A twist on the Prinsendam's age

[rafinmd]

A few quotes from the Crystal forum:

 

I would think HAL has some of the oldest cruise ships still sailing-notably Prinsendam(former Royal Viking Sky or Sun) which means 40 years give or take.What about their other ships, and those of other lines? I am just curious. Maybe I am unique but I don't worry about the age of the ship very much .It is the companies in charge of maintaining the ships, that I worry about more, given recent fiascos and semi-emergencies at sea....

 

Carolyn, it is still in service as part of HAL. I know that Roy goes on it from time to time.

 

Keith

The Prinsendam is HAL's oldest ship by a significant margin. The Statendam (1993) and Ryndam (1994) are both embarking their final voyages next week where they will go to Singapore for modifications and start sailing for P&O Australia. This will leave their next oldest ship, the Maasdam, at 22 years, just 2 years older than the Symphony. I have 75 days on the Prinsendam and, even after sailing premium Windstar and luxury Silversea, the Prinsendam is hands down my favorite non-Crystal ship.

 

I'm thinking of another twist here. HAL is reported to be committed to keeping the Prinsendam (now 27) for another 5 years and I've heard that at that time they would like to obtain a suitable replacement. That would seem to be close to the earliest time when the Symphony might become available. I think another year or 2 might be workable if HAL could make the announcement of the acquisition of the replacement while the current Prinsendam was still sailing).

 

Sadly, I think the economics of a mainstream ship would require some modifications that Crystal regulars would not like. I can kind of imagine the narrow sections of Palm Court being converted to a couple of suites on one side and a suite lounge on the other with the Crows Nest as only the forward portion and some other things like that. Still, I would greatly prefer that option to having the Symphony simply disappear. Speculation is wonderful.

 

Roy

 

 

Crystal's owners have committed to building 3 new ships in the near future, and the existing 2 could become available starting in the early 2020's soon after the Prinsendam's likely retirement. The ships are superbly maintained and built to top notch construction standards, and should be able to serve HAL for a number of years. I would think to be economically viable at least a hundred or so passengers would need to be added, and the result would not be like the Symphony of today, but that is true of the Prinsendam as well compared to the Royal Viking Sun. I would love to see this happen.

 

Roy

Edited September 29, 2015 by rafinmd

[kazu]

A few quotes from the Crystal forum:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Crystal's owners have committed to building 3 new ships in the near future, and the existing 2 could become available starting in the early 2020's soon after the Prinsendam's likely retirement. The ships are superbly maintained and built to top notch construction standards, and should be able to serve HAL for a number of years. I would think to be economically viable at least a hundred or so passengers would need to be added, and the result would not be like the Symphony of today, but that is true of the Prinsendam as well compared to the Royal Viking Sun. I would love to see this happen.

 

Roy

 

It would be very nice if the Prinsendam was replaced.

 

I would like to think that HAL has the foresight to see that those that enjoy this type of ship could go to other lines if she is not replaced, but who knows?

 

Frankly, I would prefer that the ship was purchased as part of the Prinsendam's charm (for us) is that she was not built by HAL and is unique.

 

fingers crossed that she is replaced when the time comes ;)

[iancal]

We have been on the Symphony. We have not been on the Prinsendam.

 

But one thing that keeps coming through to us on this forum and on the reviews is the noticeable difference in maintenance and ongoing ship upgrades between the two and between other similar mass market cruise lines.

 

HAL appears to cut corners when it comes to ship maitenance. They add cabins to ships whose HVAC and plumbing systems are not designed to accommodate (as do some other lines). And these are systems that loose efficiency over time.

 

It is one reason why HAL has slipped on our preferred list of cruise lines.

Edited September 30, 2015 by iancal

[sammiedawg]

We have been on the Symphony. We have not been on the Prinsendam.

 

But one thing that keeps coming through to us on this forum and on the reviews is the noticeable difference in maintenance and ongoing ship upgrades between the two and between other similar mass market cruise lines.

 

HAL appears to cut corners when it comes to ship maitenance. They add cabins to ships whose HVAC and plumbing systems are not designed to accommodate (as do some other lines). And these are systems that loose efficiency over time.

 

It is one reason why HAL has slipped on our preferred list of cruise lines.

 

Totally agree about HAL ship maintenance slipping badly.

I've previously shared observations about Prinsendam, once was enough for us. I know the suites are nice and probably in tip top shape but our OV cabin was on the rough side. Our issues including a musty smell, AC that died repeatedly during the night and mid afternoon. I failed to grasp the charm of this ship that others seem to appreciate. You are either a fan or not a fan.

 

I say if you want a small ship in great condition spend a little more money and move up to premium or luxury lines.

[Padraic]

I guess maybe I have had exceptional luck with the Princendam. I have been on the P-dam for five cruises and have had no problems. It is without a doubt my favorite ship in the fleet.

[Dave in NJ]

Multiple trips on the Prinsendam, never anything to complain about though perhaps I'm a bit more tolerant of a chip here or there on painted surfaces than others; given that spares are probably hard to find I've thought it to be in near-impeccable condition. As to a replacement, not under the HAL banner I'm told as that would infringe on Seabourn's segment.

 

But back for a moment to older ships, I see Prinsendam's older fleetmate Royal Viking Sea (1973), now MS Albatross for Phoenix Reisen, docked today at Saguenay - it looks just lovely!

 

http://tourisme.saguenay.ca/en/croisieres-internationales/camera

Edited September 30, 2015 by Dave in NJ

[Hlitner]

Prinsendam is also our favorite HAL ship and we, like many P'Dam lovers, are very tolerant of the old ship's many faults. It still remains the only ship (and we have been on about 60 ships) where we saw a boarded-up window (a large window in the Crow's Nest) for an entire cruise. And we have have returned to the P'Dam on later cruises when things that were broken an year earlier were still broken. The explanation has always been that they just do not make parts (anymore) for quite a few items on that ship.

 

Hank

[LindaM]

Totally agree about HAL ship maintenance slipping badly.

I've previously shared observations about Prinsendam, once was enough for us. I know the suites are nice and probably in tip top shape but our OV cabin was on the rough side. Our issues including a musty smell, AC that died repeatedly during the night and mid afternoon. I failed to grasp the charm of this ship that others seem to appreciate. You are either a fan or not a fan.

 

I say if you want a small ship in great condition spend a little more money and move up to premium or luxury lines.

 

It depends on your tolerance. We sailed Regent twice....and complained about the food and cabin. We all like something different. I expected more of Regent because of what we paid. FYI---it is a luxury line, one up on Oceania. The food and service were average main stream, at least to us. So, I do understand your dislike of P'dam because you felt you paid too much...we felt the same about Regent Navigator.

[kazu]

It depends on your tolerance. We sailed Regent twice....and complained about the food and cabin. We all like something different. I expected more of Regent because of what we paid. FYI---it is a luxury line, one up on Oceania. The food and service were average main stream, at least to us. So, I do understand your dislike of P'dam because you felt you paid too much...we felt the same about Regent Navigator.

 

don't depress me Linda - we sail on Oceania Riviera in a few weeks. I am trying not to get my expectations to high. ;)

 

As to the Prisendam, the PG still sparkles as the best in the fleet for me although the Westerdam was a very close second.

 

Of all the ships in the HAL fleet while this ship was under the care of Captain Gunderson, it was well cared for. Yes, some windows are hard to get and they have to wait. They are specially made, but the ship shines from top to bottom. It's the only ship where I saw officers inspecting cleaning (including the Captain) and looking where I never would. While I didn't see officers inspecting on our last cruise, (and I could have missed it) the maintenance seemed to be at the same level to me.

 

Everyone has their own opinions on this ship - love it or hate it (maybe not that strong - how about - worth the money or not worth the money).

 

There are a lot of aficionados of this ship and for HAL to ignore this group that will pay extra $ is truly a foolish move. JMO.

Edited September 30, 2015 by kazu

[LindaM]

don't depress me Linda - we sail on Oceania Riviera in a few weeks. I am trying not to get my expectations to high. ;)

 

As to the Prisendam, the PG still sparkles as the best in the fleet for me although the Westerdam was a very close second.

 

Of all the ships in the HAL fleet while this ship was under the care of Captain Gunderson, it was well cared for. Yes, some windows are hard to get and they have to wait. They are specially made, but the ship shines from top to bottom. It's the only ship where I saw officers inspecting cleaning (including the Captain) and looking where I never would. While I didn't see officers inspecting on our last cruise, (and I could have missed it) the maintenance seemed to be at the same level to me.

 

Everyone has their own opinions on this ship - love it or hate it (maybe not that strong - how about - worth the money or not worth the money).

 

 

There are a lot of aficionados of this ship and for HAL to ignore this group that will pay extra $ is truly a foolish move. JMO.

 

Jacqui,

 

I would never try to depress you! And I truly hope HAL will find a ship to take the place of P'dam when the time comes---for those of us who like small ships. I was just trying to get across that switching to a more expensive line might not make a person more satisfied than they are with P'dam. Everyone likes something different. The Regent CC people were madder than blazes at me for criticizing Navigator. The first time I thought she was equal to P'dam...second time inferior. I am hoping you have a great time on Oceania, and compare P'dam favorably to it!!

 

Linda

[kazu]

Jacqui,

 

I would never try to depress you! And I truly hope HAL will find a ship to take the place of P'dam when the time comes---for those of us who like small ships. I was just trying to get across that switching to a more expensive line might not make a person more satisfied than they are with P'dam. Everyone likes something different. The Regent CC people were madder than blazes at me for criticizing Navigator. The first time I thought she was equal to P'dam...second time inferior. I am hoping you have a great time on Oceania, and compare P'dam favorably to it!!

 

Linda

 

No worries Linda - I am going with an open mind :)

 

Looking forward to it as I do every adventure :)

 

I am like a duck out of water so to speak, but I have learned to swim pretty fast :eek: We have a great roll call that has been helpful and I have been very fortunate to have some CC members to help me off boards and the board on O is very good if you search first.

 

No worries - we are going and I will be doing a live thread. And I will connect here. I may do a few notes for this board if they are interested that will not be of interest to the O board as they are used to O as we are not.

 

 

 

cheers - smooth seas to you always :)

[cruisingxpert]

don't depress me Linda - we sail on Oceania Riviera in a few weeks. I am trying not to get my expectations to high. ;)

 

As to the Prisendam, the PG still sparkles as the best in the fleet for me although the Westerdam was a very close second.

 

Everyone has their own opinions on this ship - love it or hate it (maybe not that strong - how about - worth the money or not worth the money).

 

There are a lot of aficionados of this ship and for HAL to ignore this group that will pay extra $ is truly a foolish move. JMO.

 

I think you will like Riviera. Prinsendam compares more to Oceania R ships like Regatta. Regatta is 30277 tons and 349 cabins whereas Prinsendam is 37983 tons and 419 cabins Space Ratio is same on both at 38

 

HAL Maasdam is 55575 tons, 629 cabins and holds 1258-1510 psgrs

 

Oceania Riviera is slightly bigger at 66084 tons, but same number of cabins - 629 and holds 1258-1447 psgrs

Interesting is the Space Ratio 37 for Maasdam and 46 for Riviera

 

I love the idea of a wrap around promenade but in reality I hardly ever use it. If the wrap around promenade is really important to you and you use it often, The Riviera might disappoint.

Edited September 30, 2015 by cruisingxpert

[kazu]

I think you will like Riviera. Prinsendam compares more to Oceania R ships like Regatta. Regatta is 30277 tons and 349 cabins whereas Prinsendam is 37983 tons and 419 cabins Space Ratio is same on both at 38

 

HAL Maasdam is 55575 tons, 629 cabins and holds 1258-1510 psgrs

 

Oceania Riviera is slightly bigger at 66084 tons, but same number of cabins - 629 and holds 1258-1447 psgrs

Interesting is the Space Ratio 37 for Maasdam and 46 for Riviera

 

I love the idea of a wrap around promenade but in reality I hardly ever use it. If the wrap around promenade is really important to you and you use it often, The Riviera might disappoint.

 

 

We do like our wrap around promenade but I knew Riviera didn't have it (DH might not have listened when I told him) when we booked - how much we will miss it is yet to be seen.

 

But we are going with open eyes :)

 

I am truly intrigued that Regatta has the same space ratio as the Prinsendam which gives the Prinsendam another thumbs up for us :)

 

I confess it always seemed roomier than that to us and never crowded.

 

I don't want to detract from the P'dam thread so suffice it to say I am sure we will be fine, but if the P'dam happened to be leaving from BCN in any where near our travel time period, we would have been on board :D

[sail7seas]

don't depress me Linda - we sail on Oceania Riviera in a few weeks. I am trying not to get my expectations to high. ;)

 

As to the Prisendam, the PG still sparkles as the best in the fleet for me although the Westerdam was a very close second.

 

Of all the ships in the HAL fleet while this ship was under the care of Captain Gunderson, it was well cared for. Yes, some windows are hard to get and they have to wait. They are specially made, but the ship shines from top to bottom. It's the only ship where I saw officers inspecting cleaning (including the Captain) and looking where I never would. While I didn't see officers inspecting on our last cruise, (and I could have missed it) the maintenance seemed to be at the same level to me.

 

Everyone has their own opinions on this ship - love it or hate it (maybe not that strong - how about - worth the money or not worth the money).

 

There are a lot of aficionados of this ship and for HAL to ignore this group that will pay extra $ is truly a foolish move. JMO.

 

 

 

Every HAL Captain does inspections of his ship. They are constantly aware of conditions aboard including regular inspections of crew cabins/areas.

 

It is not unique to any one ship for the Captain to know every inch of his ship. :)

 

[kazu]

Every HAL Captain does inspections of his ship. They are constantly aware of conditions aboard including regular inspections of crew cabins/areas.

 

It is not unique to any one ship for the Captain to know every inch of his ship. :)

 

 

Of course all captains inspect their ships, but there are inspections and there are inspections.

 

The Prinsendam is the only ship in the fleet that was with the same Captain from the day she was built to the best of my knowledge. Captain Gunderson came part and parcel with the P'dam when she came to HAL. He supervised her construction and was her captain until the day he retired.

 

I have been on HAL for many days - and I have certainly seen captains and officers inspecting but not like on this ship.

 

this was his "baby".

 

You would probably have to be on her to experience it before you could say it's all the same. JMO.

[Hlitner]

Every HAL Captain does inspections of his ship. They are constantly aware of conditions aboard including regular inspections of crew cabins/areas.

 

It is not unique to any one ship for the Captain to know every inch of his ship. :)

 

 

We must agree with the other poster that Captain Gunderson (now retired) was a very special cabin who seeming to be more involved with the Prinsendam then the typical Captain. The reason was pretty obvious for those that knew Captain "Halle" Gunderson. His life was the Prinsendam. He was the Captain who was in the shipyard when the ship was built for Royal Viking line. He continued to be one of the P'Dams Captains when the ship became the Seabourn Sun and still continued as the P'Dam's Captain when she became the P'Dam. He met his wife on the ship, his daughter spent much of her first few years on the ship, and he never wanted to work on any other ship. The man knew every rivet on the P'Dam and also knew the name of just about every crew member that worked under his command. And for many years he had the same Chief Engineer who knew how to keep everything working long after its normal lifespan. He once told me that when the Prinsendam was retired he would also retire. He lied :). He just could not wait that long. But with a lovely wife and daughter waiting at home in Bergen, who could blame the man for retiring.

 

 

Hank

Edited October 1, 2015 by Hlitner

[St Pete Cruiser]

I learned years ago it was safer to be in an active war zone than to critisize the Elegant Explorer in front of her loyal HAL fans! Indeed, after 35 days aboard, I too became a fan of the Prinsendam. Last year, at a future cruise presentation, and then later at an officers cocktail party, it was mentioned that due to difficulties in obtaining essential parts, the ship would probably be out of the fleet in a year or two. Now one of our CC posters, Roy, tells us maybe 5 years more! He also posts the possability of the Crystal Symphony as a suitable replacement...which would probably be wonderful for those of us who like HAL and don't want to pay the extra for Seabourne, Crystal,etc.

Also, we saw the Albatross in the Canary Islands last year, and she did look very nice despite being older (1973) and a smaller Royal Viking ship.

Therefore, I hope Roy, you are correct! I'm convinced that HAL will not build a replacement that size. Finding a premium replacement ship is the best bet.