Balcony Smoking on Carnival

[Wert Q Gumby]

Just cancelled all of our bookings with carnival. Guess my business is no good. We are now looking at HAL or else where. Fun ship, yeah right, NOT!

[luv4cruises]

But tell me, are you concerned about the rights and privileges of smokers?

 

Scott & Karen

 

No one has the right or privilege to pollute the very air we health -contious passengers breath.

 

You have the right and privilege to cause harm to yourself, but not to those who have no way to escape the air smokers pollute.

 

Many public areas in cities and many university campuses have completely banned smoking in light of indisputable scientific evidence that smoking is hazardous to your health.

[cruisemom42]

No one has the right or privilege to pollute the very air we health -contious passengers breath.

 

You have the right and privilege to cause harm to yourself, but not to those who have no way to escape the air smokers pollute.

 

Many public areas in cities and many university campuses have completely banned smoking in light of indisputable scientific evidence that smoking is hazardous to your health.

 

Absent some law, rule, regulation expressly taking away smokers' right to smoke, they have every right to do so where it is allowed.

 

Secondhand smoke is alleged to cause about 42,000 deaths annually in the US, while gun violence is allegedly responsible for more than 100,000 deaths. Yet people have the right to own guns (and indeed to carry them in an increasing number of places) because it is not illegal to do so. Despite the fact that they can certainly cause harm.

[esmo]

Wow! It always amazes me the level of vitriol leveled at people who smoke. I wonder if people who post such harsh statements realize (or even care) how they sound. People who smoke pay the same price for the "privilege" of cruising as those who do not, which seems to me a fact that is often ignored. The lack of basic human courtesy on both sides of the issue is a sad commentary on the overall diminishing civility in society today.

 

 

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[Lizzie68]

Wow! It always amazes me the level of vitriol leveled at people who smoke. I wonder if people who post such harsh statements realize (or even care) how they sound. People who smoke pay the same price for the "privilege" of cruising as those who do not, which seems to me a fact that is often ignored. The lack of basic human courtesy on both sides of the issue is a sad commentary on the overall diminishing civility in society today.

 

 

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Up until now this thread has been pretty courteous. And harsh statements are always on both sides when it gets out of hand.

[AlohaPride]

I'm shocked too. I would think there would be more smokers on carnival because they like to party. Drinking and smokes seem to go hand in hand.

 

Not only am I surprised, but I'm also surprised at them giving only three months notice until the change goes into effect. I seem to remember both Princess and Royal Caribbean giving notice approaching one year of the policy change.

 

Hope HAL isn't far behind. As a prior poster said, if I was betting I would give it a year tops.

 

Exactly!! Only 3 months when most people book a year out? If I were a smoker I'd be upset.

Edited July 9, 2014 by AlohaPride

[goleta]

If HAL does not follow suit quickly, they are now just about guaranteeing the non-smoking verandah category guests who do not like second hand smoke will be bombarded with it.

 

 

HAL you are being backed into a corner. Do you need a brick dropped on your head? I could understand HAL did not want to lose smokers' business but if all the cruise lines are doing that, do they really have to win the price to be the last to ban verandah smoking? How many of us have to lose use of verandahs from being polluted before you join the huge majority and stop allowing it?

 

The time is NOW.

 

I agree! Those who smoke will have a spot or two or three to do so! HAL won't lose customers if they up their smoking policy.

[RDC1]

Absent some law, rule, regulation expressly taking away smokers' right to smoke, they have every right to do so where it is allowed.

 

Secondhand smoke is alleged to cause about 42,000 deaths annually in the US, while gun violence is allegedly responsible for more than 100,000 deaths. Yet people have the right to own guns (and indeed to carry them in an increasing number of places) because it is not illegal to do so. Despite the fact that they can certainly cause harm.

 

Your numbers are a bit off. US deaths by gun violence is about 27,000 per year, 2/3 of those are suicide (around 18000 per year). Homicide total about 8,000 and accidental deaths are about 1000.

 

While you did get the second hand smoke number right you did not include the 480,000 total deaths per year that smoking is responsible for nor did you mention that for every death there is 30 times the number people that suffer from serious illness related to smoking. Using your number of 42,000 deaths related to second hand smoke that comes to 1,260,000 that suffer from serious illness related to second hand smoke and 14,400,000 in total that suffer from serious illness caused by smoking. Numbers related to smoking from the CDC web site.

Edited July 9, 2014 by RDC1

[goleta]

Oh good, another smoking thread.:rolleyes:

 

Hate to throw a wrench in the mix, but has anyone thought about the impact to HAL if they do this?

 

Those evil people (aka smokers) who book the more expensive cabins will start at looking at other options if this becomes the law of the land (or sea)

 

If the rules are the same then they will look at options and may opt to choose a more upscale line or even a mass market competitor.

 

I know, it's only 20% in America but it is more in Europe and they are the pricier cruises IMO

 

Hopefully, they do a better job of it when and if they do it than they did with the wine policy

 

I don't think HAL will suffer. Bars, restaurants here in CA are doing just fine. Airlines still have passengers and smoking is not al.

lowed. I think more non-smokers will sail and those who smoke will still sail but smoke in the designated smoking areas. What I fear is the smokers will opt for paying the fine of only 250

[scm1848]

Anybody have statistics on obesity vs. smoking and guns?? We're all allowed to blast smokers and gun deaths, but how many of you are seriously overweight? Talk about a health issue!!!!

[cruisemom42]

Your numbers are a bit off. US deaths by gun violence is about 27,000 per year, 2/3 of those are suicide (around 18000 per year). Homicide total about 8,000 and accidental deaths are about 1000.

 

 

Sorry -- I reached for a number online and obviously it included both gun deaths and gun injuries.

 

My point was not to quibble over the numbers but to point out the fallacy of the argument to which I responded.

[RDC1]

Anybody have statistics on obesity vs. smoking and guns?? We're all allowed to blast smokers and gun deaths, but how many of you are seriously overweight? Talk about a health issue!!!!

 

Since you asked.

 

According to the National Institutes of Health, obesity and overweight together are the second leading cause of preventable death in the United States, close behind tobacco use. An estimated 300,000 deaths per year are due to the obesity epidemic.

 

Needless to say there are not second hand obesity numbers.

[goleta]

We are taking our first HAL cruise, leaving on Saturday. We booked a balcony cabin because we "have" to have a balcony - that is just us. Because this was a last minute cruise for us, we were not even aware when we booked that my husband would be able to smoke on the balcony - and for us that is a bonus but as we have sailed on other lines that do not allow it - not a deal maker or breaker.

 

Of course it is more convenient that he can smoke on the balcony and he will take advantage - and try to do so when neighbors are not out on their verandahs. I do wish, as lines restrict smoking, they would provide a decent, indoor/outdoor place for smokers to go. I don't think that the smoking on balconies issue would be so important to smokers, if they had a viable and comfortable alternative. Instead they are restricted to the casino (which makes nobody happy) and some out of the way spot on deck where if the weather is inclement they have to brave the elements. It isn't as if someone who smokes has paid less for a comparable cabin than a non-smoker. If the non-smoker has the attitude that their cruise would be ruined if they encounter any smoke, what about the smoker, whose cruise experienced is diminished because they are made to feel like pariahs?

 

I don't consider you a pariah........I just don't want to subject my lungs to smoke. I do agree that smokers need a nice spot to smoke.

[LMaxwell]

20 years from now this will be a one sided debate and it will sound exactly like one hand clapping.

 

Fearless prediction; HAL announces smoke ban in early 2015; implements by mid 2015.

[scm1848]

I hope not. They'll lose our 14 night New Zealand and 10 night south Pacific b2b cruise business later in the year.

 

Also, if you're overweight, please don't approach me about smoking. I'm losing patience with age (66).

[Richie2pies]

Very easy. When all lines ban smoking on balconies, I stop cruising. I enjoy a cocktail and smoke on my balcony. Plenty of other ways to spend my money that allow smoking.

[NoobCruise]

If all of you really want HAL to follow Carnival's lead then HAL will have to go back to allowing smoking in one of the bars. If you read the Carnival policy they allow smoking in one of they nightclubs. HAL does not, at this time, provide an indoor smoking area.

 

Sails, as many people are leaving due to the HAL smoking policy just as many are sailing HAL so they can smoke.

 

They don't allow smoking in the casino anymore???

[NoobCruise]

Anybody have statistics on obesity vs. smoking and guns?? We're all allowed to blast smokers and gun deaths, but how many of you are seriously overweight? Talk about a health issue!!!!

 

Someone elses over-eating doesn't affect my asthma and trigger a severe medical issue. Their cigarette smoking does.

[Sam.Seattle]

Hip Hip Hooray for Carnival!!!

 

It is only a matter of time for HAL to join in....

 

 

 

Edited July 9, 2014 by Sam.Seattle

[Wakepatrol]

If you really want some fun...head over to the Carnival board

 

There's even a "Where Should You Be Allowed To Vape" poll you can participate in:)

[kazu]

They don't allow smoking in the casino anymore???

 

Smoking is allowed IF the person is playing and the casino is open.

 

So, only at sea and if the person is gambling

Edited July 9, 2014 by kazu

[1of4]

I hate to wade into this debate...but I would like to say that not everybody who is overweight is so because they overeat. Many are, but not all.

 

All these generalizations, labels and jugements make me cringe. I had to take medication that saved my life but I gained weight and am now a plus size. I have lost 70 lbs but am still on the verge of "normal" versus plus size. I have been humiliated by people talking very loudly behind me making statments about how I should kill myself rather than be a plus size...and these were two teachers. I had a man say very loudly in a restaurant that he wouldn't sit at a table beside the fat woman who the last thing she needs to do is eat more...it was my 40th birthday dinner.

 

Humiliation comes in all forms from many people. The "innocent" and loud comments anyone makes to be overheard does nothing to solve the issue and can have long lasting and devestating personl impact. So I implore anyone who has an issue with someone else to try to communicate first, face to face, to get the issue dealt with. If the other party is no open to change then there is not much you can do if they are within the rules.

 

It is not news to them that they: smoke, are overweight, or wear perfume.

[kazu]

If you really want some fun...head over to the Carnival board

 

There's even a "Where Should You Be Allowed To Vape" poll you can participate in:)

 

I followed your advice and went over. Aside from the fun, there were some interesting tidbits:

 

- that penalties are being waived on cancellations as long as they are outside final payment date (ie. Early savers, etc) if cancellation is due to the new policy

 

- that Carnival permits smoking in inside areas including the casino and nightclubs

 

- that HAL will implement in 2015 ( according to a CC member who has corporate connections)

 

The rest of the very long thread is typical smoking discussion on policy

 

I hate to wade into this debate...but I would like to say that not everybody who is overweight is so because they overeat. Many are, but not all.

 

All these generalizations, labels and jugements make me cringe. I had to take medication that saved my life but I gained weight and am now a plus size. I have lost 70 lbs but am still on the verge of "normal" versus plus size. I have been humiliated by people talking very loudly behind me making statments about how I should kill myself rather than be a plus size...and these were two teachers. I had a man say very loudly in a restaurant that he wouldn't sit at a table beside the fat woman who the last thing she needs to do is eat more...it was my 40th birthday dinner.

 

Humiliation comes in all forms from many people. The "innocent" and loud comments anyone makes to be overheard does nothing to solve the issue and can have long lasting and devestating personl impact. So I implore anyone who has an issue with someone else to try to communicate first, face to face, to get the issue dealt with. If the other party is no open to change then there is not much you can do if they are within the rules.

 

It is not news to them that they: smoke, are overweight, or wear perfume.

 

Well said:D. Generalizations are never good nor accurate.

Edited July 9, 2014 by kazu

[mame42]

I followed your advice and went over. Aside from the fun, there were some interesting tidbits:

 

- that penalties are being waived on cancellations as long as they are outside final payment date (ie. Early savers, etc) if cancellation is due to the new policy

 

- that Carnival permits smoking in inside areas including the casino and nightclubs

 

- that HAL will implement in 2015 ( according to a CC member who has corporate connections)

 

The rest of the very long thread is typical smoking discussion on policy

 

 

I did this also. I particularly appreciated the apt simile comparing arguing on the internet to playing chess with a pigeon, my first belly laugh of the day.

[jbhcw]

I hate to wade into this debate...but I would like to say that not everybody who is overweight is so because they overeat. Many are, but not all.

 

All these generalizations, labels and jugements make me cringe. I had to take medication that saved my life but I gained weight and am now a plus size. I have lost 70 lbs but am still on the verge of "normal" versus plus size. I have been humiliated by people talking very loudly behind me making statments about how I should kill myself rather than be a plus size...and these were two teachers. I had a man say very loudly in a restaurant that he wouldn't sit at a table beside the fat woman who the last thing she needs to do is eat more...it was my 40th birthday dinner.

 

Humiliation comes in all forms from many people. The "innocent" and loud comments anyone makes to be overheard does nothing to solve the issue and can have long lasting and devestating personl impact. So I implore anyone who has an issue with someone else to try to communicate first, face to face, to get the issue dealt with. If the other party is no open to change then there is not much you can do if they are within the rules.

 

It is not news to them that they: smoke, are overweight, or wear perfume.

 

I usually stay away from smoking threads..etc and just read for the entertainment value:D but being an exsmoker....many many years...and an ex perfume wearer...and a Carnival cruiser.... and becoming a bit overweight as I age....Just had to agree with 1of4....I try very hard to not judge people...I have a very close friend who gained 100 plus lbs due to a debilitating disease that took away much of her mobility...

 

Even though I feel sorry for the smokers...their choices are being taken away from them...I am happy about the no smoking on balconies but would be even happier if it was banned in inside areas..that is where it seems to bother me the most.

Edited July 9, 2014 by jbhcw