RCCL Suites compared to NCL Suites

[SuiteTraveler]

My husband and I cruise on various cruise lines and enjoy all of them. This is to compare the experience in the NCL Owner's Suite with the experience in an RCCL Owner's Suite. We were on the November 16, 2014 cruise aboard Allure of the Seas in an Owner's Suite. First off, I want to say that we have also been on Oasis of the Seas (in a ocean view balcony) and knew what to expect of the ship in terms of entertainment and restaurants, the pool area and spa. As expected, the Allure did not disappoint in most of these areas.

 

We only ate in the specialty restaurants and at Chef's Table - so we never actually went to the MDR - which is exactly what happened before when we were on Oasis. But everything we had in the specialty restaurants was great! We had room service breakfast from the expanded menu for suite guests since the Allure does not yet have a dining room for suite guests. I went to the buffet one time and found not many options. There was an overwhelming odor of masala spice since there was Indian food on the buffet, which seemed at odds with the others foods up there. It was enough that it would not have been a pleasant experience to eat non-Indian food in the buffet. I wanted a sandwich, but there weren't any, so I wound up getting a hamburger - something I rarely eat. It was OK and I took it back to my suite to escape the smell of the Indian food. Incidentally, I like Indian food and eat it often at home, but I didn't like the smell of it combined with the smell of the other food in the buffet. It was off-putting. That hamburger was the last I saw of the buffet. I suppose I should have just ordered room service.

 

The spa is the one area that I believe needs to be enhanced. There is no thalisotherapy pool or spa hot tub and only unisex steam and sauna rooms. Usually, I will buy a spa pass, but because the facilities were limited to the steam and sauna rooms and a few heated tile loungers, the spa pass was not of interest to me. I think that RCCL is missing out on a lot of revenue by not having an upgraded spa experience that does not require therapists. I would even go so far as to suggest they consider putting in spa hydrotherapy circuit similar to the Spa Grand Terme Hydrotherapy Circuit at the Grand Wailea Resort - which I believe would be of great interest to everyone who enjoys spas. It would be a first at sea and a real "WOW!"

 

Here is a comparison of the suites:

 

Suite:

RCCL's Owner's Suite on the Allure is located midship on the bump. It is large and has a dining room, living room, separate bedroom and step up bathroom with small shower, separate jetted tub, double sinks, toilet and bidet. There are 2 TV's and 1 large balcony with a table and chairs and 2 lounge chairs.

 

NCL's Owner's Suite on Jade is located at the front corner of the ship. It is large and has a dining room, living room, separate bedroom, guest bathroom and master bathroom level with the rest of the suite with a huge shower with rain shower head and body jets and handheld wand, separate tub, double sinks, toilet in a private room. There is a walk in closet and seated makeup area. There are 3 TV's and 2 DVD players and 2 balcony's - one with a table and chairs and the other with 2 lounge chairs. There is a Lavazza coffee maker.

 

So, apart from the DVD players, walk-in closet, more luxurious bathroom plus second bathroom, bath salts and loofah for the tub and Lavazza coffee maker on NCL, the two Owner's Suites are fairly similar. Here's where the similarities end:

 

NCL: On embarkation, you are met by your butler and escorted to your suite. In your suite is a welcome aboard bottle of champagne and a large flower arrangement. You also get 3 bottles of alcohol included with your suite - your choice. There are 2 bathrobes.

 

RCCL: There is no butler. You check in at the suite desk and walk onboard by yourself. There is no welcome aboard champagne nor flowers. You don't get alcohol with your suite. There are 2 bathrobes and you receive pressing complimentary for the first formal night.

 

Muster Drill:

NCL: You are taken via priority elevator by your butler to a specific lounge with all the other suite guests where there is plenty of room to sit down and watch the muster drill video. Afterwards, there is a priority elevator to return you to The Haven.

 

RCCL: We were sent to the lobby of the ship in an area where there was no place to sit and squished together with many other passengers all trying to fit in the same area to watch the "wash your hands" video followed by the muster drill video.

 

Concierge:

NCL: You can book your specialty restaurants and shows ahead of time or wait and have the concierge do it for you. The concierge will make contact with you on show nights and let you know where to meet him/her in order to be taken to seats reserved for suite guests. The concierge will schedule shore excursions as requested.

 

RCCL: You can book your specialty restaurants and shows ahead of time or wait and have the concierge do it for you. The concierge doesn't follow up by taking you to reserved seats, but they are labeled and roped off in some venues so you can find them prior to the show and access them by showing your gold card. The concierge will schedule shore excursions as requested. The only thing I asked of the concierge was to reserve an over-water cabana on Labadee for us and he did this and put us in an excellent location where there was plenty of shade which made for a very enjoyable beach day. Unlike any other beach club we've been to, the onshore service in the Labadee suite guest area only included drink delivery and did not include food delivery to the cabana which is not typical of an all-inclusive beach experience. Instead we had to go to the buffet for food, which was fine. As I got in line behind 4 of the slowest people I've ever witnessed go through a simple buffet line. It was as though they had no idea there were other people waiting in line behind them and it took them at least 5 minutes to go through the first 5 foot stretch of the buffet - which didn't have much on it. In the meantime, my husband saved a table for us in the shade as a huge line developed behind me, (much of the line due to the slowness of the 4 people ahead of me) so I grabbed 2 plates and quickly got food for both of us so we could eat at the same time and my husband wouldn't get stuck waiting in a slow line. But the thing is, we paid $250 for the over water cabana for the day. Shouldn't we have received food delivery from our cabana attendant instead of having to go through a line? I get that it's a buffet - but the cabana attendant could have brought us a menu to pick from and filled the plates and brought them back to us. Really it would not be all that hard, there were only about 15 items on the buffet anyway. Wouldn't that help the cabana attendant to get larger tips? Other than this, the area for suite guests on Labadee was very nice and except for not having food delivery, we were pleased with the whole day.

 

Butler:

NCL: The Butler handles all of your room service special requests, can draw a specialty bath for you or throw a party in your suite. The butler drops off snacks each afternoon. The ability of the butler to throw a party in your suite is very helpful as he/she knows what works best and can put a party together for you at a moment's notice and without you having to figure out what to order. The butler will serve drinks at your party if he/she has time. Room service items are picked up promptly after use.

RCCL: There is no Butler. You put your room service tray outside your room for the to pick up on their regularly scheduled rounds.

 

NCL onboard Suite Guest areas: There is a separate restaurant for people cruising in suites for breakfast and lunch (and dinner as well as a bar for suite guest on Epic and newer ships.) The Haven includes a private pool area for Suite guests only, large sun deck, exercise room, steam room and snacks throughout the day. All suite guests receive afternoon snacks from their butler.

 

RCCL onboard Suite Guest areas: There is a concierge lounge which is shared by frequent RCCL cruisers that offers free cocktails and snacks from 5pm until 8pm. Unfortunately this proved to be an over-crowded and disappointing experience. I cannot stress enough how bad the chardonnay they had to serve was. The terrible chardonnay and the over crowded lounge completely turned my husband off the concierge lounge experience and he would not go back again. My understanding is that RCCL is working on correcting this situation and they are going to add in a restaurant and bar for suite guests when Allure goes through dry dock in May 2015 as well as a lounge for their frequent guests. However, this still leaves the suite guests without a "Haven" pool area and sun deck.

 

Disembarkation: If you choose to walk off, the NCL Concierge will meet you that morning and walk you off the ship to the taxis using priority elevators.

 

If you choose to walk off on RCCL, the concierge just tells you what floor to go to and how early to be there in order to walk off before a line forms. It works out fine, but lacks any personal touch or the opportunity for a positive last impression that could be made with the suite guests.

 

So overall, what I can say about RCCL compared to NCL is that RCCL is headed in the right direction with the upgrades they are adding such as the restaurant and lounge for suite guests, but they are not doing as much as they could be and more importantly should be doing in terms of hands on customer service and amenities for suite guests. We love Allure and Oasis, but RCCL really needs to add a "Haven" type area to their ships for suite passengers to enjoy and they need to add amenities to make people want to book an Owner's Suite over a Grand Suite. The suite amenities should be tiered by class of suite. I look forward to trying Oasis now that she has been through dry-dock to see how the new lounge and restaurant are for suite guests, but considering that Owner's Suite guests are not currently treated any differently than Grand Suite guests, I'll be booking a Grand Suite.

 

Allure AND Oasis are amazing ships. I look forward to cruising them again and the Quantum class ships as well. What I hope is that my comparison will be of help to RCCL in figuring out how to enhance their suite experience and differentiate between levels of suites with amenities.

 

Finally, I want to add a note about decor. One of the things I really enjoy about the NCL ships is that the suites are decorated differently from ship to ship. It might be the same furniture, but the color schemes are different. RCCL has adopted the exact same decor across all ships. I think this actually detracts from the cruise experience as it is hard to differentiate by memory between one ship and another. The differences in suite decor on NCL makes each ship special and unique. I know the Jade's suites are fuchsia and green and on the Epic, they are in shades of green and brown and on the Getaway, brown and beige. IMO, even if the furniture is the same, it is wise to vary the colors in the suites by ship so that each experience is a unique memory. When people are able to cruise what they are looking for is a unique experience and to make memories from these experiences. That is hard to do if every suite and cabin is the same as every other suite and cabin on every ship as they all blur together.

[MADflyer]

Thank you for this very comprehensive and detailed review of suites on two of my favorite lines.

 

This is an exciting time for suite guests that now choose the Quantum and Oasis class ships with the addition of the Coastal Kitchen suite restaurant and the new Suite Lounge. These compliment the specialty and varied complimentary venues, that now have all of their menus available for in-suite dining.

 

They are adapting the suites on Oasis class and moving and adding some new suites. RCI did choose new decorators for the Quantum class moving away from their long-standing relationships they had used on all vessels prior to Oasis and it was clear to some extent that the Owner and Grand Suites even on the re-vitalized ships in the fleet like Vision, were designed and decorated with a new updated style, while they did keep the standard cabins and junior suites pretty much the same style.

[cruzsnooze]

You sound like you're ready to move to a more upscale and smaller cruise line like Azamara, Regent, or Crystal, very high maintenance. I don't use the butler and find the position a waste. You sound like you don't want to mingle with other passengers which is something many of us enjoy. The Haven is a ship within a ship , back to the days of classes. I personally don't like the concept of the Haven on NCL but like the non haven suites.

Edited December 10, 2014 by cruzsnooze

[paul1268]

Agree with the OP. The suite life on NCL is amazing. The only advantage we have experienced on RCCL are the free drinks in a crowded lounge. Between the butler and concierge on NCL, there is no such word as no. Even a phone you can take with you around the ship if you want to contact them. Sorry.

[PuterMonkey]

I have been reading through reviews of the Breakaway on the NCL board since we've been considering trying her, and was really surprised at first with how distinct the suite-level Haven area felt from the rest of the ship. I don't know if that's a new area on that class of ship or not, but I do have a feeling it's the future. (I think it looks beautiful, for the record, even if I can't afford to sail it yet). You don't mention a price comparison of the two suites, which in my mind would affect my expectations, but I do think RCI is trying to move in this direction as well.

 

Yes, there are some more upscale lines out there, but they also tend to be smaller and don't necessarily have as wide a range of itineraries to choose from. I think the more mass market lines are smart to be pursuing the upscale suite environment, even though I mourn the loss of the Viking Crown at the same time.

[SuiteTraveler]

Thank you for this very comprehensive and detailed review of suites on two of my favorite lines.

 

This is an exciting time for suite guests that now choose the Quantum and Oasis class ships with the addition of the Coastal Kitchen suite restaurant and the new Suite Lounge. These compliment the specialty and varied complimentary venues, that now have all of their menus available for in-suite dining.

 

They are adapting the suites on Oasis class and moving and adding some new suites. RCI did choose new decorators for the Quantum class moving away from their long-standing relationships they had used on all vessels prior to Oasis and it was clear to some extent that the Owner and Grand Suites even on the re-vitalized ships in the fleet like Vision, were designed and decorated with a new updated style, while they did keep the standard cabins and junior suites pretty much the same style.

 

I totally agree - this is such an exciting time for cruise ships and RCCL and NCL are my favorites, too for their great restaurants and entertainment! We are so lucky to be able to experience this type of cruise travel! Even just 50 years ago, no one could have conceived of what cruising has become. It's phenomenal!

[CaribSailor]

Thanks for this review! We have been considering the jump to NCL. We did just experience the new SL and CK on oasis and liked it but seems like NCL has the suite life right.

 

 

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[JasonV1]

I loved the Haven on the Getaway this past summer. When Royal announced the changes on Oasis that are targeted to suite guests it was obvious to me that they were trying to recreate some of the NCL suite experience on their ships.

 

Unfortunately the reason why NCL needs the Haven is because they have nothing like the Solarium (sorry Vibe beach club, no pool, limited guest count, small area). The Getaway is lacking in pool space and the deck becomes a zoo when busy (yes I realize that the waterslides and rope course are one reason for this).

 

The Haven is isolated, but it isn't like you don't get to interact with other guests. I would say that you get to know them much better than you could on a crazy pool deck as the courtyard is ideal for that. Add to that 24 hour hot tubs in the Haven courtyard, near constant bar waiter service, a private dining (tables in courtyard, plus a dedicated restaurant), and a private bar. It was quite possibly the most relaxing cruise vacation I've ever had. My perfect day was an hour or so on the water slides and rope course, following by a relaxing afternoon in the Haven.

 

While I sail mostly Royal, I can definitely see returning to the Haven for special occasions like my 20 year wedding anniversary in 2017 (or amazing sales). The prices are just too crazy to do it more often than that, plus I have no desire to sail in a non-Haven cabin on any NCL ship unless the itinerary is unique.

[Debde]

Loved this review!!! Thank you. Have had my eye on a Breakaway sailing and can not wait to try NCL!! This work thing keeps getting in the way!!!;)

[SuiteTraveler]

I have been reading through reviews of the Breakaway on the NCL board since we've been considering trying her, and was really surprised at first with how distinct the suite-level Haven area felt from the rest of the ship. I don't know if that's a new area on that class of ship or not, but I do have a feeling it's the future. (I think it looks beautiful, for the record, even if I can't afford to sail it yet). You don't mention a price comparison of the two suites, which in my mind would affect my expectations, but I do think RCI is trying to move in this direction as well.

 

Yes, there are some more upscale lines out there, but they also tend to be smaller and don't necessarily have as wide a range of itineraries to choose from. I think the more mass market lines are smart to be pursuing the upscale suite environment, even though I mourn the loss of the Viking Crown at the same time.

 

The Haven first appeared on the NCL Gem Class ships in 2005.

http://www.beyondships2.com/ncl-luxury-cruising-page-2.html

On the Gem Class ships the Haven is very small and feels extremely special - like being on a private yacht. On Epic, the Haven is much larger, but they have retained a special feel to the area. I'm not sure how much larger it can get and still stay that way, though.

 

About the pricing...I'm a major deal stalker and never pay full price for anything. I got the Owner's Suite on Allure for 50% off for two which is similar to what I am paying for two in a Spa Suite on the Getaway in May. Interestingly enough, the Getaway Spa Suite is $100 less expensive than Penthouse suites in the Haven, but includes Spa access, which you don't get with the other suites and you still get full Haven access. So...it seems to me that the Spa Suites are the BEST deal available on NCL's largest ships since the only alternative to get the same range of amenities and services would be to pay more for a suite and then also pay for Spa passes unless you get an upgrade - which has happened. I also got a upgrade from penthouse to villa on the Jade and upgrade to the Owner's Suite on the Jade at very low prices. On Celebrity, my deal stalking led me to the 2 bedroom family verandah - which is the second largest stateroom in terms of square feet on the ship for just $300 more than I paid for the verandah stateroom which for a 13 day cruise was wonderful to have the extra space! I had considered upgrading to a Sky Suite but it was very expensive for our cruise, so I was thrilled to get the much larger 2 bedroom family verandah so reasonably.

 

BTW, I think that RCCL ought to continue to have a lounge for their frequent guests. This is just another way that RCCL should connect with even more of their guests via amenities and service.

[SuiteTraveler]

You sound like you're ready to move to a more upscale and smaller cruise line like Azamara, Regent, or Crystal, very high maintenance. I don't use the butler and find the position a waste. You sound like you don't want to mingle with other passengers which is something many of us enjoy. The Haven is a ship within a ship , back to the days of classes. I personally don't like the concept of the Haven on NCL but like the non haven suites.

 

Why the personal attack? I'm just comparing the Owner's Suite experience on two different cruise lines. How does a personal attack help in that comparison? BTW, the Owner's Suite on NCL Jade is NOT in The Haven, but gets Haven access.

[George C]

I dislike NCL in general but suite perks do sound great, thanks for info and comparison. Would like to see separate dinning room on RCCL for suite

[SuiteTraveler]

I loved the Haven on the Getaway this past summer. When Royal announced the changes on Oasis that are targeted to suite guests it was obvious to me that they were trying to recreate some of the NCL suite experience on their ships.

 

Unfortunately the reason why NCL needs the Haven is because they have nothing like the Solarium (sorry Vibe beach club, no pool, limited guest count, small area). The Getaway is lacking in pool space and the deck becomes a zoo when busy (yes I realize that the waterslides and rope course are one reason for this).

 

The Haven is isolated, but it isn't like you don't get to interact with other guests. I would say that you get to know them much better than you could on a crazy pool deck as the courtyard is ideal for that. Add to that 24 hour hot tubs in the Haven courtyard, near constant bar waiter service, a private dining (tables in courtyard, plus a dedicated restaurant), and a private bar. It was quite possibly the most relaxing cruise vacation I've ever had. My perfect day was an hour or so on the water slides and rope course, following by a relaxing afternoon in the Haven.

 

While I sail mostly Royal, I can definitely see returning to the Haven for special occasions like my 20 year wedding anniversary in 2017 (or amazing sales). The prices are just too crazy to do it more often than that, plus I have no desire to sail in a non-Haven cabin on any NCL ship unless the itinerary is unique.

 

From our experience on the Epic, I think that the NCL Spa is more similar to the Solarium on RCCL - only way better since the spa is much less crowded and the water features are intense. This area also had an ocean view and great relaxation areas.

 

Honestly, I like both RCCL and NCL. I think I've sailed both an equal number of times. This was our first experience in an RCCL suite.

[SuiteTraveler]

I dislike NCL in general but suite perks do sound great, thanks for info and comparison. Would like to see separate dinning room on RCCL for suite

 

You're welcome. I think I like both NCL and RCCL equally overall, but definitely prefer the overall suite experience on NCL. Still I wouldn't hesitate to cruise RCCL for the right itinerary or the amazing ships (Oasis class and newer). Like everything in life, I think both lines have their pros and cons. What I really like is the expanded attractions onboard these new and innovative ships. If they are this amazing now, what will they be like 10 years from now? I keep thinking how lucky we all are to be able to experience these ships.

[SuiteTraveler]

Loved this review!!! Thank you. Have had my eye on a Breakaway sailing and can not wait to try NCL!! This work thing keeps getting in the way!!!;)

 

Oh yeah...work. Same here. But when I do get free, I LOVE to try new cruise ships!

[CaribSailor]

I dislike NCL in general but suite perks do sound great, thanks for info and comparison. Would like to see separate dinning room on RCCL for suite

 

 

There is on oasis.. Coastal kitchen and it is great.

 

 

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[CubsFanRS23]

Just got off Quantum, was in a Grand Suite. Coastal Kitchen was awesome and the only time it felt even remotely "busy" was a couple of times at dinner. There's a "Suite Sun Deck" as well. Small but overlooks the outdoor pool. There are two entrances, one that requires your card, the other doesn't -- I expect they'll fix that over time when people start to complain about non-suite guests using. They also added a shower on our 2nd to last day. It's not near the pool or a hot tub so I'm guess it's for folks that get hot and want to cool off.

 

The concierge was great, never felt like we had to wait for anything. I think I like the idea of the butler is great though and we are seriously contemplating Getaway for our next cruise just to compare as we love the idea of The Haven -- and NCL is doing a great promo right now with including Dining & Beverage packages when you book a suite.

 

Thanks for the thorough comparison!!

[Cruise a holic]

Thank you for this very comprehensive and detailed review of suites on two of my favorite lines.

 

This is an exciting time for suite guests that now choose the Quantum and Oasis class ships with the addition of the Coastal Kitchen suite restaurant and the new Suite Lounge. These compliment the specialty and varied complimentary venues, that now have all of their menus available for in-suite dining.

 

They are adapting the suites on Oasis class and moving and adding some new suites. RCI did choose new decorators for the Quantum class moving away from their long-standing relationships they had used on all vessels prior to Oasis and it was clear to some extent that the Owner and Grand Suites even on the re-vitalized ships in the fleet like Vision, were designed and decorated with a new updated style, while they did keep the standard cabins and junior suites pretty much the same style.

 

Have sailed on the Quantum, and perhaps one of the best features of the ship for Suite guests is the suite lounge- two concierge reps sit at a desk and help facilitate many reservations for grand suite and above guest. Also a special suite line for priority seating at all shows-so really reservations not necessary. The lounge serves various snacks during the day, and alcohol (free) during the evening-waiter service. They also help with reservations for cabanas and salon services. They have the suite restaurant Costal Kitchen, which is wonderful as the ship is horrible crowded and even the specialty restaurants make you wait- sometimes 1/2 hour with a reservation-no suite priority. My only negative comment is that the Costal Kitchen menu remains the same for the entire cruise. But so much better then fighting for a place to sit at the buffet. The pools are very crowded, so no haven area- you have to fight for your seat around the pools like everyone else! We are truly looking forward to our first NCL Breakaway Haven experience in a few weeks.

Edited May 13, 2015 by Cruise a holic

[John&LaLa]

Have sailed on the Quantum, and perhaps one of the best features of the ship for Suite guests is the suite lounge- two concierge reps sit at a desk and help facilitate many reservations for grand suite and above guest. Also a special suite line for priority seating at all shows-so really reservations not necessary. The lounge serves various snacks during the day, and alcohol (free) during the evening-waiter service. They also help with reservations for cabanas and salon services. They have the suite restaurant Costal Kitchen, which is wonderful as the ship is horrible crowded and even the specialty restaurants make you wait- sometimes 1/2 hour with a reservation-no suite priority. My only negative comment is that the Costal Kitchen menu remains the same for the entire cruise. But so much better then fighting for a place to sit at the buffet. The pools are very crowded, so no haven area- you have to fight for your seat around the pools like everyone else! We are truly looking forward to our first NCL Breakaway Haven experience in a few weeks.

 

On Oasis, CK menu changed after 4 days. Personally, I preferred the first menu.

[mgdsld]

Does this mean there is no reserved seating around the pool for suite guests on Anthem and Quantum like there used to be on Independence?

[Debde]

We are truly looking forward to our first NCL Breakaway Haven experience in a few weeks.

 

I have to wait until December. :(

[John&LaLa]

Does this mean there is no reserved seating around the pool for suite guests on Anthem and Quantum like there used to be on Independence?

 

Isn't it above sky bar on Freedom ships? Voyagers had a pool area

[DebJ14]

Thank you for this comparison. We've got a GS on the Liberty coming up followed by a 2 bedroom villa in the Haven on the NCL Jade 60 days later. It will be interesting to compare the two.

 

So far this year we've done a PH suite on Princess in January and we just did an MSC Divina Yacht Club sailing last month. We enjoyed the Princess with breakfast at Sabatini's being the highlight, but really very few other perks. We were totally wowed by the inclusions and service on the MSC Divina sailing. All drinks are included in the YC, Butler service was fantastic, on tours the butler actually took us all the way to the bus, complimentary mini bar restocked twice daily, private restaurant for breakfast, lunch and dinner, complimentary wines at lunch and dinner, private pool, sundeck and hot tubs and private bar/grill at the pool. Sounds like the Haven on steroids.

 

Our haven experience should be similar to the Yacht Club since we have the ultimate dining and beverage package so we won't be shelling out for drinks. But, even with first class airfare to Miami the MSC Yacht Club was $700+ cheaper than the Jade. We don't need air for the Jade.

Edited May 13, 2015 by DebJ14

[jules815]

"So, apart from the DVD players, walk-in closet, more luxurious bathroom plus second bathroom, bath salts and loofah for the tub and Lavazza coffee maker on NCL, the two Owner's Suites are fairly similar."

 

We've booked an OS on FOS for two weeks in September, and all I'm hoping for are cushions on our loungers! :eek:

[jules815]

Agree with the OP. The suite life on NCL is amazing. The only advantage we have experienced on RCCL are the free drinks in a crowded lounge. Between the butler and concierge on NCL, there is no such word as no. Even a phone you can take with you around the ship if you want to contact them. Sorry.

 

I'm very interested in checking out a Haven suite someday. The only thing that worries me is the Haven courtyard area pool seems very small. I'm sure for taking a dip to cool off it's fine, but are children allowed in this area? I'm not anti-children, but if I've paid for a "haven", how do they address this here? Are children allowed in the hot tubs as well?