There is Something Very Wrong and I Don't Know What it Is........

[OVgirl]

Correct me if I'm wrong (please), but I don't think the concern is about the 'negative' comments.

 

It looks to me that the problem is with the marketing strategy of the company. They want to encourage repeat cruising by extolling the value of being a Mariner, but really give nothing for that loyalty.

 

So, it looks to me like they need to shake up their staffing in the marketing/sales department.

They have to give their repeat Mariners credit for being aware of the inequality in their sales tactics.

 

Or has the Mariner program worked so well for them, that they will not be profitable giving financial incentive to this high percentage of repeat cruisers?

 

"There is something wrong......"

 

[Cindy]

I'm more of a HAL outsider than insider, but I do know what you mean and I'll take a stab at it.

Like you, Sail, I've been a CC member for more than a decade. When I discovered Cruise Critic in 2000, it was a very small community that was part of AoL. I credit Cruise Critic with helping to make my first cruise awesome and make me a cruise addict! It also almost sent me into bankruptcy, because I paid for internet by the minute and I was on for HOURS!:rolleyes:

As the community has grown, members (and this isn't a HAL phenomenon, it's all of Cruise Critic) have grown increasingly more territorial in defense of their chosen line, and considerably less tolerant and understanding when things go wrong on ships. Unfortunately that means that when people have legitimate complaints or concerns they get swept up in accusations of whining and exaggeration.

As for HAL specifically, there does seem to be more current displeasure than on other boards. My take -- again as a relative outsider is this...for many, many years HAL has provided an outstanding product and level of service to devoted cruisers. Is HAL for everybody? No, but for seasoned and demanding travelers the HAL product was perfect, so Holland America had found their niche and they were giving the customers what they wanted and expected. Now, for whatever reason, HAL is implementing some rather drastic changes, and they seem to be changing many things at once. Combine the changes with some pretty severe maintenance/mechanical problems on certain ships, and you have thread after thread of unhappy people. The unhappy threads are noticeably more prevalent here than they are on a board like Royal Caribbean's or Carnival's because there are fewer posters and fewer ships to discuss.

It does seem to me that HAL is trying to be more like everybody else, and that's worrisome. I think every cruise line needs to have some areas where they stand apart from the competition. I hate to see Holland America apparently doing away with the things that made them unique in the market. It makes me wonder what's next. Perhaps they're just trying to do the things they feel will allow them to remain competitive, and we won't see any more changes for a while...time will tell.

[dfish]

I have been actively involved on CC for over 10 years as evidenced in my profile.

 

I love CC and call it my 'hobby'. For me, who loves cruising HAL ships, talking about them here on CC is the next best thing to being aboard.

 

I have never been so depressed and saddened as I am lately when I come here. Never in all these years have I read of so many unhappy HAL cruisers for so many varied reasons.

 

The poor way HAL announced the Wine Policy change was very upsetting to almost everyone here. On top of which, the new policy probably could use some 'tweaking'.

 

Mariners are discovering the more loyal they have been, the higher prices they are being charged.

 

Frequent loyal cruisers have discovered they are rarely offered upsells and upgrades in comparison to new cruisers being offered all sorts of delightful surprises.

 

Another cruiser has always purchased from HAL liquor by the bottle for her cabin enjoyment and now has to buy a full case.

 

Other people learned of a new Explore4 program and then learned the price of their cruise would have to go up in order for them to get small benefit..

 

We have to call and beg, plead, cajole to get our hands on a Cruise Atlas so we can learn what HAL is selling. Why do we have to jump through hoops to get a brochure we can enjoy reading to pick our next cruises? :confused:

 

I could go on but you get the point.

 

What in the world is going on with HAL and HAL's cruisers?

Surely it has to be me but I have never read of so much displeasure about something that is supposed to be fun and happy and exciting and relaxing and a treat.........

 

HAL may have some Mariners as loyal as DH and me but they have NO ONE MORE loyal than DH and me. We love the 'dam' ships, we love our HAL cruises and most of all we love HAL's Officers/crew/staffs. But I am not loving some of the things I've been reading here in recent weeks. We are HAL's best Mariners.... There are some as good but none better.

 

Where did all the fun go? :confused:

 

I think sometimes when one particular item causes a great disappointment, such as the way the change in wine policy was handled, people start looking for other things they don't like as well. It reminds me of the tendency to say, "And another thing...." Much is born of frustration in not having control or input into the situation.

 

Another aspect is that people tend to be resistant to change, even when it could be good. We are leaving the familiar and entering uncharted waters. You know how people much prefer the devil they know rather than the one they don't.

 

Remember the huge upset when Anytime Dining was introduced? It is now an accepted practice. Many people tried it and found they liked it. For those who don't, there is still traditional dining. In the end, I think it was a good thing because it gave people more choice, but you wouldn't have thought so when the word first came down. We have learned that the fact someone else may prefer a dining option different from our own does not diminish our enjoyment of the cruise.

 

Trays in the Lido was another hot topic for a while.

 

In the end, most of us adjust and we enjoy our cruises. I tend to follow the advice that is often given here: I can make or break my upcoming cruise with the attitude I bring on board with me.

 

Debbie

[arewethereyet]

I want to respond to this and I'm a bit unsure how. I frequent many forums and I see a lot of disenchantment everywhere. I think it may resonate a little more for single cruiseline people because so many of the complaints they see come from people they see as their friends.

 

I've really never been a fan of cruise line loyalty. Cruise lines are a business and I expect them to earn my business every time I sail. Knowing that I always have several other cruise lines to choose from really makes me far more committed to my choice than if I just went with the default.

 

The grass always looks greener on the other side. I think anybody who is not happy with HAL should give somebody else a try. It's a business, not a marriage. I think it's hard to have a bad cruise and the opportunity to say I chose this and here's why is very satisfying.

Roy

Well said. I feel the same way.

[HamOp]

My take on all of this is that most of the unhappy faces are behind a keyboard and not on a HAL ship.

 

I'm willing to bet that if you or I were on a HAL cruise today the vast majority of the faces we see would have giant smiles on them.

 

I will still sail HAL and believe me, I will be happy and have a great time.:)

 

Oh, and one more thing, I don't think you'll find Holland ships sailing anything but full for the foreseeable future.

[solocanadian]

I was just going to suggest that. Sail, be our ambassador, please? If they don't listen to you, they won't listen to anyone!

 

Judy, I tend to agree with startwin and innlady.:) However we HAL cruisers should not really expect someone else to do our complaining. That being said, I agree with you 100%. Gail

[SilvertoGold]

My take on all of this is that most of the unhappy faces are behind a keyboard and not on a HAL ship.

 

I'm willing to bet that if you or I were on a HAL cruise today the vast majority of the faces we see would have giant smiles on them.

 

I will still sail HAL and believe me, I will be happy and have a great time.:)

 

Oh, and one more thing, I don't think you'll find Holland ships sailing anything but full for the foreseeable future.

 

Bingo! We agree with all your points.

 

We've been cruising for 12 years and are now well above the 5 star level.

 

For the past 4 years or so we have found changes, some things better, somethings worse. Things do change and we are OK with that.

 

Pricing, which happens to be important to us because it dictates how many cruises we will take a year, is the best since we started cruising. That is a big plus, and the food, service and perks are super.

 

 

Everyone really needs to chill out. You can't chnage HAL much, not in a significant way, so weigh up the good and bad and choose your cruiseline.

[iancal]

I suspect that there are cruisers who are loyal to many lines that are now very motivated to compare products-service, price, quality, ships, reward plans-well everything.

 

Why, because many cruise lines have reduced services, etc. in order to maintain price. HAL is no different.

 

If we feel that we are no longer getting the same value from a product or from a supplier we start shopping. And then we start comparing. And after that we become critical of some of the far fetched marketing claims.

 

As anOP said, HAL is not our friend. They are a supplier and we compare them to the other supplier offerings in the marketplace. We apply the same standards to them as we do to other cruise lines. Same for Princess, Celebrity, whatever. So it may be that people are not becoming harsh. Rather, the decline in service may have taken the positive emotion out of their cruising decision when selecting a ship/cruise line and made them more open to other experiences and less tolerant of bad service or poor cabin conditions.

[CoronaCRZR]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rafinmd

I want to respond to this and I'm a bit unsure how. I frequent many forums and I see a lot of disenchantment everywhere. I think it may resonate a little more for single cruiseline people because so many of the complaints they see come from people they see as their friends.

 

I've really never been a fan of cruise line loyalty. Cruise lines are a business and I expect them to earn my business every time I sail. Knowing that I always have several other cruise lines to choose from really makes me far more committed to my choice than if I just went with the default.

 

The grass always looks greener on the other side. I think anybody who is not happy with HAL should give somebody else a try. It's a business, not a marriage. I think it's hard to have a bad cruise and the opportunity to say I chose this and here's why is very satisfying.

 

Roy

 

I also completely agree with this. Sticking with just one line will give one tunnel vision.

We are all very lucky to have so many different options to choose from, and if you do not like one, just hop on over to the one with a different theme, you may actually enjoy it.

 

Ted

[magandab]

It was not my intent to be negative (other than being negative about the negativity) or to call names. However this thread has gone the way of so many lately.

 

I agree with Sail, as I usually do, and admire her gift for discussing difficult topics in a non-confrontational manner. She is gracious at all times. I intend to enjoy my cruise, taking the not-so-good along with the great. I also intend to limit my time here as I find it difficult not to respond in kind to some posters.

 

Have a good cruise, wherever you sail.

[Sea-travelers]

HAL wants rid of we old, loyal timers!!

 

Here we go again! This just encourages more negative postings and I have never heard of a company wanting to get rid of customers. This is such a ridiculous comment and where is your proof?

 

I would have to agree with all the postings on this thread. Something good in each posting accept this one.

 

The Hal Forum has become so negative for me that it was taking away all the fun of planning for my next cruise. Then several days ago, might have been a week, someone posted a thread called imagine and it brought back all the good feelings I have about HAL and why I cruise. Since then I have ignored all the negative postings and look for the positive ones that share information about the cruises. I have considered just deleting CC from my favorites.

 

Lets stay positive even if it is something you no longer like about HAL. Put it in a constructive way that all us may learn something from.

 

No disrespect intended towards you Krazy Kruizers. You are entitled to your opinion but if you are going to make such a statement then back it up with real facts.

[kakalina]

Judy and Sapper 1 : I couldn't agree with you more.

[1160451]

Hello, we have only cruised once with HAL.

I do spend a lot of time on CC.

We found HAL not quite to our expectations, but apart from the lack of adherence to the dress code found nothing much to complain about.

I think the problem,all of you loyal regular CC posters, is that it appears HAL used to be 9/10 now it's maybe 7/10, so you quite correctly post as such on CC.

We have friends who never read CC and always cruise with HAL and seem blissfully content.

I think we all often influence each other towards negativity rather than positivity.

Happy cruising.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

 

I think there is a lot of truth behind some complaints (JMHO). I am reserving my judgment, and looking forward to going on my B-day cruise in November with a happy attitude. When it is all over, I will have a 2nd cruise on HAL under my belt and I can better judge whether or not all the negativity is exaggerated or if there are some true issues with the line. Only then will I be able to decide if I want to spend my vacation $$ with HAL in the future......or go do something else. I must say in HAL's defense, our Alaska cruise/tour in 2011 was stellar, we just loved it, and I would love to go back!

[Typhoon1]

Things have never been quite the same since the Carnivalization began.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Here we go again! This just encourages more negative postings and I have never heard of a company wanting to get rid of customers. This is such a ridiculous comment and where is your proof?

 

I would have to agree with all the postings on this thread. Something good in each posting accept this one.

 

The Hal Forum has become so negative for me that it was taking away all the fun of planning for my next cruise. Then several days ago, might have been a week, someone posted a thread called imagine and it brought back all the good feelings I have about HAL and why I cruise. Since then I have ignored all the negative postings and look for the positive ones that share information about the cruises. I have considered just deleting CC from my favorites.

 

Lets stay positive even if it is something you no longer like about HAL. Put it in a constructive way that all us may learn something from.

 

No disrespect intended towards you Krazy Kruizers. You are entitled to your opinion but if you are going to make such a statement then back it up with real facts.

 

HAL doesn't even treat all of us equally on the ships.

I have mentioned this incident a few times -- and it is only one of many incidents we have experienced recently on HAL.

ALL suite guests are suppose to be invited to the suite lunch. At the end of the first segment of a Collectors Cruise, everyone got a comment card and we mentioned that we were disappointed that there wasn't a suite lunch. When we returned from going through immigration, our concierge told us that indeed there had been a suite lunch. So we inquired as to why we were not invited. Got all kinds of song and dance on the ship. Now to explain a little more, for each suite function, the concierges have a check list and as each person turns in the RSVP card, they mark off whether or not you are going to attend. No one bother to check to see if our name was marked as attending or not attending. The one concierge had left at the end of the first segment and the second concierge had no idea what happened.

Several other incidents happened on that cruise as well. And when we got home we wrote a letter to the president. That was the first part of December 2011. After we got home from a cruise in March 2012, a letter arrived from HAL.

It basically was a joke -- they hemmed-hawed around all our issues and basically said that they felt we would be better off sailing on another cruise line. That letter prompted us to cancel several cruises.

We like HAL -- over 800 days -- and sadly a letter like that has left a bitter taste in our mouths.

I could go on and on ..........

[sail7seas]

Things have never been quite the same since the Carnivalization began.

 

 

You do know Carnival Corp. acquired HAL in 1989, right?

 

We didn't even start sailing HAL until 1991 (I think) so we've always sailed HAL as a subsidiary of Carnival Corporation.

 

Were you sailing them before that time?

 

[sppunk]

Our last two HAL cruises were misfires, due to a) ship managers complete lack of care and follow-up and b) idiotic me-first, demanding pax. It is a combo that can sink a company.

 

If it wasn't a lack of care, it is inept training at customer relations and that's even worse. When we call Seattle, you'll get five completely different answers on five calls.

 

HAL is in transition, and frankly IMO failing pretty miserable during the period. Changes are needed in the training levels.

 

Our only HAL cruise booed is next month on Eurodam. It very well might be our last.

[Typhoon1]

You do know Carnival Corp. acquired HAL in 1989, right?

 

You are correct, Sail.

 

Ever since that time, HAL has gradually continued its downward spiral. Things slowly changed for the worse year after year.

 

If you get it figured out, be sure to let us know.

[iancal]

HAL will have a gradual change over in demographics. And with this comes a change in customers priorities, want, needs, etc.

 

So, one OP was very upset that they were not invited to a 'suite' luncheon. We would not be offended and it would be at the absolute bottom of the list for things to complain to HAL executives. That may upset some people. We would be very upset if we had a malfunction HVAC or plumbing system or if the soft goods were well past their replacement date.

 

Just an example of two HAL customers with different wants and expectations.

[sansterre]

Things have never been quite the same since the Carnivalization began.

That is certainly true.

However, I think the tone here is basically a sign of the times we are in. There is much negativity most everywhere these days when people are not getting raises, health insurance as in the past, hours cut, college graduate children moving home, etc. etc. etc.

I will continue to always make the best of a given situation and accept those things I cannot change:)

[NMLady]

I used to be the first to call it whining, dismiss it and run away from it but I'm not sure anymore.

Are they whining or are they right?

 

It is both. Some is whining negativity but most of the recent posts have legitimate complaints.

[pris993]

I don't wish to be negative, that being said, I see the same level of negative comments on several boards I regularly read on CC (Princess, HAL, Cunard, Celebrity, NCL) so this is not unique to HAL. We are elite on several lines, 2 star on HAL. I see the negativity a sign of the times.

 

Sign of the times, our world in general is not that positive... not a lot of positive news out there. Of course travel and cruising is an escape from the day to day world so maybe that make the negativity here more disappointing.

 

Bottom line I don't see HAL any different that may other lines. I am looking forward to a TA on the Nieuw Amsterdam next Spring... hope like many HAL adjusts its wine policy so I can buy some wine in ports along the way. But if they don't it will not be the end of the world for me.

[monina01]

I guess because we are relative new to cruising, we don't have that feeling that many of you describe. I have been part of these boards for a long time but we did our first cruise last year, and earlier this year our second. Both on HAL and that's it.

 

And as we have no reference, we do not see what you guys apparantly see. We just love the whole cruising experience and we love HAL.

 

I did come very close to cancelling our Veendam cruise, due to what I read on CC. Veendam was literally trashed in all kinds of reviews and topics and the whole "Veendam needs to be junked" feeling got me very upset. I went ahead with the cruise and am glad that I did.

 

Had I not read these boards, I would never have known Veendam had problems. It was the best vacation ever and I was a bit shocked at myself that I almost cancelled just because of what I was reading here. From that experience I learned to take things here with a grain of salt. There is truth but there are also overreactions and sometimes this group-frenzy thing going on ( I don't think I describe that well but I don't know how better to put into words).

 

I really am sorry for those who feel there is something wrong. Alot of you guys seem like great people, there are many I would love to cruise with some time, and I mostly enjoy reading the posts. Even those sarcastic posts from some of the "grumps", that sort of remind me of the two guys on the muppet show up on the balcony. They sort of grow on you :D

 

So.....not sure what to say but I hope this feeling of "something" wrong lets up and everybody finds the joy and adventure in cruising again. As well as the fun in participating on these boards.

[Sea-travelers]

HAL doesn't even treat all of us equally on the ships.

 

I have mentioned this incident a few times -- and it is only one of many incidents we have experienced recently on HAL.

 

ALL suite guests are suppose to be invited to the suite lunch. At the end of the first segment of a Collectors Cruise, everyone got a comment card and we mentioned that we were disappointed that there wasn't a suite lunch. When we returned from going through immigration, our concierge told us that indeed there had been a suite lunch. So we inquired as to why we were not invited. Got all kinds of song and dance on the ship. Now to explain a little more, for each suite function, the concierges have a check list and as each person turns in the RSVP card, they mark off whether or not you are going to attend. No one bother to check to see if our name was marked as attending or not attending. The one concierge had left at the end of the first segment and the second concierge had no idea what happened.

 

Several other incidents happened on that cruise as well. And when we got home we wrote a letter to the president. That was the first part of December 2011. After we got home from a cruise in March 2012, a letter arrived from HAL.

 

It basically was a joke -- they hemmed-hawed around all our issues and basically said that they felt we would be better off sailing on another cruise line. That letter prompted us to cancel several cruises.

 

We like HAL -- over 800 days -- and sadly a letter like that has left a bitter taste in our mouths.

 

I could go on and on ..........

 

I agree with you that these issues are disappointing and should be addressed by HAL but I do not see these as actual facts that HAL is trying to get rid of people. You did the right thing by sending a letter to HAL. I am sorry you did not get good results from them.