Man overboard

[tothemall&beyond]

That goes for the real world as well. While I agree about making working condition better, there are many people in the real world that work in same or worse condtions that don't give up. Let's keep in mind many of the wokers are from countries where seeing a counselor would not be a consideration because it's seen a going crazy. There might be cultures where this act of checking out is acceptable. There is only one group of people I have come across that can say the word counselor without a negative reaction.

 

Agree about the "real world". That's another discussion that must be had and acted upon. But I'll refrain from going too political on a cruise board.

[Christine Frances]

But there is certainly something that can and should be done before it happens! Because it happens way too often; more often that most passengers realize.

First, cruise lines should pay these guys a reasonable wage and stop making them rely on passengers' "voluntary" tips for the majority of their livelihood. Second, they should have reasonable working hours. If that means more crew members need to be on board, so be it. If they can cram more passengers onto the ships for revenue, they can find ways to accommodate more crew, too. Third, there should be a licensed counselor on board all ships so that crew members can get help dealing with the problems that life brings their way. And, unless they pose a risk to passengers or fellow crew members requiring action, it must be privileged so that superiors can't "punish" them.

 

They have a union! http://www.itfseafarers.org/ITI-cruise.cfm

[Loonbeam]

As I noted, some of the staff on board are supposed to be trained in a counseling role. That said, also as noted, in many cultures, especially Asian, counseling is not seen as a beneficial or acceptable option. In certain cultures, suicide is acceptable to avoid disgrace or dishonor (I am not 100 percent clear on where the Filipino culture stands on these). Princess also has a line for employees to report harassment directly to an office at corporate. We saw the signs on a UST.

 

Unless they left a note, which will not be released, we will never know if it was something on the ship, off the ship, a psychological issue, alcohol, or some combination of the above that drove the crewmember to this action. Speculating on it is counterproductive and to my mind a little disrespectful.

 

But there is certainly something that can and should be done before it happens! Because it happens way too often; more often that most passengers realize.

First, cruise lines should pay these guys a reasonable wage and stop making them rely on passengers' "voluntary" tips for the majority of their livelihood. Second, they should have reasonable working hours. If that means more crew members need to be on board, so be it. If they can cram more passengers onto the ships for revenue, they can find ways to accommodate more crew, too. Third, there should be a licensed counselor on board all ships so that crew members can get help dealing with the problems that life brings their way. And, unless they pose a risk to passengers or fellow crew members requiring action, it must be privileged so that superiors can't "punish" them.

[Thrak]

As I noted, some of the staff on board are supposed to be trained in a counseling role. That said, also as noted, in many cultures, especially Asian, counseling is not seen as a beneficial or acceptable option. In certain cultures, suicide is acceptable to avoid disgrace or dishonor (I am not 100 percent clear on where the Filipino culture stands on these). Princess also has a line for employees to report harassment directly to an office at corporate. We saw the signs on a UST.

 

Unless they left a note, which will not be released, we will never know if it was something on the ship, off the ship, a psychological issue, alcohol, or some combination of the above that drove the crewmember to this action. Speculating on it is counterproductive and to my mind a little disrespectful.

 

I googled the religious breakdown in the Philippines and it says about 90% Roman Catholic. Definitely not a segment that condones suicide. Of course that still leaves 10%.

 

For all we know this person may have lost loved ones - or even his entire family - in the recent weather disaster in the Philippines. That would certainly depress anybody.

[Ethel5]

I totally agree. To jump to a conclusion that someone committed suicide because a passenger was rude to them is to be ignorant of the reality of mental illness.

 

Also, some people have a penchant for running into rude passengers. We have over 80 cruises and can count on the fingers of one hand the number of times we've seen truly rude passengers. I have come to the conclusion that some people are simply on the outlook for opportunities to be judgemental.

 

Underlying mental illness is certainly a strong possibility and, since you claim to be so well educated in mental illnesses, you should know that it only takes the "straw that broke the camel's back" to cause an irrational response. I can also count on one hand the number of times where passengers have been truly nasty to crew but when it does happen, it is cringe worthy.

[thyme2go]

This tragedy presents an opportunity for everyone--on the ship or not--to show compassion and comfort to other's as best they can. There will be someone around you who needs it. A simple smile, thank you, gesture of grace is all it takes...........

[Mom33]

As I noted, some of the staff on board are supposed to be trained in a counseling role. That said, also as noted, in many cultures, especially Asian, counseling is not seen as a beneficial or acceptable option. In certain cultures, suicide is acceptable to avoid disgrace or dishonor (I am not 100 percent clear on where the Filipino culture stands on these). Princess also has a line for employees to report harassment directly to an office at corporate. We saw the signs on a UST.

 

Unless they left a note, which will not be released, we will never know if it was something on the ship, off the ship, a psychological issue, alcohol, or some combination of the above that drove the crewmember to this action. Speculating on it is counterproductive and to my mind a little disrespectful.

 

Thanks for this comment. We really don't know why and probably never will.

We should all respect the family's privacy.

[RickEk]

Mentioned it was a crew member .I wonder if they have a person that crew members in distress can go to for advice and help?

 

As others have said, there are mechanisms in place to help crewmembers, but many of their cultures frown on someone asking for help...

 

But there is certainly something that can and should be done before it happens! Because it happens way too often; more often that most passengers realize.

First, cruise lines should pay these guys a reasonable wage and stop making them rely on passengers' "voluntary" tips for the majority of their livelihood. Second, they should have reasonable working hours. If that means more crew members need to be on board, so be it. If they can cram more passengers onto the ships for revenue, they can find ways to accommodate more crew, too. Third, there should be a licensed counselor on board all ships so that crew members can get help dealing with the problems that life brings their way. And, unless they pose a risk to passengers or fellow crew members requiring action, it must be privileged so that superiors can't "punish" them.

 

As an aside (and a minor hijack), we spoke to one of our servers on a recent cruise who had been with Princess for about 10 years. He was Filipino and with the wages that he was paid, he had two homes in the Phillipines and was able to send all of his children to college. Although he missed his family when he was working aboard ship, he did take long vacations and was grateful with the opportunities that Princess provided. What we in the US would consider a "reasonable wage" would be considered extravagant in many other countries... just sayin'...

Edited January 8, 2014 by RickEk

[gelo7]

That's always terrible to hear.

[Thrak]

As others have said, there are mechanisms in place to help crewmembers, but many of their cultures frown on someone asking for help...

 

 

 

As an aside (and a minor hijack), we spoke to one of our servers on a recent cruise who had been with Princess for about 10 years. He was Filipino and with the wages that he was paid, he had two homes in the Phillipines and was able to send all of his children to college. Although he missed his family when he was working aboard ship, he did take long vacations and was grateful with the opportunities that Princess provided. What we in the US would consider a "reasonable wage" would be considered extravagant in many other countries... just sayin'...

 

I once looked up wages in the Philippines. Wow. After that I didn't think the cruise crew was doing badly at all compared to what people earned there. Doctors, lawyers, engineers, pilots, you name it. The wages were really low.

[Host Joe]

On the Grand, the Captain just announced that the search has been called off and we are headed for Hawaii along with Star. There was a sick crew member on our ship that we just transferred over to Star as the Captains were thinking that Star would be released first.

[SKOOKUM]

As I noted, some of the staff on board are supposed to be trained in a counseling role. That said, also as noted, in many cultures, especially Asian, counseling is not seen as a beneficial or acceptable option. In certain cultures, suicide is acceptable to avoid disgrace or dishonor (I am not 100 percent clear on where the Filipino culture stands on these). Princess also has a line for employees to report harassment directly to an office at corporate. We saw the signs on a UST.

 

Unless they left a note, which will not be released, we will never know if it was something on the ship, off the ship, a psychological issue, alcohol, or some combination of the above that drove the crewmember to this action. Speculating on it is counterproductive and to my mind a little disrespectful.

 

Thank you for this response, it is the best comment so far.

Reading this thread has been very disturbing...

 

All comments about possible reasons for this person to commit suicide, are very disrespectful to all. Including the persons family back home.

[PescadoAmarillo]

Underlying mental illness is certainly a strong possibility and, since you claim to be so well educated in mental illnesses, you should know that it only takes the "straw that broke the camel's back" to cause an irrational response. I can also count on one hand the number of times where passengers have been truly nasty to crew but when it does happen, it is cringe worthy.

I never claimed to be well educated: in fact, I have no education in it at all. But one doesn't get through life without being touched by suicide, which I have been, many times starting at age 11. To imply that someone being rude might have set this off is just wrong. Even if someone WAS rude or mean to this person, it's not right to suggest it was causative of a suicide.

[petlover]

Host Joe,

Have you heard what department he worked in, or perhaps behind the scenes in the kitchen or engine room ? Had he been with Princess long?

 

This is so very very sad, but I do hope you and all the passengers can move forward and enjoy the rest of your cruise.

[sprinkles]

I,m currently on the Grand Princess. Yes, both our ships have been released to leave the scene. This has been very sad. I've spoken with crew members who have said that the deceased was having alot of personal issues back home with wife and kids. I've also been told that yes, they do have human rescources here to help "counsel" crew members.

 

One of the saddest things I have seen is people making jokes about the whole thing, without regards to who is around listening - i.e. maybe a personal friend or something.

 

But for the most part, I have not seen the "typical bad cruiser behavior" - time will tell. It's just nice at this point to be sailling again. Very weird last night at muts just basically sitting here in the middle of the ocean going nowhere.

 

Then even more strange just now - pulling up so close the the Star Princess to transfer our sick crew member. We'll I'm off, we've just been told Hilo is definately cancelled and who knows if there will be a second port scratched as well.

 

Tammy

[Belle]

Prayers for the family of the person

who jumped

 

Also prayers for the Grand Princess

employee's and officers. This is the

2nd jumper. A passenger jumped on

11-10-13 cruise. They stayed and

searched and searched with the Coast Guard

and lost a port too.

 

How sad they have to go through it again.

All the emotions everyone is feeling.

What could they of done..missing their family's

at this terrible time..ect.

Then they still all have to do their jobs.

[TracieABD]

I will keep the crew, passengers, and families in my thoughts.

[Cruzin-K]

This is such a sad thread. I feel so bad for the crew on board the Grand. I'm sure the deceased crewmember had friends on board, and they will still have to report for work every day with a smile on their faces. How hard must that be. :(

[Host Joe]

Host Joe,

Have you heard what department he worked in, or perhaps behind the scenes in the kitchen or engine room ? Had he been with Princess long?

 

This is so very very sad, but I do hope you and all the passengers can move forward and enjoy the rest of your cruise.

 

Unfortunately the man worked with the passengers and was someone with whom we had contact with. It is very sad... our energy goes out to all of his family, friends and co-workers.

[jean s]

Sending my prayers for this person and his family. I can only imagine their sadness.

[ldubs]

As I noted, some of the staff on board are supposed to be trained in a counseling role. That said, also as noted, in many cultures, especially Asian, counseling is not seen as a beneficial or acceptable option. In certain cultures, suicide is acceptable to avoid disgrace or dishonor (I am not 100 percent clear on where the Filipino culture stands on these). Princess also has a line for employees to report harassment directly to an office at corporate. We saw the signs on a UST.

 

Unless they left a note, which will not be released, we will never know if it was something on the ship, off the ship, a psychological issue, alcohol, or some combination of the above that drove the crewmember to this action. Speculating on it is counterproductive and to my mind a little disrespectful.

 

No, not part of the mainstream culture in the Philippines.

[digby]

This same thing happened a few weeks ago when a woman passenger jumped over board on a SF to HA to SF cruise.. At least one port was missed.

[c-legs]

What a sad situation.

 

I hope everyone reading this thread will take to heart the stress crew members can be under. It might just take one final complaint or rude comment from a passenger to put someone over the edge. After 27 cruises on Princess ships, we have never encountered a crew member who wasn't pleasant and trying to do their best to please. But we have seen passengers be so rude to crew members treating them as servants rather than the personable helpful people they are or try very hard to be.

 

Wishing for a positive outcome with prayers for the family and friends of this crew member and the hope that the passengers will accept the interruption of their vacation with compassion and praise for Princess for doing whatever they can to find the missing person.

Very nicely put.

Thanks for the excellent post/

[dylandog25]

We also have over 27 cruises on Princess going back over twenty years and have never, repeat never seen a passenger being overly rude to a crew member. Not to say it doesn't happen. But for someone to go and jump overboard is some place off the chart in troubled behavior.

.

I wish I could say the same we had one lady who was so rude to the staff every meal time it was awful to listen and watch obnoxious was the word we used

[Host Joe]

Quick update, we are steaming ahead to Hawaii. The Captain sent wine to our tables this evening which was a nice gesture. We are missing our first port, which was to be Hilo. We are scheduled now for Oahu at 4pm, however the Captain is hoping to make it earlier. He will update us as we get closer.