Night Helicopter Medivac on Liberty

[TPKeller]

I have to laugh at this since the US Navy and the USCG does this every single day. and some of the Frigates are smaller than your average cruise ship.

Yes, but...

 

Naval ships have a little help. A device called a Beartrap.

 

The helicopter hovers over the small landing area on the ship, and drops a line, which a crew member attaches to a heavier line from a winch installed directly below the helipad.

 

The helicopter crew then pulls in that winch line and attaches it to the bottom of the helicopter, which then increases power, lifting up and pulling that line tight.

 

This synchronizes the movement of the helo with the bobbing of the ship, as long as the helo keeps enough extra lift to keep that line stretched tight. The ship then uses the winch to "reel in" the helicopter, until it is just above the deck, and at the opportune moment, the pilot then lands, and the aircraft is quickly secured to the deck.

 

MUCH MUCH different than a free flying landing, even on a bigger cruise ship.

 

See Wiki article here:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beartrap_%28hauldown_device%29

 

Theron

[GSuitesailing]

Reedl, You did a great job with the video. I hope all turned out well for the patient and her husband. It must have been quite an ordeal for them.

[BillOh]

Don't know why they would even try unless they knew it was safe. Have always seen basket lifts, never a landing.

 

Don't all Voyager and Freedom class ships have a wire that runs from up near the bridge to the bow of the ship? I remember my first cruise on Voyager noticing the H on the Helipad and noting the presence of the wire and wondering if they took it down for helicopters, but as it would happen they did have to medivac someone off that ship and they just sent the crew member and the basket down.

[emmy]

It sounds like there is confusion. I think there were two different med evacs 2 weeks in a row and those are being intertwined? Maybe? I wasn't on either one, but from what I've read on a couple different threads seem to indicate as much.

 

 

I am thinking that is what happened as well. Two different med evacs are being spoken of here. I believe the info that aquahound has given to us did happen but is not the med evac that was captured in the video.

[Aquahound]

The person was not 400 lbs and the person was not cleared by her doctor to sail.

 

It sounds like there is confusion. I think there were two different med evacs 2 weeks in a row and those are being intertwined? Maybe? I wasn't on either one, but from what I've read on a couple different threads seem to indicate as much.

 

Reney, I think you are correct. These people are insisting it was a woman, but I was physically there when the lift of a 400 man from LOS last week was briefed to senor leadership (I work for USCG). If a woman was medevac'd by helo from the same ship, then there are 2 different helo medevacs getting confused here.

 

Edit - Yes, these are 2 diferent cases. The one of which I speak did happen at night from LOS, but it was Dec 1. Sorry for any confusion.

[travelgoddess1]

Were you at sea when this happened?

 

The reason I ask, on our Explorer cruise, we had one also, while at sea.

 

I had the opportunity to discuss with the captain, and he told me that while sailing at sea, he would never allow a helicopter to land. Said that it was too dangerous and easier to do a lift. Also, the ship had to be moving to be in full control.

 

We had one on Grandeur maiden voyage in '96 - which does not have a helipad - and they had to do a basket lift at the pool area. It was windy and a bit choppy so the lift was not easy, but amazing to see the Coast Guard in action.

 

I will echo your comments in that the captain later explained that even if they could have landed he wouldn't allow it at sea for the same reasons you mentioned.

 

We have been on 4 cruises with evacuations -- 2 Vision Class, where the only option was lifting the patient off in a basket, and 1 each Voyager and Radiance Class, with the helipads. On both of those, the helicopter landed, after circling the ship a few times. The first was Navigator, from Cozumel back to Miami, in 2004, and the second was Serenade, Honolulu to San Diego, in 2007. (We had to turn back to Honolulu until we were within helicopter range.)

[matj2000]

Sounds like RC needs healthier patients..

[TPKeller]

Don't all Voyager and Freedom class ships have a wire that runs from up near the bridge to the bow of the ship? I remember my first cruise on Voyager noticing the H on the Helipad and noting the presence of the wire and wondering if they took it down for helicopters, but as it would happen they did have to medivac someone off that ship and they just sent the crew member and the basket down.

Hey Bill!

 

Yes, they do, but if you look more carefully at all the "stuff" right on the front of those ships, you will notice that it's all built so that it is easy to either remove or pivot down completely out of the way. They can make the front area around the helipad completely free of obstacles very quickly when they need to do so.

 

Theron

[Capt_BJ]

a few thoughts from someone who’s spent time in the captain’s chair of a CG Cutter that landed helo’s thousands of times and launched on cases like this over and over again...

 

A speaking about OP’s video w/out heading off to every possible situation

 

1. In OP’s video the helo is a CG Jayhawk – which is a variant of the H-60 Blackhawk built with CG special modifications. When first bought the Jay’ was envisioned for CG shipboard use but that was later decided to be a bad idea and the plane is no longer used for ship deployment and as such, the pilots do not maintain qualification for ship landings in this aircraft.

 

2. To maintain ship landing qualifications a CG pilot must perform a certain number of ship landings every year – under an instructor pilot etc etc. Similarly the ship must conduct a set number of landings every year (actually monthly when deployed with a helo) & the crew must attend special fire fighting schools, the landing teams receive annual training and inspections of both procedures and equipment. It is a very involved process, which cruise ships do NOT have any experience with.

 

3. A helo sitting with the rotors spinning in its most unstable condition. On land this is not a huge worry but it is still true. When “land” can move this is a BIG deal. A post mentioned the NAVY’s use of beartrap. CG cutters have a different system, but similar in result, called TALON which couples the helo to the ship when activated by the pilot. It does not always work tho and so specially trained crews are ready to run out to the helo and quickly tie the helo down. Similarly for takeoff they know how to remove the tie downs safely. It is a procedure rehearsed hundreds of times so that every pilot knows every ship crew will do it the same way.

 

4. When a helo comes in to land they are very concerned about FOD ... they don’t want the blades or engine to hit crud kicked up in the air. Watch OPs video around minute 13 when the stretcher is being hooked up. Note the life rails which have been lowered so they are “out of the way” – at least two sections come loose and lift up and bounce about. If that happened as the helo approached to land or was in the initial stages of takeoff it could swat the plane out of the sky. I have pictures of a helo crashed in the water along side a cutter from similar circumstances; it ain’t pretty. CG crews are also trained in getting boats in the water fast if this happens and how to access the safety exits from the outside.

 

5. Ponder this: when the helo decides to hoist – why do they lower a CG person to the cruise ship to do the hook ups? I mean all that needs be done is hook up – or load a basket . . . if you don’t feel safe lowering a hook to the deck without 'your guy there' would you want to land there?

 

Quiz question

 

As I understand it this incident happened in the Between Labadee and Jamaica (next port call). The Jayhawk has an effective range of 300 miles for an out and back, 600 miles straight line; cruising speed around 150 MPH. It does not have in flight refuel capability. The only CG airstation in Florida that operates the JayHawk is in Cleawater. From Clearwater to the north Windward Pass (between Haiti and Cuba – or the path from Lab to Ja) is over 700 miles. Does this raise any questions in your mind? Did they fly that far and long? where did they refuel? What hospital did they go to? Why didn’t a closer commercial air ambulance take this call {for the obvious profit}?

[travelgoddess1]

Sounds like RC needs healthier patients..

 

THAT is what you get from this?:eek:

[alfaeric]

As I understand it this incident happened in the Between Labadee and Jamaica (next port call). The Jayhawk has an effective range of 300 miles for an out and back, 600 miles straight line; cruising speed around 150 MPH. It does not have in flight refuel capability. The only CG airstation in Florida that operates the JayHawk is in Cleawater. From Clearwater to the north Windward Pass (between Haiti and Cuba – or the path from Lab to Ja) is over 700 miles. Does this raise any questions in your mind? Did they fly that far and long? where did they refuel? What hospital did they go to? Why didn’t a closer commercial air ambulance take this call {for the obvious profit}?

 

The captain mentioned that the CG station was in the Turks and Cacos's.

[UNV-IT!!!]

We have been on 4 cruises with evacuations -- 2 Vision Class, where the only option was lifting the patient off in a basket, and 1 each Voyager and Radiance Class, with the helipads. On both of those, the helicopter landed, after circling the ship a few times. The first was Navigator, from Cozumel back to Miami, in 2004, and the second was Serenade, Honolulu to San Diego, in 2007. (We had to turn back to Honolulu until we were within helicopter range.)

 

I was on the same navigator cruise as you. I have pictures of the landing somewhere on my computer. That was HH-65 dolphin. It did land.

[Aquahound]

I was on the same navigator cruise as you. I have pictures of the landing somewhere on my computer. That was HH-65 dolphin. It did land.

 

You are correct. This was the incident I was originally referring to.

[ACruiserinFL]

Thanks for posting that video, that was really interesting. There is no way I'd ever want to leave the ship in one of those baskets!

[Capt_BJ]

The captain mentioned that the CG station was in the Turks and Cacos's.

 

we'll count it as a win

 

but actually only close

 

google "OPBAT"

 

or take a look at http://lowcountry-listening-post.blogspot.com/2008/09/opbat-great-inagua-base-damage.html

 

"An HH-60 Jayhawk helicopter from Coast Guard Air Station Clearwater, Fla., sits in front of the damaged aviation detachment hangar at Great Inagua, Bahamas.

The hanger was severely damaged by Hurricane Ike. The aviation detachment serves as an airbase for crews deployed in support of Operation Bahamas Turks and Caicos "

 

so that answers part of the question . . .

 

what hospital do you think they went to?

 

and what about private air ambulance on your cruise insurance . . . .

would they come get you?

 

answer me this . . .

 

why do you the tax payer, pay for a helo evacuation of a cruise ship passenger, from a non US ship, in international waters? We can't even say if the pass' was a US citizen.

 

{it costs money to be the world's good guy ... even when the world might not SEE U as the good guy}

 

or

 

do you think after Texas leaves the union they will have as effective a Coast Guard, Border Patrol or social security plan? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[mommamd]

How much does the Coast Guard charge for this MedEvac? I usually carry 100,000 dollars med evacuation in my travel insurance, but I wonder what the actual bill comes to? Does anybody know? Maybe its more and we all need to carry more insurance? Or maybe its only 10 or 20,000 dollars and we can cut down our coverage :) It could be that 100K is much more than we need in the Caribbean and Florida. I wonder.....

[Aquahound]

how much does the coast guard charge for this medevac? .

 

$0. :)

[Thameth]

Very interesting info..... I wonder if the Clearwater Jayhawk was in Miami, Key West, or Turks for training or some other reason? Miami and Key West have LARGE CG contingents which do fly Dolphin Heli's on a regular basis because I see them doing rounds around Miami when out on the water every single time.

 

Seems like the Turks base may be back up and running too... http://www.uscg.mil/d7/opbat/

 

Either way, great work USCG!

[nanner10]

 

I don't know a whole lot about surgery, but I would guess that if you are having post-op bleeding issues, it's probably to soon to be on a cruise.

 

But it's ok, all those people probably didn't want to go to Jamaica anyway..

 

It might NOT be best to decide for others if they cared if they missed a port because you really "don't know a whole lot" ;).

 

I was on the 12/3 Liberty sailing and the morning after the person was airlifted off the ship I spoke to a lovely woman shortly after we found out we would not be going on to Jamaica.

 

The woman relayed that she had flown from England with her elderly (88 years old?) mother, met up with her sister in Florida and they were taking this cruise specifically for the Jamaican port stop. She was taking her mother back to her birthplace, Jamaica, to see her relatives.

 

I am quite sure it mattered a whole lot to that family if they went to Jamaica.

 

This woman had not heard the Captain's announcement a short time earlier but heard us talking about it on the elevator. She got off with me so we could talk. She told me her story with a tear in her eye but immediately expressed concern for the sick person. Now that is a class act.

 

BTW, before someone decides to judge whether they should have taken a cruise (with there being no guarantees on port stops) lets not go down that road. It is not our business and not everyone realizes that not all ships make it to every port. Enough said right?

[travelgoddess1]

How much does the Coast Guard charge for this MedEvac? I usually carry 100,000 dollars med evacuation in my travel insurance, but I wonder what the actual bill comes to? Does anybody know? Maybe its more and we all need to carry more insurance? Or maybe its only 10 or 20,000 dollars and we can cut down our coverage :) It could be that 100K is much more than we need in the Caribbean and Florida. I wonder.....

 

A call to the company who issues your travel insurance policy would probably provide the information. It's a good question. :confused:

[Coralc]

A call to the company who issues your travel insurance policy would probably provide the information. It's a good question. :confused:

 

I actually posted an email to insure my trip.com....with this very question, Karen. I suggested it as a topic for one of their informative blog/emails.

 

It's something I've always wondered about. For Medevac's that are conducted by the US Coast Guard, there is no charge by USCG. My co-worker is a 27 year retired Coastie and he wasn't quite sure where the passenger charge comes from, either.

 

It must be a charge from the cruise line, we hear these astronomical figures of $25,000 or more....so how exactly do they calculate that?

 

Inquiring minds want to know. :D:):D

[Talisker92]

I have to laugh at this since the US Navy and the USCG does this every single day. and some of the Frigates are smaller than your average cruise ship.

 

That may be true. I worked on the Spruance Class Destroyer. BUT they have a dedicated open space for the helicopter to land plus hauldown cables to secure the helicopter in rough seas/high winds.

[Thameth]

Carnival will quote you $60k when you sign up for the travel insurance.....

 

Diverting a ship, calling out a helicopter of highly trained USCG, and then being transported to the nearest trauma center is NOT cheap....

[nanner10]

It might NOT be best to decide for others if they cared if they missed a port because you really "don't know a whole lot" ;).

 

I was on the 12/3 Liberty sailing and the morning after the person was airlifted off the ship I spoke to a lovely woman shortly after we found out we would not be going on to Jamaica.

 

The woman relayed that she had flown from England with her elderly (88 years old?) mother, met up with her sister in Florida and they were taking this cruise specifically for the Jamaican port stop. She was taking her mother back to her birthplace, Jamaica, to see her relatives.

 

I am quite sure it mattered a whole lot to that family if they went to Jamaica.

 

This woman had not heard the Captain's announcement a short time earlier but heard us talking about it on the elevator. She got off with me so we could talk. She told me her story with a tear in her eye but immediately expressed concern for the sick person. Now that is a class act.

 

BTW, before someone decides to judge whether they should have taken a cruise (with there being no guarantees on port stops) lets not go down that road. It is not our business and not everyone realizes that not all ships make it to every port. Enough said right?

 

Sorry if my post seemed uppity, I usually try not to do that but could not help myself tonight. :o

[edjny]

The woman relayed that she had flown from England with her elderly (88 years old?) mother, met up with her sister in Florida and they were taking this cruise specifically for the Jamaican port stop. She was taking her mother back to her birthplace, Jamaica, to see her relatives.

 

I am quite sure it mattered a whole lot to that family if they went to Jamaica.

 

This woman had not heard the Captain's announcement a short time earlier but heard us talking about it on the elevator. She got off with me so we could talk. She told me her story with a tear in her eye but immediately expressed concern for the sick person. Now that is a class act.

 

 

It is too bad that they did not get to Jamaican port. But, if one REALLY wants to go to a specific location, they should fly there and not depend on the variables of a cruise.