Why do cruise lines not check school holidays when planning itineraries?

[ehfl]

Ships typically sail a set pattern, which helps to schedule available dock space in port. Just because there is a holiday, does not mean that magically, there will be more available dock space than normal in port, allowing for more ships than normal. While prices may be higher during school breaks, I've never had a problem finding a cruise within the break range. Just don't expect major shifts in dock availability based on your personal vacation schedule.

Edited May 30, 2014 by ehfl

[two_black_dogs]

Wow, how complex is the business of school holiday scheduling in the States? Here in Australia, it is pretty much 4 ten week terms, separated by 2 week vacations, with a longer break over Christmas/January. There may be a week or so variation between the states but more or less we are consistent. The downside - if you work in a school there is virtually no way you will ever have a holiday when it is not peak season. Thank goodness for long service leave - I am taking 4 weeks in term time - on FULL PAY! Cheaper, less crowded, and a timeframe and itinerary that suits me. Mind you... It means I probably won't get another holiday for the next ten years, but I think it will be worthwhile :)

[sail7seas]

School vacations in U.S. vary greatly as has been mentioned above.

 

'Spring break' goes on for about a month or so. Though most students only have a week's classes off, the start/stop date is widely variable.

Each school district/institution publishes the schedule with plenty of notice for anyone to make whatever plans they want.

 

Edited May 30, 2014 by sail7seas

[SantaFeFan]

Wow, how complex is the business of school holiday scheduling in the States?

 

Not complex at all. In the US, each school district sets it's own schedule to meet it's needs, accounting for local, state and national holidays or events. One benefit of the staggered scheduling is that all students and their families aren't competing for the same holiday resources at the same time, which results in a lessening the crowds at popular attractions or areas.

Edited May 30, 2014 by SantaFeFan

[navybankerteacher]

Children do drink, just not alcohol; and soft drinks make pretty near as much profit as alcoholic ones on British lines. Beer etc. is less than half the price the American lines charge. (Gambling isn't a big earner, either. There are enough places to gamble in the UK that people don't make it the raison d'etre for cruising.)

 

Compare the prices of soft drink packages with the liquor packages, or the per drink prices - there can be correlation between the profitability - of liquor and soft drinks - at least on US lines.

[xxoocruiser]

Generally ships sail full regardless of the school holidays so why would it even matter to the cruise lines ?

[Karysa]

A rather complete and rational answer to the question.

 

Sure makes sense to me. :)

 

 

It all made sense to me except one thing. Why on earth are the ships so big and full of high ropes and surf boarding activities? Those activities are certainly geared for families with children and teens. When I was 49 I climbed the rock wall on the VOS twice and I sure seemed like one of the older ones and possibly the oldest lady doing that and there were very few ice skaters and inline skaters going around with me also.

[fortinweb]

It all made sense to me except one thing. Why on earth are the ships so big and full of high ropes and surf boarding activities? Those activities are certainly geared for families with children and teens. When I was 49 I climbed the rock wall on the VOS twice and I sure seemed like one of the older ones and possibly the oldest lady doing that and there were very few ice skaters and inline skaters going around with me also.

 

Not all ships have these features. Many cruise lines don't see the need for such activities because they cater to a different demographic. People who need this kind of entertainment will choose ships that have such amenities, and those of us who have no need for them will chose others. Just choose a ship that doesn't have them if you think they are a waste of space.

Edited May 30, 2014 by fortinweb

[sail7seas]

It all made sense to me except one thing. Why on earth are the ships so big and full of high ropes and surf boarding activities? Those activities are certainly geared for families with children and teens. When I was 49 I climbed the rock wall on the VOS twice and I sure seemed like one of the older ones and possibly the oldest lady doing that and there were very few ice skaters and inline skaters going around with me also.

 

 

They have the activities for the kids, of course. Families will bring their children but there is no need the cruise lines need to carefully study vacation dates when setting out their itineraries and dates of sailing. Most certainly, the cruise lines need the families as that is their future. The older set is their past and present. Doesn't mean the young 'uns are necessarily their best spenders. :D Hopefully Mom and/or Dad makes the cruise line happy and does lots of spending on behalf of the kids. :)

 

 

It is also obvious which cruise lines seek out the youing 'uns more than others. There are ships with loads of games/toy/attractions and there are those with fewer.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Something else -- where we live -- many children do not go to the public schools (way too many problems in them) -- and they are home schooled. Thus they can take vacations whenever they want to.

[sail7seas]

Good point. Seems there is more and more home schooling these days.

[deedeetoo]

Generally ships sail full regardless of the school holidays so why would it even matter to the cruise lines ?

 

Cruise lines charge more during school holidays because demand is higher. Revenue may be down from onboard spending, but the family is paying more upfront. Obviously Thanksgiving and Christmas are more. But also compare a July Caribbean sailing to a September sailing on the same ship. There is a huge difference in price and it is all because kids are back in school in September so it is harder to fill the ship. Also, when you have kids sailing you are more likely to have more than 2 in a cabin. So not only do you have higher fees for the first two passengers, but you have extra revenue for the 3rd and/or 4th passenger in the room.

[wwcruisers]

You did make the mistake in thinking that cruise lines want more children - and their parents - to take a cruise. Except in a very few rare cases (like Disney) we do not.

 

Children cannot gamble or drink alcohol.

Children rarely go on expensive excursions.

Children rarely make spa appointments.

Children do not purchase jewelry.

Their parents spent all their money on the children and school, so have very little left to spend onboard.

The parents often cannot afford to tip for the children, claiming that the children are no bother for the staff and make their jobs easier (exactly the opposite of reality).

Children often bother the passengers who do spend money on our ships, chasing them away.

 

But Bruce -- how then do you explain what RC has done, in the last 10 years? When we first started cruising with them ('02), the focus was on good food, beautiful ships, great entertainment. Then, they started focusing more on attractions for families: flow-riders, carousels, Shrek and Barbie. Meanwhile (to us, anyway) things like service and food quality declined. As folks who don't cruise with kids, we quickly realized that we were still paying for all these attractions that we had no use for -- and we switched to Celebrity. Of course, I know that X is part of RCCL -- so, it's a win-win for Richard Fain. But, my point is that this was a clearly thought-out strategy on the part of management -- to attract families with kids.

Edited May 31, 2014 by wwcruisers

[ShipFish]

Bit of a rhetorical question really.... Looking to plan our holidays for next year. There are very few cruises which tie in with Christmas, Easter and half term holidays in the UK. Most schools follow the same patterns for holidays might be useful if someone involved in planning itineraries took these dates into consideration. People with children ought to be tied to these dates and those with or without children who work in education definitely are, yet it seems that a huge customer base is being missed here. Spent time today searching for something to fit in with dates yet a lot of cruises sail on the last day of term or return after term starts :(

 

Perhaps if someone from cruise lines reads this it might be taken into consideration for future years. Looks like my half terms are not going to be spent at sea next year!

 

I know the conversation has wandered on, but going back to the original question (more or less). I don't know if it'll be any help to you but Princess have run a summer half-term cruise from Southampton for the last couple of years at least (7 day cruising from Saturday - Saturday). We were on it last year and was looking at doing it again this year but unfortunately other family commitments meant we were unable to.

[BruceMuzz]

But Bruce -- how then do you explain what RC has done, in the last 10 years? When we first started cruising with them ('02), the focus was on good food, beautiful ships, great entertainment. Then, they started focusing more on attractions for families: flow-riders, carousels, Shrek and Barbie. Meanwhile (to us, anyway) things like service and food quality declined. As folks who don't cruise with kids, we quickly realized that we were still paying for all these attractions that we had no use for -- and we switched to Celebrity. Of course, I know that X is part of RCCL -- so, it's a win-win for Richard Fain. But, my point is that this was a clearly thought-out strategy on the part of management -- to attract families with kids.

 

Royal Caribbean and Carnival are currently locked in a battle to the death to control the cruise market in the Caribbean. Caribbean cruises are primarily marketed to those who are too cheap or too poor to take a "real cruise". That includes much of what is left of the American Middle Class, and their children.

For the time being, this is the status quo. Sadly, the only way Caribbean cruises can make a profit is the Wal-Mart approach to sales; High volume, low quality, and slim profits.

But Royal Caribbean has recently learned that their fleet of mega-ships can perform much better in Asia and Europe. The Asian and European Middle Classes have much more disposable income than the Americans.

The Asians and Europeans still want the bells and whistles for the kiddies, but they are willing and able to pay their way.

RCCL is going to get a bit more sophisticated in Europe and Asia, while still appealing to the families and children there.

The older RCCL ships will remain in the Caribbean to catch the low hanging fruit, and Celebrity will keep a few ships there to catch the people who cannot tolerate the white trash on Carnival and RCCL.

[Velvetwater]

Royal Caribbean and Carnival are currently locked in a battle to the death to control the cruise market in the Caribbean. Caribbean cruises are primarily marketed to those who are too cheap or too poor to take a "real cruise". That includes much of what is left of the American Middle Class, and their children.

For the time being, this is the status quo. Sadly, the only way Caribbean cruises can make a profit is the Wal-Mart approach to sales; High volume, low quality, and slim profits.

But Royal Caribbean has recently learned that their fleet of mega-ships can perform much better in Asia and Europe. The Asian and European Middle Classes have much more disposable income than the Americans.

The Asians and Europeans still want the bells and whistles for the kiddies, but they are willing and able to pay their way.

RCCL is going to get a bit more sophisticated in Europe and Asia, while still appealing to the families and children there.

The older RCCL ships will remain in the Caribbean to catch the low hanging fruit, and Celebrity will keep a few ships there to catch the people who cannot tolerate the white trash on Carnival and RCCL.

 

As someone who is a well paid professional, european and kind of young for the main cruise market I would have to disagree on a few points.

 

1) a cruise is a cruise...where ever it goes. People need to accept that the cruise industry is moving in a different direction. The family/younger couple market is booming in all locations. A good chunk of companies are moving to suit this. I would not be surprised to see certain lines struggle in the next few decades.

 

2)Our tax does not make our income as disposable as one might expect. Not to mention that UK based lines have realised there is a 'chav' market that wants budget ship holidays.I imagine the other lines might twig on to this as well and offer a family based product rather than an upscale one.

 

 

3) Never done a Carribean cruise with Carnival but did Europe with them last year and no white trash to be seen (yes...it was a rather different journey) but it shows lines can present differently...especially when our cruise had a lot of UK people on board. I also expect that RCCL journeys from the UK will start to attract chav types who usually do cheap fly Med holidays rather than sophisticated types.

 

Point being that any cruise line that offers a cheap holiday will often attract a certain clientele and the industry knows the big money is with younger folk.

[sapete]

deleted

Edited June 1, 2014 by sapete
pre-mature post

[sapete]

Something else -- where we live -- many children do not go to the public schools (way too many problems in them) -- and they are home schooled. Thus they can take vacations whenever they want to.

 

 

 

Good point. Seems there is more and more home schooling these days.

 

 

US Department of Education says that 3% of students are home-schooled.

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[tip]

Caribbean cruises are primarily marketed to those who are too cheap or too poor to take a "real cruise". That includes much of what is left of the American Middle Class, and their children.

/QUOTE]

 

Judgmental much?:rolleyes: Not all of us go on a TA cruise or to exotic destinations with Cunard. I guess we don't take real cruises!:eek:

[CheckersMidwest]

On ONE point, I do agree - Europeans do have more 'free' money than us Americans. We've had two exchange students and they had a hard time understanding why we, as Americans, don't just buy whatever and vacation a lot. We explained that a lot of us only get 2 weeks off of work per year, they didn't understand how huge the US is....and that we can't drive to the coast from the Midwest in a day....so trips either require more days just to travel, or an extra $1600 for a family of 4 to fly. Both of the kids commented how cheap things were here - another reason why they thought we'd all have tons of left over money. We also explained that some people could afford to travel, but since it was a large amount of $, they chose to spend it on their homes, etc instead of trips. Some people just choose to be more frugal.

 

On all the other points. Wow. Just wow. I'm not sure if you (Bruce)called MOST cruisers poor white trash on purpose just to start a fight, or if you really are that arrogant.

[wwcruisers]

For those of you who are not familiar with our friend BruceMuzz -- he works (or has worked) on a major cruise line. He has said that he's not permitted to say which one, but I've been trying hard to narrow down the possible choices -- and, I think I'm close! ;)

 

And yes, he can be a little prickly, but I think that day in and day out, he sees a side of the cruising public that most of us hope to never encounter. :eek:

 

BruceMuzz is also a great inside source of information, about how things work below the waterline, as they say. After reading his posts for years, I'm hoping that he will take his experience and acerbic wit, and write a book. I think it would be hilarious! :D Just my $.02 .....

Edited June 2, 2014 by wwcruisers

[boogs]

For those of you who are not familiar with our friend BruceMuzz -- he works (or has worked) on a major cruise line. He has said that he's not permitted to say which one, but I've been trying hard to narrow down the possible choices -- and, I think I'm close! ;)

 

And yes, he can be a little prickly, but I think that day in and day out, he sees a side of the cruising public that most of us hope to never encounter. :eek:

 

BruceMuzz is also a great inside source of information, about how things work below the waterline, as they say. After reading his posts for years, I'm hoping that he will take his experience and acerbic wit, and write a book. I think it would be hilarious! :D Just my $.02 .....

 

I also value BruceMuzz's contributions to these forums. Because of his posts we get to see what is beyond that "Staff Only" doorway. Here is part of a recent post (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=42506194&postcount=27) that gives some insight as to his level of experience:

 

"I have managed 28 different cruise ships for 11 different cruise lines over the past 30+ years. Those lines ranged from the most upscale to the least upscale."

 

And here is the part that gives an insight of what he has had to deal with over the years:

 

"During that period of time, hundreds of Cruisecritic members have informed me that they would never sail any of those cruise lines ever again because the ships were:

 

Too big / too small

Too expensive / too cheap

Too elegant / too plain

Too fast / too slow

Too sophisticated / not sophisticated enough

Too much Norwegian/Chinese/German/Greek/ Italian/Dutch/American/International

Not enough Norwegian/Chinese/German/Greek/ Italian/Dutch/American/International

Too avant garde / too old style

Too many smokers / not enough places to smoke

Child friendly / not child friendly

Elderly friendly / not elderly friendly

Too much like the other lines / not enough like the other lines

Too hot / too cold

Food too spicy / food too bland

Food portions too large / food portions too small

Crew too friendly / crew not friendly enough

Passengers too snooty / passengers too trashy

Too many formal nights / not enough formal nights"

 

Personally, I am amazed he is as calm as he is. If I had to deal with the finicky public for as long has he has had to do, I would have either been arrested for throwing an annoying passenger overboard, or been committed to a mental hospital. :D

Edited June 2, 2014 by boogs

[tactic]

After my frustration have persevered and found and booked something for Easter. The thought of not cruising between July this year and July next year was my prob. I guess the moral behind the story here was stop moaning, do more and more and when I thought I'd finished do a bit more of trawling websites and my internet fairy godmother fulfilled my wish.... Last week I was a sad unhappy bunny this week a happy bunny :) and as an extra bonus hubby was pleased with choice..... So I managed to tick every box

[Traveller20074]

Bit of a rhetorical question really.... Looking to plan our holidays for next year. There are very few cruises which tie in with Christmas, Easter and half term holidays in the UK. Most schools follow the same patterns for holidays might be useful if someone involved in planning itineraries took these dates into consideration. People with children ought to be tied to these dates and those with or without children who work in education definitely are, yet it seems that a huge customer base is being missed here. Spent time today searching for something to fit in with dates yet a lot of cruises sail on the last day of term or return after term starts :(

 

Perhaps if someone from cruise lines reads this it might be taken into consideration for future years. Looks like my half terms are not going to be spent at sea next year!

 

exactly!!!!

 

I'll be sharing this idea with NCL. it should be easy to find a schedule, at least ONE date in the summer when the kids aren't in school, but I'm finding it's difficult.

Edited June 5, 2014 by Traveller20074

[Traveller20074]

You did make the mistake in thinking that cruise lines want more children - and their parents - to take a cruise. Except in a very few rare cases (like Disney) we do not.

 

Children cannot gamble or drink alcohol.

Children rarely go on expensive excursions.

Children rarely make spa appointments.

Children do not purchase jewelry.

Their parents spent all their money on the children and school, so have very little left to spend onboard.

The parents often cannot afford to tip for the children, claiming that the children are no bother for the staff and make their jobs easier (exactly the opposite of reality).

Children often bother the passengers who do spend money on our ships, chasing them away.

that seems logical.

 

Why in the world would cruiselines schedule around school holidays? That makes no sense, they're businesses, not educational facilities.

No, but they could have a few more during the middle of the summer (US) so more could sail. it appears they purposely put the cruises that my grandkids could have "sailed free" at the 'edges' of their break. So, they know when the kids can and can't sail. They're doing it on purpose. If they had the 'kids sail free' just a week later in June, and a week earlier in August, there would be no scheduling problems.