Official statement on Turkey port calls please

[baytraller]

Celebrity need to make an official statement regarding Turkish ports.

 

The Equinox had overnight stays changed and now the Refection has had an Istanbul call cancelled.

 

But received an email from Celebrity offering special prices for cruises on the Constellation in October which starts and end in Istanbul with overnight stays there.

 

They expect people to book cruises with flights and accommodation while cancelling or changing current cruises.

 

If every time there is a security issue they are going to make last minute changes I for one will not be booking with Celebrity.

 

What about cruises later this year in Asia.

 

Bangkok recent bomb blast and the Korean border issues.

 

Amsterdam to Paris train bomb scare.

 

Lets not forget the Boston Marathon bomb blast.

 

No city or country these days is immune for terrorism .

[BEAV]

 

If every time there is a security issue they are going to make last minute changes I for one will not be booking with Celebrity.

 

 

I agree and empathize with you on this. It's a tough situation for a cruise line to have alter an itinerary so close to the departure date. And while two wrongs don't make a right, the current Turkish situation is causing several cruise lines to alter their soon-to-depart itineraries that included Istanbul. So if you punish Celebrity by taking your business to a competing cruise line, you may be surprised to find the competition may be making the same modifications to their itineraries as well.

 

A few years while cruising from Florida to California on a cruise line other than Celebrity, the announcement came they would be dropping the stop in Acapulco due to escalating crime problems. Again, the decision to discontinue the stop was made after we had embarked in Florida and were midway through the voyage.

 

So these situations are often industry-wide and not necessarily limited to just Celebrity.

[cle-guy]

Its VERY doubtful they will make any changes to a cruise that starts and ends there. They would have to by contract cover the travel expenses of anyone affected by the port changes, and allow outright cancellations.

 

They can however, limit exposure by eliminating overnights, and unnecessary calls there, which seems to be what they are doing.

[WestLakeGirl]

"The situation in many ports around the world, including Istanbul, is very fluid and we are monitoring it carefully on a day by day basis. As soon as decisions are made we will inform our passengers. We regret that due to the unpredictable nature of world events we may not be able to make these decisions until the last minute. Thank you for your understanding"

 

 

That's my guess as to what any official statement might look like. Let's see how close I come if one is ever issued,

[fred111]

My wife and I are on the Oct 23 Constellation cruise out of Istanbul. We are arriving a few days early. We are not in the least bit concerned. Istanbul is as safe or safer than any other major city in the world today.

[bajacali]

Its VERY doubtful they will make any changes to a cruise that starts and ends there. They would have to by contract cover the travel expenses of anyone affected by the port changes, and allow outright cancellations.

 

They can however, limit exposure by eliminating overnights, and unnecessary calls there, which seems to be what they are doing.

 

Where can I find reference in the passenger contract that Celebrity would have to cover travel expenses if they changed port of departure? I have looked and cannot find any reference to this. We are booked on the September 28th Constellation out of Istanbul and are most concerned. I am guessing that they may change the overnight and sail one day early but it would certainly be helpful if we knew ahead of time in order to plan our Istanbul visit.

[bajacali]

Where can I find reference in the passenger contract that Celebrity would have to cover travel expenses if they changed port of departure? I have looked and cannot find any reference to this. We are booked on the September 28th Constellation out of Istanbul and are most concerned. I am guessing that they may change the overnight and sail one day early but it would certainly be helpful if we knew ahead of time in order to plan our Istanbul visit.

 

Sorry, I meant September 30th sailing on Constellation out of Istanbul.

[cle-guy]

Sorry, I meant September 30th sailing on Constellation out of Istanbul.

 

If they were to leave the embarkation port a day early, they would not have to do anything, since boarding would still happen on boarding day, and they would be simply canceling a port call. That is to say, anyone who decides to not board the ship on the 1st day thinking they will enjoy one more night elsewhere and just get on the next day, are on their own - it'd be considered "missing the boat" and up to them to catch up.

 

It's mostly Europeans who have such protections (and why we see a lot about Europeans complaining about the unfair higher prices they pay versus North Americans), North Americans may not have that coverage. In their contracts they get compensation for changed embarkation or disembarkation ports, and if "more than 2" ports of call are modified along the way.

 

Last fall for example, I forget what ship it was, but they could not disembark in Rome due to heavy seas and high winds, so Celebrity disembarked someplace else, and had to provide complimentary transport to the original port (by bus) and handle flight issues.

 

I looked for the european contract, but could not find it. You likely would have to make a "dummy booking" and find the contract then and then it may refer to the european consumer protection laws without describing them. It may not be in the contract, and instead is part of the various Consumer Protection Laws of the passengers who book (i.e. United Kingdom law). There is some part of the contract that stipulates their only duty is to transport a passenger from the agreed upon embarkation port to the agreed upon disembarkation port.

 

My google search found 2 different cruise contracts, that are different, so Im no sure which is current, though I could tell both were North American versions, as they noted other nationalities may have different rules that apply. One had language that nothing is owed if modifications were made due to local authorities demands or local hostilities, however, which likely could fall into the Istanbul modifications

 

In any case, a good reason to have cruise insurance to help with such delays and changes if they might be critical to ones plans.

[Redtravel]

I am on Silhouette in October with a stop in Kusadsi, Turkey. Has Celebrity made any changes to that port? When I booked the cruise about 6 months ago, I originally was looking at a cruise that began/ended in Istanbul. My TA refused to book it. He said that Istanbul was too risky. At that time, I was not aware of concerns in being in Istanbul. I am okay with changes due to safety.

[bajacali]

If they were to leave the embarkation port a day early, they would not have to do anything, since boarding would still happen on boarding day, and they would be simply canceling a port call. That is to say, anyone who decides to not board the ship on the 1st day thinking they will enjoy one more night elsewhere and just get on the next day, are on their own - it'd be considered "missing the boat" and up to them to catch up.

 

It's mostly Europeans who have such protections (and why we see a lot about Europeans complaining about the unfair higher prices they pay versus North Americans), North Americans may not have that coverage. In their contracts they get compensation for changed embarkation or disembarkation ports, and if "more than 2" ports of call are modified along the way.

 

Last fall for example, I forget what ship it was, but they could not disembark in Rome due to heavy seas and high winds, so Celebrity disembarked someplace else, and had to provide complimentary transport to the original port (by bus) and handle flight issues.

 

I looked for the european contract, but could not find it. You likely would have to make a "dummy booking" and find the contract then and then it may refer to the european consumer protection laws without describing them. It may not be in the contract, and instead is part of the various Consumer Protection Laws of the passengers who book (i.e. United Kingdom law). There is some part of the contract that stipulates their only duty is to transport a passenger from the agreed upon embarkation port to the agreed upon disembarkation port.

 

My google search found 2 different cruise contracts, that are different, so Im no sure which is current, though I could tell both were North American versions, as they noted other nationalities may have different rules that apply. One had language that nothing is owed if modifications were made due to local authorities demands or local hostilities, however, which likely could fall into the Istanbul modifications

 

In any case, a good reason to have cruise insurance to help with such delays and changes if they might be critical to ones plans.

 

Thanks for your quick response. So am I to understand that North American's and European's would be treated differently by the cruise line should the embarkation port be changed? I looked at my cruise insurance and it appears that changes due to political unrest etc is not covered. Will just hope that Celebrity keeps embarkation from Istanbul and can live with no overnight stay if that is the result. Will continue to monitor this board as the information provided by members is very helpful. Thanks again

[cruiserchuck]

I am on Silhouette in October with a stop in Kusadsi, Turkey. Has Celebrity made any changes to that port? When I booked the cruise about 6 months ago, I originally was looking at a cruise that began/ended in Istanbul. My TA refused to book it. He said that Istanbul was too risky. At that time, I was not aware of concerns in being in Istanbul. I am okay with changes due to safety.

 

We were in Istanbul for two days in May on the Equinox, and felt completely safe. I am not sure your why your travel agent felt it was too risky six months ago. As others have pointed out, there are incidents of violence in many places people frequently travel. That being said, Celebrity has to make quick decisions based on limited information, and it is hard to fault them for changing itineraries, especially since other cruise lines did so earlier.

[nordski]

We were in Istanbul for two days in May on the Equinox, and felt completely safe. I am not sure your why your travel agent felt it was too risky six months ago. As others have pointed out, there are incidents of violence in many places people frequently travel. That being said, Celebrity has to make quick decisions based on limited information, and it is hard to fault them for changing itineraries, especially since other cruise lines did so earlier.

 

 

We were also there in May, and agree with your assessment so I'm surprised that a travel agent would have had concerns at that point. Certainly we had few concerns.

 

That being said, I think President Erdogan has potentially increased dangers by instituting several risky strategies. The first is "joining the war on ISIS", which is laudable, but apparently using that policy to put pressure on the Kurds as well. That may incite more Kurdish nationalism and activism, particularly through the PKK, Kurdish Workers' Party which had some success in the recent election.

 

Which leads to another issue. Erdogan has failed to form a coalition government following this spring's election, and a new election will be called on Nov. I. This could lead to other problems; for example, there is a Marxist party that can be militant. And the PKK will attempt to repeat its recent electoral success.

 

On the positive side, no foreign office of western powers has advised against visiting Istanbul, and of course any reasonable person would avoid areas such as Taksim Square where political demonstrations usually take place. However, I think it's safe to say that the situation is now somewhat more volatile than in May.

 

Consequently, we have decided to fly in the day of our cruise embarking in October and use Choice Air and it's transfers. Thus, if changes are made, such as not embarking in Istanbul, it places the responsibility on the cruise line to get us to our ship.

 

Obviously, many may feel this is an overreaction, but it suits our comfort level. And I don't envy the cruise lines who must monitor the situation and react accordingly.

 

Actually I hope these concerns and cancellations, both real and potential, force Erdogan to reassess his policies and return to more moderate positions.

Edited August 26, 2015 by nordski

[cle-guy]

Here's the official response.

 

We have been closely monitoring the security situation in Istanbul, Turkey, and have decided, in an abundance of caution, to cancel Celebrity Reflection's overnight call to Istanbul on Friday, September 4 and Saturday, September 5

[Priya2]

I agree that terrorism is striking cities all over the world, but that doesn't make the risks of future attacks equal. The UK foreign office recently changed the advice to UK nationals. It now advises against all but essential travel to Tunisia. This is not because of the two attacks on tourists or the fact that, in the attack in the Souse resort, 30 British nationals were killed and others injured. The advice was changed after British Officials, including senior security personal, met with their counterparts in Tunisia and assessed their procedures and protocols. Finding them seriously lacking, including poor intelligence and a lack of clear procedures for dealing with any evidence of risk. The risks of successful future attacks were, consequently, considered too high. Other cities (New York, Boston, London, Paris etc) have been badly struck by terrorism, but their security, including what they have learned and changed as a result of their experiences, is much better. Our Governments, and presumably Cruise companies, balance the benefits of travel against the risks. The evaluation of risk includes a constalation of factors.

 

For me, irrespective of Government advise, I am not happy to travel to a country with a porous border to either Libya or Syria. So Turkey and Tunisia are out for me. Lets face it, if these countries were good at security, those borders would not be porous! Its a terrible shame, especially for the good people of those countries who rely on tourism for their livelyhood, but there are other places to visit. We get get blown-up in some other places too, but the chances are less.

[quiltingdiva]

I agree that terrorism is striking cities all over the world, but that doesn't make the risks of future attacks equal. The UK foreign office recently changed the advice to UK nationals. It now advises against all but essential travel to Tunisia. This is not because of the two attacks on tourists or the fact that, in the attack in the Souse resort, 30 British nationals were killed and others injured. The advice was changed after British Officials, including senior security personal, met with their counterparts in Tunisia and assessed their procedures and protocols. Finding them seriously lacking, including poor intelligence and a lack of clear procedures for dealing with any evidence of risk. The risks of successful future attacks were, consequently, considered too high. Other cities (New York, Boston, London, Paris etc) have been badly struck by terrorism, but their security, including what they have learned and changed as a result of their experiences, is much better. Our Governments, and presumably Cruise companies, balance the benefits of travel against the risks. The evaluation of risk includes a constalation of factors.

 

For me, irrespective of Government advise, I am not happy to travel to a country with a porous border to either Libya or Syria. So Turkey and Tunisia are out for me. Lets face it, if these countries were good at security, those borders would not be porous! Its a terrible shame, especially for the good people of those countries who rely on tourism for their livelyhood, but there are other places to visit. We get get blown-up in some other places too, but the chances are less.

 

Thank you. Finally, a reasonable, well-thought out, wise approach to the whole matter. Would that we could all be so well-behaved!

[dabear]

I am not sure where Cle-Guy is getting his information (unless it's second hand fromCC posts of opinion), but US contracts would not cover change fees if an embarkation port is changed unless the pax booked choice air through X. Further the change fees would not be covered with most travel insurance policies unless the policy is the type that covers fees for cancellation for any reason (very expensive). Thus, US pax would incur there own costs for any of such changes.

 

I agree that X would not incur any liability if the ship departed the day of boarding & skip an overnight stay.

Edited August 30, 2015 by dabear

[upwarduk]

Here is the changed itinerary for Reflection 31st August Sailing

 

Date Ports of Call Arrive Depart Activity

Mo 31Aug2015 Rome (Civitavecchia), Italy - 05:00 PM Boarding

Di 01Sep2015 At Sea - - Cruising

Mi 02Sep2015 Santorini, Greece 02:00 PM 10:00 PM Tendered

Do 03Sep2015 Mykonos, Greece 07:00 AM 06:00 PM Tendered

Fr 04Sep2015 Athens (Piraeus), Greece 06:00 AM - Docked

Sa 05Sep2015 Athens (Piraeus), Greece - 06:00 PM Docked

So 06Sep2015 Kusadasi (Ephesus), Turkey 08:00 AM 05:00 PM Docked

Mo 07Sep2015 Rhodes, Greece 06:30 AM 04:30 PM Docked

Di 08Sep2015 Chania (Souda), Crete, Greece 08:00 AM 05:00 PM Docked

Mi 09Sep2015 At Sea - - Cruising

Do 10Sep2015 Naples, Italy 07:00 AM 06:30 PM Docked

Fr 11Sep2015 Rome (Civitavecchia), Italy 05:00 AM - Departure

[Priya2]

Thank you. Finally, a reasonable, well-thought out, wise approach to the whole matter. Would that we could all be so well-behaved!

Thank you for that Diva 😌

[gold1953]

Last Oct. We were booked on the Constellation out of Rome. The day before we were notified that seas were too rough so the ship would depart from Naples. Celebrity bussed all the departing passengers to Rome and all of us to Naples by bus. We were bussed from both the airport and the port. A huge expense and a lot of work for Celebrity. They had to start disembarking the passengers at 2am to accomplish this.

[Suite Susie]

We are currently on the Equinox and had our itinerary changed a few days before we boarded in Istanbul. They cancelled the overnight planning to leave Istanbul at 9.00 pm. they eventually left at just after 11 I think, but still left 9 passengers behind. They extended Our stays in Kusadasi, Athens and Mykonos to make up for this. Having a lovely cruise although we are now in code red with Norovirus.

[grayjay]

I am not sure where Cle-Guy is getting his information (unless it's second hand fromCC posts of opinion), but US contracts would not cover change fees if an embarkation port is changed unless the pax booked choice air through X. Further the change fees would not be covered with most travel insurance policies unless the policy is the type that covers fees for cancellation for any reason (very expensive). Thus, US pax would incur there own costs for any of such changes.

 

I agree that X would not incur any liability if the ship departed the day of boarding & skip an overnight stay.

 

Same for Europe - change fees or re-booking flights you'll have to do at your own risk and you'll have to pay for that as well. Nothing is covered by Celebrity unless you book the flights/hotels etc. with the cruise line. So you definitely run a risk if you book non-refundable flights and hotels as many travellers do because of the cost factor.

Same with travel insurances, as far as I know. Unrest in a country is not covered even if most travel agencies try to help their passengers if you have booked with them. For example Tunisia: when the shooting occured and so many lost their lives, people were brought back by the tour companies at their cost - just not the individual traveller who were on their own. It's different when an actual war breaks out, then the government will try to help and fly people out.

[donaldsc]

My wife and I are on the Oct 23 Constellation cruise out of Istanbul. We are arriving a few days early. We are not in the least bit concerned. Istanbul is as safe or safer than any other major city in the world today.

 

However safe or unsafe that may be.

 

DON

[Scotland01]

I agree that terrorism is striking cities all over the world, but that doesn't make the risks of future attacks equal. The UK foreign office recently changed the advice to UK nationals. It now advises against all but essential travel to Tunisia. This is not because of the two attacks on tourists or the fact that, in the attack in the Souse resort, 30 British nationals were killed and others injured. The advice was changed after British Officials, including senior security personal, met with their counterparts in Tunisia and assessed their procedures and protocols. Finding them seriously lacking, including poor intelligence and a lack of clear procedures for dealing with any evidence of risk. The risks of successful future attacks were, consequently, considered too high. Other cities (New York, Boston, London, Paris etc) have been badly struck by terrorism, but their security, including what they have learned and changed as a result of their experiences, is much better. Our Governments, and presumably Cruise companies, balance the benefits of travel against the risks. The evaluation of risk includes a constalation of factors.

 

For me, irrespective of Government advise, I am not happy to travel to a country with a porous border to either Libya or Syria. So Turkey and Tunisia are out for me. Lets face it, if these countries were good at security, those borders would not be porous! Its a terrible shame, especially for the good people of those countries who rely on tourism for their livelyhood, but there are other places to visit. We get get blown-up in some other places too, but the chances are less.

 

Thank you for posting such a sensible well thought out response. With Quilting Diva we are also on 21Sept sailing Have been twice to Istanbul and stayed last time 2 years ago in Grand Hyatt just off Taxsim Sq just after demonstrations held there. Everywhere was milling with heavily armed police.Would probably be happier if we did not go this time. Our family have just had to worry about us sailing through Suez Canal Red Sea and past Yemen on Quantum of the Seas in May. Our grandson aged 18 with his girlfriend were in a hotel 2 along from where the shooting was in the Tunisian resort. They were on a trip during the morning and heard the shooting on their return thought it was fireworks. They were confined to the hotel for the rest of their stay . Never has an 18 year old 6foot 2inch grandson been hugged so much on his return!!!

Margaret

[dabear]

Last Oct. We were booked on the Constellation out of Rome. The day before we were notified that seas were too rough so the ship would depart from Naples. Celebrity bussed all the departing passengers to Rome and all of us to Naples by bus. We were bussed from both the airport and the port. A huge expense and a lot of work for Celebrity. They had to start disembarking the passengers at 2am to accomplish this.

 

That was fortunate but in this situation at the last minute I don't think Celebrity had a choice or else they would have had a terrible public relations problem from 2 sets of pax.