Service Charge (Tips) Increase

[POA1]

I am wondering if you are looking at an Australian website or an American website. It is illegal to advertise anything on an Australian website that doesn't include GST.

 

As you know GST is a sales tax and we always pay sales tax where ever we travel. We had a €2 hotel bill in Rome which was some sort of tax for one night.

 

We don't mind paying any charge when we travel - we do what ever is appropriate in the country that we are in. That does not mean that we like the way things are advertised.

I'm not sure, but if I look at Marriott, Hilton, or Starwood - and price out hotels in Melbourne or Sydney - the quoted price is not the full, end of stay cost. As long as we can back out any costs not quoted, that's completely fair.

[3rdGenCunarder]

HAL does NOT send you an additional bill.. The HSC is billed to your on board account & HAL does tell you this in advance of your cruise..It is clearly written in the "Know Before YOU Go" Booklet & on their WEB site!! I quoted the WEB site & the printed FAQ's in my post above.

 

Did you bother to read any of this information which is always available before you paid for & went on your cruise? .. It is very easy to read & understand ... Why would anyone who books a cruise NOT read the printed material & instead call Seattle to complain? And why can't adults take responsibility for their own mistakes instead of placing the blame on someone else?

 

I trimmed the post I quoted because I want to address (agree with) this part. There have been a lot of comments about people being surprised by the HSC. It's so easy to go online that I don't understand why people don't do more research. This idea of a service charge is not new, and even if people don't come from a "tipping culture" as Americans do, I would think they'd look up information about tax, like how much is a country's sales tax/VAT. And if they looked for that, they'd see information about tipping and service charges.

 

Service charges and sources of information about them are not new. Before we could do our travel research online, there were guidebooks. Remember Fodor and Frommer? I used to buy guidebooks or borrow them from the library when I was planning a trip. Reading this thread reminded me that I still had an old Fodor's for Bermuda. So I went to my travel book collection and discovered that it's from 1991. And in the "Essential Information" chapter, there was an entry about what "will it cost"--including an explanation of service charges added by hotels and restaurants. (And no instructions on how to remove them)

[cruz chic]

I trimmed the post I quoted because I want to address (agree with) this part. There have been a lot of comments about people being surprised by the HSC. It's so easy to go online that I don't understand why people don't do more research. This idea of a service charge is not new, and even if people don't come from a "tipping culture" as Americans do, I would think they'd look up information about tax, like how much is a country's sales tax/VAT. And if they looked for that, they'd see information about tipping and service charges.

 

Service charges and sources of information about them are not new. Before we could do our travel research online, there were guidebooks. Remember Fodor and Frommer? I used to buy guidebooks or borrow them from the library when I was planning a trip. Reading this thread reminded me that I still had an old Fodor's for Bermuda. So I went to my travel book collection and discovered that it's from 1991. And in the "Essential Information" chapter, there was an entry about what "will it cost"--including an explanation of service charges added by hotels and restaurants. (And no instructions on how to remove them)

 

Yes, but why take responsibility for anything ;)?

[dakrewser]

I don't know what it looks like from your neck of the woods, but when we book Australian hotels, the quoted rates do not include GST. There's some verbiage that states that GST will be collected, but it's not part of the room rate.

 

How do we remove this?

 

The same can be said about European prices and VAT.

[POA1]

The same can be said about European prices and VAT.

True. You can have the VAT refunded, but it's much more complicated than removing the HSC.

[GUT2407]

Why should cruisers be surprised? The information is available online and is easy to access.

 

And why would they go looking for it if they didn't expect it?

[LMaxwell]

And why would they go looking for it if they didn't expect it?

 

It certainly is not clear and transparent right up front or even during the booking process. HAL is not the only guilty party. "They all do it"

[GUT2407]

It certainly is not clear and transparent right up front or even during the booking process. HAL is not the only guilty party. "They all do it"

 

A. They don't all do it, some quote a price and then that's what ou pay.

 

B. they all do it doesn't make it any better.

 

I know I'll get flamed and told its all about taxes and commissions to agents (neither of which I accept) but why not just charge a fare and be done with it?

 

Really it's not that hard.

[tassietravellers]

I don't know what it looks like from your neck of the woods, but when we book Australian hotels, the quoted rates do not include GST. There's some verbiage that states that GST will be collected, but it's not part of the room rate.

 

How do we remove this?

 

GST cant be removed but you can claim it back at the airport etc when you leave Australia. All goods and services bought in Australia attract GST, you will be charged it on your room rate. There are some exceptions, as in basic foods (not processed foods or restaurant food) and medication.

 

This site might help:

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Tour/Are-you-a-traveller

 

Deb

[LMaxwell]

A. They don't all do it, some quote a price and then that's what ou pay.

 

B. they all do it doesn't make it any better.

 

Agreed. I used quotations but sometimes tone and expression is hard to convey.

[GUT2407]

Agreed. I used quotations but sometimes tone and expression is hard to convey.

 

Sorry for the misunderstanding.

[GUT2407]

GST cant be removed but you can claim it back at the airport etc when you leave Australia. All goods and services bought in Australia attract GST, you will be charged it on your room rate. There are some exceptions, as in basic foods (not processed foods or restaurant food) and medication.

 

This site might help:

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Tour/Are-you-a-traveller

 

Deb

 

But you can't claim back the GST In items consumed in Australia uh as hotel rooms and meals, only on some goods you are taking out of the country.

[POA1]

How does P&O Australia handle the service charges? Paid up front? Built into the fares?

[dakrewser]

I know I'll get flamed and told its all about taxes and commissions to agents (neither of which I accept)

 

Whether you "accept" it our not, that IS the reason behind the seperate charge. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, no opinion can override facts.

[cruz chic]

And why would they go looking for it if they didn't expect it?

 

It's in the know before you go info booklet. I guess if you don't agree with it you don't need to know it. You don't have to hunt for it.

Edited September 29, 2015 by cruz chic

[LMaxwell]

Whether you "accept" it our not, that IS the reason behind the seperate charge. While everyone is entitled to an opinion, no opinion can override facts.

 

I hear it all the time, because of taxes and commissions, but that doesn't explain why. When there is a higher cruise fare, there are higher commissions. I'd assume any increase in tax to the companies (which pay very little US taxed to start) would just be passed through to customers anyway.

 

So while I can accept the standard issue line, it does not make sense and I don't understand why the current setup is necessary. can you shed any light on that?

[LMaxwell]

It's in the know before you go info booklet. I guess if you don't agree with it you don't need to know it. You don't have to hunt for it.

 

Go walk into 10 different travel agencies, call 10 different online trave agencies, and then call HAL direct to book. I will bet heavily that 21 out of 21 of them do not mention the service charge during the booking process. That is the point here: It is not up front and transparent in the cruise pricing and people who are not seasoned may see it as a sneaky add on. Yes, you are 100% right, it is in a document on HAL's website, and not "hidden" per se, but it certainly requires a more in depth study than just booking a cruise and giving them your credit card number.

 

I am waiting to hear a good explanation on why it isn't as up front and clear as cabin pricing. That would eliminate a great deal of issues.

[SeaBands]

we prepaid our room but will be charged a resort fee each day for towels, internet, beach chairs, etc. The HSC on board is the same to us. We will leave a tip for the maid at the hotel and we will tip staff on board who provide us with good service. It would be easier if it was included but the amount is negligible as we almost always have OBCs provided by HAL to offset this.

[RuthC]

I know I'll get flamed and told its all about taxes and commissions to agents (neither of which I accept) but why not just charge a fare and be done with it?

 

Really it's not that hard.

As has been explained more times than I can count, workers who share in the HSC have to pay fees to the agencies who place them, based on their wages; they do not have to pay fees based on their "tips". In order to generate the $12.50 per day in HSC via an increase in fares, the cruiselines would have to increase the daily fare by much more than that. I, for one, do not care to pay an additional $20-25 per day just to get an extra $12.50 per day to various crew.

 

Another point that has not been presented is solo cruisers. With the HSC, solos are charged the per person daily rate. If it were added to the fare, they would be paying double on that amount, too. I have my doubts that the crew would be receiving that double, though.

Then there's the question of how it would work with "3rd & 4th passengers sail free". You can't add the HSC to their fare when they don't pay a fare at all.

 

Really, it's not all that hard.

[cbr663]

Collecting the HSC as a portion of the fare does not mean that you are increasing the crews' wages. It just changes the timing of the collection, that's all. Other cruise lines do it by requiring the pre-payment of tips upfront and it seems to work fine. If you have to pre-pay something upfront, obviously the cruise line has to be transparent about it.

 

The argument that HAL should never increase wages as the crew would have to pay more to landing agents is absurd imo. That's akin to refusing a pay raise from your boss as you would now have to pay more income taxes. Under that argument, crew wages would never increase.

 

As for 3rd or 4th guests travelling for free and not having a fare, that is just a simple accounting function. Debit the account the cost of the fare and HSC, and then simply credit the account the fare amount leaving the HSC as the only amount owing.

 

Other cruise lines have shown that it can work. Really, it's not all that hard.

[DeeniEncinitas]

The same can be said about European prices and VAT.

 

Absolutely! I agree with you and commented that in my quote.

Denise:)

[Lizzie68]

GST cant be removed but you can claim it back at the airport etc when you leave Australia. All goods and services bought in Australia attract GST, you will be charged it on your room rate. There are some exceptions, as in basic foods (not processed foods or restaurant food) and medication.

 

This site might help:

 

https://www.border.gov.au/Trav/Ente/Tour/Are-you-a-traveller

 

Deb

 

The same is true of VAT (the same tax) when leaving the UK.

[dakrewser]

Collecting the HSC as a portion of the fare does not mean that you are increasing the crews' wages. It just changes the timing of the collection, that's all. Other cruise lines do it by requiring the pre-payment of tips upfront and it seems to work fine. If you have to pre-pay something upfront, obviously the cruise line has to be transparent about it.

 

The argument that HAL should never increase wages as the crew would have to pay more to landing agents is absurd imo. That's akin to refusing a pay raise from your boss as you would now have to pay more income taxes. Under that argument, crew wages would never increase.

 

As for 3rd or 4th guests travelling for free and not having a fare, that is just a simple accounting function. Debit the account the cost of the fare and HSC, and then simply credit the account the fare amount leaving the HSC as the only amount owing.

 

 

And where do the admin fees for all this debiting and crediting get charged?

 

But perhaps you should head to Seattle and educate HAL's management about how easy it would be. And what the benefits (for them) would be.

[hrhdhd]

As has been explained more times than I can count, workers who share in the HSC have to pay fees to the agencies who place them, based on their wages; they do not have to pay fees based on their "tips". In order to generate the $12.50 per day in HSC via an increase in fares, the cruiselines would have to increase the daily fare by much more than that. I, for one, do not care to pay an additional $20-25 per day just to get an extra $12.50 per day to various crew.

 

Okay, so that's the system.

 

The crew agrees to it by having an agency place them.

 

I am not sure why I as a passenger am 1) expected to know that's the system [if I weren't on CC I wouldn't know and frankly wouldn't want to know; their employment and payment arrangements aren't my concern] and 2) expected to defend it.

[RuthC]

I am not sure why I as a passenger am 1) expected to know that's the system [if I weren't on CC I wouldn't know and frankly wouldn't want to know; their employment and payment arrangements aren't my concern] and 2) expected to defend it.

You aren't "expected" to do either of those things.

You are "expected" to pay the "HSC".