Seabourn Sojourn Food and Service

[CraftyEC]

Still feeling the 'edginess' (or possibly hint of spite?) of posts. Hmmm, time to go away and leave the board for a week or so, before I lose my goodwill and endanger my mood of anticipation ...

[fluckey]

I was on the cruise with Florida Jim/Happy Feet and I can honestly say that from my perspective, most of what he said was true. The conclusion I draw is a little different, however.

 

Food portions were small. A few items like the shrimp cocktail, the scallops, the lobster and my surf and turf one night were absurdly small. Most of the time the portions were small, but not ridiculously so. And a few of the meals were not well cooked. The Maine(?) lobster was tough and dry, for example, and one night I had lousy veal parm. But most of my meals were OK/good/very good, about what I expected. I should say that this was my first Seabourn cruise, but I have done a number of cruises on Regent. Other points he made were also true. Breakfast service in the dining room was often just downright bad. This is something I've noticed on other cruise lines (Regent and Cunard, for example). I've always suspected they keep it bad on purpose to push people toward the buffet. And regarding the dining room curtains the first few nights out of Buenos Aires, they should have been closed on the sun side. Whoever suggested otherwise either wasn't there or is just stupid.

 

Despite all that, I had a great time. 97+% of the staff were friendly and eager to please. A few needed more training or better manners, but for the most part the staff were great. About what I expected. I would also say that 97+% of the guests whom I met were friendly, pleasant people. I didn't encounter any issues of class distinctions, low class masquerading as high class, overly self-important people, snobs or whatever.

 

So I thought the cruise represented decent value. Not a screaming bargain, but I wasn't expecting Michelin three star every night for the price of a cruise. And when I had a lousy meal, I just moved on and tried to have a good time afterwards. I would do Seabourn again. Hopefully when I do, I won't meet all the obnoxious posters on this thread, but then again, I've always thought that the anonymity on the board brings out the worst in some people. I suspect some of you are nicer than you seem. At least I hope so.

[Bostonactor]

Thank you (and mariner and FlaminJune) for your excellent replies, which reflect my own feelings about this thread and the sad direction toward nit-picking and the bitterness I find.... AND the barely-veiled snobbery that I read here and on other threads. It doesn't turn me off sailing Seabourn, it turns me off the Seabourn CC site. As for this particular thread, my meagre thoughts: my still hard-working husband and my retired self have earned a rewarding life. We are rich..... in family, friends, books, theater, music. And we are lucky enough to have been able to put aside enough that we can travel once or twice a year. In our 70's and blessed with good health, we have discovered the joys of Seabourn and sea travel after years of more adventure-type travel. We have only done 2 cruises (and have a third booked next fall,) but I assure the OP and anyone else reading who is considering Seabourn, that we have met very thoughtful, interesting, well-mannered, and delightful people on our 2 cruises. The conversation might occasionally veer to professions or things like sailing, or wine, or cars or other interest that give a possible indication of wealth, but mostly nobody cares. There was never a conversation about investment or income or how much anyone spent on this particular cruise. Go and enjoy the cruise for what it is and where you are going. Some of the food is great, some good, some mediocre and some occasionally awful. Sort of like home. But, hopefully, you will find many other reasons to enjoy what we think is a stellar experience. Just stay away from the boors. There are always boors.... anywhere and everywhere.

[MicheleCda]

Thank you (and mariner and FlaminJune) for your excellent replies, which reflect my own feelings about this thread and the sad direction toward nit-picking and the bitterness I find.... AND the barely-veiled snobbery that I read here and on other threads. It doesn't turn me off sailing Seabourn, it turns me off the Seabourn CC site. As for this particular thread, my meagre thoughts: my still hard-working husband and my retired self have earned a rewarding life. We are rich..... in family, friends, books, theater, music. And we are lucky enough to have been able to put aside enough that we can travel once or twice a year. In our 70's and blessed with good health, we have discovered the joys of Seabourn and sea travel after years of more adventure-type travel. We have only done 2 cruises (and have a third booked next fall,) but I assure the OP and anyone else reading who is considering Seabourn, that we have met very thoughtful, interesting, well-mannered, and delightful people on our 2 cruises. The conversation might occasionally veer to professions or things like sailing, or wine, or cars or other interest that give a possible indication of wealth, but mostly nobody cares. There was never a conversation about investment or income or how much anyone spent on this particular cruise. Go and enjoy the cruise for what it is and where you are going. Some of the food is great, some good, some mediocre and some occasionally awful. Sort of like home. But, hopefully, you will find many other reasons to enjoy what we think is a stellar experience. Just stay away from the boors. There are always boors.... anywhere and everywhere.

 

If I have the pleasure of meeting you or any of the other (non-disparaging) posters on this thread during a cruise, I'll be sure to have a lovely vacation. It's nice to learn that this board isn't necessarily indicative of the type of passengers I will encounter and share time with on my cruise :).

[cruisecrazyone]

As we are still on Sojourn until April 9 I send my reassurances to all concerned that the food and service are, truly, excellent. Yes, I did have an horrific salad yesterday, but we have been eating in all the venues for 23 days now and are very happy. Welcome to Seabourn if you have not been on before. Martita got it "right", as usual. You will love your cruise no matter the length and 99% of the guests are very welcoming and friendly. Our only experience on Silversea was for 28 days. In mho, and the limited term of our experience on the Cloud considered, the guests did not seem to be as friendly or approachable as those on Seabourn. That is an extremely personal view, so perhaps you should try both lines in future and give us your feedback. Enjoy your first Seabourn cruise. You will be "hooked"!

[Host Dan]

Yes, I did have an horrific salad yesterday, but we have been eating in all the venues for 23 days now and are very happy.

How in the world could you end up with a horrific salad??? :D

 

Host Dan

[wripro]

Re: breeding to define class I prefer to contain that definition to dogs and cats. Class in people is exemplified by actions and attitude toward one's fellow man.

 

Re: sitting in the MDR at breakfast and experiencing "downright bad" service, I cannot imagine that and not getting up to speak to the maitre d'. But then as Eleanor Roosevelt said it's better to light a candle than to suffer in darkness.

[cruisecrazyone]

Well, Cruiser Dan, if one has a salad for lunch and it does not come with french fries, then it is horrific?!

[sananda]

Why should Fluckey, or any other person for that matter, have to complain in order to get good service aboard the Sojourn? One of the benefits of true luxury vacations is that exemplary service comes without any input from the guest. We have all had minor service issues at luxury properties from time to time. The difference between the Four Seasons and Seabourn is that the issues self-correct without input from myself at the Four Seasons. On the Sojourn, you need to complain to get noticed. Once we were known the service improved marginally, though probably at the expense of those who had yet to complain or make themselves known in another way. Did my complaint really make the staff want to do a better job for future passengers?

[Host Dan]

Why should Fluckey, or any other person for that matter, have to complain in order to get good service aboard the Sojourn? One of the benefits of true luxury vacations is that exemplary service comes without any input from the guest. We have all had minor service issues at luxury properties from time to time. The difference between the Four Seasons and Seabourn is that the issues self-correct without input from myself at the Four Seasons. On the Sojourn, you need to complain to get noticed. Once we were known the service improved marginally, though probably at the expense of those who had yet to complain or make themselves known in another way. Did my complaint really make the staff want to do a better job for future passengers?

I totally disagree with your post. I've had mis-steps at Four Seasons etc before that went un-noticed until I brought it to the attention of the staff. (Forgot turn - down service etc) To err is human. Thats just fact. BTW, I've been looking and looking for that "phantom" Amex platinum ranking you keep bringing up. Care to share where I can verify this list?

 

Host Dan

[Emperor Norton]

I totally disagree with your post. I've had mis-steps at Four Seasons etc before that went un-noticed until I brought it to the attention of the staff. (Forgot turn - down service etc) To err is human. Thats just fact. BTW, I've been looking and looking for that "phantom" Amex platinum ranking you keep bringing up. Care to share where I can verify this list?

 

Host Dan

 

Which Amex Platinum feature are you looking for:confused:

[Host Dan]

Which Amex Platinum feature are you looking for:confused:

I believe its a survey by Amex Platinum members on cruiselines etc..

 

Host Dan

[sananda]

I totally disagree with your post. I've had mis-steps at Four Seasons etc before that went un-noticed until I brought it to the attention of the staff. (Forgot turn - down service etc) To err is human. Thats just fact. BTW, I've been looking and looking for that "phantom" Amex platinum ranking you keep bringing up. Care to share where I can verify this list?

 

Host Dan

 

Yes minor service issues arise, but did they forget your turn down service several days in a row? Day after day on the Sojourn the staff was disinterested, disorganized and exceedingly slow.

 

I have mentioned a couple different AMEX things. The first is the annual travel survey. You can filter it so that it only includes the responses from the platinum card holders. Look at the cruise rankings. The other thing I mentioned was a summary review of the luxury lines. This came out in one of their magazines at the end of last summer.

[Host Dan]

Yes minor service issues arise, but did they forget your turn down service several days in a row? Day after day on the Sojourn the staff was disinterested, disorganized and exceedingly slow.

 

I have mentioned a couple different AMEX things. The first is the annual travel survey. You can filter it so that it only includes the responses from the platinum card holders. Look at the cruise rankings. The other thing I mentioned was a summary review of the luxury lines. This came out in one of their magazines at the end of last summer.

Please post a link. It would be greatly appreciated..

 

Host Dan

[sananda]

Please post a link. It would be greatly appreciated..

 

Host Dan

You can find the annual survey and 3rd party articles about the survey if you google AMEX travel survey. If you go to http://www.americanexpress.com/travel and login, you can find past year surveys as well.

 

The article I really liked appeared in AMEX publishing group's Black Ink magazine early last fall. It compared and contrasted the luxury and premium lines head to head. It was well written and very thorough. Eight separate professional reviews for each line, all from the Med over the summer. It gave me the courage to try Oceania, which was a smashing success and far exceeded my expectations even after the positive reviews. I also tried Paul Gauguin based on these reviews and found it to be exactly as described. The majority opinion of the Sojourn was also exactly as I experienced previously. Unfortunately, my PA tells me that no online link for this article exists. However, AMEX's Departures magazine had a watered down version of this article in Oct 2012. The Departures article didn't compare and contrast the lines and really only mentioned positive aspects from positive reviewers for every line. The Departures article reads more as a sales job than a critical comparison like the Black Ink article. The link for the Departures article is http://www.departures.com/luxury-vacations/cruising-the-mediterranean if you are interested. Departures is the AMEX platinum magazine so you may need that info to see the article. I get the print version at home, so I am really not sure.

[wripro]

I have had issues that were only corrected after speaking to the General Manager or someone else in charge at the following properties:

 

Ritz Paris

George V Paris

Dorchestor London

Peninsula New York

 

Anyone who expects perfection and refuses to say something when they are disappointed is doomed to be unhappy. Whenever there are human beings involved there is the possibility of mistakes. If I do nothing about them then shame on me and I have no right to continue complaining.

[sananda]

I have had issues that were only corrected after speaking to the General Manager or someone else in charge at the following properties:

 

Ritz Paris

George V Paris

Dorchestor London

Peninsula New York

 

Anyone who expects perfection and refuses to say something when they are disappointed is doomed to be unhappy. Whenever there are human beings involved there is the possibility of mistakes. If I do nothing about them then shame on me and I have no right to continue complaining.

 

I assume that you felt the nature of your problems were serious enough that if left uncorrected would have diminished the enjoyment of your stay. In all of my travel, 80+ cruises and hundreds of land vacations I have only felt compelled to complain twice (excluding the airlines). One of those times was the 2012 Sojourn trip. I am not bothered by the little things (no turn down service, failure to adequately fill water / wine glasses, etc.) and easily overlook and forget them. But if the same little problem is repeated day after day along with numerous other service issues I have no problem contacting staff. Furthermore, there were major service issues that were inexcusable. I actually think the managers / supervisors were part of the problem because they were not adequately training junior staff, nor were they sufficiently monitoring their performance and they were not scheduling sufficient staff at certain locales (like the MDR during breakfast). Nothing changed except they now knew who I was and would jump to attention when they saw me. Their was a tacit understanding that I would not be served by the inexperienced staff, and things were fine the final days, but I pity the poor passengers that were served by the staff that was clearly learning on the job.

[HappyFeet13]

I promised I wouldn't post again, but here I am. I just couldn't resist taking a look at what has been said since my last posting. This thread that I began, is intended to be about food and service on the Sojourn at this point in time. Not about Seabourn in general...not about Odyssey...not about the little sisters. Not about who has more class...and not about who is richer. I have always liked Seabourn, and still do. Their boarding process is brilliant, at least it was for me in Buenos Aires. We felt like the King and Queen of Siam as my wife and I were whisked past the THOUSANDS of people massing at the embarkation area waiting to get on one of the two large ships leaving port the same day. I'm told it took them 3-4 HOURS to get aboard. It took us just minutes, and we were soon settled in the Colonnade for a lovely lunch. Right on time, an announcement said our rooms were ready and we could occupy them at our convenience. The suites are beautiful and extremely well appointed. The cabin attendants are terrific. When I went to the bar to order a drink, the bartender knew my name! How, on earth, do they do that? The ship is beautiful. The shipmates are terrific...the rich ones and the poor ones. The entertainment and the lectures, for such a small ship, are terrific. All of this was equal to, or even better, than my 4 previous experiences on Sojourn. The problem was the quantity and quality of the food. I treat the Seabourn restaurant as I would a good 4-star restaurant in the states. I expect to pay a good bit (and we do, on Seabourn) and I expect prompt service and a variety of tasty offerings and portions that are moderate in size. I don't expect 6 or 7 shrimp if I order a cocktail, but I don't expect two, either. If I order a lobster tail as an entree (I don't care if you call it "Maine", "American", "Caribbean", or whatever) I expect what you would get if you ordered a 1 pound Maine lobster... a tail of +/- 5 to 6 ounces. No matter what you say about Seabourn "trying to avoid wasting food", or that "you can always order more", that is not as it should be. I would NEVER order another portion for myself just as the entres are being served to me and everyone else at my table. I would rather go hungry, and I think Seabourn depends on that in most cases. The real "Pros" (who tend to be staunch defenders of Seabourn, and feel they must belittle or make fun of me, even if they weren't on the same ship at the same time) have far more experience than I do. They know the ships officers because they do 40 and 50 day sailings and longer. They know the ship so well that they know every little secret, and they know to "order two lobsters when you order", or "order a triple order of shrimp cocktail", etc. They are well-fed and happy. But that isn't the way things should be for the average person who pays a great deal of money for a "Seabourn experience". (CommodoreDave...I'll look you up the next time I sail. I think you're a fair guy who knows the ropes. Thanks for all your posts)

[oregon50]

Hey Jim, how 'bout giving it a rest.

 

Beginning a thread with the hopes that SB staff in Seattle would be throwing you a life preserver does not allow you to control content/direction of the thread.

[Roxburgh]

I promised I wouldn't post again, but here I am. I just couldn't resist taking a look at what has been said since my last posting. This thread that I began, is intended to be about food and service on the Sojourn at this point in time. Not about Seabourn in general...not about Odyssey...not about the little sisters. Not about who has more class...and not about who is richer. I have always liked Seabourn, and still do. Their boarding process is brilliant, at least it was for me in Buenos Aires. We felt like the King and Queen of Siam as my wife and I were whisked past the THOUSANDS of people massing at the embarkation area waiting to get on one of the two large ships leaving port the same day. I'm told it took them 3-4 HOURS to get aboard. It took us just minutes, and we were soon settled in the Colonnade for a lovely lunch. Right on time, an announcement said our rooms were ready and we could occupy them at our convenience. The suites are beautiful and extremely well appointed. The cabin attendants are terrific. When I went to the bar to order a drink, the bartender knew my name! How, on earth, do they do that? The ship is beautiful. The shipmates are terrific...the rich ones and the poor ones. The entertainment and the lectures, for such a small ship, are terrific. All of this was equal to, or even better, than my 4 previous experiences on Sojourn. The problem was the quantity and quality of the food. I treat the Seabourn restaurant as I would a good 4-star restaurant in the states. I expect to pay a good bit (and we do, on Seabourn) and I expect prompt service and a variety of tasty offerings and portions that are moderate in size. I don't expect 6 or 7 shrimp if I order a cocktail, but I don't expect two, either. If I order a lobster tail as an entree (I don't care if you call it "Maine", "American", "Caribbean", or whatever) I expect what you would get if you ordered a 1 pound Maine lobster... a tail of +/- 5 to 6 ounces. No matter what you say about Seabourn "trying to avoid wasting food", or that "you can always order more", that is not as it should be. I would NEVER order another portion for myself just as the entres are being served to me and everyone else at my table. I would rather go hungry, and I think Seabourn depends on that in most cases. The real "Pros" (who tend to be staunch defenders of Seabourn, and feel they must belittle or make fun of me, even if they weren't on the same ship at the same time) have far more experience than I do. They know the ships officers because they do 40 and 50 day sailings and longer. They know the ship so well that they know every little secret, and they know to "order two lobsters when you order", or "order a triple order of shrimp cocktail", etc. They are well-fed and happy. But that isn't the way things should be for the average person who pays a great deal of money for a "Seabourn experience". (CommodoreDave...I'll look you up the next time I sail. I think you're a fair guy who knows the ropes. Thanks for all your posts)

 

Thing is ..... in your original post you said:

 

"I don't know if this is a Sojourn problem or a Seabourn problem But they'd better fix it fast. No one I know is planning to book Seabourn again. We are all talking Crystal, Azamara, Regent for our next cruises. Seabourn...you have a problem!"

 

So, as you were not really specific to Sojourn at that point, then it is only reasonable that other posters might recount their experience on other Seabourn ships if only to reassure other readers that it was not a Seabourn wide problem.

[HappyFeet13]

Roxburgh...you're absolutely right. Sorry. Oregon50, I have never liked anything you have had to say. Seems you ought to be able to make one post that isn't supercilious and pompous. Can't you try? You can't be THAT much of a jerk, can you? Now, where was I...Oh yeah, I had forgotten to mention food quality and service in my last post. Quality was mediocre with one or two spectacular exceptions. (The Chef's special dinner was to die for. It was hard to believe we were in the same restaurant. It was a fabulous meal and completely different than choices available on other nights). Re service: Restaurant staff poorly trained and supervised. Service spotty and generally slow in restaurant. Those "in the know" found and stayed with their favorite waiter. It shouldn't be necessary to do that. Colonnade too crowded. Too hard to get a table. On the little sisters the staff helps you to your table with your food. Not so on Sojourn. Long lines to get coffee at Seabourn Square because there was only 1 person behind counter even at busy times like mid-morning. All of the above are clear indications of a willing (and friendly and nice) but inadequate staff and cost-cutting that has gone a bit too far. Sorry Oregon50, you intimidated me off the board before. Not again.

[commodoredave]

I promised I wouldn't post again, but here I am. I just couldn't resist taking a look at what has been said since my last posting. This thread that I began, is intended to be about food and service on the Sojourn at this point in time. Not about Seabourn in general...not about Odyssey...not about the little sisters. Not about who has more class...and not about who is richer. I have always liked Seabourn, and still do. Their boarding process is brilliant, at least it was for me in Buenos Aires. We felt like the King and Queen of Siam as my wife and I were whisked past the THOUSANDS of people massing at the embarkation area waiting to get on one of the two large ships leaving port the same day. I'm told it took them 3-4 HOURS to get aboard. It took us just minutes, and we were soon settled in the Colonnade for a lovely lunch. Right on time, an announcement said our rooms were ready and we could occupy them at our convenience. The suites are beautiful and extremely well appointed. The cabin attendants are terrific. When I went to the bar to order a drink, the bartender knew my name! How, on earth, do they do that? The ship is beautiful. The shipmates are terrific...the rich ones and the poor ones. The entertainment and the lectures, for such a small ship, are terrific. All of this was equal to, or even better, than my 4 previous experiences on Sojourn. The problem was the quantity and quality of the food. I treat the Seabourn restaurant as I would a good 4-star restaurant in the states. I expect to pay a good bit (and we do, on Seabourn) and I expect prompt service and a variety of tasty offerings and portions that are moderate in size. I don't expect 6 or 7 shrimp if I order a cocktail, but I don't expect two, either. If I order a lobster tail as an entree (I don't care if you call it "Maine", "American", "Caribbean", or whatever) I expect what you would get if you ordered a 1 pound Maine lobster... a tail of +/- 5 to 6 ounces. No matter what you say about Seabourn "trying to avoid wasting food", or that "you can always order more", that is not as it should be. I would NEVER order another portion for myself just as the entres are being served to me and everyone else at my table. I would rather go hungry, and I think Seabourn depends on that in most cases. The real "Pros" (who tend to be staunch defenders of Seabourn, and feel they must belittle or make fun of me, even if they weren't on the same ship at the same time) have far more experience than I do. They know the ships officers because they do 40 and 50 day sailings and longer. They know the ship so well that they know every little secret, and they know to "order two lobsters when you order", or "order a triple order of shrimp cocktail", etc. They are well-fed and happy. But that isn't the way things should be for the average person who pays a great deal of money for a "Seabourn experience". (CommodoreDave...I'll look you up the next time I sail. I think you're a fair guy who knows the ropes. Thanks for all your posts)

 

Jim, it would be a pleasure to meet you. After 59 cruises and more than 500 days at sea, I have learned a few things about the industry over the years. Like you, I call it the way I see it. This upsets a few people, but we are all entitled to our own opinions and I am not going to stop giving mine because someone doesn't agree with me. So keep up the good work.

[Chairsin]

In the hopes that you posted you experience with the food and service to provide useful information for future cruisers on Seabourn rather to just vent might I add one final possible solution since clearly you did not find my previous ones to your liking.Why not do what my husband often does when we go to a new restaurant and are unfamiliar with the size of the portions

( however in his case he is usually concerned the portions might be too large). He simply says to the waiter,"I am thinking of ordering the shrimp cocktail -- can you tell me how many shrimp there are in an order?" In your case if the number is less than you desire you can simply respond," I really like shrimp cocktail would you please bring me a double order." Problem solved -- no waiting for a second portion and no going to bed hungry!

[SantaAna,CA]

Roxburgh...you're absolutely right. Sorry. Oregon50, I have never liked anything you have had to say. Seems you ought to be able to make one post that isn't supercilious and pompous. Can't you try? You can't be THAT much of a jerk, can you? Now, where was I...Oh yeah, I had forgotten to mention food quality and service in my last post. Quality was mediocre with one or two spectacular exceptions. (The Chef's special dinner was to die for. It was hard to believe we were in the same restaurant. It was a fabulous meal and completely different than choices available on other nights). Re service: Restaurant staff poorly trained and supervised. Service spotty and generally slow in restaurant. Those "in the know" found and stayed with their favorite waiter. It shouldn't be necessary to do that. Colonnade too crowded. Too hard to get a table. On the little sisters the staff helps you to your table with your food. Not so on Sojourn. Long lines to get coffee at Seabourn Square because there was only 1 person behind counter even at busy times like mid-morning. All of the above are clear indications of a willing (and friendly and nice) but inadequate staff and cost-cutting that has gone a bit too far. Sorry Oregon50, you intimidated me off the board before. Not again.

 

Happy Feet, I have been on CruiseCritic's boards for several years. This poster you are referring to is uniformly rude, everywhere I've seen him post. If you go to your "user CP", check on the "edit ignore list". You can put in his name and his posts will vanish......all you will see is his name, and a note he is on your ignore list. Just FYI. ;)

[HappyFeet13]

Great info on the "ignore" setting. Thanks. I just don't get the idea that a diner going to a great restaurant should have to say, "How many shrimp are in your shrimp cocktail that you are charging me $22 for?". "2? OK, I'll have 2 1/2 orders". Or, "I'm thinking about ordering the ravioli for my main course for $40.00 ...how many and what size are they?". "Two ravioli of one square inch each?" "OK, I'll have two orders". In the restaurant industry there are "appetizer portions" and "main course portions" that are generally standardized. I have been around for a long time and have dined at restaurants in many different countries, and so have you, I'm sure. When discussing the merits of a particular restaurant, I don't recall ever mentioning portion sizes as an issue. But, I have never before noticed such consistently, ridiculously, small portion sizes as I saw on this trip on the Sojourn. In many cases I didn't care because the food wasn't very good, anyway. (Sojourn's room service hamburgers are terrific!) As some other posters have written, in the US we have been in an economic slump for quite a while. TV is replete with ads for "one shared appetizer, two entries, and a shared dessert for only $25!"...that kind of thing. Many restaurants are reducing portions (and prices) to get by. Methinks that the world has changed and cost-cutting for survival has changed the way cruise ships operate. Like the QEII, the Concorde, and the Seabourn Pride of a decade ago, I guess I'm mourning the loss of "how it used to be" and probably never will be again.