Formal nights getting really casual ....

[Level six]

I don't know if you would call what I wear formal or not. The picture is small but the one I use as my avatar here was taken on a formal night. In the picture I'm wearing a dark 3 piece suit with a dark red shirt and coordinating tie. Formal? It's not a tux but I do dress nicely for formal nights and I am well within the Princess guidelines.

 

You look great! I consider it formal wear, but from some of the posts, others do not. Nothing looks better than a man in a nice fitting suit. I agree with the previous post as to "who decides"? Who makes the call?

One woman said nice pants, nice blouse.........I agree it is good, but it is not formal. Would she be turned away?

I always make an effort to look nice (nice dress or dress pants/dressy shirt), but I do not take formal wear, at least what the true meaning of formal wear is.

Like I said before, I have had luggage not make it to the ship and it doesn't matter if you have 5 formals packed, you are out of luck. I only take carry on now. Yes, I wear dress pants, dressy blouse, jewelry. I look great, but is it formal, no. So, would I be turned away? I don't know because I just go to the buffet instead. I want to "fit in", but it is not worth taking up my valuable carry on luggage space just to make others happy.

[Steelers36]

I don't think it is "funny" so much as it is "realistic". You are never going to see a return to the days where the velvet ropes open up only if you are wearing "formal wear" in the Emily Post sense of the term. That ship has sailed, both literally and figuratively. So where we are left is:

• a. Keep "Formal Night" but relax the attire requirements a bit; or
  
• b. Abolish the concept altogether.
  

What you are seeing is people wanting and hoping for "a". So yes, I think that there is much support for an "Elegant Evening" approach in place of "Formal Night". But in some ways, that puts more pressure on the bouncers to make the call as to what is or is not "Elegant". I kind of like the tried and true: "Jackets required for gentleman." That is a pretty clear, bright line...(says the guy who does not own a kilt or other "elegant" regional/cultural attire).

 

I'm for (A). But "Jackets required for gentlemen" says nothing about a tie (I'm fine with or without), but more importantly, it says nothing about the fairer sex.

[shredie]

I'm for (A). But "Jackets required for gentlemen" says nothing about a tie (I'm fine with or without), but more importantly, it says nothing about the fairer sex.

 

Most of the hoopla centers on the men's dress, probably because they seem to be the ones complaining the loudest. Women tend to take care of themselves. I have seen plenty of examples of ladies dressed nicely walking into formal night DR with their less-spiffed male companions. Of course, there are exceptions, but the beefing about "sexism" and how women don't have to conform as men do is just an excuse to justify the argument of some guy who doesn't care how he looks on formal night. IMO, of course.

[Mom33]

Most of the hoopla centers on the men's dress, probably because they seem to be the ones complaining the loudest. Women tend to take care of themselves. I have seen plenty of examples of ladies dressed nicely walking into formal night DR with their less-spiffed male companions. Of course, there are exceptions, but the beefing about "sexism" and how women don't have to conform as men do is just an excuse to justify the argument of some guy who doesn't care how he looks on formal night. IMO, of course.

 

My opinion also...:D

[Colo Cruiser]

Most of the hoopla centers on the men's dress, probably because they seem to be the ones complaining the loudest. Women tend to take care of themselves. I have seen plenty of examples of ladies dressed nicely walking into formal night DR with their less-spiffed male companions. Of course, there are exceptions, but the beefing about "sexism" and how women don't have to conform as men do is just an excuse to justify the argument of some guy who doesn't care how he looks on formal night. IMO, of course.

 

My opinion also...:D

 

 

Can you imagine how far down the dress would go if the policies/suggestions were relaxed or removed? There are always those that would continue pushing. I can only imagine how it would look in the DR. Not something that I want to see at all on Princess.

[Cruise Junky]

Can you imagine how far down the dress would go if the policies/suggestions were relaxed or removed? There are always those that would continue pushing. I can only imagine how it would look in the DR. Not something that I want to see at all on Princess.

 

Has princess dropped that far? Oceania, Azamara, etc don't seem to have this issue. Maybe I should be rethinking my vacation plans if Princess cruisers have turned into what you describe or are you perhaps ridiculously exaggerating?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Cruise Junky

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Has princess dropped that far? Oceania, Azamara, etc don't seem to have this issue. Maybe I should be rethinking my vacation plans if Princess cruisers have turned into what you describe or are you perhaps ridiculously exaggerating?

 

My issue with Princess and MDR dress is that while, last I knew, HAL and X enforce their policies, Princess doesn't choose to. Things then sink to the lowest common denominator. This has resulted in tuxes and suits becoming shirtsleeves on formal nights, and dress shirts and nice slacks becoming ripped jeans and t-shirts on dressy casual nights (saw it myself on the Golden).

 

As I have said before, I don't mind Princess becoming dressy casual every night in the MDR, but my concern is it will soon become shorts and team jerseys every night without better enforcement :(.

[Colo Cruiser]

Has princess dropped that far? Oceania, Azamara, etc don't seem to have this issue. Maybe I should be rethinking my vacation plans if Princess cruisers have turned into what you describe or are you perhaps ridiculously exaggerating?

 

 

I said IF it was lowered or removed.

Yes they have dropped.

I have been on Oceania many times.

What in the world would "O" have to do with this discussion about Princess?

 

When is the last time you sailed Oceania?

Edited September 3, 2015 by Colo Cruiser

[Cruise Junky]

My issue with Princess and MDR dress is that while, last I knew, HAL and X enforce their policies, Princess doesn't choose to. Things then sink to the lowest common denominator. This has resulted in tuxes and suits becoming shirtsleeves on formal nights, and dress shirts and nice slacks becoming ripped jeans and t-shirts on dressy casual nights (saw it myself on the Golden).

 

As I have said before, I don't mind Princess becoming dressy casual every night in the MDR, but my concern is it will soon become shorts and team jerseys every night without better enforcement :(.

 

I don't disagree with you but how do you enforce style and class? I've seen things on Princess that would make your eyes water but "technically" they were following the dress code. Some of the Prom dresses that are 20 years old and 2 sizes too small, men with stained shirts with buttons straining, it's not pretty but they're following the guidelines.

 

I think this is why we're so over them. It's not like attending a black tie event on land it's become a bit of a farce to see what you can get away with to eat in the MDR. People just seem to have a no clue how to dress appropriately for the occasion but Princess keeps hanging on and as been mentioned regularly compliance is getting worse, other lines are dropping them, it's a different world.

[UpcountryTravelers]

...... Formal? It's not a tux but I do dress nicely for formal nights and I am well within the Princess guidelines.

 

Actually, a tuxedo is not "formal". It is "evening wear", aka "black tie". "Formal" is white tie, one step up from "black tie". (Look it up.) We Americans have a very loose definition of "formal" in the first place. (And, yes, I have gone "white tie" on a cruise ship. The kilt and regulation doublet.)

 

Nevertheless, for men, a nice suit and tie... and up... is usually sufficient for "formal night". I enjoy seeing the variety, and might show up in tuxedo, or white dinner jacket, or full blown kilt and all accessories. The latter is weighty, so I don't do it when we are flying. But we usually drive to Ft. Lauderdale.......

[shredie]

I love a man in a kilt! (I also really like bagpipes, too. Really. There's a bagpipe band I heard once in Toronto that was fabulous! That's what Princess needs, bagpipes on formal night.)

[jgpdx]

I love a man in a kilt! (I also really like bagpipes, too. Really. There's a bagpipe band I heard once in Toronto that was fabulous! That's what Princess needs, bagpipes on formal night.)

 

I draw the line at accordions:)!

[UpcountryTravelers]

I love a man in a kilt! (I also really like bagpipes, too. Really. There's a bagpipe band I heard once in Toronto that was fabulous! That's what Princess needs, bagpipes on formal night.)

 

Have you ever seen the band Albanach?

[SoCal Cruiser78]

Actually, a tuxedo is not "formal". It is "evening wear", aka "black tie". "Formal" is white tie, one step up from "black tie". (Look it up.) We Americans have a very loose definition of "formal" in the first place. (And, yes, I have gone "white tie" on a cruise ship. The kilt and regulation doublet.)

 

A bit OT: You are correct! Black tie events are, strictly speaking, referred to as semi-formal. It started, IIRC, when the Prince of Wales (in the 19th century) wanted something less bothersome than the tails traditionally worn at dinner at the time. So the tails were removed, and black tie substituted for white for less formal events, such as dinners at home or the country club. The term formal or white tie was/is still used for the most formal of events, which includes tails and a waistcoast (similar to a vest). I am a wealth of useless information ;).

Edited September 3, 2015 by SoCal Cruiser78

[Steelers36]

I love a man in a kilt! (I also really like bagpipes, too. Really. There's a bagpipe band I heard once in Toronto that was fabulous! That's what Princess needs, bagpipes on formal night.)

 

It might have been the Toronto Police band? They have a very good one.

[mek]

Can you imagine how far down the dress would go if the policies/suggestions were relaxed or removed? There are always those that would continue pushing. I can only imagine how it would look in the DR. Not something that I want to see at all on Princess.

 

I'm one of the people who wishes "formal night" would just go away and in place of that have Princess really enforce a casual dress code that does not allow shorts, sleeveless tops on men, tacky t-shirts, baseball hats in the MDR in the evening. DH and I always follow the dress code, but I would enjoy being able to eat in the MDR on all nights dressed casually. Most restaurants in Cincinnati have adopted a casual dress code - Ruth's Chris, Mortons, etc. There are only a very few left where I would feel out of place unless I dressed up and DH wore a suit. Casual to me does not mean looking like a slob and that's where the cruise lines could step up and enforce dress codes.

Edited September 3, 2015 by mek

[Duck Duck Cruise]

I would be curious to hear from those on this thread ...........What is your age? It would be interesting to know what demographics of age groups / generation that are holding on to dressing formal and which are not. This is ours.

 

60 Female No Formal

63 Male No Formal

[Cruise Junky]

I would be curious to hear from those on this thread ...........What is your age? It would be interesting to know what demographics of age groups / generation that are holding on to dressing formal and which are not. This is ours.

 

60 Female No Formal

63 Male No Formal

 

49 female. No formal

62 male. No Formal

Edited September 3, 2015 by Cruise Junky

[JimmyVWine]

I'm one of the people who wishes "formal night" would just go away and in place of that have Princess really enforce a casual dress code that does not allow shorts, sleeveless tops on men, tacky t-shirts, baseball hats in the MDR in the evening.

While there is much to this, I actually think that it places more pressure on the cruise line to enforce what amounts to an amorphous dress code. For example, your suggestion would prohibit "tacky t-shirts". Who gets to make the call on tackiness? Right now, we all seem to agree that the lack of strict enforcement of the current Formal Night dress code derives from an unwillingness to offend passengers and a desire to avoid confrontation at all costs. Can you imagine a crew member having to approach a passenger and telling them that their "favorite t-shirt" is too tacky for admission into the MDR? Never happen. So the idea of "strict" enforcement of anything is pretty much out of the question as long as the cruise line wants to avoid confrontation. So which is better...loose enforcement of a fairly strict dress code or loose enforcement of a loose dress code? For people who want to retain a more elegant atmosphere once every three or four days, the latter would never suffice. There are many other cruise lines that have exactly the type of dress code that you describe, every night of the week. Perhaps customers just need to do a better job of marrying their wants and needs to the cruise line that best provide those, instead of trying to force changes on cruise lines that do not provide what they want and need.

[JimmyVWine]

I would be curious to hear from those on this thread ...........What is your age? It would be interesting to know what demographics of age groups / generation that are holding on to dressing formal and which are not. This is ours.

 

60 Female No Formal

63 Male No Formal

 

52...Male...Formal (Sometimes tuxedo, in the tropics, Dinner Jacket)

52...Female...Formal

17...Female...Full-on Ball Gown and shoes that I am still paying for.

[moosenaroundtheship]

We were on the Pacific Princess last Nov. Table next to us four men wore baseball hats and sandals every night including formal nights in the main dinning room. Someone did ask them why they could not remove their hats during dinner and they said "we paid a ton of $$ on this cruise and we are going to dress as we like and if you don't like it then leave. How rude.

[JimmyVWine]

they said "we paid a ton of $$ on this cruise and we are going to dress as we like...

So I guess when they sail on Crystal, they strip naked! :eek:

Edited September 3, 2015 by JimmyVWine

[oskidunker]

67 formal

[Steelers36]

I would be curious to hear from those on this thread ...........What is your age? It would be interesting to know what demographics of age groups / generation that are holding on to dressing formal and which are not. This is ours.

 

60 Female No Formal

63 Male No Formal

 

60 Female Dressy, no formal

61 Male Dressy, no formal

[Steelers36]

I'm one of the people who wishes "formal night" would just go away and in place of that have Princess really enforce a casual dress code that does not allow shorts, sleeveless tops on men, tacky t-shirts, baseball hats in the MDR in the evening. DH and I always follow the dress code, but I would enjoy being able to eat in the MDR on all nights dressed casually. Most restaurants in Cincinnati have adopted a casual dress code - Ruth's Chris, Mortons, etc. There are only a very few left where I would feel out of place unless I dressed up and DH wore a suit. Casual to me does not mean looking like a slob and that's where the cruise lines could step up and enforce dress codes.

 

Interesting comment about restaurants.

 

Princess use that allegory under the "smart casual" recommedation, and I quote:

"Guest attire should be in keeping with what they would wear to a nice restaurant at home." One would think it obvious. Agree with your sentiments on enforcement.