Png

[icat2000]

Just saw this article on the Hun. Pretty shocking. I wonder what that will mean for tourism, especially with PO Australia and Princess next year doing cruises up to PNG

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/aussie-trekkers-attacked-in-png-guides-hacked-to-death/story-fni0xqrb-1226716581010

[rkmw]

Just saw this article on the Hun. Pretty shocking. I wonder what that will mean for tourism, especially with PO Australia and Princess next year doing cruises up to PNG

 

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/national/aussie-trekkers-attacked-in-png-guides-hacked-to-death/story-fni0xqrb-1226716581010

 

if its that bad the cruise lines wont stop there, they will go some where else

[icat2000]

They say its an isolated incident. Well, playing it down as one.

 

However, this paragraph is interesting.

 

"I suspect (the violence) was probably between the tribes themselves. They were probably arguing over whether they should have taken turns being carriers for the trekkers," he said.

 

"The road that they were walking on is an old wartime track. It’s very mountainous and goes through several villages and I think they (the locals) were arguing that they should have taken turns in assisting the trekkers across the mountain as porters."

 

You wouldn't want similar to happen with the cruiselines using only some people and not the others. Same with private tours.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

I believe it also happened at a very isolated and remote spot.

I dint think for one moment the shore tours from a cruise ship ,

whether ship or private ,will go any near places like that.

However it is a firm reminder to take care when touring ashore, anywhere in the world.

 

 

[SeagoingMom]

What I find repulsive about the article is the posed photo of what one would assume is the (or a) band of cold-blooded killers armed with machetes. Who takes a picture like that? "Hey guys, you who hacked two innocent people to death -- pull up your bandannas to cover your faces, and then you can all get in the picture! Here, some of you climb up in that tree -- you'll look more primitive and fierce, plus it'll make the composition better."

[Kiwi Kruzer]

What I find repulsive about the article is the posed photo of what one would assume is the (or a) band of cold-blooded killers armed with machetes. Who takes a picture like that? "Hey guys, you who hacked two innocent people to death -- pull up your bandannas to cover your faces, and then you can all get in the picture! Here, some of you climb up in that tree -- you'll look more primitive and fierce, plus it'll make the composition better."

 

They are primitive and fierce.

It is believed there are still some areas in the Interior Highlands where the locals have never seen a white skinned man. It was not that long ago they were cannibals.

Many people from Au and NZ have refused to go and live and work in PNG as it is too dangerous and primitive.

 

[icat2000]

What I find repulsive about the article is the posed photo of what one would assume is the (or a) band of cold-blooded killers armed with machetes. Who takes a picture like that? "Hey guys, you who hacked two innocent people to death -- pull up your bandannas to cover your faces, and then you can all get in the picture! Here, some of you climb up in that tree -- you'll look more primitive and fierce, plus it'll make the composition better."

 

Or could be just a group of people dressed up to look like bandits to get a photo for the paper.

[Aus Traveller]

I believe it also happened at a very isolated and remote spot.

I dint think for one moment the shore tours from a cruise ship ,

whether ship or private ,will go any near places like that.

However it is a firm reminder to take care when touring ashore, anywhere in the world.

 

The Highlands have always been more "risky" than the areas more tourists go. Anyone going to PNG has to take care, particularly if they are on independent tours. I agree with Bob's comment, that if it is too risky, the cruiselines will stop going there, which would be a pity.

 

Years ago when we were in Rabaul on a cruiseship we hired a care. The owner told us that if we accidently injured a local, under no circumstances should be stop. We had to continue and return to Rabaul where we would report it to the police. If we stopped, the villagers could kill us. At a cross-roads well out of Rabual, a group of young local men spread across the road to prevent us driving on. My husband who was driving said (through clenched teeth) "lock the doors and everyone keep smiling", as he gradually edged the car forward. One of the men was virtually sitting on the bonnet of the car, but he kept inching forward until the man moved away. We all kept smiling and waved as we drove off. Naturally the first question from the back seat was "Do we have to go back this way?" Luckily we didn't and were able to continue around the other side of the volcano and back to town.

[Aus Traveller]

What I find repulsive about the article is the posed photo of what one would assume is the (or a) band of cold-blooded killers armed with machetes. Who takes a picture like that? "Hey guys, you who hacked two innocent people to death -- pull up your bandannas to cover your faces, and then you can all get in the picture! Here, some of you climb up in that tree -- you'll look more primitive and fierce, plus it'll make the composition better."

It is probably a file photo. I don't see it as replusive, just what goes on in PNG. I see you are not from this part of the world so you may not be so familiar with what happens there. For several decades, there has been a major problem with law and order with groups young men called "rascals".

[Sandielle]

It was on the news today that they believe it was a robbery. The cruises will not be going anywhere near those areas.

[SeagoingMom]

It is probably a file photo. I don't see it as replusive, just what goes on in PNG. I see you are not from this part of the world so you may not be so familiar with what happens there. For several decades, there has been a major problem with law and order with groups young men called "rascals".

True, I am not from that part of the world. But I am from a part of the world where cold-blooded murderers are not called merely "rascals."

 

Some of the posts make it sound like this is a neighborhood boys' club out on a lark.

[fanoforion]

True, I am not from that part of the world. But I am from a part of the world where cold-blooded murderers are not called merely "rascals."

 

Some of the posts make it sound like this is a neighborhood boys' club out on a lark.

 

 

Hi there, I am sorry that you think that the Rascals are a boys club..

you could not be further from the truth.

Rascals , the P.N.G term for gang members.

they are unsophisticated, violent...who murder, rob, assault etc.

 

I was in Port Moresby in the 1960's, and the Rascals were there even back then..

 

please look up the meaning of Raskols in Wikipedia..

 

kind regards, Lorraine:):)

[rugbypopsie]

People must be aware that NG was only settled by whites in the last century It is a wonderful magical place, I lived and worked in Lae in the early 1970's.

 

Wau where this incident took place is a few hours from Lae and inland..well away from where the cruises will be going. Just for the record many tourists have been killed and injured in the centre of Sydney.

 

I agree this is probably a local dispute over revenue from tourists.

 

Sue

[icat2000]

 

I agree this is probably a local dispute over revenue from tourists.

 

Sue

I think part of the problem is these trekking companies are making a lot of money with the Kodoka Track treks and other treks and not much is going back into the local community and there is some anger about it.

[Kiwi Kruzer]

The PNG Govt have said they are going to introduce Tourist Police to protect visitors .

They have also said they will track down the offenders and put them to death.

 

 

 

[Aus Traveller]

True, I am not from that part of the world. But I am from a part of the world where cold-blooded murderers are not called merely "rascals."

 

Some of the posts make it sound like this is a neighborhood boys' club out on a lark.

With respect, you misunderstand the term "rascals".:) Don't take it in its literal English meaning. For anyone going to PNG, the term "rascal" makes their blood run cold. These young men are bloodthirsty rapists and murderers.

 

The news report on the ABC commented that the cause of the attack could have been a dispute between two villages and that the attackers were upset they weren't given the job of carrying the tour company's baggage through their territory. There have always been murderous attacks between tribes, particularly in the Highlands.

[rugbypopsie]

Its hard to explain in just a few words...there are more than 700 different dialects in PNG each tribe are incredibly territorial and each valley has its own tribe. Armed combat between tribes is common even today over local disputes. I have no idea how tourist police would operate effectively. The "wontok" literally "one talk" cultural system is deeply entrenched and loyalty to your tribe is more important than loyalty to any organisation. There is no trust between people from different villages. Law and order worked best when the police were led by Australians who were seen as impartial in disputes. Wau is part of the gold mining area and whilst the mines have provided schooling in some of these areas there is little work and so expectations of being able to move from subsistence life to a life based on money are often not realised.

Anything that a person has is supposed to be based on sharing with the village..obviously this does not translate well in a monetary based society. Really they are trapped between the modern and the ancient world. I am still disappointed that I had to pull out of the inaugural trip to PNG. I loved living there and when you understand the culture the people are lovely.

 

Sue

[icat2000]

Its hard to explain in just a few words...there are more than 700 different dialects in PNG each tribe are incredibly territorial and each valley has its own tribe. Armed combat between tribes is common even today over local disputes. I have no idea how tourist police would operate effectively. The "wontok" literally "one talk" cultural system is deeply entrenched and loyalty to your tribe is more important than loyalty to any organisation. There is no trust between people from different villages. Law and order worked best when the police were led by Australians who were seen as impartial in disputes. Wau is part of the gold mining area and whilst the mines have provided schooling in some of these areas there is little work and so expectations of being able to move from subsistence life to a life based on money are often not realised.

Anything that a person has is supposed to be based on sharing with the village..obviously this does not translate well in a monetary based society. Really they are trapped between the modern and the ancient world. I am still disappointed that I had to pull out of the inaugural trip to PNG. I loved living there and when you understand the culture the people are lovely.

 

Sue

 

Sue - thanks for your insightful comments into PNG. Shame you had to pull out of the first PO trip to PNG.

[Antonintassie]

Nothing new for PNG really I an ex army and now run a security company and freely admit having been to Port Moresby it is one place I will happily avoid in the future.

The regional areas are generally less unsafe but I would still be very aware.

[MicCanberra]

Its hard to explain in just a few words...there are more than 700 different dialects in PNG each tribe are incredibly territorial and each valley has its own tribe. Armed combat between tribes is common even today over local disputes. I have no idea how tourist police would operate effectively. The "wontok" literally "one talk" cultural system is deeply entrenched and loyalty to your tribe is more important than loyalty to any organisation. There is no trust between people from different villages. Law and order worked best when the police were led by Australians who were seen as impartial in disputes. Wau is part of the gold mining area and whilst the mines have provided schooling in some of these areas there is little work and so expectations of being able to move from subsistence life to a life based on money are often not realised.

Anything that a person has is supposed to be based on sharing with the village..obviously this does not translate well in a monetary based society. Really they are trapped between the modern and the ancient world. I am still disappointed that I had to pull out of the inaugural trip to PNG. I loved living there and when you understand the culture the people are lovely.

 

Sue

A terrible situation and luckily, the tourists escaped relatively unscathed (although traumatised).

Thank you for your explaination Sue.

PNG tribes are like any indigenous peoples, there are a miriad of complexities in their societies that are mainly kept secret and are kept aside from the adopted mainstream western culture. Even when they surface, it is too difficult to understand why it may happen in our society.:D

[NSWP]

Having been to PNG a couple of times, albeit it only to Rabaul, one wonders where the billions of dollars in (Australian) foreign aid to PNG has gone. I have my own theories on that.

[MicCanberra]

Having been to PNG a couple of times, albeit it only to Rabaul, one wonders where the billions of dollars in (Australian) foreign aid to PNG has gone. I have my own theories on that.

 

Yes, there has been a lot of help for some but a lot of waste as well.:D

[rugbypopsie]

Like I said impossible to impose western values into a totally different culture...what we see as corruption and vote buying is just another form of the "wontok" system. Lots of money wasted..

 

Sue

[SeagoingMom]

Hi there, I am sorry that you think that the Rascals are a boys club..

you could not be further from the truth.

Rascals , the P.N.G term for gang members.

they are unsophisticated, violent...who murder, rob, assault etc.

 

I was in Port Moresby in the 1960's, and the Rascals were there even back then..

 

please look up the meaning of Raskols in Wikipedia..

 

kind regards, Lorraine:):)

 

Clearly I did not, do not, and never could think the "rascals" -- now that I know this is a specific nomenclature -- are a boys' club.

 

As I first posted, the photo in the referenced article, with the gang posing in a composed and "artistic" manner (as if on formal night on a cruise?), proudly brandishing their murder weapons, instead of face down on the ground with police officers weapons trained at their heads, was the first (however wrong) impression I had that this issue was not being taken too seriously. It does not matter to me whether this is a photo of the actual perpetrators of the crime, or a group of men dressed in costume -- either is disgusting.

 

Reading the article and posts which emphasized the idea that this was a common occurrence in this area, that it could "just as easily have happened in Sydney," it was a tribal "dispute," a "robbery," and the behavior of "rascals" certainly gave me the impression that many were not horrified by this event.

 

I now understand that the term "rascals" in this context does not mean what the term generally means here in the U.S., such as in the old TV show called "The Little Rascals," about a group of mischievous but good-hearted young boys. And many posts on this thread have convinced me that others find this crime, though perhaps common, equally appalling as I find it.

 

I have certainly learned something through reading this thread.

[Aus Traveller]

I believe that most, if not all, Australians have been appalled by this crime. Australian governed PNG until it gained independence (around 1976) so many Aussies have worked there or have family members who have done so. Australia pours a lot of aid money into PNG and there are still close links. Most Aussies are quite aware of the local situation but I can understand that this would not be known in other parts of the world.

 

I do not believe an attack like this could happen in Sydney (as someone previously said).

 

I am sure the photograph of the men was a file photo taken previously of a gang similar to the one responsible for this atrocity.

 

Hearing interviews with the survivors makes it even more horrifying. Two PNG porters were slaughtered and others were so badly injured, it is unlikely they will ever walk again. The Australian survivors praised the ex-pat tour leader who they say put her own life on the line to save theirs. They want to set up a Foundation to raise money for the PNG survivors and for families of the dead.:)