Carnival Corp. Introduces New Marketing Program

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

I hope it works out good for all ..

[djhsolara]

I've been talking about this for years. Look at hotel chains. If I'm a Hilton Honors member, I get points for staying at any Hilton brand...Hilton, Hampton Inn, Doubletree, etc. As a Starwood Preferred Guest, I get points at Westin, Sheraton, etc...it isn't around one specific brand of their corporation. I never understood why there wasn't one loyalty program for all Carnival Corp lines.

 

 

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[sppunk]

How does their program work? For example, if you have 50 days on RC and 40 on Celebrity do you have 90 or 50 days towards the RC programs?

 

I think a good program would keep the programs systems as they are now and you earn days on your line. But then when you travel a different line, you get the perks of the similar level on the new line. This way neither program gets overwhelmed.

 

Status level defaults to whatever that lines is, but the don't combine days. Like a 3 Star Mariner would get the equivalent on Princess, but the days on Princess won't boost your Mariner stats.

[RDC1]

And in theory, that could be enough by itself to require (or prevent) changes by Carnival in its business practices in order to maintain adequate competition.

 

But yes, the US does have regulators such as (for example) the Federal Trade Commission, the Department of Transportation and the Department of Justice, which oversee the amount of competition in various markets to ensure that there is an adequate amount of it to protect customers.

 

Would there still be enough competition if Carnival instituted a group-wide loyalty scheme? That would be for the regulators to decide. But Carnival's size and its dominance (as a group) of the cruise market has long been notable, hence I wonder whether this might be the point at which the regulators sit up and take notice.

 

Why wouldn't there be? While Carnival might be the largest they do not have anything close to a monopoly with effective competition from RCI (Celebrity, Azamara, Royal Caribbean), NCL (NCL, Oceania, Regent Seven Seas).

 

Carnival is still less than 50% of the cruise market.

Edited November 21, 2014 by RDC1

[DaveOKC]

Status level defaults to whatever that lines is, but the don't combine days. Like a 3 Star Mariner would get the equivalent on Princess, but the days on Princess won't boost your Mariner stats.

 

I hope CCL works their's the same way. Otherwise you would have too many folks in each category and then the line would have to reduce the perks (or raise the entry requirements).

 

DaveOKC

[Globaliser]

Why wouldn't there be? While Carnival might be the largest they do not have anything close to a monopoly ...

 

Carnival is still less than 50% of the cruise market.

And I think that's one of the reasons why Carnival has attracted no real interest at all. (Another is the segregation of the loyalty schemes to date.) It's been a very good strategy for staying under the radar. Keeping the schemes separate obviously reinforces the practical and effective competition between the brands of the group.

 

But if you institute a common loyalty scheme across the whole group, you don't need to get to 50% of the market to trigger competition concerns.

 

The Royal Caribbean / Celebrity model described by sppunk would be interesting: cross-scheme recognition of status but no cross-earning. That would take much of the sting out of commonality, as well as benefiting the customer as DaveOKC says.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

Royal Caribbean and Celebrity have a loyalty interchange program; your level on RC transfers to the equivalent Celebrity level.

 

I think that is why Carnival Corp. is doing it .

[kelleherdl]

I've been talking about this for years. Look at hotel chains. If I'm a Hilton Honors member, I get points for staying at any Hilton brand...Hilton, Hampton Inn, Doubletree, etc. As a Starwood Preferred Guest, I get points at Westin, Sheraton, etc...it isn't around one specific brand of their corporation. I never understood why there wasn't one loyalty program for all Carnival Corp lines.

 

Exactly.

 

We happen to be Marriott loyalists. We stay at all the levels of the parent brand and when we obtain benefits it is tiered based on where and what we are getting in benefits. A room at a Ritz-Carlton 'costs' more points than a Fairfield Inn. The benefits I receive at check-in for being Platinum are really only available at a nicer Marriott brand and I don't get anything at all at a Ritz-Carlton. Companies know how to do this.

 

Comparing this to the One-World Alliance (American/BA etc) or the other cross company programs that are 'regulated', not just by the FTC for competition but also by the various air transport agencies around the world is not a proper comparison.

 

Dennis

[VioletHorse]

All cruise lines have been scaling back/revising their loyalty programs in recent years.

 

If benefits have been increased, so has the level to achieve those benefits.

 

DS has taken a few Carnival cruises, and on his last cruise he wasn't even invited to the past passenger party with a watered down drink because the loyalty program had been revamped and he no longer qualified.

 

I have visions of this new program requiring 750 days to get 1 free load of laundry per cruise and a glass of undrinkable sparkling wine.

[Globaliser]

Look at hotel chains. If I'm a Hilton Honors member, I get points for staying at any Hilton brand...Hilton, Hampton Inn, Doubletree, etc. As a Starwood Preferred Guest, I get points at Westin, Sheraton, etc...it isn't around one specific brand of their corporation. I never understood why there wasn't one loyalty program for all Carnival Corp lines.

We happen to be Marriott loyalists. We stay at all the levels of the parent brand and when we obtain benefits it is tiered based on where and what we are getting in benefits. A room at a Ritz-Carlton 'costs' more points than a Fairfield Inn. The benefits I receive at check-in for being Platinum are really only available at a nicer Marriott brand and I don't get anything at all at a Ritz-Carlton. Companies know how to do this.

The difference is that the big hotel companies typically have something like 5-10% of the market (adding together all their brands). No company has even as much as 20%.

 

In contrast, Carnival's market share is something like 42-44%.

[SilvertoGold]

While I LOVE to speculate, this is all confusing.

 

If a pax has 100 days on HAL and nothing on Princess -- what would that give the pax on a Princess cruise?

 

If a Pax has 100 days on HAL, 60 days on Cunard -- what would that give the pax on a Princess cruise?

 

Thanks!!

[visagrunt]

And in theory, that could be enough by itself to require (or prevent) changes by Carnival in its business practices in order to maintain adequate competition.

 

But yes, the US does have regulators such as (for example) the Federal Trade Commission, the Department of Transportation and the Department of Justice, which oversee the amount of competition in various markets to ensure that there is an adequate amount of it to protect customers.

 

Would there still be enough competition if Carnival instituted a group-wide loyalty scheme? That would be for the regulators to decide. But Carnival's size and its dominance (as a group) of the cruise market has long been notable, hence I wonder whether this might be the point at which the regulators sit up and take notice.

 

These questions properly would have arisen at the time that Carnival acquired these cruise lines. The establishment of a common loyalty scheme is, frankly, trivial compared with the equity interest.

 

The only time I have ever seen a loyalty scheme impacted by anti-trust regulation is when BA and AA could not offer reciprocal mileage earning on flights between the US and UK. We have almost 20 years of interlinked loyalty programs with three large networks of air carriers. If these schemes do not offend anti-trust and combines law (and they are vastly more sophisticated, and involve considerably larger amounts of money) then it seems to me completely unlikely that a cross brand loyalty marketing scheme within any of the groups of cruise lines will.

[go fish 44]

How does their program work? For example, if you have 50 days on RC and 40 on Celebrity do you have 90 or 50 days towards the RC programs?

 

I think a good program would keep the programs systems as they are now and you earn days on your line. But then when you travel a different line, you get the perks of the similar level on the new line. This way neither program gets overwhelmed.

 

The answer is NO you do not get to add the points together.

 

If you are Select with Celebrity that moves you over to Platium on Royal

If you are Elite with Celebrity that moves you to Diamond on Royal.

or vice versa. You have to call the loyality program for the line you need to transfer your level to as it is not automatic. Both lines have higher loyality programs as well. This is just an example. To add to the confusion now Celebrity gives you points per night for the cabin you stay in. But it sstill works out as above. Sue

[InTheWASide]

I've been talking about this for years. Look at hotel chains. If I'm a Hilton Honors member, I get points for staying at any Hilton brand...Hilton, Hampton Inn, Doubletree, etc. As a Starwood Preferred Guest, I get points at Westin, Sheraton, etc...it isn't around one specific brand of their corporation. I never understood why there wasn't one loyalty program for all Carnival Corp lines.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Cruise Critic Forums mobile app

 

Exactly. It works just fine for Royal/Celebrity/Azamara... the most Royal has had to do a few times is adjust the number of tiers because too many were getting bunched up at one level.

 

If that can be addressed with the various brands preemptively and before launch that would be the best case scenario

[Globaliser]

These questions properly would have arisen at the time that Carnival acquired these cruise lines. The establishment of a common loyalty scheme is, frankly, trivial compared with the equity interest.

Equity interest has not had any real impact on the competition between the brands, which is what the regulator would be concerned about. A single company which controls 42-44% of the market would certainly attract interest, and the strategy of effectively maintaining competition between the brands must have had an impact on the regulators' views on this.

We have almost 20 years of interlinked loyalty programs with three large networks of air carriers. If these schemes do not offend anti-trust and combines law (and they are vastly more sophisticated, and involve considerably larger amounts of money) then it seems to me completely unlikely that a cross brand loyalty marketing scheme within any of the groups of cruise lines will.

None of the big airline groups controls as much as 42% of the market, and these loyalty schemes have certainly been examined by regulators as part of competition clearance procedures involving the alliances. They're not regarded as irrelevant to competition issues, as they clearly aren't.

[niceguyneastbay]

November 19, 2014

 

 

RE: Case 1-570572XXXX

 

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

 

We appreciate your email to Mr. Stein Kruse regarding the fact that Mariner Reward Points are not transferable to our sister cruise lines. After reviewing your comments, Mr. Kruse has asked me to respond on his behalf and to thank you for your feedback.

 

We have been advised by the Director of our Mariner Society that the points you have brought up have been discussed with all of the cruise lines under the umbrella of Carnival Corporation. Currently there is no decision to have one global loyalty program within the Carnival Corporation as all brands need to buy into it and there are a lot of facets to what each brand gives to their loyal guests. While we appreciate your patronage and truly regret your discontent, we trust that you can understand the reasons for this policy.

 

In addition, we do agree with you that our website can be improved.

 

In light of your correspondence, we have registered all of your concerns and Mr. Kruse has also forwarded a copy of your correspondence to the appropriate senior management for their information and review.

 

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide us with your comments. We hope to be given the opportunity to welcome you aboard another of our sailings very soon.

Best regards,

Christine Ferris

Senior Advisor

Office of the President

[RDC1]

The difference is that the big hotel companies typically have something like 5-10% of the market (adding together all their brands). No company has even as much as 20%.

 

In contrast, Carnival's market share is something like 42-44%.

 

The question for regulatory involvement is based upon effective competition. There are several areas, in far more critical areas, than cruise ships that are not regulated, that are down to three major player with large percentages of business. Also when it comes to cruising, it would most likely be considered to be part of the entire travel industry and linked with other vacation options, including hotels, all inclusive resorts, tour companies, when in comes to anti-competitive regulatory issues.

[Pia1913]

November 19, 2014

 

 

RE: Case 1-570572XXXX

 

Dear Mr. Schwartz,

 

We appreciate your email to Mr. Stein Kruse regarding the fact that Mariner Reward Points are not transferable to our sister cruise lines. After reviewing your comments, Mr. Kruse has asked me to respond on his behalf and to thank you for your feedback.

 

We have been advised by the Director of our Mariner Society that the points you have brought up have been discussed with all of the cruise lines under the umbrella of Carnival Corporation. Currently there is no decision to have one global loyalty program within the Carnival Corporation as all brands need to buy into it and there are a lot of facets to what each brand gives to their loyal guests. While we appreciate your patronage and truly regret your discontent, we trust that you can understand the reasons for this policy.

 

In addition, we do agree with you that our website can be improved.

 

In light of your correspondence, we have registered all of your concerns and Mr. Kruse has also forwarded a copy of your correspondence to the appropriate senior management for their information and review.

 

Again, thank you for taking the time to provide us with your comments. We hope to be given the opportunity to welcome you aboard another of our sailings very soon.

Best regards,

Christine Ferris

Senior Advisor

Office of the President

 

Very nice response, though I think it's not what most HAL cruisers wanted to hear. All brands need to agree and thus far none give as much as Princess. Double dip; triple dip; quadruple dip, etc. Princess gives it all. That being said, I'm very happy to say my next cruise is on HAL. :)

[OTOW guy]

and see what they are offering rather than speculating or complaining?

[taxmantoo]

and see what they are offering rather than speculating or complaining?

 

Exactly what I said 23 posts ago ;) Seems like people like to speculate or complain!

[HamOp]

and see what they are offering rather than speculating or complaining?

 

Exactly what I said 23 posts ago ;) Seems like people like to speculate or complain!

 

And just what is the harm in speculaton? It's fun to think of what might be.

 

We're all (well some of us anyway) here to learn and just enjoy the conversation with others with a similar interest; Cruising and Cruise lines.

 

All of our speculation won't change the plans that are made at the corp. level, so what's the harm?

[taxmantoo]

All of our speculation won't change the plans that are made at the corp. level, so what's the harm?

 

No harm at all, if that is what you like. I would rather spend my time on more productive endeavours than speculation.

Edited November 22, 2014 by taxmantoo

[Pia1913]

No harm at all, if that is what you like. I would rather spend my time on more productive endeavours than speculation.

 

Like a glass of wine perhaps? ;)

[SilvertoGold]

No harm at all, if that is what you like. I would rather spend my time on more productive endeavours than speculation.

 

Then you can stop reading this thread because this thread is about speculation and all its permutations and combinations. There are lots of other threads that should suit you, so enjoy them!

 

I agree completely with HamOp.

Edited November 22, 2014 by SilvertoGold

[taxmantoo]

Like a glass of wine perhaps? ;)

 

Absolutely. :D But, then again, I might start speculating about having a second one.