daily service charge

[LMaxwell]

You're playing semantics here. When I said base fare, I meant the charges would appear before you board, not after so no one is surprised.

 

I don't feel disgust for cruiselines. I just meant the same people who show disgust for their fellow passengers is hypocritical for blindly accepting corporate policies.

 

So as long as every business do it, it makes it right?

He doesn't like people having a say in others pay because he earns his living off tax payer dollars.

[luddite]

You're playing semantics here. When I said base fare, I meant the charges would appear before you board, not after so no one is surprised.

 

I don't feel disgust for cruiselines. I just meant the same people who show disgust for their fellow passengers is hypocritical for blindly accepting corporate policies.

 

So as long as every business do it, it makes it right?

 

No.

The DSC isn't a secret. Worst case scenario for people who genuinely stupid and unaware of their surroundings----it can surprise them ONCE. And that actually isn't an acceptable excuse.

 

It is an unadvertised part of the fare.

[SJ]

No.

The DSC isn't a secret. Worst case scenario for people who genuinely stupid and unaware of their surroundings----it can surprise them ONCE. And that actually isn't an acceptable excuse.

 

It is an unadvertised part of the fare.

 

It is because it's UNadvertised, it can surprise many first timers. I experienced this first hand on the BreakawAy last December as many non English speaking passengers asked me to translate and explain the charges to them.

 

Do you think businesses prefer stupid, as you put it, consumers or educated consumers? Do you think consumer protection agency exists to only protect educated consumers or does it include protecting non educated or uninformed consumers regardless of whose fault it is?

Edited February 19, 2015 by SJ

[hpecorari]

It is because it's UNadvertised, it can surprise many first timers. I experienced this first hand on the BreakawAy last December as many non English speaking passengers asked me to translate and explain the charges to them.

 

Do you think businesses prefer stupid, as you put it, consumers or educated consumers? Do you think consumer protection agency exists to only protect educated consumers or does it include protecting non educated or uninformed consumers regardless of whose fault it is?

 

On the 2nd page of your cruise confirmation it talks about the Onboard Service Charges, as they call it. If one reads their confirmation after receiving it they are aware. At that time they can always cancel their cruise and get a refund.

 

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.....as everyone should always read their confirmation/contract with NCL.

 

Harriet

[LMaxwell]

On the 2nd page of your cruise confirmation it talks about the Onboard Service Charges, as they call it. If one reads their confirmation after receiving it they are aware. At that time they can always cancel their cruise and get a refund.

 

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.....as everyone should always read their confirmation/contract with NCL.

 

Harriet

They don't tell you about it when booking...

[SJ]

On the 2nd page of your cruise confirmation it talks about the Onboard Service Charges, as they call it. If one reads their confirmation after receiving it they are aware. At that time they can always cancel their cruise and get a refund.

 

It shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.....as everyone should always read their confirmation/contract with NCL.

 

Harriet

 

I agree everyone should be informed but thats not reality. What is very obvious to those who read these boards may not be to others. I find booking a cruise is very simple but for some of my friends, not so simple. The passengers i encountered were seniors who didnt speak english and it was obvious they didn't get the message about the dsc.

[ray8905]

Is the daily service charge the same as tips? I was talking to someone I booked with at PriceLine and they said it was an automatic charge and were not sure if it could be removed. On all of our prior cruises we've been able to take off that charge and tip in person or change the amount we're charged. Can you still do that?

 

Personally I think you should pay the DSC because it covers a lot of people you may not personally interact with or be able to tip directly such as busers, buffet staff, pool assistants, etc. I think if you get great service from an individual you should simply reward them with a little extra. Seems like cutting out the DSC simply hurts a lot of people that are working hard for everyone.

[njhorseman]

For sake of argument, if I can't trust something NCL directly communicated to me why should I trust a different communication from the company?

 

Also since you DO seem relatively well versed on policies please direct me to any policy saying if someone removes DSC and a worker is tipped cash directly the have to turn it in. People here claim both yes and no to that, and each side does it with certainty. Both can't be right.

 

I would suggest you consider the fact that the guest ticket contract is just what it says...the contract that governs your relationship with the company. Obviously it's developed by NCL's lawyers to say exactly what the company intends it to say. Website FAQs, because they explain company policies and supplement the contractual wording presumably are also approved by the lawyers. I can guarantee that every email sent by NCL doesn't undergo that type of scrutiny.

 

If you think the service charge is the same as a gratuity please explain to me why you are permitted to pay gratuities from nonrefundable OBC given to you by NCL, but you are not permitted to pay the daily service charges out of nonrefundable OBC.

 

I can't say with absolute certainty whether NCL has a formal policy that forces the crew to turn in cash tips, as I certainly don't have access to their personnel policy handbook , but there is at least some written evidence that suggests it does not have such a policy...the tipping (gratuity) FAQ on the website. It starts with the following:

 

What about Tipping?

Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

 

Please explain why the staff "are permitted to accept cash gratuities" for exceptional service if they are at the same time required to turn it in to be pooled? Forcing them to turn in cash tips fails the common sense sniff test in light of the FAQ. Further, how can NCL force crew to turn over cash tips they may have received? How would they know who received tips and how much they received?

Edited February 19, 2015 by njhorseman

[LMaxwell]

I would suggest you consider the fact that the guest ticket contract is just what it says...the contract that governs your relationship with the company. Obviously it's developed by NCL's lawyers to say exactly what the company intends it to say. Website FAQs, because they explain company policies and supplement the contractual wording presumably are also approved by the lawyers. I can guarantee that every email sent by NCL doesn't undergo that type of scrutiny.

 

If you think the service charge is the same as a gratuity please explain to me why you are permitted to pay gratuities from nonrefundable OBC given to you by NCL, but you are not permitted to pay the daily service charges out of nonrefundable OBC.

 

I can't say with absolute certainty whether NCL has a formal policy that forces the crew to turn in cash tips, as I certainly don't have access to their personnel policy handbook , but there is at least some written evidence that suggests it does not have such a policy...the tipping (gratuity) FAQ on the website. It starts with the following:

 

What about Tipping?

Guests should not feel obliged to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to "go the extra mile," and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

 

Please explain why the staff "are permitted to accept cash gratuities" for exceptional service if they are at the same time required to turn it in to be pooled? Forcing them to turn in cash tips fails the common sense sniff test in light of the FAQ. Further, how can NCL force crew to turn over cash tips they may have received? How would they know who received tips and how much they received?

I appreciate your response. It is well reasoned.

[njhorseman]

I appreciate your response. It is well reasoned.

 

Thank you for saying that.

[sparks1093]

It's difficult for any organization even the IRS to track cash tips so I very much doubt anyone who relies on tips for a living is reporting it all. I would be amazed if cruiselines know exactly how much cash tips someone received from passengers. Are there hidden cameras in every cabin or something? If a crew tells the passengers they have to turn it in, wouldn't that discourage you from removing the dsc? Isn't that what all the crew want, for you not to remove dsc so they get even more? Therefore, its in the interest of the crew to say they must turn it in whether it's true or not. The crew is very hard working and no fool.

 

As for the bellhop, his job is not worth $50k plus in salary so tips are the incentive for anyone to want that job. But it is a position that is in direct contact with the consumers so most would not object to tipping him just like most passengers are not opposed to tipping the waiters and stewards in addition to their fare. The objection comes from those we do not see or should be salaried employees like guest services or the entertainment staff or their incentive programs from Ncl.

 

The IRS doesn't affect most ship's crew but they have formulae for calculating the amount of tips that are received and that is the amount they expect the employer to withhold from. So for a land based server they are taxed as if everyone is leaving 15% for the meals that they served whether or not those tips were actually left. There is some wiggle room of course and my faith in human nature tells me that indeed some tipped employees do under report what they make.

 

I don't know if I've mentioned it in this thread or not, but in many establishments that operate on tips there are tipped out staff involved- so you give your tip to your waiter who in turn tips out to those that helped him serve you, people that didn't necessarily meet you but nonetheless were critical in serving your meal. Onboard ship is no different.

 

Everyone onboard a ship has more than their primary job, it's the nature of the work environment. Many frontline guest services staff and shipboard entertainment staff (not headliners) will be tasked with moving luggage on embarkation day or disembarkation day, or they will be tasked with working at the buffet helping passengers and bussing tables, or they will be tasked with greeting people on embarkation day and helping them with directions, or they will be tasked with helping in a dining room at breakfast or lunch, or any number of small tasks that always need to be done. Their salary is paid to them for their main job and when they are tasked with that extra work they receive a small share of the service charge (or tips if on another cruise line) to compensate them for the extra work.

 

The lion's share of the service charge goes to your steward and the wait staff, just as it does on other cruise lines with a smaller portion being given to those who provide support to those positions. I've asked the question before, I'll ask it again- just how far do you think $12.95 a day per person stretches?

[luddite]

It is because it's UNadvertised, it can surprise many first timers. I experienced this first hand on the BreakawAy last December as many non English speaking passengers asked me to translate and explain the charges to them.

 

Do you think businesses prefer stupid, as you put it, consumers or educated consumers? Do you think consumer protection agency exists to only protect educated consumers or does it include protecting non educated or uninformed consumers regardless of whose fault it is?

 

So we're clear----you were blindsided by the DSC on your first cruise?

And you have an idea for making things better?

Huh.

[cruzsnooze]

The comparison to US land based tipping is comparing apples to oranges. Land based workers here do not have room and board, medical, airfare to and from work and laundry. Most crew earn SIGNIFICANTLY more working on a cruise ship then at home. These jobs are sought after, why do you think? They are not underpaid, they are earning a fortune when they send it home so why the pity party for them?

Tipping is personal and everybody is entitled to do it as they see fit. Those that tip less are balanced out by those that tip extra so it all works out. If the system was broken then the crew wouldn't fight to get and keep these jobs.

It's my opinion (which I'm entitled to) that the cruise lines have pushed the burden of wages of their staff onto the passengers. We are part of the problem until we become part of the solution.

Edited February 19, 2015 by cruzsnooze

[sparks1093]

The comparison to US land based tipping is comparing apples to oranges. Land based workers here do not have room and board, medical, airfare to and from work and laundry. Most crew earn SIGNIFICANTLY more working on a cruise ship then at home. These jobs are sought after, why do you think? They are not underpaid, they are earning a fortune when they send it home so why the pity party for them?

Tipping is personal and everybody is entitled to do it as they see fit. Those that tip less are balanced out by those that tip extra so it all works out. If the system was broken then the crew wouldn't fight to get and keep these jobs.

It's my opinion (which I'm entitled to) that the cruise lines have pushed the burden of wages of their staff onto the passengers. We are part of the problem until we become part of the solution.

 

I don't feel sorry for them, but they are worth every penny that they earn. Removing or adjusting the service charge in protest only hurts the workers, it doesn't affect corporate at all. (And I also generally don't consider what the worker is making when leaving a tip- if they have earned a tip then they've earned at least the recommended amount.)

[Beaver1975]

I don't feel sorry for them, but they are worth every penny that they earn. Removing or adjusting the service charge in protest only hurts the workers, it doesn't affect corporate at all. (And I also generally don't consider what the worker is making when leaving a tip- if they have earned a tip then they've earned at least the recommended amount.)

 

Does your head hurt from banging it on that stone wall?

[KeithJenner]

It's all a load of nonsense really isn't it.

 

All that these discussions prove is that nobody really knows exactly the situation. We don't know what NCL does with the money. We don't know whether any cash tips should be (and are being) pooled. People can't even agree whether this DSC is a service charge, tip, gratuity or whatever. However, people are making big stands, making decisions which affect other peoples income, and regularly getting into arguments about these things.

 

There are however a couple of things that I do know for certain. They are:

 

NCL set a DSC which I know when I book (or if they subsequently increase it there is the option to fix in at the old rate). I voluntarily booked cruises in the knowledge of that charge.

 

NCLs staff have applied for jobs with NCL in the knowledge that NCL make this charge and their wages are affected by it. Those staff from before the days of the DSC have had the opportunity to leave if they didn't like it.

 

Those two things are all I need to know. I booked knowing the company I booked with make this charge, and the employees who benefit from it took the employment also in the knowledge of the charge. That will do for me just as I'm not going to start worrying about how the staff from the many other companies I deal with get paid.

 

I'll just pay the DSC and move on because, quite frankly, all this upset that it seems to cause many people just isn't worth it.

Edited February 19, 2015 by KeithJenner

[sparks1093]

Does your head hurt from banging it on that stone wall?

 

I have teenagers, this is good practice;).

[Va. Plumber]

This horse is dead and bleeding beside the road!

[SteveH2508]

Just to add (stir the pot), on the Jade we saw that any cash tips we gave at one of the bars went into a box by the till. Read into that what you like...

[SJ]

So we're clear----you were blindsided by the DSC on your first cruise?

And you have an idea for making things better?

Huh.

 

I don't recall saying I was surprised by any dsc or tips. My first cruise was 20 years ago and I was fully aware of the suggested tips for my steward and waitstaff. Never tipped the sommelier which still existed back then and I never tipped the maitre'd since he usually only comes by my table on the last evening. I gave more than the suggested amount when I received exceptional service and reduce when I receive below standard service(once in 18 cruises). I am sure most would agree that's acceptable.

 

I have no problem paying the staff who serve me. I only questioned to what extent will we have to supplement crew wages if we continue to pay increases to the dsc to include other personnel without at least questioning it.

 

It's your prerogative to tip guest services or the entertainment onboard, maybe someday the officers, but I don't have to agree. I don't judge those who tip excessively or those who under tip in your opinion. It is a personal choice.

Edited February 19, 2015 by SJ

[Out to sea!]

You're playing semantics here. When I said base fare, I meant the charges would appear before you board, not after so no one is surprised.

 

I don't feel disgust for cruiselines. I just meant the same people who show disgust for their fellow passengers is hypocritical for blindly accepting corporate policies.

 

So as long as every business do it, it makes it right?

 

If using the proper terminology is semantics, so be it.

 

If people would actually read the website (cruise line or TA's) there would be no surprises. Any surprises are the fault of the customer who fails to ask questions or read the words in front of them.

[sjbdtz]

In my original post I questioned just how far do we as consumers must accept supplementing the crew's salary in addition to the fares we already pay.

 

True it matters little when we pay the expenses of a cruiseline like the salary of the crew whether at final payment or thru the DSC onboard. This marketing strategy is a little deceptive especially for those who doesn't know it can be adjusted or that gratuities is mentioned in NCL literature as a separate item from the DSC leading some to believe you need to tip in addition.

 

Gratuities are mentioned....by saying they're not required.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Most crew earn SIGNIFICANTLY more working on a cruise ship then at home. These jobs are sought after, why do you think? They are not underpaid, they are earning a fortune when they send it home so why the pity party for them?

 

It's my opinion (which I'm entitled to) that the cruise lines have pushed the burden of wages of their staff onto the passengers. We are part of the problem until we become part of the solution.

 

a) They're good jobs WHEN people keep their DSC in place. Otherwise they could earn as little as $50 / MONTH!

 

 

b) You're entitled to your opinion. Here's a fact to accompany it: Passengers pay ALL of the cruiseline's operating expenses including the burden of ALL their wages.

 

This is the same at your bank, mall, restaurant, and any other business. None of them operate on the premise that service is free....unless it's a non-profit run by volunteers.

 

 

.

[luddite]

The comparison to US land based tipping is comparing apples to oranges. Land based workers here do not have room and board, medical, airfare to and from work and laundry. Most crew earn SIGNIFICANTLY more working on a cruise ship then at home. These jobs are sought after, why do you think? They are not underpaid, they are earning a fortune when they send it home so why the pity party for them?

Tipping is personal and everybody is entitled to do it as they see fit. Those that tip less are balanced out by those that tip extra so it all works out. If the system was broken then the crew wouldn't fight to get and keep these jobs.

It's my opinion (which I'm entitled to) that the cruise lines have pushed the burden of wages of their staff onto the passengers. We are part of the problem until we become part of the solution.

 

You don't understand that in EVERY business situation that customers pay EVERYTHING? That includes salaries, taxes, fees, and any other items.

You're OK with someone being a piker and not paying their obligations in the hope that other passengers will take up the slack?

 

No wonder the country is doomed.

[luddite]

I don't recall saying I was surprised by any dsc or tips. My first cruise was 20 years ago and I was fully aware of the suggested tips for my steward and waitstaff. Never tipped the sommelier which still existed back then and I never tipped the maitre'd since he usually only comes by my table on the last evening. I gave more than the suggested amount when I received exceptional service and reduce when I receive below standard service(once in 18 cruises). I am sure most would agree that's acceptable.

 

I have no problem paying the staff who serve me. I only questioned to what extent will we have to supplement crew wages if we continue to pay increases to the dsc to include other personnel without at least questioning it.

 

It's your prerogative to tip guest services or the entertainment onboard, maybe someday the officers, but I don't have to agree. I don't judge those who tip excessively or those who under tip in your opinion. It is a personal choice.

 

So..... no real clue.

[swedish weave]

All the fussing and arguing over this subject is rather silly.

 

You have many options and are free to do as you choose, so why not "JUST DO IT" as Nike says.

 

You can adjust the DSC.

You can tip cash.

You can find a cruise line that charges the amount you feel is fair.

You can stay home !!!!