyone. I just said that if someone wants to bow their head and say a silent prayer that doesn't involve anyone else there is nothing wrong with that in my opinion.

 

I didn't offer my religious views or anything. So I'm not sure where you think I am getting on a religious high horse.

 

And I didn' say I expect everyone to wait for me to finish my prayers. Someone else asked what to do and I said that they could either wait quietly or start eating. What's the big deal?

 

Do you have somethign against Muslims who practice their faith? You are starting to sure sound like you do.

 

Please get down off your religious high horse. You are starting to prove to everyone why religion should be kept to yourselves.

 

First, you expect everyone at your table to silently wait and be respectful, or quietly start eating while you insist on saying your prayers? As far as I know, the MDR is a dining room, not a house of worship. Why the h**l should I "silently wait" or start "eating quietly"? Shouldn't I be shown a bit of respect in return and not be expected to adjust my activities so you can say your precious prayers? If I am talking to my companions at the table, I will not stop so you can pray. How insolent of you to demand I silence myself while at my dinner table?????

 

Second, your narrow mindedness is causing you to read into comments what you want it to say. For an example, SantaFeFan said nothing about talking on his cellphone. He specifically said TEXTING, a "quiet" activity that also shuts others out! Stick to the facts!

 

Third, it is typical of you religious zealots to pass judgment and insult anyone who doesn't behave to your approval. Calling people "rude and nasty" and "slobs" is as low a behavior as anything else they may have done to bring out the real religious pomposity that comes with your blind faith.

 

You aren't showing yourself in a very good light at all. Must be the religion in you showing it's true colors.

[michmike]

I hear you! My medication of choice is a gin and tonic, without the tonic! :D

 

 

 

Put the number "80" in front of that "4". But a real lady never tells her exact age. Since no one could confuse this old broad as a "real" lady, I don't mind letting the secret out! ;)

 

You'd probably enjoy my story of an experience I had a yr ago at my cardiologist's ofc (I was 63 at the time) I shared with the nurse as she was reviewing my meds, that I took Centrum Senior. She had already figured out by then that I had a sense of humor, so she told me, "you'll enjoy this one.. had an 84 yr old woman in here the other day and during her med review, she mentioned that she took Centrum. I said don't you mean Centrum Senior? She replied, No... that's for OLD people!" Gotta love the gal's spirit

[Jana60]

I agree with you, but you missed the point. It is an issue when others at the table are told to be quiet during those prayers. These others are trying to enjoy their time at the table as well, and shouldn't be expected to stop their activities so someone else can participate in a private activity. Tolerance is a two way street.

 

I have a firm and unshakable knowledge that our creator is present at all times and in all places most especially in the hearts of each of us and that God loves us and wants us to be happy. So by some folks standards I am a religious zealot. My personal feeling is that God is already aware that I am grateful for all of his blessings so I don't feel the need to say a prayer at each meal. However I do think that folks should feel free to pray prior to their meals if they desire. I also think that others who do not wish to pray are not held to any requirements of silence during that time. The person who is praying is simply talking to God. If you are sitting at a table for 4 and consider it rude to talk to the person next to you while someone across the table is talking to someone else then I wouldn't do it now. If on the other hand you are at a table for 8 and, as I do, talk to the person next to you even if the folks way across the table are talking to each other then you should continue to do so even if that person way across the table is talking to God. Since a conversation with God is not a public announcement, a person should certainly be silent in their prayer when in a public area.

To the person who suggested that it was just as acceptable to floss at the table as it is to talk to God I ask this: Would flossing at the dinner table be as acceptable as talking to your wife at the dinner table? Is it somehow more acceptable to talk to your spouse than to talk to God? Or do you just feel the need to have clean teeth when talking to God but not when talking to your spouse???

[Mercury]

What does bother me, however, is the aggressive nature of many of my fellow sceptics' postings. There have been a few postings by believers which I find inappropriate -- but there are far more, and more offensive, postings by the supposedly objective and more intelligent non-believers: too many of them simply show themselves as small-minded, self-assured loud mouths intent on forcing their belief systems (for atheism is itself undeniably a belief system) upon others.

 

I have to agree. The intolerance shown by some on this thread is very sad. I see no problem with anyone bowing their heads in prayerful thanks to their creator.

[Doug R.]

I have the solution!!!! In addition to choosing dining times you choose between conversation and no conversation tables. :p:D:rolleyes:

[Gathina]

Finally the voice of reason. I tend to believe 99% of the people follow a similar pattern and/or belief, myself included. There are always going to be a few LWL's out there as well who will insist "they" are right. What I've learned from this thread is that you can't argue with the villiage idiot. Eveyone has a right to believe what they want and practice what they want, and if it doesn't involve m then that's good. If I just dont want to participate at their invivtation to pray at the table, I can still be kind and say "no thank you" and that's that.

 

I've seen famillies with children bow their heads to pray together before a meal in a restaurant, etc. and the kids didn't protest. I thought it was nice that the family had a moral standard and was trying to teach their children something about their faith. I say good for them, if you want to teach your children something about faith better to do it in the home because you might not like the way they are going to choose from someone else's teaching.

 

I guess a lot of people in society are more socially retarded than I thought!

 

I have a firm and unshakable knowledge that our creator is present at all times and in all places most especially in the hearts of each of us and that God loves us and wants us to be happy. So by some folks standards I am a religious zealot. My personal feeling is that God is already aware that I am grateful for all of his blessings so I don't feel the need to say a prayer at each meal. However I do think that folks should feel free to pray prior to their meals if they desire. I also think that others who do not wish to pray are not held to any requirements of silence during that time. The person who is praying is simply talking to God. If you are sitting at a table for 4 and consider it rude to talk to the person next to you while someone across the table is talking to someone else then I wouldn't do it now. If on the other hand you are at a table for 8 and, as I do, talk to the person next to you even if the folks way across the table are talking to each other then you should continue to do so even if that person way across the table is talking to God. Since a conversation with God is not a public announcement, a person should certainly be silent in their prayer when in a public area.

To the person who suggested that it was just as acceptable to floss at the table as it is to talk to God I ask this: Would flossing at the dinner table be as acceptable as talking to your wife at the dinner table? Is it somehow more acceptable to talk to your spouse than to talk to God? Or do you just feel the need to have clean teeth when talking to God but not when talking to your spouse???