Rules for conversation in the dining room!

[johneeo]

Were you really incapable of grasping that as a college student?

 

Obviously a reflection on the failures of our educational institutions and those that teach.;)

[sloopsailor]

...at least half the time that means you wanna save my soul......

 

And the other half will pass judgment on you for who you are if it doesn't meet their narrow minded view of life. My cousin is gay. He is forever being vilified by religious conservatives. My married sister and her husband have chosen not to have children. They are constantly being told how sinful they are for being so selfish (remember the position Rick Santorum took on this during the GOP primaries?). My wife is into Hinduism, and she avoids revealing this detail to people because on more than one occasion a Christian told her that it was actually Satanism. One of my friends is a scientist studying evolutionary trends to anticipate the future viability of different species. He is often lectured by Christians that evolution is a "theory" that has no basis in fact.

 

Yeah, like I would ever want to have a discussion about their religious views! :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[surrocruiser]

Such an interesting thread! I always have such a difficult time sitting at a table for 8 and only knowing 1 other person at the begining of a cruise. I'm very quiet at initial meetings (working on being better) so my husband knows his role is to be the conversationalist and try to talk about things I know something about so I can try to be involved.

 

I would be interested in having any of these conversations with anyone unless they were completely close minded. I don't want to change your mind about what you believe, so don't attempt to change mine. Unfortunately, my downfall would be the person who likes to tell me my opinion is wrong and I need to change it. That's when I can't shut up.:rolleyes:

[Donray]

You seem to have fallen into a trap of your own making.

 

 

The point is: virtually any topic can be discussed in an intelligent fashion -- it is just the dogmatic approach (such as yours) which can turn any topic into a minefield.

 

You have made the point that Christians cannot discuss religion in a logical manner. They have a hard time defending why the god of the bible is a mass killer and don't really want to have that kind of discussion.

They don't want to discuss why god created cancer and allows miscarriages.

Anti abortion people don't want to discuss why they think it is OK to torture a rape victim by forcing her to have a baby of rape.

People don't like to have there belief system undermined with facts to the contrary.

 

People don't want to discuss religion, they want to discuss their faith.

[navybankerteacher]

You have made the point that Christians cannot discuss religion in a logical manner. They have a hard time defending why the god of the bible is a mass killer and don't really want to have that kind of discussion.

 

They don't want to discuss why god created cancer and allows miscarriages.

 

Anti abortion people don't want to discuss why they think it is OK to torture a rape victim by forcing her to have a baby of rape.

 

People don't like to have there belief system undermined with facts to the contrary.

 

 

People don't want to discuss religion, they want to discuss their faith.

 

I have made no such point. My stating that people should be able to discuss matters intelligently - meaning objectively - can only be taken as a negative by someone who wants to hear only his own point.

 

I am not so much interested in discussing my views as I am in hearing the views (not indoctrination) of others. If someone is sufficiently curious to as my views, I will provide them --- you have made your belief system fairly clear.

[Gathina]

You are so right on. I was at a dinner party last year and an Episcopal priest was going on and on with bashing Republicans...I am not a Republican..or a Democrat..I made the mere comment that even though Sarah Palin was controversial, at least she wasn't afraid to stand up for what she believed in which is an admirable character trait even if you don't agree with her views. He went on and on to say some really uncalled for things which led to a big Republican bashing. I quietly said, "You know, I'm not a Republican or a Democrat, but I would expect a Priest to be a little kinder when talking about people." I excused myself and went elsewhere in the room.

 

At the end of the party, he quietly came to me and apologized for being rude and admitted he shouldn't be talking so negative about people that don't believe the way he does and he should have been kinder.

 

 

I have made no such point. My stating that people should be able to discuss matters intelligently - meaning objectively - can only be taken as a negative by someone who wants to hear only his own point.

 

I am not so much interested in discussing my views as I am in hearing the views (not indoctrination) of others. If someone is sufficiently curious to as my views, I will provide them --- you have made your belief system fairly clear.

[Smokeyham]

 

Food choices: I also had somebody think I was silly for NOT eating dessert every night on a different cruise

 

That's the one which gets me, when strangers think they can/should give you "advice" on what to eat; the "go on, have the creme brulee, it's great" statement, when you've already said "no" to wanting any dessert.

[spookwife]

 

Were you really incapable of grasping that as a college student?

 

My my excuse me. but as a matter of fact I have a problem with some states holding more sway than others just because they are more populous.

 

especially since many presidents lose the popular vote but still end up in the Oval Office.

 

 

One man, one vote. not one state gets more votes than another

[navybankerteacher]

My my excuse me. but as a matter of fact I have a problem with some states holding more sway than others just because they are more populous.

 

especially since many presidents lose the popular vote but still end up in the Oval Office.

 

 

One man, one vote. not one state gets more votes than another

 

 

One man one vote is a good idea, but not the only workable one. In a federal union, which is what (whether you like it or not) the United States happens to be, having the member states, not the population at large, select the president makes sense.

 

It is difficult for me to understand why you "...have a problem with some states holding more sway than others just because they are more populous." and then go on with the "one man one vote" mantra.

 

Finally, just how many presidents do you think have lost the popular vote but still ended up in the Oval Office?

 

I cannot help feeling that you might actually benefit to listening to some intelligent (and, hopefully, courteous) political discussions.

[IndyDenise]

Finally, just how many presidents do you think have lost the popular vote but still ended up in the Oval Office?

 

____________

 

George Bush , 2000.

[johneeo]

Finally, just how many presidents do you think have lost the popular vote but still ended up in the Oval Office?

 

____________

 

George Bush , 2000.

 

John Quincy Adams who lost by 44,804 votes to Andrew Jackson in 1824

Rutherford B. Hayes who lost by 264,292 votes to Samuel J. Tilden in 1876

Benjamin Harrison who lost by 95,713 votes to Grover Cleveland in 1888

George W. Bush who lost by 543,816 votes to Al Gore in the 2000 election.

[Cruisin' Chick]

When I was helping my daughter with her US History homework last year, I read the chapters covering the establishment of the US, including the Constitution. There was an entire section devoted to the Constitutional Convention, at which the different factions were trying to get more power to benefit their new state (big vs small, based on white male population, etc). Very contentious. I didn't remember much of this, considering the last time I studied US History was way back in 11th grade. I think calculus pushed out much of those details out of my brain.:D

 

On cruises,we've shared tables with folks from the UK, Canada, and Australia. I don't believe the subject of the Electoral College came up, but I wouldn't be bothered, unless someone insisted we're dumb Americans for not changing it. But even then, I would only shrug and say I guess if enough people in this country don't like it, they can work for change. Maybe some people don't won't to discuss it because they don't understand how it works. I would guess the majority of Americans know very little, and only think about it when there's a Presidential election. And it wouldn't be the same as if someone made some crack about an elected official (even though here at home, we do that all time about certain pols:o).

 

As for conversational topics, once everyone told their names, where they're from (if someone wants to be general as to location, don't push it), maybe their occupations (again, some people don't like to talk about work), you can move on to cruises. How many have you been on, what cruiselines, ships, itineraries? Maybe someone has done an itinerary that you're interested in. If it's someone's first cruise, you can ask if they have any questions that you may be able to answer.

 

We've found with traditional dining and having the same tablemates, it's often fun to talk about what everyone did that day. If a port day is coming up, what does everyone have planned or if they're just going to wing it. Maybe you went to the show the night before and they're interested in whether it's worth it or not (on ships where some entertainers perform more than once).

[LynnTTT]

I will try my best to keep my cool, but I suspect that there will be some conversation on the second day! We leave at 4:00 PM on Tuesday Nov 6th, but that's 10:00 am US time. I don't plan on staying up all night to hear the results, but will definately want to know in the am. I've already warned my husband that I don't care what the wifi costs, I have to know!

[fleckle]

I'm sitting here reading and laughing at all the squabbling and dissention expressed on this thread, and we are not even in the dining room on a cruise ship.

 

This thread provides a good demonstration of why many people try to avoid discussing controversial issues at social functions, such as dinners with strangers.

 

Just picture the most contentious members of this group (not naming any names -- draw your own conclusions) at dinner with innocent, unsuspecting cruise passengers who arrive at the table expecting to have a peaceful, amicable, enjoyable meal.

 

Certainly the discussion would be lively and entertaining, if not peaceful or amicable.

For some that would make it highly enjoyable, while it would drive others away.

 

Perhaps on the form where they ask your dining preference, there should also be an option for debate table or traditional table. ;)

[electro]

We've found with traditional dining and having the same tablemates, it's often fun to talk about what everyone did that day. If a port day is coming up, what does everyone have planned or if they're just going to wing it.

 

But what if they went to visit a Temple/church/shrine/synagague/mosque?

(fill in depending on itinerary)

Should they not mention it because they would be bringing up the subject of religion?

 

Lois

[sail7seas]

That's the one which gets me, when strangers think they can/should give you "advice" on what to eat; the "go on, have the creme brulee, it's great" statement, when you've already said "no" to wanting any dessert.

 

 

 

It really irks me when strangers have an opinion what others should or should not be eating. Aside from the fact, they have no idea what medical conditions require someone to eat a particular diet but how do they feel it is any of their business? Do I really have to tell them I don't like any of the desserts enough to be willing to paste it on my hips and would prefer to wait for a night when a favorite of mine is offered?!!!

 

Boston Globe today has news story of France electing a new President yesterday. France will do the same for the election of a U.S. President.

 

 

I will try my best to keep my cool, but I suspect that there will be some conversation on the second day! We leave at 4:00 PM on Tuesday Nov 6th, but that's 10:00 am US time. I don't plan on staying up all night to hear the results, but will definately want to know in the am. I've already warned my husband that I don't care what the wifi costs, I have to know!

 

 

Fret not.

The election of a U.S. President is world news. You will have no difficulty finding election results on your cabin TV. Most of the larger cruise lines offer CNN and/or FOX 24 hours/7 days a week. You can tune in and find streaming results at anytime during the election coverage. World wide newspapers will certainly have the results on front page, above the fold.

 

[sloopsailor]

This thread is like the Energizer bunny - it just keeps going on and on and on! :D

 

Next time someone brings up religion at the table, I'll be most happy to share my own personal religious views - that I also worship an imaginary Supreme being. Her name is Diana.

 

Diana has instructed me to worship her every Tuesday, which I do with absolute devotion - she's on cable channel 253. If I do as she tells me, when I die I will find eternal life in her AAA rated resort called Rossnirvana. Ancient texts, called The Mojo, were written by some of Diana's early followers and say Rossnirvana exists somewhere over the rainbow. The Mojo is my ultimate guide as I go through the motions of normal life here on earth. My favorite verse from The Mojo is "Someday We'll Be Together".

 

Every evening before I go to bed I stand in the corner of my bedroom, place The Mojo on my head, clasp my hands across my groin, and pray to Diana that I will finally lose weight, keep most of my hair, and win the lottery (so far she hasn't been listening). Based on Diana's teachings, I no longer need to bathe, nor brush my teeth - she tells me I won't have a physical body in Rossnirvana. Instead my soul will ooze out of my earthly body and take on the shape of the foam on top a cup of my favorite coffee beverage, a Chocolate Cookie Crumble Frappuccino.

 

It is Diana's wish that I spread her word throughout the land, and I do so whenever I find unsuspecting, hopefully gullible people I can corner. Sitting at a dining room table with strangers is the perfect place. A six-pack of beer helps me to better articulate Diana's teachings on how we should all behave, what we can and can't do, and what is appropriate or not.

 

What? You think all of this is nonsense? That I'm just trying to cause trouble? You think there is no such supreme being called Diana? That there is no such eternal place as Rossnirvana? You think anyone would be foolish to believe this nonsensical stuff?

 

Well, now you know how I feel about you and your religion. :rolleyes:

[spookwife]

But what if they went to visit a Temple/church/shrine/synagague/mosque?

(fill in depending on itinerary)

Should they not mention it because they would be bringing up the subject of religion?

 

Lois

 

wanna talk about the awesome architecture, or the amazing stained glass windows? I am down with that. i do not need to know, nor do I care to know, that you spent 3 hours praying in Latin at Mass.

[fortinweb]

But what if they went to visit a Temple/church/shrine/synagague/mosque?

(fill in depending on itinerary)

Should they not mention it because they would be bringing up the subject of religion?

 

Lois

 

Sigh! Talking about a visit to a temple/church/shrine/synagague/mosque is indeed OK because it would be bringing up the subject of ARCHITECTURE, not religion!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Do you really think people go to see these places because they are religious?????? Do you think that if I go see an ancient roman temple, I must be a Pagan??? I go see them because I find the architecture interesting, just like I would any other interesting building or archaeological site. I rarely even know what religion the building is intended for, not do I care. Instead, I go to marvel at mankind's physical accomplishments, not their religious accomplishments.

[spookwife]

It is difficult for me to understand why you "...have a problem with some states holding more sway than others just because they are more populous." and then go on with the "one man one vote" mantra.

 

 

I cannot help feeling that you might actually benefit to listening to some intelligent (and, hopefully, courteous) political discussions.

 

sorry don't agree with the premise that if you win the state you get ALL the votes that state is entitled to. esp if you BARELY win said state. or the fact that industrial states are worth more than agricultural ones just by virtue of their population.

 

as for that last comment, well I personally don't care enough to get into a lively discourse. call me apathetic if you will but politics makes my brain hurt and i Really really REALLY wish we'd take a page from Heinlein and NEVER allow anyone who WANTS the job anywhere NEAR the Oval Office. Hell every 4 years i am sorely tempted to write in Colin Powell.. simply because the man is smart enough to say oh hell no. THAT is somebody we need in Office. not somebody who bought their way in.

 

anywho.. back on topic...

[boogs]

This thread is like the Energizer bunny - it just keeps going on and on and on! :D

 

Next time someone brings up religion at the table, I'll be most happy to share my own personal religious views - that I also worship an imaginary Supreme being. Her name is Diana.

 

Diana has instructed me to worship her every Tuesday, which I do with absolute devotion - she's on cable channel 253. If I do as she tells me, when I die I will find eternal life in her AAA rated resort called Rossnirvana. Ancient texts, called The Mojo, were written by some of Diana's early followers and say Rossnirvana exists somewhere over the rainbow. The Mojo is my ultimate guide as I go through the motions of normal life here on earth. My favorite verse from The Mojo is "Someday We'll Be Together".

 

Every evening before I go to bed I stand in the corner of my bedroom, place The Mojo on my head, clasp my hands across my groin, and pray to Diana that I will finally lose weight, keep most of my hair, and win the lottery (so far she hasn't been listening). Based on Diana's teachings, I no longer need to bathe, nor brush my teeth - she tells me I won't have a physical body in Rossnirvana. Instead my soul will ooze out of my earthly body and take on the shape of the foam on top a cup of my favorite coffee beverage, a Chocolate Cookie Crumble Frappuccino.

 

It is Diana's wish that I spread her word throughout the land, and I do so whenever I find unsuspecting, hopefully gullible people I can corner. Sitting at a dining room table with strangers is the perfect place. A six-pack of beer helps me to better articulate Diana's teachings on how we should all behave, what we can and can't do, and what is appropriate or not.

 

What? You think all of this is nonsense? That I'm just trying to cause trouble? You think there is no such supreme being called Diana? That there is no such eternal place as Rossnirvana? You think anyone would be foolish to believe this nonsensical stuff?

 

Well, now you know how I feel about you and your religion. :rolleyes:

 

A 'Supreme' Being called "Diana"? An eternal life in a place called "Rossnirvana"? An ancient text called "The Mojo"? A favorite Mojo verse, "Someday We'll Be Together"?

 

Funny stuff! Those were the days when good music could save the soul! :D

[electro]

Sigh! Talking about a visit to a temple/church/shrine/synagague/mosque is indeed OK because it would be bringing up the subject of ARCHITECTURE, not religion!!!! :rolleyes:

 

Do you really think people go to see these places because they are religious?????? Do you think that if I go see an ancient roman temple, I must be a Pagan??? I'm really not sure how you got that out of what I said! I go see them because I find the architecture interesting, just like I would any other interesting building or archaeological site. I rarely even know what religion the building is intended for, not do I care. Instead, I go to marvel at mankind's physical accomplishments, not their religious accomplishments.

 

I never said anything about going to these places because you are religious.

Nor did I say that you must be of the religion of the place you are visiting. I have visited most of the places I've mentioned and am obviously not of all of those religions.

Doesn't mean I can't talk about what the artifacts mean or why a particular building is the way it is?

What is the water for infront of a shrine. Etc.

A lot of cultures have a strong religious fondation and to learn about the religion helps you understand the culture. Doesn't mean I have to agree with it but I am willing to learn about things that I may not agree with.

 

I just don't see anything wrong with this type of conversation.

 

Lois

[electro]

wanna talk about the awesome architecture, or the amazing stained glass windows? I am down with that. i do not need to know, nor do I care to know, that you spent 3 hours praying in Latin at Mass.

 

Where did I say anything about praying?:confused:

[Cruisin' Chick]

A 'Supreme' Being called "Diana"? An eternal life in a place called "Rossnirvana"? An ancient text called "The Mojo"? A favorite Mojo verse, "Someday We'll Be Together"?

 

Funny stuff! Those were the days when good music could save the soul! :D

 

Services to be conducted by Gordy.

[boogs]

Where did I say anything about praying?:confused:

 

I never said anything about going to these places because you are religious.

 

Well, you are the one who brought the question of whether discussing these architectural buildings is appropriate because of their religious purpose, which was worded in a way that could have been construed as a challenge. If that's not what you meant, it unfortunately was easy for people to misunderstood your intention.

 

Hopefully, no offence will be taken if people had an honest misunderstanding.