Service Charge (Tips) Increase

[sail7seas]

Thank you for the explanation. I still say HAL should tell you why they are charging you more after you have made final payment. Would seem to save a lot of phone calls to Seattle if they would just offer an explanation when they send you an additional bill.

 

I agree.

Did you use a TA?

In the past when we have had an increase or decrease in port charges, HAL always noted it.

 

[sail7seas]

The HSC conversation is separate from the for-profit business conversation. Yes, HAL is in business to make a profit. I am not sure that that means they can't pay their crew this so-called "living wage." After all, if the current arrangement for paying them is in place so the CREW doesn't have to pay higher taxes (wouldn't that be nice for us all), then it has nothing to do with HAL's profit.

 

Except that they can charge lower fares. But many people would rather pay higher fares and not have a separate HSC. What happens on the other end is not a passenger's concern.

 

What is confusing me is what difference it makes to some if they pay the HSC as part of their fare or as part of their On Board Account? I know the difference why cruise lines don't want to charge it in the fare but why does anyone care if it is charged to their OBA?

 

[frugaltravel]

What is confusing me is what difference it makes to some if they pay the HSC as part of their fare or as part of their On Board Account? I know the difference why cruise lines don't want to charge it in the fare but why does anyone care if it is charged to their OBA?

 

 

Most likely for the same reason most people don't like resort fees at hotels or baggage charges from airlines. Nickeling and diming. Why do so many people love Southwest, with "bags fly free" even though sometimes (often?) Southwest's fares are more than other airlines, even when you include bag fees the other airlines charge.

[doublebzz]

What is confusing me is what difference it makes to some if they pay the HSC as part of their fare or as part of their On Board Account? I know the difference why cruise lines don't want to charge it in the fare but why does anyone care if it is charged to their OBA?

 

 

As one poster indicated, about 30% of guests remove the HSC. So, presumably, if its part of the fare, it can't be removed and the playing field is essentially leveled.

[POA1]

As one poster indicated, about 30% of guests remove the HSC. So, presumably, if its part of the fare, it can't be removed and the playing field is essentially leveled.

Another poster said that it's less than 4% on North American sailings. Surely they can't both be right.

[dakrewser]

Another poster said that it's less than 4% on North American sailings. Surely they can't both be right.

 

Considering that tipping is less a part of the culture in Europe and the South Pacific than it is in North America, both could be right.

[Stratheden]

What is confusing me is what difference it makes to some if they pay the HSC as part of their fare or as part of their On Board Account? I know the difference why cruise lines don't want to charge it in the fare but why does anyone care if it is charged to their OBA?

 

 

It would be interesting to know which nationalities remove the HSC. I do not imagine many from the US and perhaps Canada would remove it as they live in a tipping environment.

 

Those who live in a non tipping environment (which is a large proportion of the rest of the world) would be more likely to remove the HSC. They are unused to tipping. You don't tip people to do a good job. It is part of their job description and you just do it.

 

That is why the HSC should be included in the fare. It is part of the fare. It is the employees salaries.

[pv girl]

When touring in Europe - where supposedly tipping is not normal or, in restaurants, included as a service charge - we have seen the plate at the exit door in canal boat cruises in Amsterdam, suggested tips for guide and driver on websites for independent port tours in Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Russia. So extra tips seem assumed where supposedly the people are paid a living wage. Do Australians and other cultures who do not believe in extra tipping follow these norms or do they avoid tipping? Just curious.

 

If you look at NCL Hawaii cruises, the prices per diem are higher than normal "beachy" type cruises to Carib. or Mexico. I read somewhere that this is because they are required to pay higher U.S. type wages for these cruises since they are U.S. flagged and operate only in U.S. waters. So cruise prices might rise if cruise lines adopted wage rules other than their flagged countries.

[cbr663]

What is confusing me is what difference it makes to some if they pay the HSC as part of their fare or as part of their On Board Account? I know the difference why cruise lines don't want to charge it in the fare but why does anyone care if it is charged to their OBA?

 

The difference is that pricing transparency helps contribute to a wonderful cruise experience by building confidence and trust between the cruise line and the traveler. A pricing strategy that catches cruisers by surprise often leaves the cruiser feeling disappointed, or even worst, feeling that they were deceived or conned.

 

The sad thing about this is that I would expect that this primarily affects first time cruisers. The end result is that all the expense and hard work that went into attracting a new cruiser can be lost on a policy that is easily changed.

[POA1]

Considering that tipping is less a part of the culture in Europe and the South Pacific than it is in North America, both could be right.

Given the percentage of North American customers versus European and South Pacific (?) customers on HAL, it would be hard to reconcile this. Always willing to see the math though.

[kazu]

It would be interesting to know which nationalities remove the HSC. I do not imagine many from the US and perhaps Canada would remove it as they live in a tipping environment.

 

Those who live in a non tipping environment (which is a large proportion of the rest of the world) would be more likely to remove the HSC. They are unused to tipping. You don't tip people to do a good job. It is part of their job description and you just do it.

 

That is why the HSC should be included in the fare. It is part of the fare. It is the employees salaries.

 

We have been on cruises in Australia, New Zealand and Europe. While I don't stand at the front desk to see who does what, there are times it is hard not to hear and surprisingly, the only ones I have heard removing them (including the Neptune Lounge) were North Americans.

 

So, North Americans do remove them, it appears.

 

My observation is by no means all encompassing, just what my experience.

Edited September 28, 2015 by kazu

[cruz chic]

The difference is that pricing transparency helps contribute to a wonderful cruise experience by building confidence and trust between the cruise line and the traveler. A pricing strategy that catches cruisers by surprise often leaves the cruiser feeling disappointed, or even worst, feeling that they were deceived or conned.

 

The sad thing about this is that I would expect that this primarily affects first time cruisers. The end result is that all the expense and hard work that went into attracting a new cruiser can be lost on a policy that is easily changed.

 

Why should cruisers be surprised? The information is available online and is easy to access.

Edited September 28, 2015 by cruz chic

[Stratheden]

When touring in Europe - where supposedly tipping is not normal or, in restaurants, included as a service charge - we have seen the plate at the exit door in canal boat cruises in Amsterdam, suggested tips for guide and driver on websites for independent port tours in Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Russia. So extra tips seem assumed where supposedly the people are paid a living wage. Do Australians and other cultures who do not believe in extra tipping follow these norms or do they avoid tipping? Just curious.

 

If you look at NCL Hawaii cruises, the prices per diem are higher than normal "beachy" type cruises to Carib. or Mexico. I read somewhere that this is because they are required to pay higher U.S. type wages for these cruises since they are U.S. flagged and operate only in U.S. waters. So cruise prices might rise if cruise lines adopted wage rules other than their flagged countries.

 

We probably would not put anything in a plate beside the door. Any tour operator who takes US citizens on a cruise would be silly not to put a plate at the exit door. :). I have never read a website that suggests tipping for guides and drivers. We don't do private tours. We take public transport and do our own thing.

 

We do tip the drivers of private transfers between home/airport/ship if they have been pleasant and carried our bags. One (in Italy) refused the tip and said she was all inclusive in the price.

 

We mostly travel on all inclusive holidays that are advertised in Australia. Many all inclusive land/rail/cruise tours are sold in Australia that include cruising on Holland America. We obviously pay more for our trips because tips are included. We prefer it that way. We have absolutely no idea who to tip nor how much to tip.

 

One day in NYC we took a taxi from Penn Station to our hotel. By the time we got to our room we had tipped four people. I am sure we overtipped but we didn't have a clue.

[Watson's aunt]

You can take it off and not pay anything if you want. I don't like the cruise companies telling me what I have to tip..

 

But you agree to pay the cruise fare... Hope you have family members that work for tips and feel the same wat.. Hope the money you save will make you happy.But HAl staff that bent over to serve you will not be fired because you refused to tip

[Watson's aunt]

I'm not going to fire bullets, but I would have to ask: what do you call a living wage? From where most of these people come, a living wage is drastically different for them as it is for us.

 

If you're basing it on western standards, then you can probably kiss the low fares you are likely to pay goodbye.

 

I have never had an issue tipping the staff who serves me, but I do resent a bit "tipping" the rest of the staff. It's just a way for the lines to avoid paying out of their pocket and pay out of ours instead.

 

For what it's worth, I still tip each person who waits on me over and above the hotel charge, including the room attendant. I will easily (and happily) tip out a good $150 to $200 more for a seven nighter above the service charge.

 

 

You do know they cannot kep it. It goes into the staff pol. thoses people who waited on you are then called to thier boss office to explain why you removed the tip

[POA1]

Why should cruisers be surprised? The information is available online and is easy to access.

I don't know what it looks like from your neck of the woods, but when we book Australian hotels, the quoted rates do not include GST. There's some verbiage that states that GST will be collected, but it's not part of the room rate.

 

How do we remove this?

[Watson's aunt]

this is not cruise. but i have a friend from Ca San Francisco.. we travrl quite a bit. We went out to eat here in Massachusetts. I asked the waitress how much she made a hour. It was a little over $3.00. She was stunned I think she said they would make over $$. I forget I want to say 12.00+

 

 

Mary

[Vict0riann]

I don't know what it looks like from your neck of the woods, but when we book Australian hotels, the quoted rates do not include GST. There's some verbiage that states that GST will be collected, but it's not part of the room rate.

 

How do we remove this?

 

And then, if you have a really good room, you might give an amount of money (decided upon by you) to some individual government official!:D

[serendipity1499]

Thank you for the explanation. I still say HAL should tell you why they are charging you more after you have made final payment. Would seem to save a lot of phone calls to Seattle if they would just offer an explanation when they send you an additional bill.

 

HAL does NOT send you an additional bill.. The HSC is billed to your on board account & HAL does tell you this in advance of your cruise..It is clearly written in the "Know Before YOU Go" Booklet & on their WEB site!! I quoted the WEB site & the printed FAQ's in my post above.

 

Did you bother to read any of this information which is always available before you paid for & went on your cruise? .. It is very easy to read & understand ... Why would anyone who books a cruise NOT read the printed material & instead call Seattle to complain? And why can't adults take responsibility for their own mistakes instead of placing the blame on someone else?

 

 

As one poster indicated, about 30% of guests remove the HSC. So, presumably, if its part of the fare, it can't be removed and the playing field is essentially leveled.

 

I believe you are Misquoting me as I'm the only poster on this thread who mentioned 30%... I never said it was 30% who removed the HSC..

In my post No 29 I quoted Bruce Muzz, a cruise line Senior Officer who said that before the HSC was put in place 30% of Cruisers never tipped anything.. This is where you can read his post:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showt...=620368&page=2

 

IMO HAL should follow what NCL is doing & NOT permit anyone to remove the HSC until they return home & give a good reason where the service was lacking...

 

If it is not me you are quoting I apologize, but if it is me please re-read my post.. Thank you

Edited September 29, 2015 by serendipity1499

[POA1]

And then, if you have a really good room, you might give an amount of money (decided upon by you) to some individual government official!:D

You know I'm just kidding, but it's amazing how quickly people remove "HSC," while not even blinking an eye at sales tax, hotel tax, etc. I'm sure everyone cruising out of Miami is totally on board about paying for the Marlins ballpark.

[tassietravellers]

When touring in Europe - where supposedly tipping is not normal or, in restaurants, included as a service charge - we have seen the plate at the exit door in canal boat cruises in Amsterdam, suggested tips for guide and driver on websites for independent port tours in Italy, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Russia. So extra tips seem assumed where supposedly the people are paid a living wage. Do Australians and other cultures who do not believe in extra tipping follow these norms or do they avoid tipping? Just curious.

 

If you look at NCL Hawaii cruises, the prices per diem are higher than normal "beachy" type cruises to Carib. or Mexico. I read somewhere that this is because they are required to pay higher U.S. type wages for these cruises since they are U.S. flagged and operate only in U.S. waters. So cruise prices might rise if cruise lines adopted wage rules other than their flagged countries.

 

We are Australians, our cruises are booked and paid for with tips included.

 

We would never think of removing that or asking for a refund, we know how hard everyone works for us and we understand how tipping is a huge part of the culture of many other countries.

 

If we can afford to travel then we can afford to pay the tips, in Europe we always tip porters, day tour operators, taxi drivers, coach drivers etc not a lot , just a couple of euros each. Same with restaurants, even though a service charge is usually added.

 

Its not that we don't believe in tipping, its just that tipping isn't something that many Australians or New Zealanders are used to, unless they travel. At home we usually add a couple of dollars to a restaurant tab, but nothing like 10% or more, saying that I have been told that our meal prices are often a lot more expensive than say Nth America, but that would be because our hourly rates are higher and they are not relying on the tips to top up their wages.

 

Deb

[POA1]

We are Australians, our cruises are booked and paid for with tips included.

 

We would never think of removing that or asking for a refund, we know how hard everyone works for us and we understand how tipping is a huge part of the culture of many other countries.

 

If we can afford to travel then we can afford to pay the tips, in Europe we always tip porters, day tour operators, taxi drivers, coach drivers etc not a lot , just a couple of euros each. Same with restaurants, even though a service charge is usually added.

 

Its not that we don't believe in tipping, its just that tipping isn't something that many Australians or New Zealanders are used to, unless they travel. At home we usually add a couple of dollars to a restaurant tab, but nothing like 10% or more, saying that I have been told that our meal prices are often a lot more expensive than say Nth America, but that would be because our hourly rates are higher and they are not relying on the tips to top up their wages.

 

Deb

That makes sense. Adapt the price to the market. :)

[Stratheden]

I don't know what it looks like from your neck of the woods, but when we book Australian hotels, the quoted rates do not include GST. There's some verbiage that states that GST will be collected, but it's not part of the room rate.

 

How do we remove this?

 

I am wondering if you are looking at an Australian website or an American website. It is illegal to advertise anything on an Australian website that doesn't include GST.

 

As you know GST is a sales tax and we always pay sales tax where ever we travel. We had a €2 hotel bill in Rome which was some sort of tax for one night.

 

We don't mind paying any charge when we travel - we do what ever is appropriate in the country that we are in. That does not mean that we like the way things are advertised.

[serendipity1499]

We are Australians, our cruises are booked and paid for with tips included.

 

We would never think of removing that or asking for a refund, we know how hard everyone works for us and we understand how tipping is a huge part of the culture of many other countries.

 

If we can afford to travel then we can afford to pay the tips, in Europe we always tip porters, day tour operators, taxi drivers, coach drivers etc not a lot , just a couple of euros each. Same with restaurants, even though a service charge is usually added.

 

Its not that we don't believe in tipping, its just that tipping isn't something that many Australians or New Zealanders are used to, unless they travel. At home we usually add a couple of dollars to a restaurant tab, but nothing like 10% or more, saying that I have been told that our meal prices are often a lot more expensive than say Nth America, but that would be because our hourly rates are higher and they are not relying on the tips to top up their wages.

 

Deb

 

Completely understand.. Must confess..

 

When NCL first started the Hotel Service Charge, we were doing a trans-Atlantic & were irate that NCL would add this to our on-board account .. Believe it was about 15 years ago,... My Friend & I even went down to talk to the Purser as our DH's were adamant that tips should only be given to those who personally served us & not billed to our account.. We even gave NCL instructions what percentage should go to each Steward...Boy were we naïve.. ;)

 

We changed our minds completely after we understood why it was necessary only because we never understood that so many others did not always tip & the Cruise Lines were in danger of loosing their good workers..

 

Since understanding why the HSC is necessary, we go along with it by leaving it in place... In addition, we usually give an extra small token of our appreciation to special crew members who work so hard to make our cruises so wonderful..

 

We are truly blessed to be able to take these wonderful cruise vacations, something that DH's & my Parents could never do..:)

Edited September 29, 2015 by serendipity1499

[LMaxwell]

thoses people who waited on you are then called to thier boss office to explain why you removed the tip

 

False