Celebrity wants new cruisers

[kitty9]

I wonder, did the introduction of drink packages begin this slippery slope? Did revenue drop because people drank more than the price of the package? Has the devil come home to roost, so to speak, because of the 1-2-3 pricing and the new BBB fare structure? Has Celebrity realized that this marketing tool has been an epic fail in terms of revenue?

 

Cruise lines have a niche, and when a company wishes to change this niche, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible. Carnival has long been seen as a party til you drop line, but despite trying very hard to change that perception, it's still very much part and parcel of their niche. HAL has always been seen as the line for the oldsters, and HAL tried to change that perception when they built Zuiderdam and announced they wanted to actively pursue families. Try as they might, HAL is still perceived as the retiree cruise line of choice. And now we have Celebrity, apparently tired of their niche of attracting more mature adults and providing a wonderful, upscale product, so they now want the 30 to 40 year olds, all at the expense of their very loyal following. When you know that the older passenger has more time and disposable income than the 30-somethings, and add to that the fact that Celebrity is raising fares to rediculous levels, fares that 30 and 40-somethings might not be able to afford, one has to wonder what these supposed marketing geniuses are thinking? IMHO, the decline of the once great Celebrity product began with Bayley and continues with Lutoff-Perlo. These two have really dismantled what was once a wonderful cruise line and they've now turned it into a nothing particularly special cruise line. Fortunately for them, these newbies have no idea what Celebrity used to be and they will feel that this new Celebrity is great.

 

But like I said above, I think Celebrity is a victim of their own marketing, by giving away too much with their "free" perks, their loyalty program and other questionable marketing tools. So, Celebrity is trying to close the barn door, but the animals are already out in the field. A couple of people have suggested that Celebrity doesn't so much want to dump the 50+ passengers age group as much as they want to see their Elite and Elite + people leave for other cruise lines.

[wwcruisers]

I don't know if it's a "perk" or not but it is just another way of reducing the value of the dollars spent.....

 

Yes, Gracie -- and -- taking away my favorite restaurant! :cool:

[CABINET]

I wonder, did the introduction of drink packages begin this slippery slope? Did revenue drop because people drank more than the price of the package? Has the devil come home to roost, so to speak, because of the 1-2-3 pricing and the new BBB fare structure? Has Celebrity realized that this marketing tool has been an epic fail in terms of revenue?

 

Cruise lines have a niche, and when a company wishes to change this niche, it's extremely difficult, if not impossible. Carnival has long been seen as a party til you drop line, but despite trying very hard to change that perception, it's still very much part and parcel of their niche. HAL has always been seen as the line for the oldsters, and HAL tried to change that perception when they built Zuiderdam and announced they wanted to actively pursue families. Try as they might, HAL is still perceived as the retiree cruise line of choice. And now we have Celebrity, apparently tired of their niche of attracting more mature adults and providing a wonderful, upscale product, so they now want the 30 to 40 year olds, all at the expense of their very loyal following. When you know that the older passenger has more time and disposable income than the 30-somethings, and add to that the fact that Celebrity is raising fares to rediculous levels, fares that 30 and 40-somethings might not be able to afford, one has to wonder what these supposed marketing geniuses are thinking? IMHO, the decline of the once great Celebrity product began with Bayley and continues with Lutoff-Perlo. These two have really dismantled what was once a wonderful cruise line and they've now turned it into a nothing particularly special cruise line. Fortunately for them, these newbies have no idea what Celebrity used to be and they will feel that this new Celebrity is great.

 

But like I said above, I think Celebrity is a victim of their own marketing, by giving away too much with their "free" perks, their loyalty program and other questionable marketing tools. So, Celebrity is trying to close the barn door, but the animals are already out in the field. A couple of people have suggested that Celebrity doesn't so much want to dump the 50+ passengers age group as much as they want to see their Elite and Elite + people leave for other cruise lines.

 

I do agree with this entirely. Seasoned cruisers are already the people most likely to not bother with ships excursions or buy the overpriced photos, dvds or items from the shops.

 

I have said before (and been flamed for it) that offering loyal customers three free acoholic drinks means, in my experience, that many of those people have had all they want to drink and buy no further alcohol for the rest of the evening. Add in free laundry and internet minutes and there really isn't much money to be made from this group unless they splash out on an expensive suite. I imagine by far the bulk of elites/elite + are just in standard cabins since there aren't that many suites on a ship.

 

"Persuading" these pax to leave for another ship to be replaced by newbies is probably a desirable outcome.

Edited December 13, 2015 by CABINET

[Spursgirl]

I am Elite Plus and enjoyed my last cruise on Equinox very much.

 

However I am asking myself if I want to continue sailing Celebrity regularly? Maybe if the itinerary and pricing suit us. But we booked a HAL cruise a few months ago on the spur of the moment because it went to lovely ports and was priced well. We were amazed. The food, service and entertainment were as good or better than X and the speciality restaurants fairly priced.

 

We were going to book the Eclipse TA but in the end plumped for Azamara and we had a wonderful cruise.

 

So Celebrity may no longer want our business but perhaps they should be careful what they wish for.

 

We are looking seriously at Oceania for our next cruise.

[chemmo]

It used to be that new itineraries would come out and those of us who booked early received wonderful pricing and we scooped up all the prime rooms in doing so....(all the suites on spring Reflection TA 2016 were gone in a matter of days, although a couple have cancelled and now reflect the MUCH higher pricing structure)

 

 

Perhaps this is the central issue. If all the prime rooms have 'gone in days' why not next season try selling them at a higher price.....you can always reduce if they do not sell.

 

I am unconvinced that Celebrity wants to get rid of any cruisers but I am sure they want to get the most money they can for each room.

[Gracie115]

Perhaps this is the central issue. If all the prime rooms have 'gone in days' why not next season try selling them at a higher price.....you can always reduce if they do not sell.

 

I am unconvinced that Celebrity wants to get rid of any cruisers but I am sure they want to get the most money they can for each room.

 

I agree they want to maximize the amount of money they can get for each room....but I also know that "new cruisers" spend more..... more on alcohol, more on internet, more on pictures, tshirts, art, spa, jewelry, shore excursions....pretty much everything on a ship. Veteran cruisers, like ourselves, have learned the tricks to avoid these expenses....we rarely take ship's excursions...always did in the beginning, we are elite so we use our 3 coupons to offset most alcohol charges, haven't used a spa service in years except the gym, no jewelry, we know how to get OBC from a few different sources .....it is fairly easy to come off a long cruise and have minimal charges....that wasn't true when we first cruised.

 

It actually makes sense from a business standpoint to be recruiting ACTIVELY for new cruisers that WILL spend their $$ on those services and at the same time try not to alienate TOO MUCH the loyal long term X cruisers...it's a balancing act and, right now, anyway I think the balance has swung in favor of the new cruiser with these new MUCH higher fares.....we'll see if they return to some more sane levels for the rest of us as time goes by.....

[villauk]

Perhaps this is the central issue. If all the prime rooms have 'gone in days' why not next season try selling them at a higher price.....you can always reduce if they do not sell.

 

I am unconvinced that Celebrity wants to get rid of any cruisers but I am sure they want to get the most money they can for each room.

 

It's probably more about the 'balance' of cruisers: has the scale been getting heavier on the side of the past cruisers - more free perks and less onboard spending, compared to the new cruiser (spends more onboard because it's a new experience and receive no loyalty perks)? This is why the suite class has also been enhanced - same pax but more revenue from providing perceived 'added' luxuries from those same cabins. All their perks will be more than accommodated for in the price they're paying. It's similar to buying a house when the real estate agent is pushing buying the 'lifestyle' - still the same house (cabin) on the same road (ship), just dressing it for the part. Their revenue will be tipping more towards the 'new' cruisers side of the scales.

 

I agree about generating the most amount of revenue per cabin. If those cabins sold so quickly last year, they were obviously sold too cheaply. Initially, businesses will test the waters to see if they can sell those cabins at a higher price - what have they got to lose? They can always drop the pricing as the months go by. You may say it would be too late by then as some pax will have booked alternatives - again, not a problem because those pax will probably be the high receiving loyalty perk type that they'd prefer not to have so many of anyway. Full circle back to the original point: getting that 'balance' right ;).

[villauk]

I agree they want to maximize the amount of money they can get for each room....but I also know that "new cruisers" spend more..... more on alcohol, more on internet, more on pictures, tshirts, art, spa, jewelry, shore excursions....pretty much everything on a ship. Veteran cruisers, like ourselves, have learned the tricks to avoid these expenses....we rarely take ship's excursions...always did in the beginning, we are elite so we use our 3 coupons to offset most alcohol charges, haven't used a spa service in years except the gym, no jewelry, we know how to get OBC from a few different sources .....it is fairly easy to come off a long cruise and have minimal charges....that wasn't true when we first cruised.

 

It actually makes sense from a business standpoint to be recruiting ACTIVELY for new cruisers that WILL spend their $$ on those services and at the same time try not to alienate TOO MUCH the loyal long term X cruisers...it's a balancing act and, right now, anyway I think the balance has swung in favor of the new cruiser with these new MUCH higher fares.....we'll see if they return to some more sane levels for the rest of us as time goes by.....

 

Appears we were having the same thoughts at the same time :D.

[junetraveler2014]

I think that's true, but I think X is accenting more on the "new revenue sources" than being concerned about retaining current customers...especially those that get the "free perks" ie, booze, internet....

 

I am agreeing more with you. Not that our perks necessarily are gone, They have been cheapened. I never wanted any part of Carnaval (almost now X) and completely enjoyed the relaxed atmosphere, solitude of certain places on ship and the excellent menu and preparation and display of the food. These were most important to me. I was very disappointed with Luminae. Dishes were ok but atmosphere was downgraded to a bistro instead of a five star restaurant. The tables were too close, and too small. The elegance was gone. DH and I ate in Normandy or our cabin most times. We did have a wonderful dinner with the Captain, which I understand is no longer available. Our last cruise to Bermuda I found the guests to be rude, loud, obnoxious and filthy. The bathrooms by the Photo area were disgusting. Why? My DH and I are booked for a Bermuda cruise again this coming June. I don't like to judge a book by its cover, but from what I have seen already this cruise does not look promising. Will try to have an open mind...but come on not even a greeting with a rose when you book a suite. Not promising at all.:confused:

[Jade13]

I was very disappointed with Luminae. Dishes were ok but atmosphere was downgraded to a bistro instead of a five star restaurant. The tables were too close, and too small. The elegance was gone. DH and I ate in Normandy or our cabin most times.

 

 

:

 

 

Interesting because you rarely see negative comments about Luminae.

[SFL]

We are longtime RCL family cruisers. We started out on Royal Carribbean(with small kids), moved to Celebrity and tried Azamara. Went back to Celebrity and stayed there ever since. Our next cruise with them is in Jan. We started with Celebrity when they had the ad campaign we treat you like a Celebrity. ie a special feeling. Unfortunately, that is no longer the case. They treat the customer as a commodity(promise more and deliver less) and thus, I have adopted the same model . I spend my vacation dollars on itin and where I can get the most bang for my buck. So,we have gone on land excursions, river cruises, other ocean ship companies and self drive tours to alot of national parks, etc. So, that said, I have gone from a loyal to "'royal" customer/client(28 cruises) to a travel gypsy sampling the offerrings of other vacation providers. You know what, its a big ocean and world out there and beleive it or not there are other travel providers. Thanks Celebrity for pushing me out that door. That being said, I will use Celebrity again when they fit my vacation criteria . they have gone from my 1st choice to one of many to consider. To paraphrase a line from a the play/movie A Bronx Tale

Why do you care about Celebrity/ Do you think they care about you!!

Safe travels and happy Holidays to all

Edited December 13, 2015 by SFL

[4774Papa]

Several interesting posts on this thread.

 

1. X focusing on new customers. Frankly, I believe any cruise line must continually attract new customers. I don't have a problem with this, however, don't short the loyal customers.

So far, the changes for elites have been modest, like no more priority tender tickets.

 

2. Pricing changes. I dislike the new go better, best pricing which integrates benefits. Because we are elite and are not heavy drinkers, the drinks packages make no sense for us. Sure, I can do the math and determine what the true cruise fares are, and it is easy to see that prices are definitely up. Price will affect our booking another X cruise (we do have a 2017 TA booked from Southampton) in the future, since I will compare with other cruise lines. Celebrity still has great itineraries and we will not give up on them without comparing against other. In the past, I have always compared with NCL, HAL and Princess and found Celebrity is usually a bit higher than NCL, but about the same as Princess and cheaper than HAL (HAL has high prices unless you wait for last minute discounts).

 

3. Modern Luxury. As an experienced traveler, I recognize that this advertising line is only partially true. Still, we find the X product is still darn good. Food quality, service, facilities, etc are excellent. Further, as elite, we were recently offered a nice upgrade to a Sky Suite on Millennium for a good price. This tells me that X has not forgotten their loyal customers.

 

4. We do occasionally cruise on NCL if the price and itinerary are right. NCL is going through some changes and those have irritated many of their customers. Still, in the big picture, the changes have not been major. X is still our line of choice.

[Ontario Cruiser]

I completely agree with all the comments. We are Elite Plus. Our last cruise was the Reflection TA in October and doing a B2B on the Summit in January. We are trying Royal Caribbean in February on the Anthem and Jewel crossing in April. I now look for the best bang for our buck . Celebrity isn't our only choice anymore

Ontario Cruiser

[Eddie's Girl]

Also consider that as prices rise and amenities are cut the cost of fuel has dropped dramatically in the the 15 years we have been cruising.

[baldercash]

There is definitely something a foot with all the cruise lines, possibly a little bit of collusion in the pricing department as well.

 

We booked on the 1st day for the Feb 2017 Equinox Mardi Gras sailing at $2,200.00 a person for an 11 day cruise with a drink package and $150 OBC per person I thought it hefty what the heck prices will fall and we are getting an aft concierge cabin I did not even want to consider Aqua class at that price as it was just frightening.

But a one off cruise so give it a ride.

I just checked the X site and insides are $2,200.00 and verandas are at about $4,000.00 all other categories show as sold out, total madness.

 

Looking at a popular site that shows discounted cruises up to 90 days out and it now seems the norm that at a 70% discount gets an inside cabin at around $100.00USD pp a day, is this considered a deal?

These are nothing special just drudge cruises around the Caribbean and such.

 

After this Falls East coast repositioning Snow Bird cruise another high demand over priced Royal Caribbean cruise we decided to postpone any more cruises for awhile as we can land vacation for so much less and do so much more then cruising.

I pushed back a Feb 2016 B to B South American cruise on X that would have been 28 days Brazil to Chile but at $18,000.00 we can do a top drawer land tour of SA for a few months at that cost.

 

Oil the biggest cost for the cruise lines has fallen from $110.00 a barrel to $35.00 and yet they continue to cut staff, amenities, service and food quality on board while raising drink and dinning prices plus gratuities?

This is more then about getting new passengers they are totally changing the cruising matrix they are looking at doing business in a new manner and it is across all cruise lines.

 

We are now flying to Vancouver to spend Christmas with our son, then on to Hawaii in the new year for a month then home to Toronto for 4 days to reload then down to Playa Del Carmen for a month at a fraction of the cost. We will plan a detailed 2 month land assault of South America or Vietnam and Cambodia for next fall.

 

I think the cruise lines are expecting the influx of retiring baby boomers giddy with new retirement to fill these cruises as it will not be the 30 something crowd taking 16 hour flights to far flung destinations for a one or two week cruise.

 

It is a new reality and I fear they will stick to their strategy but the exchange rate on the US dollar may well scuttle their plans. There is now almost a 40% exchange surcharge for Canadians and Australians on the US dollar and the Euro is not doing well so these high fares are even more daunting.

Edited December 13, 2015 by baldercash

[woodley]

People keep posting about "free perks" but do you know nothing is really free?

When the cruise line advertises the price it has already factored in what it needs to charge to cover those "free perks", that is why they keep changing offers so you do not really know the true cost of the basic cruise without any extras.

I also think the fluctuation in foreign currency plays a part in the cost of a cruise at any given time.

I usually pick a cruise for itinerary and then have a figure in mind as to what I think the cost should be. I shop around to get the best deal but sometimes it is "swings and roundabouts". I like to think I get a bargain but also know there is probably someone else out there that did a lot better than me.

[shipshape sam]

I am going to miss the M class restaurants like US United States. I think to get that type dining in future I would have to sail in a suite to get access to Luminae.

 

I think as has been mention, all companies have to be in search of new customers, new revenue. The goal is to not lose current customers TILL you have converted new revenue streams.

 

I think Celebrity and cruise industry as a whole has a number of distinct revenue sources. One that comes to mind for me that also seems to be growing is Charters. Whether they charter the whole ship or a large block of rooms, it allows for cruise lines to hold tighter on pricing as their booking algorithms show that bookings are ahead of schedule and thus discounting is less.

 

I personally do not like BBB as it is just a packaging of perks with a higher cruise price. Is there some benefit, for sure, but I have NO doubt that they know on average, they fare better with this pricing structure.

 

Not sure that we spend less than 'new' cruisers. We do spend onboard differently than we did went first sailing. We now try speciality restaurants and they were not even on ships other than one speciality restaurant. Now there are numerous choices.

 

Cabin categories are another way of increasing revenues. Aft facing cabins used to be part of a larger category, now they are they own subcategory and get a location premium, all going to the bottom line.

 

It is frustrating to see pricing rising so much for cabin types we all have previously booked for much less, but I look at it by saying we got to sail for much less and Celebrity and US walking/talking promoters have helped to create higher demand for 'our' cabins. :)

Edited December 13, 2015 by shipshape sam

[tine-tine]

2islandhoppers, that was a great description for how Celebrity currently behaves to guests, timeshare hostages are exactly what we have become! I have become increasingly perplexed by the constant selling and loosely disguised activities that are actually a sales pitch which invade every aspect of life onboard.

 

My last cruise on Eclipse even had announcements or activites/sales during the day, an example being, we were sitting listening to the party band in the Grand Foyer one evening, there were many dancers enjoying the music when it was abruptly interrupted by the shopping staff doing an impromptu fashion show with officers and staff showing off jewellery. I could not believe they would be so rude as to spoil peoples enjoyment simply to sell their products, this was a major intrusion in the cruise but one that was replicated throughout Celebrity Today programme..

 

At one time almost the only announcement was the Captains daily broadcast followed by the cruise director but now we seem to be heading into holiday camp territory!!!!!

[Gracie115]

I think the cruise lines are expecting the influx of retiring baby boomers giddy with new retirement to fill these cruises as it will not be the 30 something crowd taking 16 hour flights to far flung destinations for a one or two week cruise.

 

It is a new reality and I fear they will stick to their strategy .

 

But I think the "retiring baby boomers(like us) are smarter than that........at least the ones that have already been cruising through the later part of our working life and know the ins and out of getting a good deal on a ship and won't be falling over themselves to pay these higher prices....especially since other alternatives as you mentioned in your post are available. We love to cruise but we aren't going to break the bank to do it.

 

We just decided last night that our "spring" trip in 2017 WON'T be a TA or any other cruise. We will tour the west/Yosemite/Vegas/Sequoia....stay in good hotels, fly in good seats, spend what we want and we will still come out way ahead of current cruise pricing. We are still looking at Alaska for that summer on a cruise because we've never been and it's a bucket list item but it's the ONLY cruise we are planning past the one we booked a year ago when the pricing was much more sane. But we've already accepted that Alaska most likely WON'T be on X based on pricing just released.

 

I guess it really is the "natural order of things" for the cruise lines to routinely find ways to bring in new higher spending customers, it's how they survive....and now by pumping those prices up from the very beginning alienating at least some of the rest of us..... they will no doubt sell some of those higher prices to new people...... now whether or not they can make them happy enough to sail a SECOND time remains to be seen...... is the product THAT good? Perhaps to those who know no different it will be....but perhaps not....depends on how discriminating they are about their travel dollars..... and whether X can deliver on their vague promise of "Modern Luxury" ..... whatever that is anyway....:eek::D

Edited December 13, 2015 by Gracie115

[lahlah57]

What is the difference between O class and R class ships for X? I think that is the classes:confused:

Which ones are preferred and what do they offer. We have cruised severl luxury lines and they are great with . Itineraries will alwas be first and we loooove sea days. What else is there to do on those sea days. Never been on mega ships but now they are looking intriguing too.

[ORV]

I believe that you are a long time Celebrity cruiser? If so, I really can't believe that you asked.

 

I've had no Elite perks cut since I attained that level. I think the definition of perk might be a little broad here. There have definitely been changes in certain offerings onboard, and activities, but I've lost no perks.

 

While I'm neither a Celebrity cheerleader or a board contrarian I think it would be to some cruisers benefit to get out and try some other cruise lines. There's an old saw about the grass always being greener on the other side, I think if more people would try other lines they'd find out that's just not true, or it cost a lot more to walk on that green grass. (oh, wait, Celebrity's the only line with real grass)

 

For years I've seen people post here how they would be willing to pay more to have the quality of food and service that Celebrity had in "the good old days", yet when Celebrity starts charging more for their product, because they can due to demand, then a lot of those folks are the first to run.

 

Human nature is funny. I find much of the logic on this thread interesting.

 

The problem is people want the product the way it used to be, but want to pay the same price they did 10 years ago.

Edited December 13, 2015 by ORV

[ORV]

What is the difference between O class and R class ships for X? I think that is the classes:confused:

Which ones are preferred and what do they offer. We have cruised severl luxury lines and they are great with . Itineraries will alwas be first and we loooove sea days. What else is there to do on those sea days. Never been on mega ships but now they are looking intriguing too.

 

It's M & S class on Celebrity. M is for Millennium and S is for Solstice.

 

You can look at the Celebrity website and learn all about the differences.

 

M is the older, smaller ships, but very nice design, actually one of my favorite size ships. They came out around 2000, hence the name

 

S is the newer ones, which came out from 2006 or so forward.

 

PS, O & R are Oceania class designations.

[luv2cruisecats]

My thought is that X will sell whatever they can with their BBB packages at the increased pricing levels that we traditional "Celebrity loyalists" are shocked to see. Then, as we get closer to departure dates (say 3 to 6 months out) their computer models will force short term sales for 3 to 7 days and then prices will jump back up. This will be repeated until they reach the occupational goals. (This is why you sometime can catch AQ even lower than Concierge for short periods.)

[TxnAquarian]

I wish Celebrity luck in whatever their ultimate goal is. We started cruising with X in 2011. Made Elite + this year. We are in our 30s, no kids, plenty of disposable income. We have always enjoyed X .... until our cruises that we've taken this year. We decided after our cruise on Solstice last month, we are going to keep the current cruise we have on Constellation next year (we already paid it in full), and then not book any more X cruises. The quality has been on a steady decline. And except for Luminae there is nothing offered for suites that wow us enough. We are happy to pay whatever a cruise line wants to charge, but not if the quality of the product is in decline. For now we are much happier with Azamara, which offers better itineraries and a much better onboard experience for the same price (or maybe slightly more) than X has been charging for suites with an increasingly inferior product. I'll be curious to see how this all plays out, but in our opinion, X doesn't have a distinct identity in mind.

 

 

Michael

[OBX-Cruisers]

We've been looking at Viking, & it seems that their Russian ships are paltry compared to their new longships that ply the European rivers. I'm finding out here on the river cruise board that the biggest problem with river cruising has been the water levels of the rivers, with many cruisers forced to be bused to different ships mid cruise, or partially subbing the cruise for bus trips. It has given us pause in deciding.

 

You and I are very similar in this pause in deciding on a Viking river boat cruise. I was about to book until I read about how Viking treated the problem by converting the boat trip into a bus tour. As some of the affected mentioned, this was the most expensive but tour they ever took.

Not for me and I am still pausing.