Falling off ships

[MicCanberra]

Absolutely tragic for the families and everyone concerned but I hate the way they say people fall off the ships.

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-06-30/coroner-says-woman-who-in-cruise-ship-fall-likely-making-gesture/6582968

[Esilef]

Very sad for the families involved but it sounds like she deliberately climbed over the balcony testing her boyfriend and then slipped.

[bazzaw]

I say that you would have to be doing something absolutely stupid (and I have seen people doing stupid things on ships) - or deliberately doing something that you know is dangerous - to "fall off a ship" .

 

Wife and I nearly always peer over the back of a ship - to watch the foam in the water and the wake -- there are generally cameras in these areas and we often wonder to ourselves if somewhere, deep inside the bowels of the ship , there is some security person watching us !!?? :)

[MicCanberra]

I say that you would have to be doing something absolutely stupid (and I have seen people doing stupid things on ships) - or deliberately doing something that you know is dangerous - to "fall off a ship" .

 

Wife and I nearly always peer over the back of a ship - to watch the foam in the water and the wake -- there are generally cameras in these areas and we often wonder to ourselves if somewhere, deep inside the bowels of the ship , there is some security person watching us !!?? :)

 

Agreed, they only way for someone to go over is to jump or be pushed or putting themselves into a dangerous position first.:(

They do have cameras monitoring for anything going over board, unfortunately it is really only used after the fact. They then go through the video to see if anything shows up.

[GUT2407]

I'm hoping to get my hands on the transcript of the inquest, it may shed a bit more light.

[mr walker]

according to Ch9 Sydney news report, the coroner apparently is some sort of long distance mind reader in terms of geography & time. His finding is that the woman deliberately climbed out onto the rail in an attempt to test or challenge or scare the guy & accidently slipped and fell. He was found to then have got out of bed & heroically jump to his death after her in an effort to save her & has been recommended for a bravery award.

 

He found that both died either from injuries sustained in the initial fall OR within hours in the water. Pretty conclusive then :eek:

 

A recommendation from the enquiry is that cruiselines should include in the safety instructions to passengers on what to do in the event of a 'man overboard' incident. It is reported that Carnival are expected to adopt this recommendation.

[The_Big_M]

The coroner has to make the best assessment based on the facts available.

 

Spending all that time and just saying 'well, I can't be certain so I won't say anything at all' isn't very useful.

[zoncom]

Studies indicate people do suicide at places they love. I live in a beautiful resort area and it happens here often.

[kiwipete]

 

A recommendation from the enquiry is that cruiselines should include in the safety instructions to passengers on what to do in the event of a 'man overboard' incident. It is reported that Carnival are expected to adopt this recommendation.

 

Obviously not regular cruising people. Already done, and has been for a long time!!

[GUT2407]

according to Ch9 Sydney news report, the coroner apparently is some sort of long distance mind reader in terms of geography & time. His finding is that the woman deliberately climbed out onto the rail in an attempt to test or challenge or scare the guy & accidently slipped and fell. He was found to then have got out of bed & heroically jump to his death after her in an effort to save her & has been recommended for a bravery award.

 

He found that both died either from injuries sustained in the initial fall OR within hours in the water. Pretty conclusive then :eek:

 

A recommendation from the enquiry is that cruiselines should include in the safety instructions to passengers on what to do in the event of a 'man overboard' incident. It is reported that Carnival are expected to adopt this recommendation.

 

 

The coroner, like any judge or jury, has to be what you call "a long distance mind reader" they have to asses the evidence and decide what is likely to have occurred.

 

How do you think murder trials are decided, a jury does just that. The decider of facts obviously wasn't there so they have to weigh the evidence and decide what probably happened.

 

In a criminal case they have to convinced that it is beyond reasonable doubt in other cases it is on the basis of more likely than not.

 

I suspect that there will be some changes to instructions at Muster Drill.

[pacificlover]

I think they already give instructions on what to do if someone is seen to go overboard. On most (if not all) ships I've been on, at least.

[MicCanberra]

It is hypothesis based on what little they know.

I just do not know why they have to gloss it up. She jumped, he followed. Perhaps it is for insurance reason that they dress it up as an accident. The findings have now stated that the Cruise line/ship is not at fault and either are the two people, payouts can now ensue for the estates.

[MicCanberra]

Obviously not regular cruising people. Already done, and has been for a long time!!

 

Yes, it is in the muster, it is in the safety video which they recommend people watch and it is generally on when you first get to your cabin on embarkation day, there are also signs around the decks on most ships I have been on. Of course no-one in there right mind climbs over the railing without disregarding common sense.:(

[Haoie]

Good article - it didn't even have the usual cruise bashing attitude that most of these crime cases involve.

[MicCanberra]

Good article - it didn't even have the usual cruise bashing attitude that most of these crime cases involve.

 

Well at least there is that, as you say, they normally blame the ship/ cruise line.

[GUT2407]

I think they already give instructions on what to do if someone is seen to go overboard. On most (if not all) ships I've been on, at least.

 

 

That is our experience too, however Carnival have said that they are going to make changes so it will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable change to muster drill.

[MicCanberra]

That is our experience too, however Carnival have said that they are going to make changes so it will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable change to muster drill.

 

Perhaps emphasising the 'throw something bouyant in after them, alert the crew and don't jump in' aspect.

Edited July 1, 2015 by MicCanberra

[OzKiwiJJ]

That is our experience too, however Carnival have said that they are going to make changes so it will be interesting to see if there is any noticeable change to muster drill.

 

The problem is that most people forget what is said at the muster drills immediately, and that's assuming they haven't just switched off during the briefing.

 

It's the same with airline safety briefings unless the airline does something really clever to help make the information stick in people's minds - like Air New Zealand started to do a few years ago. Some of those were so funny that people were watching them on Youtube, and therefore absorbing that information for future flights.

Edited July 1, 2015 by OzKiwiJJ

[GUT2407]

The problem is that most people forget what is said at the muster drills immediately, and that's assuming they haven't just switched off during the briefing.

 

It's the same with airline safety briefings unless the airline does something really clever to help make the information stick in people's minds - like Air New Zealand started to do a few years ago. Some of those were so funny that people were watching them on Youtube, and therefore absorbing that information for future flights.

 

 

Given that Carnival are reported to have said that there will be changes I wonder f there might be some more frequent short mentions. So PA or at the start of shows or similar.

[The_Big_M]

It is hypothesis based on what little they know.

I just do not know why they have to gloss it up. She jumped, he followed. Perhaps it is for insurance reason that they dress it up as an accident. The findings have now stated that the Cruise line/ship is not at fault and either are the two people, payouts can now ensue for the estates.

 

I haven't seen anything to say it's glossed up.

 

The report I heard said that it wasn't believed it was intentional though (based on prior behaviour for example). Suicide usually isn't spontaneous.

[mr walker]

Based on the media reports, and there does seem to be a consistency of story in all reports I have sighted and heard, it looks that the coroner has arrived at the best case scenario findings in regards to the participants in this case.

 

In the interests of the families, this would appear to be the best outcome.

 

If some good is to come from this, then hopefully passengers will learn better how to react in a 'man overboard' situation, a situation hopefully none of us are ever put in.

[GUT2407]

am sorry but I do not believe that the coroner would make a decision based on what would make the families feel better or make the cruise line look better or worse.

[MicCanberra]

I said it was glossed over because someone deliberately climbed over the rail before letting go and instead of suicide, it is called an accident. :(

 

It would be an accident is when the railing broke and someone went over. That said, perhaps for the families' sake the coroner wanted to spare them.

Edited July 1, 2015 by MicCanberra

[3littlepigs]

We were shocked at how lax the muster drill was on our Carnival cruise! it as nothing like the other companies we have cruised with in the past.

Passengers poodled down to the muster station at their leisure over about a half hour period, no names were marked off, the staff counted heads and recounted again and again when the numbers didn't add up. I was left a bit worried about his it would be handled in the case of a real emergency.

Edited July 1, 2015 by 3littlepigs

[The_Big_M]

am sorry but I do not believe that the coroner would make a decision based on what would make the families feel better or make the cruise line look better or worse.

 

Agreed. They wouldn't be doing their job properly if that were true.

 

And I haven't heard anything to suggest it was based on anything but the evidence available.