NEW Suite Upgrades....

[LMaxwell]

Thank you for the compliment, most people just call me 'crazy for thinking the way I do'.

 

Hey, I resemble that remark. :D

[Paulette3028]

You are absolutely 100% correct. They aren't required to give anyone anything. But they have chosen to. It's not really loyalty or rewards, it's marketing. Offer this, get people to spend more. I think most people recognize this. And as with any marketing promotion, it can last 1 week, it can last 10 years, but it is always subject to change and need not be offered at all.

 

 

 

I don't think feeling disappointed is ridiculous. Something someone had looked forward to is no longer available. Disappointment is a totally natural and normal emotional response. How they react to the changes determines if their response is ridiculous or not. I'm very disappointed with the Viking Crown Lounge becoming a suite exclusive space on some ships, or not being built at all on new ships. It was a signature venue I greatly enjoy. Is that a ridiculous position?

 

My next two bookings are not with RCI, and there will probably be a land vacation in there before another RCI booking as well. I still like the core product overall, though some of the schtick is getting old (because it is repetitive to me; others may feel differently). I'll sail on Royal again based on price and itinerary, but I'd be disingenuous if I said that part of it would not be based on the value of perks at the time of my booking. If those perks diminished between booking and sailing I can certainly be disappointed, as can anyone else, you as well, without it being labeled as ridiculous.

 

Looking at the Loyalty Program as a marketing program is exactly what it is....and companies CHANGE their marketing programs/campaigns all the time -- so why do people feel it should be different in this type of 'marketing program'. If you have cruised often enough and benefited from the higher levels before they changed their parameters.....that was to someone's added enjoyment. I always thought the term 'loyalty' was a poor term to use for the name....simply because it puts into the head of the customer some expectation that the corporation should 'remain as loyal to them as the corporation wants the consumer to be'.

 

The only perk that you can be guaranteed to receive at the time of booking, is whatever 'cash considerations in terms of balcony discounts' you are entitled to at that moment.....everything else, is whatever the program contains when you sail. I don't see why that is such a difficult point of view.

Edited June 15, 2015 by Paulette3028

[mark22mac]

I'm going to make a few assumptions in this post, but they are based on my many years of following these boards.

 

For the past 2-3 cruises, I have considered getting a GS. We normally sail in a standard balcony because I get lucky in my balcony locations (center hump, or aft - which we love). However, it all comes down to price - I could not justify the significant cost delta of the GS. We've sailed in a JS which provided all we were looking for - at a decent cost.

 

I've watched those 2-3 cruises closely on the availability of the GS. It seems that the vast majority 60-75% of the GS are open for booking until the last few months/weeks. Then they disappear. Sure, one or two get taken, but on the limited informal data I have gathered, at least 50-60% of the GS are unbooked until the last few weeks/months. This leads me to believe that they were offered as upgrades to loyality members, or as upsells to JS, etc. Likely meaning that Royal did not get the price they could have, had it been sold early on in the process.

 

So, how to attract GS buyers? Give them tangible perks! Make it worth their while over the JS crowd. I've sailed in a JS, and it was huge - I have a hard time believing anyone except MAYBE a family of 4 would complain about being cramped in a JS. So, it's not the sq footage that drives people to a GS or OS. Yet they are slow to sell.

 

When I was considering the GS, I would have been more serious had it come with tangible perks. So, I think giving GS and above some real serious benefits is OK with me!

 

 

I've had junior suites and all the grand suites I've booked only went up in price meaning they do sell out. My April 2016 grand suite on the allure went up $1200 and there's only 1 left. I love the junior suites also but we like the grand suite just for the few extra little things.if they happen to do more for suite guests great it will just be a plus.

[Deck_Diva]

We were on Athem last May 19 nights B2B. Suites n PC used the CL n D, D+ used DL.

We were escorted to the tender n disembarkation day by the concierge themselves, even carried our 2 carry on luggage all the way down to the terminal..best 2 concierge we ever met! They greeted you by your name as you walk into the Concierge Lounge, while DL guy couldn't even crack a smile [emoji19]

[Tunkhannock]

As a brand new cruiser, I'm reading this thread with some interest.

 

The message I'm taking away from this, as a newbie cruiser is: "don't put all your eggs in one loyalty program basket". If we choose to go with RCI with our second (or third, or fourth...) cruise, it certainly won't be because of the C&A benefits which may accumulate in a couple of years (or longer).

 

As more and more cruisers reach the higher levels of the cruise line's loyalty programs (in RCI's case, D/D+/Pinnacle), the "exclusive factor" of those levels diminish. Agree or disagree, but RCI's way of coping with this is to cut the benefits that C&A members receive. I can only imagine that if/when we get to D or D+ level, their will be so many D or D+ members that the benefits received will be negligible.

[B-52]

I'm going to make a few assumptions in this post, but they are based on my many years of following these boards.

 

For the past 2-3 cruises, I have considered getting a GS. We normally sail in a standard balcony because I get lucky in my balcony locations (center hump, or aft - which we love). However, it all comes down to price - I could not justify the significant cost delta of the GS. We've sailed in a JS which provided all we were looking for - at a decent cost.

 

I've watched those 2-3 cruises closely on the availability of the GS. It seems that the vast majority 60-75% of the GS are open for booking until the last few months/weeks. Then they disappear. Sure, one or two get taken, but on the limited informal data I have gathered, at least 50-60% of the GS are unbooked until the last few weeks/months. This leads me to believe that they were offered as upgrades to loyality members, or as upsells to JS, etc. Likely meaning that Royal did not get the price they could have, had it been sold early on in the process.

 

So, how to attract GS buyers? Give them tangible perks! Make it worth their while over the JS crowd. I've sailed in a JS, and it was huge - I have a hard time believing anyone except MAYBE a family of 4 would complain about being cramped in a JS. So, it's not the sq footage that drives people to a GS or OS. Yet they are slow to sell.

 

When I was considering the GS, I would have been more serious had it come with tangible perks. So, I think giving GS and above some real serious benefits is OK with me!

 

Have found it to be the opposite in our experience.....we always book a GS, have been for as far back as I can remember...always with RCI....

We book early, get the room and location we want...the GS sell out fast and the prices always go up.....

 

Now it may be different on the newer, larger ships like Oasis....but we have never been on anything larger than a Freedom Class....and the GS rooms are all grouped together on the same deck....and they go quickly.

 

And we can care less about the perks....we just like the layout of the room.

[Paulette3028]

As a brand new cruiser, I'm reading this thread with some interest.

 

The message I'm taking away from this, as a newbie cruiser is: "don't put all your eggs in one loyalty program basket". If we choose to go with RCI with our second (or third, or fourth...) cruise, it certainly won't be because of the C&A benefits which may accumulate in a couple of years (or longer).

 

As more and more cruisers reach the higher levels of the cruise line's loyalty programs (in RCI's case, D/D+/Pinnacle), the "exclusive factor" of those levels diminish. Agree or disagree, but RCI's way of coping with this is to cut the benefits that C&A members receive. I can only imagine that if/when we get to D or D+ level, their will be so many D or D+ members that the benefits received will be negligible.

 

I don't know anything more about you and your style of life, except what you have put into this post --- so I have to wonder, do you cruise for the 'exclusive factor' that you may attain when you reach certain levels of the loyalty program?

 

I surely don't -- I don't believe I would like to be around people who want to feel they have some sort of 'exclusive factor' because of something. Life is way to short for that for me.

 

Do I enjoy the DL now that I am a Diamond? Sure. Did I enjoy any cruise I took before I became Diamond less? NO, I just got a new perk, FOR ME.....and there were lots of others at times enjoying that same perk.

 

This thread is supposedly about suite perks, and I highly doubt I will ever sail in many suites. We are sailing in our first JS, next year. The JS doesn't get all the perks of the larger suites -- and that is just fine.

 

After reading about the attitudes of some people in this thread.....I might not enjoy breathing the air in the lounges frequented by some people here. Just my opinion.

[Tunkhannock]

I don't know anything more about you and your style of life, except what you have put into this post --- so I have to wonder, do you cruise for the 'exclusive factor' that you may attain when you reach certain levels of the loyalty program?

 

Oh, no, neither do we. We're cruising for the experience itself and to visit new places we've never been to. We've booked a JS for this cruise, but mostly just for the extra space a JS provides.

 

I've just noticed that many seem to be very upset over the changing levels of benefits that certain tiers in C&A provide. Is such anger justified or not? I'm in no position to say.

 

My point was that as more and more cruisers move up in the C&A tiers, I imagine that the tangible benefits will become less and less. It's simple economics, really. As such, any future cruises we plan will not be very concerned with staying with a particular cruise line in order to advance in their loyalty program.

[Baby_Bear]

Back on topic! As someone who only sails once (maybe twice) a year but enjoys suites for the space they offer, here's my list of what I'd like to see as benefits:

 

- Unlimited internet (hi speed)

- Unlimited laundry

- Unlimited beverage packages

- Unlimited special dining

- Car service to and from the port (if you are flying in to the port, it should be from the airport to the cruise port).

 

I think NCL already offers the dining and beverage deals - When I was looking at Med cruises this Aug, I saw NCL was offering those for suites pax. And I think Celebrity may have started the car service offers, I recall reading something about car service to/from Bayonne? And the internet and laundry are great to have.

 

Bottom line, I think if RCL introduced these perks, their suites would be in huge demand. Although in fairness, for our Aug Med cruise, there were only 2 GS left when I went to book. But that's on the Rhapsody which doesn't have a lot of GS - it may be different on the big girls.

[A&L_Ont]

Back on topic! As someone who only sails once (maybe twice) a year but enjoys suites for the space they offer, here's my list of what I'd like to see as benefits:

 

- Unlimited internet (hi speed)

- Unlimited laundry

- Unlimited beverage packages

- Unlimited special dining

- Car service to and from the port (if you are flying in to the port, it should be from the airport to the cruise port).

 

I think NCL already offers the dining and beverage deals - When I was looking at Med cruises this Aug, I saw NCL was offering those for suites pax. And I think Celebrity may have started the car service offers, I recall reading something about car service to/from Bayonne? And the internet and laundry are great to have.

 

Bottom line, I think if RCL introduced these perks, their suites would be in huge demand. Although in fairness, for our Aug Med cruise, there were only 2 GS left when I went to book. But that's on the Rhapsody which doesn't have a lot of GS - it may be different on the big girls.

 

We sail on the big girls mostly. I do like your list of suggestions however if I had to pick one of two from them my highlights would be the free high speed internet and free laundry.

 

The car service would be nice but in FLL for the $12 taxi ride it isn't a great advantage espically if you arrive the day before. Now for Rome to Citivichiia (sp?) it would be a great advanatge when that car service costs 160 Euro. Unlimited specialty dining is nice but if the suite guests jam up the pay per use restaurants that wouldn't be fair to the rest of the guests on the ship.

 

I guess we will have to wait and see what RC announces, someday in the future.

[jonj]

Back on topic! As someone who only sails once (maybe twice) a year but enjoys suites for the space they offer, here's my list of what I'd like to see as benefits:

 

- Unlimited internet (hi speed)

- Unlimited laundry

- Unlimited beverage packages

- Unlimited special dining

- Car service to and from the port (if you are flying in to the port, it should be from the airport to the cruise port).

 

I think NCL already offers the dining and beverage deals - When I was looking at Med cruises this Aug, I saw NCL was offering those for suites pax. And I think Celebrity may have started the car service offers, I recall reading something about car service to/from Bayonne? And the internet and laundry are great to have.

 

Bottom line, I think if RCL introduced these perks, their suites would be in huge demand. Although in fairness, for our Aug Med cruise, there were only 2 GS left when I went to book. But that's on the Rhapsody which doesn't have a lot of GS - it may be different on the big girls.

 

Holland America has the free laundry for full suites and it was great coming home with all clean clothes. We had a minibar with soda, water bottles, and a welcome bottle of wine all included. The concierge lounge had drinks available all day, to my knowledge, the lounge is only for suite guests.

[Don Pedro]

As a brand new cruiser, I'm reading this thread with some interest.

 

The message I'm taking away from this, as a newbie cruiser is: "don't put all your eggs in one loyalty program basket". If we choose to go with RCI with our second (or third, or fourth...) cruise, it certainly won't be because of the C&A benefits which may accumulate in a couple of years (or longer).

 

As more and more cruisers reach the higher levels of the cruise line's loyalty programs (in RCI's case, D/D+/Pinnacle), the "exclusive factor" of those levels diminish. Agree or disagree, but RCI's way of coping with this is to cut the benefits that C&A members receive. I can only imagine that if/when we get to D or D+ level, their will be so many D or D+ members that the benefits received will be negligible.

 

I tend to agree with your thoughts but I believe the benefits will probably always be tangible. I am not all that convinced that the benefits have been slashed as badly as some suggest. Sure when the Concierge Lounge became overcrowded the D members lost access but RCCL put D lounges on their ships and now that it appears that overcrowding is again becoming an issue drink vouchers have already been introduced.

 

If you enjoy the product of a particular cruise line you will probable be wise to stay with them rather than jump from cruiseline to cruiseline because the benefits are meaningful in the long run.

[jules815]

I'd be pretty happy with free laundry and internet. I know NCL does unlimited specialty dining, so I don't see why RC couldn't do at least say 1-2 complimentary specialty dinners for sailings up to 7 days, and 3 for longer sailings? Of course a liquor package would be sweet, but with the CL, I doubt that will happen. How about a complimentary Royal Replenish?

 

I've given up hope that we'll see anything new for our upcoming cruise in September, but we've booked a GS on Harmony for October, 2016. Hopefully they'll get it together by then. :)

Edited June 16, 2015 by jules815

[yolanda1]

As a brand new cruiser, I'm reading this thread with some interest.

 

The message I'm taking away from this, as a newbie cruiser is: "don't put all your eggs in one loyalty program basket". If we choose to go with RCI with our second (or third, or fourth...) cruise, it certainly won't be because of the C&A benefits which may accumulate in a couple of years (or longer).

 

As more and more cruisers reach the higher levels of the cruise line's loyalty programs (in RCI's case, D/D+/Pinnacle), the "exclusive factor" of those levels diminish. Agree or disagree, but RCI's way of coping with this is to cut the benefits that C&A members receive. I can only imagine that if/when we get to D or D+ level, their will be so many D or D+ members that the benefits received will be negligible.

 

 

I think that's a very sensible approach, and if you stick with that philosophy, I think you will love cruising.

 

Cruise for pleasure, and pay a price you are happy to pay. Don't view it as some kind of investment, or entitlement, but as an experience. If you enjoy the experience, repeat it. If you don't, try something else. It's simple really, and will make you happier than the people who have stuck with it because they want to climb a ladder of entitlement and feel upset when the cruise line change their policies, and then threaten to become very demanding if they don't get what they want.

 

Life's too short to be bitter. Happy cruising!

[RocketMan275]

More than anything else, I'd like for them to get on with it and announce the new suite benefits.

[A&L_Ont]

More than anything else, I'd like for them to get on with it and announce the new suite benefits.

 

100% correct if not 1000%.

[nu_cruzer1]

Should suite guests subsidize the benefits for high status C&A members who only stay in inside cabins? This is the question that I am sure Royal is asking itself. Royal exists to make money. It makes sense that suite benefits will be enhanced, as a way to encourage people to book those room types. And C&A benefits will erode/stagnate because providing these benefits is a loss for Royal. I know that the argument will be that C&A members with high status are Royal's repeat business. And I don't disagree. But I am sure the execs are somewhere scratching their heads on how to gently change the benefits for C&A because they see these benefits as a loss of revenue. Why? Because C&A high status members don't need to book suites because they get the same benefits; they don't need to purchase a drink package because they get that in the lounge; they don't book shore excursions because they've probably been to many of the ports several times. As the number of high status C&A members continues to grow, the benefits will diminish or stay the same because it won't be cost effective for Royal to enhance the benefits without some kind of return. Perhaps the change to the C&A program will be that it will be MUCH harder to attain any level of status. Let's hope it's that painless.

[SULROSS]

Should suite guests subsidize the benefits for high status C&A members who only stay in inside cabins? This is the question that I am sure Royal is asking itself. Royal exists to make money. It makes sense that suite benefits will be enhanced, as a way to encourage people to book those room types. And C&A benefits will erode/stagnate because providing these benefits is a loss for Royal. I know that the argument will be that C&A members with high status are Royal's repeat business. And I don't disagree. But I am sure the execs are somewhere scratching their heads on how to gently change the benefits for C&A because they see these benefits as a loss of revenue. Why? Because C&A high status members don't need to book suites because they get the same benefits; they don't need to purchase a drink package because they get that in the lounge; they don't book shore excursions because they've probably been to many of the ports several times. As the number of high status C&A members continues to grow, the benefits will diminish or stay the same because it won't be cost effective for Royal to enhance the benefits without some kind of return. Perhaps the change to the C&A program will be that it will be MUCH harder to attain any level of status. Let's hope it's that painless.

 

;;;

Edited June 16, 2015 by SULROSS

[cruisegirl1]

Should suite guests subsidize the benefits for high status C&A members who only stay in inside cabins? .

 

What difference does the accommodations make. The high status cruiser followed the company rules and sailed RCCL a specific number of cruises or nights to reach a certain C&A level.

 

m

[nu_cruzer1]

Sorry but I was not referring to every single person who has attained status - my post was meant to be general. I have no problem with anyone getting any benefit - I'm not the exclusionary kind. I also don't care about my level on Royal - I could be pinnacle, cliff, or plutonium level, doesn't matter. And the reason I don't care is because of the fact that all levels are attainable, with time and money but mostly time. So there really is no exclusivity to any level, it's just a matter of investing time and money. I just posit that some people take too much stock in what their level is. Royal knows how much some people value attaining high levels in the C&A program and I'm betting Royal will come out with a program that allows people to buy their way to elite status, much like credit card companies offer elite status with airlines.

[DebJ14]

We are not loyal to any one particular cruise line. We are Silver on NCL, Diamond on Carnival and Royal Caribbean and Platinum on Princess. We have also sailed HAL and Celebrity and other lines that are now gone.

 

On Carnival they don't offer any perks (except for priority embarkation and debarkation) in the suites, so no need to pay the money for a suite. All of our perks on Carnival come from our Diamond status and they are minimal. We are done with Carnival and have no intention of ever sailing them again.

 

We had bad experiences years ago on both RCCL and Princess and stayed off those lines for nearly 10 years. When we returned to those lines we only booked suites and with the double points we zipped up to our current levels.

 

We like that Princess gives a free specialty dining the first night for full suites. Instead of a CL they give a free drink set up in the room and have a cocktail/ appetizer event every night for Platinum and above and suites, but they charge for the drinks. So, for us RCCL wins on that suite perk with the CL.

 

Princess gives us free laundry in a suite and they do a beautiful job on the clothes. I send out everything and we go home with all clean clothes. It is not just wash and fold - everything is pressed and on hangers.

 

If RCCL wants to really give some suite perks they need to take a look at the MSC Yacht Club. We tried that for the first time in April and were totally wowed! That has been the best service we have experienced on 55 cruises. Butlers, complimentary newspaper of your choice, complimentary mini bar, dedicated restaurant, pool, and and outdoor bar and small buffet as well as a beautiful lounge reminiscent of the Crown and Anchor lounge before they were chopped up. All drinks in the Yacht Club area are complimentary, but if you go to a bar outside the YC you pay. However, if you want to work the system you can call your Butler and ask him to deliver a drink wherever you are on the ship. There is also a Concierge on duty at the Concierge desk 24 hours a day. It was the most relaxing cruise we have ever taken and we really only left the Yacht Club to go to the shows (best on any line by far) or to get off the ship. Access to the YC is by keycard in both the elevator and the entrance to the YC. Also, the Captain comes to you and they held a separate event with the Captain in the lounge. He and Sr. Officers also ate most evenings in the YC restaurant and were visible and accessible to all the YC guests all week. Most of our fellow passengers were former Celebrity suite passengers who feel the YC is a better deal.

 

Personally, I would like to see free WiFi minutes with a suite, free laundry, some specialty dining thrown in, complimentary mini bar (including snacks) and on Voyager and Freedom Class a better CL. Those small windowless rooms are way overcrowded.

 

On our Nov. cruise we will probably check out the CL and the DL and see which one is better or use the drinks loaded on our cards at a bar in the evening. Sorry, but our last 4 cruises the CL has been so crowded we couldn't get a seat, regardless of when we got there. Saw lots of people sporting their Pinnacle nametags bragging about their inside cabins. Kind of makes you see red when you have shelled out $4000- $6000 for the week and they paid $479 X 2 to get on the ship and you can't get a seat in the CL.

Edited June 16, 2015 by DebJ14

[Paulette3028]

What difference does the accommodations make. The high status cruiser followed the company rules and sailed RCCL a specific number of cruises or nights to reach a certain C&A level.

 

m

 

I have absolutely no problem with suite guests having special perks......they pay a super high premium price for that suite on a sailing and should have different things to enjoy to justify for them paying the price.

 

By the same token, cruisers who have cruised frequently or often enough to achieve status within the C&A program also should receive 'thank you perks' for doing so -- and they DO. In this case, the accommodation is NOT the determinant of the perk, just the accumulation of nights sailed.

[Trekker954]

There are many nice benefits of diamond plus, only one of which is access to the diamond lounge on ships that have one. If the lounge is what you're searching for when you reach diamond plus, does it make much difference if they call the lounge a concierge lounge or diamond lounge? Eventually, the term concierge lounge will no longer be used on ships (As soon as all ships have a diamond lounge) and the options will be a suite lounge or diamond lounge depending on your accommodations or C&A level.

 

Enjoy

M

 

From the RCCL website, these are the benefits that you gain when becoming a Diamond Plus member.....

 

Behind the Scenes Tours

Personalized Gift/Amenity

Concierge Lounge Access

Priority seating at theater, ice show and AquaTheater events

 

For an extra 95 nights on a ship (and all the money that comes with that), I think the benefits are pretty useless. We thought at least we will have a "nicer" lounge. Obviously, they are getting rid of that. Don't get me wrong, we have loved the Diamond Lounge and have met the nicest people. But really - this is all I get for Diamond Plus?

 

As Elite on Celebrity, I always feel more special. I realize this is my personal opinion only.

 

Agree with this. If you've been on one Behind the Scenes Tour with RCI you'll been on them all. D+ are regular sailers, so how many of these can one do? The personalized gift; you mean the one we chose from the drop down. You want priority seating (these are usually in the bleechers) and/or wait until 10 minutes before the shows and they allow anyone to sit there.

 

Which brings us to the CL. We absolutely love it, love having the Concierge help us or answer questions. The Diamond lounges are way to crowded, more often than not moved and held in some huge venue. Service cannot be compared to that in a CL. We've always been able to chat with other cruises in this smaller lounge, it is just easier to start conversations. This is often lost on the bigger more crowded DL. I can say I've felt very connected to many a CL concierge, but never a Diamond concierge. They have been wonderful Diamond concierges, I'm not saying that, they are all just too busy and overwhelmed to be as attentive as we have become accustomed to in the CL

 

i am very sad that D+ members have been demoted.

[Don Pedro]

Should suite guests subsidize the benefits for high status C&A members who only stay in inside cabins? This is the question that I am sure Royal is asking itself. Royal exists to make money. It makes sense that suite benefits will be enhanced, as a way to encourage people to book those room types. And C&A benefits will erode/stagnate because providing these benefits is a loss for Royal. I know that the argument will be that C&A members with high status are Royal's repeat business. And I don't disagree. But I am sure the execs are somewhere scratching their heads on how to gently change the benefits for C&A because they see these benefits as a loss of revenue. Why? Because C&A high status members don't need to book suites because they get the same benefits; they don't need to purchase a drink package because they get that in the lounge; they don't book shore excursions because they've probably been to many of the ports several times. As the number of high status C&A members continues to grow, the benefits will diminish or stay the same because it won't be cost effective for Royal to enhance the benefits without some kind of return. Perhaps the change to the C&A program will be that it will be MUCH harder to attain any level of status. Let's hope it's that painless.

 

I am bewildered why you would think that the C & A benefits represent a loss of revenue. The benefits are a marketing tool - a customer acquisition cost that the folks in Miami are smart enough to include in the price of the cruise. The C & A benefits extended to most repeat cruisers are likely less than the cost of attracting new customers.

 

I am a frequent suite guest and have never felt I was subsidizing anyone. I merely enjoy the suite life and am willing to pay the price. As some have noted many suite guests are not frequent cruisers so the benefits offered by different cruise lines are a major consideration for them. I suspect that is why RCCL is taking a look at their suite program.

Edited June 16, 2015 by Don Pedro

[CVU]

Should suite guests subsidize the benefits for high status C&A members who only stay in inside cabins?

We cruise GS, JS or D balcony since we started. So, not all C&A are inside cabins to attain their status.

We book a year to two years in advance and fill up our Spring and Fall with RCL cruises. Many are 4 in a row or more after flying home and leaving again to cruise. So, some of us help fill the ship.:)