Carnival adding one way cruises from Baltimore to San Juan

[OVgirl]

I hope HAL is also looking into adding new itineraries for their ships.

They can keep things exciting by mixing it up once in a while.

 

Here is the info thanks to John Heald.

What do you think?

Interested?

 

Edited August 20, 2014 by OVgirl

[jtl513]

Nope! :D

 

I thought this would be a PVSA violation, but found this in Wikipedia:

 

As of October 30, 2003, foreign vessels are also allowed to transport passengers (but not cargo) between the U.S. mainland and Puerto Rico (46 U.S.C. § 55104). However, this exemption will disappear if U.S.-flagged ships resume passenger operations of this type.[2]

[Mar56]

I hope HAL is also looking into adding new itineraries for their ships.

They can keep things exciting by mixing it up once in a while.

 

Here is the info thanks to John Heald.

What do you think?

Interested?

 

 

Not interested in the one way to San Juan but definitely in some of the other new itineraries. We have sailed her before and she is a beautiful ship with great service.

[ScriptOhio]

I thought this would be a PVSA violation, but found this in Wikipedia:

 

As of October 30, 2003, foreign vessels are also allowed to transport passengers (but not cargo) between the U.S. mainland and Puerto Rico (46 U.S.C. § 55104). However, this exemption will disappear if U.S.-flagged ships resume passenger operations of this type.[2]

 

Re: Current federal regulation allows foreign cruise ships to make round trips between U.S. ports and stop along the way at intermediate U.S. ports so long as the ships make a stop at a foreign port and passengers do not leave the trip at one of the intermediate ports.

 

It's not a violation (even if there wasn't a Puerto Rico exception) as long as they stop in a foreign port and they do.

[chengkp75]

Re: Current federal regulation allows foreign cruise ships to make round trips between U.S. ports and stop along the way at intermediate U.S. ports so long as the ships make a stop at a foreign port and passengers do not leave the trip at one of the intermediate ports.

 

It's not a violation (even if there wasn't a Puerto Rico exception) as long as they stop in a foreign port and they do.

 

What the poster was questioning was the one way Baltimore to San Juan itineraries. Without the specific exception for Puerto Rico, this Baltimore, Bermuda, San Juan itinerary WOULD be a violation of the PVSA, as it starts and ends in different US ports and does not call at a "distant" foreign port (Bermuda does not qualify as a distant port for PVSA).

 

Carnival already offers one way cruises to San Juan from Galveston.

Edited August 20, 2014 by chengkp75

[jtl513]

It's not a violation (even if there wasn't a Puerto Rico exception) as long as they stop in a foreign port and they do.

It's not just "a foreign port". As chengkp75 said, to go one-way from Baltimore to SJPR or the other way it is necessary to visit a distant foreign port. The only distant foreign ports in the Western hemisphere on our side of the Atlantic are in South America or the ABC islands.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We would not be interested in that itinerary. Too long of a day flying from San Juan to Pittsburgh -- no direct flights. We already have a long day just going from Ft Lauderdale to Pittsburgh.

[PathfinderEss]

Nope, would not interest me. To long of flights for us.

[rafinmd]

I don't think I'm all that interested but I do see it as a welcome step. Other than the one ways, it's a huge improvement over the 2 dreary 7-day itineraries they do out of Baltimore now, but probably not even as good as Royal Caribbean has offered for years. I particularly failed to note any Canada/New England offerings for the Pride, so for me they're way behind Royal.

 

Roy

[ScriptOhio]

What the poster was questioning was the one way Baltimore to San Juan itineraries. Without the specific exception for Puerto Rico, this Baltimore, Bermuda, San Juan itinerary WOULD be a violation of the PVSA, as it starts and ends in different US ports and does not call at a "distant" foreign port (Bermuda does not qualify as a distant port for PVSA).

 

Carnival already offers one way cruises to San Juan from Galveston.

 

It's not just "a foreign port". As chengkp75 said, to go one-way from Baltimore to SJPR or the other way it is necessary to visit a distant foreign port. The only distant foreign ports in the Western hemisphere on our side of the Atlantic are in South America or the ABC islands.

 

Interesting; OK, how do cruise lines get away with just stopping at Victoria, Canada (on an Alaskan Cruise) and/or Ensenada, Mexico (on a Hawaii Cruise). They surely can't be considered a "distant port".

Edited August 21, 2014 by ScriptOhio

[Murray's Pop]

Interesting; OK, how do cruise lines get away with just stopping at Victoria, Canada (on an Alaskan Cruise) and/or Ensenada, Mexico (on a Hawaii Cruise). They surely can't be considered a "distant port".

 

Starting and ending in the same port.

[Shmoo here]

Interesting; OK, how do cruise lines get away with just stopping at Victoria, Canada (on an Alaskan Cruise) and/or Ensenada, Mexico (on a Hawaii Cruise). They surely can't be considered a "distant port".

 

Starting and ending in the same port.

 

Exactly.

 

A closed-loop cruise (beginning and ending in the same US port) only has to stop at any foreign port (near or distant).

 

An open ended cruise (begins in one US port and ends in a different US port) must stop at a distant foreign port.

 

EXCEPT for cruises that begin or end in Puerto Rico.

 

According to the PVSA: A “nearby foreign port” is defined as "any port in North America' date=' Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).[/i']

 

So, any port that cannot fit into the above description is a distant foreign port.

[ScriptOhio]

A closed-loop cruise (beginning and ending in the same US port) only has to stop at any foreign port (near or distant).

 

An open ended cruise (begins in one US port and ends in a different US port) must stop at a distant foreign port.

 

EXCEPT for cruises that begin or end in Puerto Rico.

 

According to the PVSA: A “nearby foreign port” is defined as "any port in North America, Central America, the Bermuda Islands, or the West Indies (including the Bahama Islands, but not including the Leeward Islands of the Netherlands Antilles, i.e., Aruba, Bonaire, and Curacao)." 19 CFR § 4.80a(a)(2).

 

So, any port that cannot fit into the above description is a distant foreign port.

 

Thanks you learn something every day, I wasn't aware there was a difference in the PVSA/Jones Act for cruises that were "closed loop" vs. "open loop".

[jtl513]

Thanks you learn something every day, I wasn't aware there was a difference in the PVSA/Jones Act for cruises that were "closed loop" vs. "open loop".

Here's another thing you can learn today: the PVSA of 1886 covers only people going from one US port to another, and the "Jones Act" (Merchant Marine Act of 1920) covers only cargo. They are not synonymous.

.

Edited August 21, 2014 by jtl513

[sail7seas]

No, not interested.

I wouldn't want the one way flight from San Juan home.

Nor does Baltimore specifically call me to visit. Nothing wrong with it but I can't say it's on my bucket list.

I went to college in Wash. D.C.

 

Edited August 21, 2014 by sail7seas

[Roz]

I wouldn't be interested in the one-ways, but the round trips from Baltimore are intriguing. We have a boatload of nonstop flights every day from Nashville to BWI, so that would work for me.

 

I was commenting to someone the other day that my only criticism of Carnival is that they offer the same tired itineraries and ports. Glad to see they're shaking things up.

 

Roz

[buckirj1]

I like the one-way cruise with the inclusion of the ABC islands, for someone who likes hot weather cruises, but it's...one-way, even though there are non-stop flights between BWI and San Juan. As I said on the Carnival board, I'm holding out for a Canada/NE cruise from Baltimore. I'm in no position to take a cruise in the near future, anyway. Planning is always fun, though.

[BruceMuzz]

Looks like John Heald is honing his PR skills - but he needs more training. Calling those ports "World's Most Exotic" and "Breathtaking" is quite of a stretch.

 

Flights into and out of Puerto Rico are limited and expensive. That will reduce the demand for those itineraries.

Any cruise over 7 days is difficult to sell at any price. Most Americans do not have the time or money for cruises over 7 days. Those who do are not going to the Caribbean.

 

Most cruise ships could make far more profit by sailing in other areas of the world.

This experiment will not last very long.

Edited August 22, 2014 by BruceMuzz

[Roz]

Thank you for the words of cheerful optimism.

 

Roz

[sail7seas]

Looks like John Heald is honing his PR skills - but he needs more training. Calling those ports "World's Most Exotic" and "Breathtaking" is quite of a stretch.

 

Flights into and out of Puerto Rico are limited and expensive. That will reduce the demand for those itineraries.

Any cruise over 7 days is difficult to sell at any price. Most Americans do not have the time or money for cruises over 7 days. Those who do are not going to the Caribbean.

 

Most cruise ships could make far more profit by sailing in other areas of the world.

This experiment will not last very long.

 

 

 

Home porting a ship in Shanghai could far more be considered "Exotic" to North Americans. RCI seems to have plans to put their new ship there. It's going to require lots of PR and advertising to tap that huge growing middle class market and will be fascinating to watch, IMO.

 

I agree sailing Baltimore to San Juan is hardly exotic. :)

 

I seem to recall years ago, for a Very brief time, HAL sailed from Baltimore. There were only a few cruises and I never saw them again. For some odd reason I'm thinking they also sailed into Philadelphia but is there a coast? I have to be making that up as isn't PA landlocked? Is Philadelphia accessible by water from Delaware Bay?

 

 

Edited August 22, 2014 by sail7seas

[chengkp75]

Home porting a ship in Shanghai could far more be considered "Exotic" to North Americans. RCI seems to have plans to put their new ship there. It's going to require lots of PR and advertising to tap that huge growing middle class market and will be fascinating to watch, IMO.

 

I agree sailing Baltimore to San Juan is hardly exotic. :)

 

I seem to recall years ago, for a Very brief time, HAL sailed from Baltimore. There were only a few cruises and I never saw them again. For some odd reason I'm thinking they also sailed into Philadelphia but is there a coast? I have to be making that up as isn't PA landlocked? Is Philadelphia accessible by water from Delaware Bay?

 

 

 

Philadelphia is a major port, it just requires an 8 hour run up the Delaware River. The cruise terminal is part of the old Philadelphia Navy Yard. I don't think there have been any cruise ships there for 8-10 years.

[sail7seas]

Philadelphia is a major port, it just requires an 8 hour run up the Delaware River. The cruise terminal is part of the old Philadelphia Navy Yard. I don't think there have been any cruise ships there for 8-10 years.

 

 

 

Thanks so much for confirming.

I was sure I remember something about HAL doing maybe a few cruises to/from Baltimore and Philadelphia. Must not have been too successful as they weren't repeated.

[rafinmd]

It looks like this is less a change in Carnival philosophy than meets the eye. In the past Carnival has sailed out of Baltimore every Sunday on two IMHO pretty hohum 7-day itineraries. Early in 2013 (I think) they announced plans to withdraw from Baltimore due to the need to use more expensive fuel on their sail up and down the bay. Several months later they reached an agreement with the authorities and announced the Pride would return to Baltimore next spring.

 

While they were committed to leaving Baltimore Royal Caribbean (which has always had a much nicer range of itineraries in Baltimore) booked several Sundays for the Grandeur of the Seas. It looks like Carnival had planned to return with their traditional tired itineraries, but our port can hold only one cruise ship at a time. The new Pride itineraries were adopted to account for the need to have some cruises go longer or shorter than 7 days to avoid conflict with the Grandeur. I don't know if Carnival can get back it's priority on Sundays once the Grandeur's current commitments are met; that and perhaps the success of the alternative itineraries will determine what the Pride offers in the future.

 

With regard to Philadelphia, I think the last cruises out of there regularly were the Celebrity Mercury around 2010. The Crystal Symphony was there in October 2010 on a port call but I'm not aware of any cruise ships there since then. The steam up the Delaware River sounds pretty similar to the steam up the Chesapeake Bay, and the clearances on the Commodore Barry and Chesapeake Bay bridges are pretty similar. I think Baltimore wins out as a port of call because it is an easy day trip to Washington, DC.

 

Roy

[sppunk]

What's sad about PHL's port is the gorgeous SS United States is there rusting away. :(