Suggestion: Upscale Silversea Voyages

[NattilyAttired]

After posting my trip review from the Shadow a couple of weeks ago, I promised to post a separate thread with a suggestion for management. Unfortunately, work intervened and I never posted my idea. However, yesterday in another thread I saw that frequent poster UKCruiseJeff has almost exactly the same idea that I have, so I decided I had better post my idea in full. With credit to Jeff, here is what I thought as I disembarked from the Shadow:

 

Many SS loyalists on this board long for the days when champagne and fresh flowers were waiting in the staterooms upon arrival, caviar was readily available, children were absent and dress codes were enforced. So... why doesn't Silversea offer that again, for a price?

 

UKCruiseJeff suggested turning one of the smaller ships into a more club-like, first-class ship, with some of the aforementioned elements and a higher rate. While I would ultimately love to see a dedicated ship, I think that would be hard for management to commit to right off the bat. So, my suggestion is for SS to have 2-3 designated sailings called the "Eleganza Series" (or a similar theme) as test-runs of this new, higher standard of voyage. Passengers on these 10-11 day sailings would have to sign a contract stating they will abide by the rules of these special itineraries, specifically: no children under 18 allowed on board, and dress code will be fully enforced (formal attire on the 3 formal nights, and jacket required with tie optional on informal nights.)

 

On these cruises, a bottle of French Champagne (not Prosecco, and yes I realiize French Champagne is redundant) would be in each stateroom upon arrival, along with fresh flower arrangements. Caviar would be available on the three formal nights. The voyages would have upgraded entertainment (perhaps a great combo to dance to), or a great singer/pianist, or other noted entertainment that is better than usual SS fare. The included wines would be upgraded from their current level, although the Connoisseur wine list would still be available. Finally, the menu selection and quality of food for this cruise would be of as high a quality as possible.

 

For this, passengers would pay $1500-2000 per person more than a normal fare. At 300 passengers, that's an additional $450,000-$600,000 in revenue, which pays for the caviar, Champagne, flowers, food and entertainment. Obviously more money at full capacity.

 

If SS did well on these test cruises, they then might be able to think seriously about dedicating a ship to this style. I know there are loyalists on here who would join us in sailing on this kind of a cruise.

 

Would you?

 

Kort van Bronkhorst aka NattilyAttired

[Sweetpea711423]

I absolutely love this idea, and wholeheartedly agree with it. Sign me up!

[Emtbsam]

I fear that this approach would downgrade the remainder of the sailings. Besides who is to say which itineraries they might select for the "Eleganza" series. Suppose I had no interest in going on those itineraries? After all, a portion of the reason why we cruise is the destination.

 

Sorry - I'm not at all in favor of your suggestion.

[room010]

This would work well for those who feel the ship is the destination and for whom the itinerary is of secondary importance. Those for whom the itinerary is paramount might be less tempted if these voyages don't include their preferred ports of call or region. The cruise lines already have it within their power to enforce their own dress codes, say "no under 18s" please and provide fresh flowers and proper champaign. They just choose not to do so for commercial reasons and for expediency. Having said that, I'd certainly be interested in trying the "Eleganza" experience to see if the difference justifies the extra cost.

[Winner]

on Seabourn. A bottle of chilled Champagne and fresh flowers await you in your suite. Entertainment is generally low key with good combos and singers before and after dinner. With, at most, 24 hours notice, any special dinner you request will be served. You will only share your experience with 200 or so other guests because this refined personal service is best enjoyed on the "little sisters". Enjoy Pride (until March 2014), Legend or Spirit (until Spring 2015). You won't regret it. And it won't cost extra!

 

PS I am not, nor have I ever been, in the employ of any cruise line. I just love Seabourn.

[RachelG]

We would love it, as long as George can wear his cowboy hat and boots. He promises to take the hat off in the dining room.

[farbster]

Sounds wonderful until the airline loses your luggage and then what? Do you have to walk the plank?

 

The problem is that the world is changing. I remember (and I'm 43) when you would see a Broadway show and people wore coats and ties. Now they sell candy at intermission and people dress casually.

 

The reality is, companies are having a rough time and need the revenue and I suppose that people in general don't want to dress up to the nth degree. Why do you suppose that cruises are getting shorter in length and many now leave on Saturdays? Because people want to leave Friday from home and start on Saturday and do a one week and not miss more than necessary from work. If any business only chases old, rich, retired, rich people they'll never make it.

[Rally]

Sounds wonderful until the airline loses your luggage and then what? Do you have to walk the plank?

 

The problem is that the world is changing. I remember (and I'm 43) when you would see a Broadway show and people wore coats and ties. Now they sell candy at intermission and people dress casually.

 

The reality is, companies are having a rough time and need the revenue and I suppose that people in general don't want to dress up to the nth degree. Why do you suppose that cruises are getting shorter in length and many now leave on Saturdays? Because people want to leave Friday from home and start on Saturday and do a one week and not miss more than necessary from work. If any business only chases old, rich, retired, rich people they'll never make it.

 

Ask any country club how equity golf memberships are going (in the over $100,000 bracket) and they will tell you. The only industry that thrives on an aging clientel is the mortuary business. People are just dying to sign up.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Kort,

 

When I read in your opening post where you said that I had "almost exactly the same idea that I have" I had expected to find myself in the happy position of finding an idea of yours that I could almost certainly give the big thumbs up to, but I'm afraid I don't think it is a good idea at all.

 

My idea stemmed from the belief that in times of recession the wealthy's lifestyle are the least affected in society generally compared to those with more frugal means. Their capital or wealth may be effected but their buffer is bigger and little of their lifestyle changes. My approach also stems from the belief that had SS not commited itself to enormous cash-flow exposures with the expansion of the line during recession then it might have pursued a more sensible approach of leaving the pack behind , consolidating and moving even more certainly in an isolationist and unique "up market" postion where there is currently no (or very little) competition at all.

 

From a purely practical viewpoint succesful people aren't easilly hoodwinked. In the same way that you cannot temporarilly take the signs off of a Crowne Plaza and put up an Intercontinental sign for a week and then put the old signs back again, you cannot make a team cooking poor or average food for 48 weeks a year - provision in an entirely different way for 4 weeks - cook excellently and behave and think in a different way. You cannot simply put the cheap wine back into stock and take the better stuff out and think you have a different product. Ot at least you cannot convince customers that this is what you can do. They will be sceptical. You have essential proposed a tactic of introducing theme cruises for people who want to dress up and I have suggested a strategy that starts to move SS back to where they want and need to be. My idea was to make those first steps back "up market" in order to win back the confidence of the customers that SS spent so many years acquiring and are now losing.

 

Having read your idea a couple of times it seems to me to be simply an idea you hope will give you what obsesses you, and that is to secure what everyone else is wearing on the ship during formal nights. This obsession is evidenced both by your "handle" and the views you have expressed in your posts in several other threads. It does seem from what you have said to be an obsession.

 

The mast majority of people are not really too concerned about what everyone else is wearing, they are worrying more about what they themselves are wearing and ensuring that their tie is on straight or that the back of their dress isn't tucked into their knickers. You may have convinced yourself that most or all other existing and future customers of SS share this extreme obsession but they do not. In fact the younger affluent do not dress formally or semi-formally often or at all - and will not pay a lot of cash to enjoy an environment where they are told what or what not to wear when they eat. The future of SS depends on replacing people like you with them and to a large degree is to preempt and reflect these changes.

[Mr Luxury]

 

When I read in your opening post where you said that I had "almost exactly the same idea that I have" I had expected to find myself in the happy position of finding an idea of yours that I could almost certainly give the big thumbs up to, but I'm afraid I don't think it is a good idea at all.

 

 

Totally agree with you Jeff.

When I read Korts post I thought that he was giving us what he thought that he would like from Silversea and not most others.

Perhaps Kort would be better off sailing with Cunard in Queens Grill where caviar is served and the dress code is a little stiffer but has relaxed recently. Cruise lines can no longer enforce too many rules if they are to fill ships and stay afloat in difficult times.

Did you read the report recently that said luxury cruising futures are way down.

 

Seabourn is still offering Caviar and flowers and decent food but they realise that the dress code has changed in the real world.Formal is now optional and some do not take even a tie, opting for smart casual instead.

Cruise lines are still a little behind in changing their ways to attract the younger affluent types.

As you said before Jeff, you do not do formal wear for anyone.

I have to in the world that I have been put.:rolleyes:

[UKCruiseJeff]

Thanks. Yes- I've read the reports.

 

There will ALWAYS be a market for a small luxury cruise line that consistently delights customers (ie exceeds or at least meets the expectations for 95%+ of their customers) and doesn't dissapoint (doesn't meet what customers expected) and I'd combine that with a personalised direct concierge service (ie travel, hotels etc) for those customers that do not require the use of a TA but do want to have all related things looked after.

 

The industry could do well in becoming more transparent as perhaps the finance industry in the UK where fees rather than commissions are charged. The customers will exercise informed choice with respect to the value that TAs provide. They all are currently paying TAs whether they book dfirect or not - it's built into the model and fees aren't reduced currently for direct sales - it's just that customers prefer to think (delude) that someone else is paying.

 

This may return us to the position that cruise lines retain more and provide more and those that need TAs pay them. We don't ALL pay for them. That will both focus minds and improve cruise lines margins and the service and product that customers actuially receive. It will also improve TAs.

 

EDITED: The reason why the strict imposition of dress code is increasingly daft is because as expressed by a very affluent friend of mine when he said that the very people you need to attract are not going to agree to be a walk-on part to someone elses fantasy.

[wripro]

To get back on topic, for Silversea to institute these so called "eleganza Series" voyages they would be admitting that the rest of their voyages are not up to par. They'd be saying silversea today is no longer what it once was but for extra money we'll give you what we once did. The rest of you will have to tolerate what we offer today. Hardly a good marketing plan imo.

[ededmd]

To get back on topic, for Silversea to institute these so called "eleganza Series" voyages they would be admitting that the rest of their voyages are not up to par. They'd be saying silversea today is no longer what it once was but for extra money we'll give you what we once did. The rest of you will have to tolerate what we offer today. Hardly a good marketing plan imo.

 

Agreed completely.

Better to "buff" the existing product for all if needed than admit to a universal fallen standard.

[NattilyAttired]

It's hard to reply to all the comments, especially because they are not all serious, but I will try to answer a few of them.

 

First, Jeff, I agree that SS cannot only establish a higher level for 4 weeks out of a year (cook/provision better food and wine, etc). As I said, my ultimate goal was what you stated...dedicate an entire ship full-time to a higher level. I merely suggested this as a test to prove to management that there is a market that is not currently being served. Anyway, that was my rationale.

 

Second, I am not "obsessed" with dress code, although I do enjoy dressing up for dinner both on cruises and at home. I have worked in Silicon Valley my whole career; believe me when I say I know how to dress casually. What I am responding to are those on this board and those I have met on SS cruises (the far majority of whom have no idea what CruiseCritic is) who are disappointed in the degradation of the dress code, and the lack of champagne, caviar, etc. My suggestion for putting all these elements into a voyage, for a higher price, was partly because I cannot see gorging on caviar while wearing blue jeans. (For the record, I am not even a huge caviar or chanpagne fan.... but I would love to see an upscale cruise.)

 

All cruise lines have reduced amenities in order to cut costs and fill rooms. Each cruise line newsgroup tells a similar tale: things are not as good as they used to be. As a marketer, I know there is always a market for "the best" of something, and there are people who will pay for it. You can throw out all of my individual suggestions (dress code, caviar, champagne), but the principal idea remains the same: Silversea should consider offering a true luxury voyage to those who want and can pay for it. An untapped market is awaiting.

 

Kort

[UKCruiseJeff]

Kort, I agree the "end game is shared" I disagree with the route you suggested to get there - but it is an interesting debate. :)

 

To take your two main points risk and dress.

 

1. Risk

 

SS took the greatest risk when it pioneered a new "up market" with a brand-new luxury all-balcony ship followed by several more. It knows that business inside out. It is now competing with the "mass market". The idea of theme cruises is tinkering at the edges. Tinkering is almost certainly bound to lose and cause greater damage to an already compromised product. It will make things worst. It will be worst of all worlds. It will be a lot more cash but not a lot to show for it from the customers point of view.

 

What is needed is a good small ship refurb and the refinding and repioneering of the orginal core business. It needs a flex cruise calendar so that customers can design their own cruises ie when and where they join and when and where they leave. Spaces left a month before can be sold via Venetian.

 

2. Dress

 

You seem to only hear what you wish to hear and seem to me to ignore what is obvious. Obviously these people who you say you are listening to are going to make more noise than the far larger number who simply shrug because what you wear doesn't bother them - or the even greater number who fail to become customers and their voice is never heard. You are so energised by this you were rude to someone for simply asking us here where the limits are. In my view that sn't a balanced and generous spirited approach to others.

 

I'll ask the obvious question!

 

(a) How many of SS's exising customers do you think will not take any further cruises solely for the reason that formality was relaxed - if it were relaxed?

 

(b) How many people are not currently choosing to cruise with SS because the dress issue is turning them off?

 

Which number do you believe is the bigger number?

[wripro]

I don't think SS has ever had an all balcony ship. At this point only Regent has two of those.

[Travelcat2]

It seems that the trend is towards less formality on cruise ships. If this were not the case, why would Seabourn, Crystal and Regent relax their dress code? If Silversea is filling their ships with their current dress code, they should continue with the status quo. However, if they are losing business because of it, perhaps a change is in order.

 

In a way, this reminds me of the smoking policy (not trying to turn this into a smoking thread). Silversea, Crystal and Regent no longer will have smoking in cabins or balconies as of 1/1/2014. This leaves Seabourn as the only cruise line where one can smoke in these areas.

 

Perhaps passengers who wish to smoke will sail on Seabourn and those who wish to dress up can sail Silversea:confused: Actually, in terms of dress code, passengers on all luxury cruise lines are welcome to wear tuxedos and gowns every evening if this is their preference. The only issue, IMO, is respecting passengers who choose to adhere to Silversea's dress code but may do so by meeting the minimal dress code.

[Older Party]

If I may add another idea? I have always thought it would be fabulous to have ONE ship that catered to the young AND wealthy, where the evening's entertainment was geared toward clubbing ... big name guest DJ's, spectacular lights, sound, and projection on the decks, aerialists and dancers to add eye candy to the environment ... with excellent service ala the luxury lines such as Silversea, Regent, etc. Small, maybe 300 guests. And super expensive. These people don't think twice about spending 25K as a VIP in the ultra clubs in Las Vegas (Wynn's Encore beach club to name one of them), so why not capture that market?

[seabreezer]

What an interesting thread. Thought I would weigh in from a newbie's perspective. I have my first SS cruise scheduled in Sept. and am looking forward to relaxation, good service, decent food and great ports of call. That's it! It is just a cruise ship after all and my expectation is pretty low compared to a private yacht experience or a true world class, landmark hotel. If I wanted champagne, caviar and flowers I would order them. Doesn't seem like too much trouble. Even on The World you need to speak up for. As for cruise ship formal nights, it's just dinner not a grand ball, wedding or fundraiser. Just a dinner in the same venue as the night before, same food, same people...not a big deal and I am surprised that any cruise line is still clinging to that tired ritual. I do like that SS caters to a different demographic than many other cruise lines and I hope that they continue to be positioned a few notches above the standard. It's good to have a choice.

[UKCruiseJeff]

In working my way through the posts - there seems to be two sticking points.

 

Firstly, there does over this and over threads seem to produce varying opinions about what constitutes good food quality. This means that SS being what it is, will produce food for their opportunistic take of the lowest satisfied denominator, which currently excludes a lot of the target audience for the product of this thread.

 

Secondly there is a minority of people who not only like to dress up for dinner, but wish to impose their choice of dress on everyone else who wants to be on that cruise and on that ship, and even though that aren't even dining with them on the same table. In a strange and rather selfish view of both tolerance and respect of others they persevere with the notion hat those that do not fulfil their wishes are themselves disrespectful but their own lack of reasonable and realistic tolerance of those others on other tables are not. :confused:

 

Personally, when I am allowed out and eat at restaurants - as long as people are reasonably in sync with the establishment then I'm not in the slightest concerned about anyone else as long as they are well mannered and considerate ie reasonably smart, quiet, turn their mobile phones off, polite and respectful to the staff and don't scare the cattle. Even worst ..... I find that "expensively" turned out casually dressed people with a smile on their faces are a whole lot more attractive than people arriving lit up and glittering and illuminated like christmas trees accompanied by a rather sombre penguin. And I don't object to that as long a they don't get huffy with me and my elegantly turned out wifey when we turn up looking clean and normal but not like christmas trees and penguins.

 

That is my take of mutual respect. :)

[wripro]

Dress codes, like smoking and children onboard are just topics that take up a lot of space on CC. Most passengers who sail any or all of these luxury lines have never heard of CC, could care less what we all say and will continue to do what they want. And the cruise lines will cater to the demographic or change their rules commensurate with whatever results in the greatest revenue.

[SuzCruise]

Sounds wonderful until the airline loses your luggage and then what? Do you have to walk the plank?

 

The problem is that the world is changing. I remember (and I'm 43) when you would see a Broadway show and people wore coats and ties. Now they sell candy at intermission and people dress casually.

 

The reality is, companies are having a rough time and need the revenue and I suppose that people in general don't want to dress up to the nth degree. Why do you suppose that cruises are getting shorter in length and many now leave on Saturdays? Because people want to leave Friday from home and start on Saturday and do a one week and not miss more than necessary from work. If any business only chases old, rich, retired, rich people they'll never make it.

 

OT question here. Farbster, I am also 43, as is DH. While cruising we always have the discussion about what cruise lines need to do to market themselves to our demographic. We have yet to come up with the solution. Just for grins, and in case someone who matters is listening, what do you suggest? It is often said on these boards that younger people don't take luxury cruises because they can't afford the cost of the trip or the time off of work. Those are both incorrect. We take several weeks of vacation a year, with at least one trip of two weeks or more, and price is not an issue. All of our friends do the same, though none of them have any interest in cruising. None of them can, or will, put into words why not, just not interested. Time and money isn't an issue. Since some of them rent yachts, it isn't an issue with water. They just don't have any interest in being on a cruise. How do you think the cruise lines can market themselves to our age bracket?

[Older Party]

OT question here. Farbster, I am also 43, as is DH. While cruising we always have the discussion about what cruise lines need to do to market themselves to our demographic. We have yet to come up with the solution. Just for grins, and in case someone who matters is listening, what do you suggest? It is often said on these boards that younger people don't take luxury cruises because they can't afford the cost of the trip or the time off of work. Those are both incorrect. We take several weeks of vacation a year, with at least one trip of two weeks or more, and price is not an issue. All of our friends do the same, though none of them have any interest in cruising. None of them can, or will, put into words why not, just not interested. Time and money isn't an issue. Since some of them rent yachts, it isn't an issue with water. They just don't have any interest in being on a cruise. How do you think the cruise lines can market themselves to our age bracket?

 

I don't think any company that is successful today markets to an "age bracket", as age has become secondary to "Experiences". Create and market the experience first. This is what put Cirque du Soleil on the map. They created an experience that has wide appeal to many age groups.

 

People will flock to the experience they think most appealing or exciting to their own sensibilities. The cruise industry as a whole is still largely considered a place where old people take vacations. I am in my 60's and I can't think of anything more boring or droll than to listen to a lecturer on a cruise ship, yet marketing types will tell you this is what I want to see because my age group wants to see this. Young, monied people have little interest in cruising because it does not offer the experience they are looking for.

[UKCruiseJeff]

OT question here. Farbster, I am also 43, as is DH. While cruising we always have the discussion about what cruise lines need to do to market themselves to our demographic. We have yet to come up with the solution. Just for grins, and in case someone who matters is listening, what do you suggest? It is often said on these boards that younger people don't take luxury cruises because they can't afford the cost of the trip or the time off of work. Those are both incorrect. We take several weeks of vacation a year, with at least one trip of two weeks or more, and price is not an issue. All of our friends do the same, though none of them have any interest in cruising. None of them can, or will, put into words why not, just not interested. Time and money isn't an issue. Since some of them rent yachts, it isn't an issue with water. They just don't have any interest in being on a cruise. How do you think the cruise lines can market themselves to our age bracket?

 

Suz, you have obviously about it and discussed it .. so what conclusions have you reached?

[Travelcat2]

I don't think any company that is successful today markets to an "age bracket", as age has become secondary to "Experiences". Create and market the experience first. This is what put Cirque du Soleil on the map. They created an experience that has wide appeal to many age groups.

 

People will flock to the experience they think most appealing or exciting to their own sensibilities. The cruise industry as a whole is still largely considered a place where old people take vacations. I am in my 60's and I can't think of anything more boring or droll than to listen to a lecturer on a cruise ship, yet marketing types will tell you this is what I want to see because my age group wants to see this. Young, monied people have little interest in cruising because it does not offer the experience they are looking for.

 

Many "Young, monied people" simply rent yachts for themselves and friends. This way they have the experience they are looking for.